Terminus Zeus vs Defiance Ruckus

[mtnhunter22]

May have been covered before, and I know we’re not quite comparing apples to apples here, but anyone have experience with both of these actions and prefer one over the other?

Looking to snag one or the other and prefer the pre fit route when it comes to barrels. TIA

 

[DisplacedTexan]

It will come down to whether you want a 60° throw or not. Both are perfectly capable.

 

[Torchy]

It will come down to whether you want a 60° throw or not. Both are perfectly capable.

You have add to this, which is, do you want a heavier bolt lift or a lighter lift?

Using my trigger pull weight gauge, my defiance takes 2-2.5lbs of lift. My Vector took 8-9lbs. 400% difference.

 

[DisplacedTexan]

You have add to this, which is, do you want a heavier bolt lift or a lighter lift?

I disagree. Just felt both at my gunsmith's place; not really a discernable difference. Also, he's the one who stated that the lift is the same before I tested them.

 

[Torchy]

I disagree. Just felt both at my gunsmith's place; not really a discernable difference. Also, he's the one who stated that the lift is the same before I tested them.

IDK I have video of both not based on feels but based on a scale

 

[sleeplz]

IDK I have video of both not based on feels but based on a scale

Link to vid?

 

[mtnhunter22]

You have add to this, which is, do you want a heavier bolt lift or a lighter lift?

Using my trigger pull weight gauge, my defiance takes 2-2.5lbs of lift. My Vector took over 8-9lbs. 400% difference.

so which of the two do you prefer?

 

[littlepod]

The trigger also has some affect on the bolt lift as well. I shot a Defiance Deviant and the lift was rather light. I then shot a BigHorn Origin and the lift was as heavy as my Terminus Zeus. The Terminus is pretty heavy when I first got it, but it got lighter with shooting it / dry firing it.

If you properly lift the bolt with the thumb indexing for leverage, then I would say it makes no difference. One of my shooting partners bolt lifts by grabbing the bolt and lifting it, and he can't run my Termins Zeus, because he has no thumb leverage he is moving/canting the rifle every time he cycles.

I really appreciate the quick change barrel of the Zeus/Vector. But if you're looking at purely just prefits and torquing things down in a vise then I'd just jump straight to getting like a Lone Peak Fuzion.

 

[mtnhunter22]

The trigger also has some affect on the bolt lift as well. I shot a Defiance Deviant and the lift was rather light. I then shot a BigHorn Origin and the lift was as heavy as my Terminus Zeus. The Terminus is pretty heavy when I first got it, but it got lighter with shooting it / dry firing it.

If you properly lift the bolt with the thumb indexing for leverage, then I would say it makes no difference. One of my shooting partners bolt lifts by grabbing the bolt and lifting it, and he can't run my Termins Zeus, because he has no thumb leverage he is moving/canting the rifle every time he cycles.

I really appreciate the quick change barrel of the Zeus/Vector. But if you're looking at purely just prefits and torquing things down in a vise then I'd just jump straight to getting like a Lone Peak Fuzion.

so why the lone peak fuzion over the defiance in your opinion?

 

[Torchy]

The trigger also has some affect on the bolt lift as well. I shot a Defiance Deviant and the lift was rather light. I then shot a BigHorn Origin and the lift was as heavy as my Terminus Zeus. The Terminus is pretty heavy when I first got it, but it got lighter with shooting it / dry firing it.

If you properly lift the bolt with the thumb indexing for leverage, then I would say it makes no difference. One of my shooting partners bolt lifts by grabbing the bolt and lifting it, and he can't run my Termins Zeus, because he has no thumb leverage he is moving/canting the rifle every time he cycles.

I really appreciate the quick change barrel of the Zeus/Vector. But if you're looking at purely just prefits and torquing things down in a vise then I'd just jump straight to getting like a Lone Peak Fuzion.

True on the trigger. In my case these guns were clones and both had calvin elites in them. Also mine was pretty new (I was 150-200 cycles into the vector action) so maybe it would have lightened up more just a hair.

Really not trying to cause animosity in this thread, but idk if I can agree with using the thumb as "properly" lifting the bolt. IMO if you have to use your thumb then that's no bueno. This also might just be a personal opinion thing so I'll leave it at that.

Also, Vector/Zeus and Rukus both use prefits so why would he just jump over to a Fuzion? Does the Fuzion do something better with prefits that the other 2 don't? (not being factious)

 

[Torchy]

Link to vid?

Their on my phone. I'll upload them when I get off work.

 

[Torchy]

so which of the two do you prefer?

So I prefer a 60 degree throw over the 90. It's just about physically impossible to make a 60 as light as a 90. Ultimately I like a lighter lift over a shorter throw so I sold the Vector and have 3 Defiances now.

There's a lot of personal preference when it comes to feel and actions so you really have to play with what you like best and buy that. It does sound like you are interested in some really great options though.

Impact 737
Fuzion
Rukus
Zeus

Are some of the best out there IMO

 

[littlepod]

True on the trigger. In my case these guns were clones and both had calvin elites in them. Also mine was pretty new (I was 150-200 cycles into the vector action) so maybe it would have lightened up more just a hair.

Really not trying to cause animosity in this thread, but idk if I can agree with using the thumb as "properly" lifting the bolt. IMO if you have to use your thumb then that's no bueno. This also might just be a personal opinion thing so I'll leave it at that.

Also, Vector/Zeus and Rukus both use prefits so why would he just jump over to a Fuzion? Does the Fuzion do something better with prefits that the other 2 don't? (not being factious)

I'm not a very experienced shooter by any means, just have taken a few training classes. Shooting PRS off wobbly barricades not using the thumb technique definitely has me canting the rifle. A 60 degree definitely affects it a lot more than a 90 degree. Using the thumb technique there is no difference.

