New to PRS and looking into 2 specific brands of actions for a 6mm dasher build. What are the thoughts and opinions of you folks on the Terminus Zeus vs Impact Precision 737R actions? Thanks.
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Terminus Zeus Vs. Impact Precision Actions
- Thread starter SD3Gunner
- Start date
pick whichever you can get your hands on first and don't look back.
If you're looking for reliability in adverse conditions I'm not sure anyone would recommend something over the Impact in the R700 pattern family of custom actions. Though to clarify I think there are other actions AS reliable as an Impact.
Does CRF really gain anything in practical reliability though if it's still within the R700 pattern custom footprint? Unless he's going to be hunting cape buffalo with the 6 Dasher I'm not sure CRF is any benefit.
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It was just the same joke I’ve always made.
But yes, I would expect a control round feed to work better for the shorter dasher case than pushed.
But really it’s spring ejection in combination with the extractor that can allow the shorter case to rotate prematurely and release inside the action where as manual ejection won’t rotate the case out from under the extractor until the end of the bolt travel.
What does the Impact do better than LP unless he's really into trigger hangers or wants a 75 degree bolt? I went with a Fuzion instead of an Impact for my latest build because everything I read indicated they're nearly identical. With the LP allegedly having slightly nicer bolt feel.
I have all 3. The impact, fuzion and Zeus. You won’t got wrong no matter what you chose. The lone peak and impact are damn near the same. I run my impact more as for the set up i have currently but I prefer my lone peak slightly. The Zeus is a completely different feel then the other two. Some like 60 and some don’t. I like some of the features on the Zeus better than the other two actions but I don’t necessarily like it better. I slightly prefer a 90 degree just cause I run them more, but prefer the features on the Zeus. All 3 are great.
I used a Zeus SA for about 3 years and I loved it. I recently purchased another one in LA and it’s just as great. That being said it took 22 weeks for me to get that Zeus, for me it was worth the wait but might not be the same for you. I purchased my first impact with their new 75 degree bolt a few weeks ago. Those things are AVAILABLE in most places plus can probably find some on here as well. I haven’t shot the Impact much but from my first impressions its nowhere as good as my Terminus.
FANBOIS ATTAAACKkk!!!!
FANBOIS ATTAAACKkk!!!!
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Probably nothing. But there’s something to be said for using the most common action in the PRS…wether it’s the customer support, the fact that every problem you might encounter has already been solved, the total ubiquity of spare parts and extra bits and bobs at every match in case something does break, endless support from manufacturers of every accessory part, the fact that Tate himself is at a handful of matches every year ready to help. So, maybe the tenon print is the same, maybe the bolt pattern is the same, but it’s not the same and when you over pressure a load and break your firing pin, and the squad asks what action you are using, when you say Lone Peak, they are all going to be thinking, “wouldn’t have happened if you had an Impact”.
Impact is THE action for PRS for a reason. That said, I feel sure you will be very happy with any of those 3 actions.
As far as what I prefer to use because I just like running it more? That's easy, it's my Origin. I have a Zues and a few Valors and I prefer to run the Valor slightly more than my zues but I'd say the zues is "nicer". You could end up waiting a long time for a zues so buy from a vendor that has one in his hands if you go that route and I am not suggesting you shouldnt, they are very solid.
Just for shooting I'd choose my origin over the all the others because it feels better to me and I prefer a 90 and some other features mentioned
As far as what I prefer to use because I just like running it more? That's easy, it's my Origin. I have a Zues and a few Valors and I prefer to run the Valor slightly more than my zues but I'd say the zues is "nicer". You could end up waiting a long time for a zues so buy from a vendor that has one in his hands if you go that route and I am not suggesting you shouldnt, they are very solid.
Just for shooting I'd choose my origin over the all the others because it feels better to me and I prefer a 90 and some other features mentioned
Both will likely serve you well.
Zeus will be difficult to find in stock, you'll probably have to wait. Lone Peak Fuzion is a great option, personally I would take it over an Impact - but that's a personal opinion.
If you want 60-75° bolt lift, the new BAT Hammerhead action looks pretty tits. That would be my pick for an action that's less than 90°.
Zeus will be difficult to find in stock, you'll probably have to wait. Lone Peak Fuzion is a great option, personally I would take it over an Impact - but that's a personal opinion.
If you want 60-75° bolt lift, the new BAT Hammerhead action looks pretty tits. That would be my pick for an action that's less than 90°.
I've built rifles for people on every single action out there. The Zeus is at the top for me. The Fuzion left me very unimpressed as did the 737R. Nothing wrong with em, just kind of, meh.... My personal Zeus has we’ll over 20k rounds through it in some of the worst conditions imaginable, never had so much as a hiccup. 60 degree bolt throw is slick as goose shit too.
