Terrified of squib loads

[Elitespotter]

I was going to post this in pistols but figured Id post here instead since it applies to semi-rifles and full autos (and possibly even bolt action if your're not paying attention to what your doing)

I have always been conscious of shooting fast with a semi pistol incase of a squib load. Especially those cheap bulk boxes with 500 rounds of 22lrs you can buy.

So I was watching a few vids on youtube of people getting squibs with their pistols and some of those vids really give me the hee-bee-gee-bees.

I know you would hear the difference in sound if you get a squib, but I can just imagine shooting so fast the by the time you would register the last shot didnt sound right the trigger would be breaking to let the follow up shot go.

I dunno. Am I the only person that worries about this?

 

[EddieNFL]

Anything is possible, but I've never seen a squib cycle the action far enough to chamber the next round. If a shooter manually chambers the next round on top of a squib...well, let's just say Darwin comes to mind.

 

[sharac]

It happened to me with muroms causing problems with lee pro1000 (tough to seat automatically because sp are a bit oversize for 9mm cases) and there was apparently a miss in loading so either no charge or very little was thrown (didn't load myself -> something i now don't practice any longer). Long story short i was doing fast shooting and on one shot slide didn't close properly, trying to see what caused it (thought it was a stovepipe or something) i've discovered (to my horror) the round woulnd't chamber completely because there was bullet stuck just a tad into rifling. Didn't notice weak bang, basically if bullet went couple of mms further i'd simply experience a big bang and a Darwin moment i guess.

I think the important lesson is that you do your own loading try to make a routine and several checks while loading to make sure you've got quality, defect free product and thats it. I think quality firearms will handle overpressures in such a way that if you use common sense protection (glasses, gloves) you really have to be unlucky to get seriously hurt so i'd say risk is totally acceptable...

 

[EddieNFL]

I think the important lesson is that you do your own loading try to make a routine and several checks while loading to make sure you've got quality, defect free product and thats it.

Amen! I've heard guys say they use different devices to prevent squib loads and there is nothing wrong with using them. The problem is some rely solely on these gadgets. A huge mistake, IMO.

I think quality firearms will handle overpressures in such a way that if you use common sense protection (glasses, gloves) you really have to be unlucky to get seriously hurt so i'd say risk is totally acceptable...

I've seen a couple of the better built 1911s survive a round fired behind a squib without externally visible damage. I've never felt a need to proof test mine so I look for a charge in every case.

 

[pawprint2]

There was a guy on this board that posted he had a primer only fire, the bullet never left the case, and when they pulled the bullet you could hear a hissing sound! That is the first time I have ever heard of a primer firing, and not having enough force to shove the bullet out of the case and into the the lands/forcing cone etc. I'm not calling BS, but that is the first time I've ever heard of such a thing. Has anyone else ever seen or heard of this happening? And would you consider this a true Squib load, or is it a new type of malfunction?

 

[EddieNFL]

I've seen it a couple of times with crimped 5.56 rounds. You could tell the primer fired because the bullet base was smoked. In one instance the shooter admitted he found checking for a charge a "PITA." He has since changed his mind.

 

[Downzero]

I had a squib go halfway down the barrel and fired another round behind it. New barrel + bushing and I am back in business. The damage could have been a lot worse, but if you reload enough, eventually you'll load a squib or two. Factory ammo has them sometimes as well, so just make sure that you're keeping an eye on what you're doing and try not to worry about it too much.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

I was going to post this in pistols but figured Id post here instead since it applies to semi-rifles and full autos (and possibly even bolt action if your're not paying attention to what your doing)

I have always been conscious of shooting fast with a semi pistol incase of a squib load. Especially those cheap bulk boxes with 500 rounds of 22lrs you can buy.

So I was watching a few vids on youtube of people getting squibs with their pistols and some of those vids really give me the hee-bee-gee-bees.

I know you would hear the difference in sound if you get a squib, but I can just imagine shooting so fast the by the time you would register the last shot didnt sound right the trigger would be breaking to let the follow up shot go.

I dunno. Am I the only person that worries about this?

So you have been watching videos on youtube and now you are scared of your firearm? Sounds reasonable to me. Maybe reloading and/or firearms are things you just aren't cut out for.
Ahh the internet....bon jour.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

There was a guy on this board that posted he had a primer only fire, the bullet never left the case, and when they pulled the bullet you could hear a hissing sound! That is the first time I have ever heard of a primer firing, and not having enough force to shove the bullet out of the case and into the the lands/forcing cone etc. I'm not calling BS, but that is the first time I've ever heard of such a thing. Has anyone else ever seen or heard of this happening? And would you consider this a true Squib load, or is it a new type of malfunction?