Video of Jon running his vector.




I know the defiance is incredibly light on lift. Triggers are less about the trigger itself and how the sear engages the cocking mechanism so same trigger in different actions will behave differently.

Only reason I spoke about the lone peak is that those who have had the resources to own all the fancy actions have seemed to land and stay with the lone peak. I personally have not had experience with it. I just shoot the terminus because I wanted the quick change.

 

[Tokay444]

So I prefer a 60 degree throw over the 90. It's just about physically impossible to make a 60 as light as a 90. Ultimately I like a lighter lift over a shorter throw so I sold the Vector and have 3 Defiances now.

There's a lot of personal preference when it comes to feel and actions so you really have to play with what you like best and buy that. It does sound like you are interested in some really great options though.

Impact 737
Fuzion
Rukus
Zeus

Are some of the best out there IMO

An Archimedes is as or lighter than a 90° as there is no primary extraction on bolt lift. It’s purely cocking.

 

[S3th]

so why the lone peak fuzion over the defiance in your opinion?

Lone Peak is just amazing.

 

[TwistedOneinSeven]

May have been covered before, and I know we’re not quite comparing apples to apples here, but anyone have experience with both of these actions and prefer one over the other?

Looking to snag one or the other and prefer the pre fit route when it comes to barrels. TIA

Hey mtnhuner,
I have Zeus and Tenacity (for comparison).

As others have said, it really comes down to 60 versus 90 degree bolt throw.

The machining of the Defiance is sublime, so smooth. The Zeus was very rough in comparison when just sliding bolt back n forth in action (not referring bolt lift here). Zeus has been cycled a few thou times now and way better than when new.

Ask some guys at your range to try cycling their actions. See if you like the 60deg or 90deg throw. I'm now fully hooked on the 60deg/3lug design.
Either way you can't go wrong, both are top quality and the prefit options are out there for both.
Cheers

 

[littlepod]

I just finished PR1 with lowlight in Alaska and now halfway through PR2. I've been running the Zeus and it's been fantastic. I hopped behind a defiance afterwards and I'm really used to the 60 degree throw now. We were doing timed groups, 5 shots, 15s, hit a sub moa group and had time to spare. No problem cycling on this one.

 

[DangerRanger]

An Archimedes is as or lighter than a 90° as there is no primary extraction on bolt lift. It’s purely cocking.

Don’t really understand this, in general unless you have a sticky case you’re not having to pressure your primary extraction cam anyway are you? Shouldn’t cocking force just be the only thing you are doing unless you have a clicker?

 

[Tokay444]

Don’t really understand this, in general unless you have a sticky case you’re not having to pressure your primary extraction cam anyway are you? Shouldn’t cocking force just be the only thing you are doing unless you have a clicker?

Your case always expands to to fill the chamber when fired. Whether it's discernible to your mind or not, there is always a primary extraction force added to the cocking force on a fired case, in an action where the primary extraction is cammed into the bolt open.
If you can, remove your extractor from your bolt, fire a case, then pull your bolt. See if that case falls out on its own...

 

[fili.herrera]

i have owned both the defiance and now a zeus and i prefer everything about the Zeus. bolt throw is amazing, the feel and lock up is outstanding and have had no issues whatsoever. The customer service is also amazing as well...super responsive and professional. i may sound biased but these are just my opinions.

 

[DangerRanger]

Your case always expands to to fill the chamber when fired. Whether it's discernible to your mind or not, there is always a primary extraction force added to the cocking force on a fired case, in an action where the primary extraction is cammed into the bolt open.
If you can, remove your extractor from your bolt, fire a case, then pull your bolt. See if that case falls out on its own...

Hmm ok I was under the impression that primary extraction only counted once the primary extraction cam was engaged, and that on loads not “stuck” in the chamber you were often breaking them loose during the initial bolt rotation before engaging that cam.

I guess you’re always using it even though you aren’t “using” it

Thank you for the help

 

[spife7980]

I guess you’re always using it even though you aren’t “using” it

You should be. Thats the issue with the rr prefix remingtons, they dont hardly ever hit the primary extraction cam until just at the very last bit for just a moment. These aftermarkets shouldnt ever have that issue, it should always work properly, every time.

 

[Tokay444]

Hmm ok I was under the impression that primary extraction only counted once the primary extraction cam was engaged, and that on loads not “stuck” in the chamber you were often breaking them loose during the initial bolt rotation before engaging that cam.

I guess you’re always using it even though you aren’t “using” it

Thank you for the help

If timing is correct, you're not off the lugs until you're on the extraction cam.

 

[DangerRanger]

If timing is correct, you're not off the lugs until you're on the extraction cam.

Good deal, I’m quite confident mine are correct.

back on topic, I’ve been very pleased with my tenacity and vector actions. I’m surprised by someone mentioning a zues was rough at the start. My vector was just as slick as my defiance and the DLC feeling gives it that gliding feel.

my only dislikes I ever came up with with the vector was that with the bolt removed it often how do you say this... game uncocked during travel. So I just needed to keep a cocking tool with me, or do it on the side of a bench. I think perhaps the roller bearing and designs of the notch it sits in has very little Friction, which is great for action feel, but makes it so a hard slam during travel could uncock it. Never happened in the rifle though.

my only dislike of the tenacity and this holds with the ruckus is a do not like the bolt handle. It looks... unfinished in its shape, and because it’s quite thick and straight I can’t mount a 30mm scope lower than .87” rings. After speaking with them a few months ago I see they have released various aftermarket handle designs, which I think should fix that “issue”


Im Not totally sold on 60 degree bolt throw but never had any issues with it. Just different.