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I get the vibes based angle but can't get over the fact that almost everyone who owns both (and have posted about it) prefer the LP Fuzion. Also it was years ago but there's a thread on here where @MikeRTacOps was saying he preferred the LP over the Impacts. Not sure if that's changed in the interim time though, or why he said it in the first place but I'd love to know. I'll probably grab an Impact when I build a .223 just to try it but that's what caused me to go with the LP first.
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Mike makes a different product designed for a very different purpose than PRS. I don’t doubt he could turn any action into a rifle worthy of his price-point. I also don’t think there’s a functional difference between a 737r and a Fuzion. I have a combined 30000 rounds on three different Impacts and at this point the bolts on all of them feel like they are falling open and closed. I haven’t spent enough time with a well broken in Fuzion to compare how they feel. My criteria for an action include: 2 lug, push feed, r700 footprint, integral rail and lug (no fasteners on the lug or rail), immediate availability and customer support, and total pre-fit availability for barrels….and that’s pretty much it. I’m sure the Zuess is a fine action too and I’d own one for curiosities sake if I owned rifles to satisfy my curiosity. At this point though, I don’t and the Zuess fails on my criteria above.
Yeah. The shorter cases can be knocked free from extractor, prematurely, with a spring loaded plunger style ejector. 1 fix is decreasing the spring rate, but thats a bandaid that can cause issues the other way. Mechanical ejector are best for br based cartridges.
Ok dudes. I’m weak; gotta correct something. Sorry.
It’s Zeus.
Like the Greek god.
You know, the big cheese dood that lived upon Mount Olympus?
Not Zues. Or Zuess.
Carry on.
It’s Zeus.
Like the Greek god.
Not Zues. Or Zuess.
Carry on.
Wasn’t trying to lecture dood.
Dood is simply funnier to read. To me, anyway.
However, one meaning of “upon” is, uh, on. It’s more formal, and, oh, my butler just informed me my car is waiting…ta ta!
I have owned both. Sold the Terminus. It was a rougher action and took more force to run the bolt.
If buying new today, Impact, Lone Peak or the new ARC CDG would be my choice. And honestly, for $900, the ARC action is very hard to beat.
If buying new today, Impact, Lone Peak or the new ARC CDG would be my choice. And honestly, for $900, the ARC action is very hard to beat.
That was because Impact didn't suck his balls and he cried about it like a little baby. It had nothing to do with the quality of the action.
Impact still makes up more actions than all others combined for registered shooters.
There are guys who like every action out there for different reasons. Only real way to know is to get out and try them all.
I’ve only ran 1 CDG, but at its price point it’s amazing. The only thing I didn’t like was of the 3 at the last match I RO’d they were the only action ejecting forward of the firing line in tall grass and losing majority of the brass.
Well, Zuess is funnier to read to me. Especially when I’m up on my high whores about how much better Impacts are than any three lug action.
Here’s the rule that I was taught at my liberal indoctrination camp:
If you can remove the "up" and use only "on," then feel free to use "on" or "upon" as a preposition. But if you can't remove the "up" (or the "on"), then you need to use the phrase "up on."
So, I guess technically, you aren’t wrong. It just sounds odd.
Lol this whole paragraph pretty funny man! High whores < snort giggle >
Just imagine the line delivered with a posh British accent…I do and it’s fun.
In all fairness, registered PRS shooters make up a very, very small percentage of shooters.
There are far more people that play dungeons and dragons at a competitive level than there is PRS shooters.
The fact that Impact makes up a large percentage of actions in PRS is almost meaningless.
Define shooters. Registered shooters by and by shoot way more rounds than non competitors.
So while they may be a smaller percentage of shooters...they are shooting the majority of actual rounds downrange.
The people putting the most rounds down range choose impact and it's not even close.
I've used a Terminus Zeus, Falkor 7even, LP Fuzion and Impact 737. I would rank them in that order. I like the extra clearance the 60° throw gives me between the bolt knob and the scope. The bolt lift is slightly higher, but that's how physics works.
LP Fuzion and Falkor were very similar with a slight edge to the 7even in the smoothness category. The 7even also seemed to be less sloppy than the Fuzion, especially with the bolt release design. The biggest differences I had between these would be the bolt throws- Zeus is 60° 100% cock on open, LP and Falkor were 90° 100% cock on open and Impact is a 90° 50/50 cock on open/close (unless you get the new 75° throw). You shouldn't have to overcome any force when closing a bolt, because you should already be on your target ready to rock. The Impact "hitch" on close pissed me off when I was running it.
It is going to be splitting hairs when picking an action. A lot of them are just really nice Remington 700s. Everybody with modern machines can build an action that holds tight tolerances. Thus, everyone can make an action that can use prefit barrels. Define the features you'd like to see in your action, then tailor your search to those requirements.