I'm not saying this didn't happen, and I'm not saying that you're wrong. What I actually AM saying is that I'd like to know some more details of this story, before tending to believe it.

I have had a squib load, in my .357mag revolver. My mistake, I was new at reloading, and was a teenager. (long ago, just after they invented 'color') The bullet (158gr SWC) lodged halfway down the barrel, and I had to use the club 'slide-hammer' to clear it out. No damage, except to my pride.

That has been the one and only squib I've loaded, and pray my stats continue as such.

For a 'primer' to fire and not dislodge the bullet from the brass, there would have to be a hell of a crimp on it, and/or one heck of a sealant between the bullet and the brass. But then there is also the primer, and why it wasn't backed out of the primer pocket.

Sure, anything's possible,,, but um,,, wow. I'd sure like to learn more details. Proper primers in proper condition actually do create one hell of a lot of pressure. And yes, I know of this because I had a .22 lr burst its chamber due to an overprimed cartridge during a recall that I wasn't aware of. That was one heck of an experience. The bullet wasn't just 'super-sonic', but it was 'super-duper-sonic' and attracted a number of other shooters that were at the range at that time. I've told this story previous.

 

[EddieNFL]

But then there is also the primer, and why it wasn't backed out of the primer pocket.

In the instances I mentioned both primers backed out. Can't imagine the primer wouldn't back out on any (no charge) squib.

 

[aagifford]

A friend loaded 1 in a 9mm, it was stuck such that a second round didn't chamber properly. I could see how if this were crimped slightly tighter that it might not leave the case at all.

A close family member loaded 50+ in 1 batch, more probably around 100 or so. He forgot to hook up the chain on a lee loader and didn't drop any powder. This was with 45 auto. Inexplicably, he fixed the chain, and kept loading into the same bucket, or dumped the new rounds into the old (I'm not sure...) Regardless, they were well mixed. Anyway, 500 total rounds with 50+ rounds in the mix as known squibs. I would have pulled them all, he decided to shoot them out. So, here, we have a bunch of squibs and get to see the variation... I saw maybe 30 squibs in this exercise in extremely dangerous stubborness...

Bang, bang, click, dammit! Disassemble, pound out bullet, reassemble.
click, dammit! Disassemble, pound out bullet, reassemble.
and so on.
He eventually gave up and disassembled the approx remaining 150 of the batch.

I have to admit, I wanted to see what a squib looked and felt like, so I tried his gun out until I hit one, and then one more a while later. It is like dry firing, except sometimes a little smoke comes out around the inside of the slide and breech face area.

But anyway, back to the results, which I found interesting. Let's call the number I saw 30, I think this is how many I saw...
Most, about 23 out of 30, got stuck 1/3 to 3/4 of the way down, and another round could be chambered if the operator racked the slide.
A couple got stuck really close to exiting, or even had the bullet tip exposed.
A few, maybe 5 or so, launched out with only primer force, and landed between 5 and 15 feet away Like taking an easy pebble toss at a can 10 feet away. They didn't make any noticable noise.
None would have prevented another round from being chambered. I theorize that perhaps a large pistol primer has more power than a small pistol primer, or perhaps the larger base area of the larger 45 bullets lets it accelerate faster from the primer pressure, but I don't really know.

In all cases, the gun went click, but no noticable other action happened, except in the case of the few that made it out on their own. So, having seen a bunch of squibs, they are easy to detect. Whenever a click and no bang, immediately stop and take a good look at what happened before proceeding. Remove the mag, carefully eject the round and examine it, and if no bullet in the cartridge, examine the bore. I could see a revolver being cycled through a squib faster and more easily than a semi-auto, since all one need to is squeeze the trigger again.

 

[Tempest 455]

I've had 3 all w/ factory ammo. In every case it sounded very different and I was paying attention and did not fire again until I checked.

 

[EddieNFL]

Bang, bang, click, dammit! Disassemble, pound out bullet, reassemble.
click, dammit! Disassemble, pound out bullet, reassemble.
and so on.

What was it Einstein said about insanity?

 

[aagifford]

What was it Einstein said about insanity?

I know I know! Expecting a different result.

It was entertaining! Especially when there were 4 Clicks in a row, each with a disassemble in between.

 

[rero360]

I've had one myself, .45 thru my 1911, when I first starting reloading I reloaded up 1k of ammo. Sadly (just in that I don't shoot enough) I still have some left, but I think it was within the first 500 rounds I encountered the squib. Was shooting and the squib was very noticeably different feel and sound to it, managed to send the round about halfway down the barrel. No big deal, I stopped, disassembled the gun and pounded the bullet out and then kept shooting.