Zeus- 60 throw, threaded trigger pins, quick change barrel system
Falkor/LP Fuzion- really nice R700 clones, not much "new technology"
Impact- Trigger hanger, 50/50 cocking
LP Fuzion and Falkor were very similar with a slight edge to the 7even in the smoothness category. The 7even also seemed to be less sloppy than the Fuzion, especially with the bolt release design. The biggest differences I had between these would be the bolt throws- Zeus is 60° 100% cock on open, LP and Falkor were 90° 100% cock on open and Impact is a 90° 50/50 cock on open/close (unless you get the new 75° throw). You shouldn't have to overcome any force when closing a bolt, because you should already be on your target ready to rock. The Impact "hitch" on close pissed me off when I was running it.
It is going to be splitting hairs when picking an action. A lot of them are just really nice Remington 700s. Everybody with modern machines can build an action that holds tight tolerances. Thus, everyone can make an action that can use prefit barrels. Define the features you'd like to see in your action, then tailor your search to those requirements.
Zeus- 60 throw, threaded trigger pins, quick change barrel system
Falkor/LP Fuzion- really nice R700 clones, not much "new technology"
Impact- Trigger hanger, 50/50 cocking
The Impact isn't anything special. It's another push feed R700 in a sea of push feed R700's.
It's popularity in PRS has more to do with the cliquish nature and follow the herd mentality of PRS more so than anything else.
Don't get me wrong, it's not that I don't think they are great actions nor would I ever fault someone for buying one.
But there also isn't any major reason to choose Impact over LP, Kelbly, Zermatt, ARC, BAT, Defiance and a plethora of other action makers. A bunch of jersey shooters using them certainly is not a strong argument, unless you want to just be part of the PRS herd.
That's kinda not true.
The impact is the successor to the Surgeon 591, which dominated before it. You had places like GAP that also pushed defiance since they would private label an action for you but Surgeon was the GOLD standard for hard use actions. Impact has alot of similar features, you could almost call it a evolution of that action.
Actions like defiance at the time were so tight, once they got dust/dirt in them, they would bind up. You also had the issue with trigger timing, which the hangers solved so you no longer needed a gunsmith to time the trigger to the action. Also none of them were pre-fit capable. It wasn't until many years after other guys were doing it and taking market share, they started releasing prefit action. And their legacy actions are still not prefit capable. For comparison, Surgeons from 15-20 years ago are technically prefit capable, thats how well consistent they were machined.
Kelbly has been around forever, and no one cares about them. BAT makes good actions but are super tight (they came out with a PRS type action recently. I shot a match with a guy that had the non integral rail and it was loose as shit which was funny)
ARC has made a bunch of shitty actions before finally getting it right with the CDG. The mausingfield was a cool design but its not really for PRS type shooting. The nucleus was a turd so 5 times a charm.
Yes you can run any action, including a remington 700, savage, howa or what the fuck ever.
In a sport where guns are run hard and fast, out in the elements with dust, dirt, mud, snow and rain getting in the action; Impact dominates the field and its not even close. It has nothing to do with cliques and everything to do with them working. They just work, all the time. I have had tikkas and a nuke bind up shooting dusty matches but the impact doesn't give a fuck.... it just keeps running.
You can win with anything but for people who spend their own money, they overwhelmingly pick that action. I am sure other actions will take market share over time, but today that is why there are so many impacts and why people like them. They just work. You can abuse the shit out of them and they just keep going.
Back in the Surgeon days of dominance, it was pretty clear that their reputation was well deserved with how much better they handled adverse conditions over the rest of the pack.
Today? Pretty much all of the action manufacturers have figured it out. I don't think the Defiances of today are having binding issues like they did 10+ years ago. LP Fuzions eat up debris. My Mausingfield is amazing in shit conditions. Lots of other actions do it well too.
Kelbly has been making prefit actions since the 90's. A lot of actions are prefit capable, but to your point, Impact popularized this feature with the PRS crowd.
ARC has certainly had some teething issues, but that's because Ted is seemingly the only action maker that's trying to do something even moderately different than the rest of the crowd. He's come out with some real winners - the Mausingfield is my favorite action and has worked perfectly in PRS matches. Other actions have been a bit of a miss - I also am not a huge fan of the Nucleus, though haven't spent a lot of time behind one.
Personally, I don't see anything special about the Impact. They executed well on the 787, which as you state is an evolution of an already great action - the Surgeon 591. But I'm not sure I would pick an Impact over a variety of other actions, which are every bit as capable in excelling in a PRS match as an Impact.
You said the impact isn't anything special. Over the last 10 years or so, I explained why it dominated and still dominates today. I also said its likely other actions will take more market share over time, as the competition has caught up. But they aren't doing anything new that is better than impact, the way impact did it better than everyone and propelled them forward. The opinion of the majority of match shooters still seem to think they are either the best or equal to the best.
There was a lot of hype around the release of the Impact. At the time of its release, Impact wasn't really doing anything that really set itself apart from the competition in a tangible sense, but aligning with certain members of the PRS crowd helped to sky rocket it's popularity.
It's one of many well executed push feed R700s, and a nice update on the Surgeon 591. But it wasn't ground breaking or a step change in any real meaningful way. Lone Peak Fuzion came out around a similar time as the Impact, with very similar features. And similar/same features as a long line of actions that preceded them.
I'm not convinced that the people winning with Impacts would have any less success if they shot a Kelbly Prometheus, LP Fuzion, ARC CDG, BAT TR, Defiance Deviant, Surgeon 591 or a host of other actions.
I was in this same boat. I chose the Zeus QC. I found it in stock at Altus. Purchased on a Monday, shipped Tuesday and I had it in hand Friday of the same week.
I chose the Zeus for 2 reasons. I had used an AI, arc nucleus, and the impact. I liked the 60 degree throw alot of the ai but not the rifle itself and I may be the odd man out here but I just haven’t found the impacts I have used to be that amazing after hearing people online rave about them. Pretty much everyone I know and shoot with has one.
I also like the QC feature quite a bit. I remove my barrel for each cleaning and I’m able to get it very clean plus changing barrels when I need a new one is simple and I don’t need extra tools.
So I will be getting another one eventually for another rifle build. I don’t think either is a wrong choice. Pick one and run it. Altus gets the Zeus in quite regularly and so does front range precision. Just sign up for in stock notifications.
I chose the Zeus for 2 reasons. I had used an AI, arc nucleus, and the impact. I liked the 60 degree throw alot of the ai but not the rifle itself and I may be the odd man out here but I just haven’t found the impacts I have used to be that amazing after hearing people online rave about them. Pretty much everyone I know and shoot with has one.
I also like the QC feature quite a bit. I remove my barrel for each cleaning and I’m able to get it very clean plus changing barrels when I need a new one is simple and I don’t need extra tools.
So I will be getting another one eventually for another rifle build. I don’t think either is a wrong choice. Pick one and run it. Altus gets the Zeus in quite regularly and so does front range precision. Just sign up for in stock notifications.
It really is the Indian and not the arrow….but some people are way to dense to ever understand that concept
I mean Kahl Harmon won the PRS overall with a Terminus Zeus so that kind of blows the whole Impact supremacy thing up anyway.
Top 10 Placing by action: (source: https://precisionrifleblog.com/2024/04/05/best-custom-rifle-action-what-the-pros-use/)
1: Terminus Zeus
2: LP Fuzion
3: LP Fuzion
4: Impact
5: Impact
6: Impact
7: LP Fuzion
8: Impact
9: Impact
10: Defiance
I'm not saying the non-Impact actions caused those guys to do better but it didn't seem to hold them back. If their actions were going down frequently in adverse conditions my guess is they wouldn't make top 10 overall.
Totally.
To DBDs point, you need to use tools that are fit for purpose to be successful, at least to any high level.
But there are plenty of actions these days that excel for PRS type shooting.
Gonna need a bit of clarification on this. My nuke 2.0, and most other 2.0 are damn solid and smooth running. In fact, if you take away the jersey shooter dudes that can't handle more than 2# bolt lift that kept putting in too light fp spring as a crutch, the 1.1 nuke was just fine also. I've used my nuke in the field and in winter conditions that would turn most people away and it did just fine.
I wish the Zeus had a 6 o’clock-ish bolt lug for better AW shenanigans. I don’t think it does. Don’t have a Zeus, but I’ve read it’s not ideal for easy AW mag use. Def correct me if I’m dead wrong.
Of course the Impact doesn’t have such a lug there either…
Of course the Impact doesn’t have such a lug there either…
Pretty much no action does, besides the AI actions.
The only current aftermarket action that I'm aware of that's actually designed for use specifically with AW mags in mind is the ARC CDG, though I'm a bit ignorant as to the lug positions. The GAP Tempest actions were also designed for use with AW mags, though that action never really caught on. And I believe the Badger M2013 as well.
Other actions are designed to be compatible with AW mags, but there's a huge difference between something being made compatible and something being made optimal for use with a specific mag pattern.
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Works just fine with AW. It’s the same if you ran an impact with AW’s. Mess with the mag catch and feed lips a little bit. It’s not a CDG. But it works just fine and I wouldn’t say it’s not ideal.
For general knowledge, the CDG thread usually just mentions a 6 o’clock lug position but to illustrate here’s a pic I scraped from this post in that thread. Couldn’t find a better pic in the time I had to search.
If anyone has a better CDG one (like the Solus lug pic linked above), set it free!
You double negative SOB you lol