 

[50calibercruiser]

I forgot to charge a .50 BMG one time. Primer only got it about 3 inches down the barrel. Of course, I immediately noticed something was right. It did prove that I don't flinch. The sucky part was the round was an incendiary, the good blue tipped one. So it was beat the bullet the rest of the way to the muzzle or beat on the front of the bullet for 3 inches and hope to not set off the W.P.. I got a wooden dowel and bounced it off the front, it came right out, but I was still pretty puckered up.

 

[EddieNFL]

Been awhile, but I don't recall running across .50 Cal Willie Pete. Have you fired any of these rounds? How long did they burn? WP is nasty stuff.

 

[50calibercruiser]

I may be wrong. I was always under the impression the incendiary was white phosphorus.

 

[wfjames22]

I was doing some load development in my 300WM, squeezed the trigger on the second round of a particular group and what happened seemed like a dry fire. Since I was running from the mag, I assumed that the round had not been picked up by the bolt but much to my dismay an unfired looking round was ejected when I cycled the bolt. I picked it up and noticed that the primer appeared fired. After having an "oh shit" moment, wondering if I was about to have a 300WM round go off in my hand by way of some sort of long ass hang fire, I put it back in my ammo box and kept shooting. Chalked it up to a dud primer at the time.

When I got back home, I pulled the bullet and there was nothing in the case but the back of the bullet was black. Apparently I had not dropped any powder in that particular case. I was running .003" neck tension with no crimp but for whatever reason the bullet didn't move in the case. I guess the 300WM case was big enough to handle whatever pressure the primer produced without pushing the bullet out of the case.

 

[InsidetheStorm]

 

[timjoebobbradley]

He eventually gave up and disassembled the approx remaining 150 of the batch.

What is wrong with using a scale to check weights? with an electronic scale you should be able to find any non powder loads quickly and painlessly.

 

[sharac]

What is wrong with using a scale to check weights? with an electronic scale you should be able to find any non powder loads quickly and painlessly.

You know the thing about Einstein? No insult intended but this is funny

 

[Elitespotter]

I've had one myself, .45 thru my 1911, when I first starting reloading I reloaded up 1k of ammo. Sadly (just in that I don't shoot enough) I still have some left, but I think it was within the first 500 rounds I encountered the squib. Was shooting and the squib was very noticeably different feel and sound to it, managed to send the round about halfway down the barrel. No big deal, I stopped, disassembled the gun and pounded the bullet out and then kept shooting.

Thats what Im talking about. Imagine that happening whilst doing this

 

[Brenneman]

I forgot to charge a .50 BMG one time. Primer only got it about 3 inches down the barrel. Of course, I immediately noticed something was right. It did prove that I don't flinch. The sucky part was the round was an incendiary, the good blue tipped one. So it was beat the bullet the rest of the way to the muzzle or beat on the front of the bullet for 3 inches and hope to not set off the W.P.. I got a wooden dowel and bounced it off the front, it came right out, but I was still pretty puckered up.

This kind of reminded me of a story my Dad would tell. He was on a 105 Howitzer in Vietnam and were on a fire mission when he loaded the gun his thumb slid just over the rim of the case pinching it and also jamming the case. They had to take the rod and pound the round out from the muzzle! Mind you they dont arm until fired but still scary Im sure!

 

[vwhugger]

I had that happen to me one time while firing an FN-FNC. Luckily for me the bullet lodged close enough to the chamber that the next round would not fully chamber. I couldn't figure out what happened at first as I didn't notice any change in report or recoil.

 

[Mike_Honcho]

I shoot a little IPSC and IDPA now and again and I have had a few squibs throughout the years. Believe it or don't the more you shoot the more in tune you are with the way things feel and sound. It seems like it always happens during a series of control pairs and I have always known the millisecond it happened. I have spoken to several others that are dialed in, they all report the same thing - the brain registers 'squib' instantaneously. The bigger deal is making sure you have a dowel in your bag. Otherwise your done for the day.

 

[aagifford]

What is wrong with using a scale to check weights? with an electronic scale you should be able to find any non powder loads quickly and painlessly.

You know the thing about Einstein? No insult intended but this is funny

He tried measuring them with a scale, and couldn't tell them apart because of mixed brand cases. You couldn't shake them and feel it either. I think he was using titegroup. I have a suspicion if he sorted them out by headstamp he could have weighed them out, but I don't know because I wasn't gonna do it for him, he's plenty smart most of the time, and really stubborn sometimes.

 

[EddieNFL]

I may be wrong. I was always under the impression the incendiary was white phosphorus.

IIRC incendiary rounds use a barium aluminum mixture.