Texas man hits 1 MOA target at 2.07 miles

D

distancebusters

Private
Minuteman
Apr 30, 2014
2
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#1
RATON, NM -- Billy Carter, a native of Spring, Texas, hit a 1 MOA target from a distance of 2.07 miles at the NRA Whittington U Long Distance Range last week. Carter improved the accuracy of his 2013 record, shooting a CheyTac USA M200 Intervention® chambered in .375 CheyTac topped with a Vortex Razor HD Gen1 scope.

"Every time you pull a trigger on a gun, you get more accurate with it," Carter said. "This time I hope we've polished off some of the myth surrounding last year's shot. I really don't think anything is impossible at this point."

Carter, who grew up in Houston, began working at an early age on his family’s gun range. Carter's Country, now a 50 year staple in the shooting sports community, services an average 5,000 shooters monthly and performs thousands of sight-ins just before hunting season every year.

"I'm not a military trained marksman and definitely not an expert," Carter relates, "but I have had 40 or more years pulling triggers on all kinds of guns. I've learned to get a feel for each gun and its trigger, which aides in the ability to shoot long distance accurately."

In early 2012 Carter, along with friends Jim Elmore, Bruce Mansur, and Gerald Guzman took their rifle-shooting hobby to a new level at the McMillan long range facility in Arizona. The group first felt the thrill of long distance shooting when they attended the NRA Wittington U Extreme Long Range program the following year.

Sights set on the longest distance possible, Carter dug into what had already been done in long range shooting. The answer being: not much. He partnered with CheyTac USA, LLC., and happened upon a gun and a caliber that could go the distance.

Developed to overcome the shortcomings of .50 caliber rifles, CheyTac USA chambered their M200 Intervention® in a necked-down .408 round called .375 CheyTac. “It shoots further, hits harder and is far more accurate than the .50 caliber,” said Dave McCutcheon, President of CheyTac USA.

Though never tested at such extreme distances, the .375 CheyTac’s velocity at shorter distances had Carter and McCutcheon confident the 350 grain .375 CheyTac USA Balanced Flight Projectile® would perform. Perform it did! April 2013 saw Carter hit the never before offered 4 MOA target at 2.07 miles.

One year later, flying into a snow-covered Raton, New Mexico, the team was less than enthusiastic about their chances at reengaging the 2.07 mile target.

Carter took three guns to Whittington U’s Long Distance Range: Two CheyTac USA M200 Intervention® rifles, the .375 CheyTac from 2013 and a new .408 CheyTac.

The third was a McMillan TAC416 in .416 Barrett. Using techniques gained from NRA Instructor Jon Weiler and his previous experience, Carter stepped the .408 CheyTac and the McMillan TAC416 up to the coveted 2.07 miles.

Carter warmed up at 500 yards Sunday. The following Monday he shot targets up to 1200 yards, and 2500 yards Tuesday. Finally, on Wednesday the team set up to engage 3650 yard targets – 2.07 miles.

Confirming hits on the 4 MOA target, Carter called for the 1 MOA target. With a string of eight shots and over 175 MOA in elevation and +2 MOA windage, Carter dialed in the .375 CheyTac and connected twice with the 3 ft x 3 ft steel plate. Velocity on impact was 1100 ft/s, signaling that not only accuracy was possible at long distance but also effectiveness.

“These engagements by Billy are stepping stones into the future,” McCutcheon said. “He continues to propel CheyTac USA forward. Some very near changes in both firearms technology in new ammunition changes will allow Billy to shoot more accurately at even longer distances.”
 
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#3
Seems some of the numbers posted are way off. 1100fps is closer at 2400yds not 3600yds at 3000yds its 995fps and that is using 3100fps as a perameter. You would have to propel the bullet at 4500fps to get close to super sonic at 2 miles.

I only say this, please post accurate numbers not to confuse others.
 
#4
distancebusters said:
RATON, NM -- Billy Carter, a native of Spring, Texas, hit a 1 MOA target from a distance of 2.07 miles at the NRA Whittington U Long Distance Range last week. Carter improved the accuracy of his 2013 record, shooting a CheyTac USA M200 Intervention® chambered in .375 CheyTac topped with a Vortex Razor HD Gen1 scope.

"Every time you pull a trigger on a gun, you get more accurate with it," Carter said. "This time I hope we've polished off some of the myth surrounding last year's shot. I really don't think anything is impossible at this point."

Carter, who grew up in Houston, began working at an early age on his family’s gun range. Carter's Country, now a 50 year staple in the shooting sports community, services an average 5,000 shooters monthly and performs thousands of sight-ins just before hunting season every year.

"I'm not a military trained marksman and definitely not an expert," Carter relates, "but I have had 40 or more years pulling triggers on all kinds of guns. I've learned to get a feel for each gun and its trigger, which aides in the ability to shoot long distance accurately."

In early 2012 Carter, along with friends Jim Elmore, Bruce Mansur, and Gerald Guzman took their rifle-shooting hobby to a new level at the McMillan long range facility in Arizona. The group first felt the thrill of long distance shooting when they attended the NRA Wittington U Extreme Long Range program the following year.

Sights set on the longest distance possible, Carter dug into what had already been done in long range shooting. The answer being: not much. He partnered with CheyTac USA, LLC., and happened upon a gun and a caliber that could go the distance.

Developed to overcome the shortcomings of .50 caliber rifles, CheyTac USA chambered their M200 Intervention® in a necked-down .408 round called .375 CheyTac. “It shoots further, hits harder and is far more accurate than the .50 caliber,” said Dave McCutcheon, President of CheyTac USA.

Though never tested at such extreme distances, the .375 CheyTac’s velocity at shorter distances had Carter and McCutcheon confident the 350 grain .375 CheyTac USA Balanced Flight Projectile® would perform. Perform it did! April 2013 saw Carter hit the never before offered 4 MOA target at 2.07 miles.

One year later, flying into a snow-covered Raton, New Mexico, the team was less than enthusiastic about their chances at reengaging the 2.07 mile target.

Carter took three guns to Whittington U’s Long Distance Range: Two CheyTac USA M200 Intervention® rifles, the .375 CheyTac from 2013 and a new .408 CheyTac.

The third was a McMillan TAC416 in .416 Barrett. Using techniques gained from NRA Instructor Jon Weiler and his previous experience, Carter stepped the .408 CheyTac and the McMillan TAC416 up to the coveted 2.07 miles.

Carter warmed up at 500 yards Sunday. The following Monday he shot targets up to 1200 yards, and 2500 yards Tuesday. Finally, on Wednesday the team set up to engage 3650 yard targets – 2.07 miles.

Confirming hits on the 4 MOA target, Carter called for the 1 MOA target. With a string of eight shots and over 175 MOA in elevation and +2 MOA windage, Carter dialed in the .375 CheyTac and connected twice with the 3 ft x 3 ft steel plate. Velocity on impact was 1100 ft/s, signaling that not only accuracy was possible at long distance but also effectiveness.

“These engagements by Billy are stepping stones into the future,” McCutcheon said. “He continues to propel CheyTac USA forward. Some very near changes in both firearms technology in new ammunition changes will allow Billy to shoot more accurately at even longer distances.”
Click to expand...

So you just joined the Hide yesterday and this is your second post. Welcome.

Do you work for Cheytac? Your post appears to be a press release, no?Just sayin'
 
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#10
Snipers Hide is about first-round hits at minute of man targets, right, not 12th round hits at 4 MOA targets, and then 3rd round hits at at a 1 MOA target next door.

Separate issue is that the OP seems to be a shill......

....main issue is that with enough rounds down range who fucking cares?
 
#11
Shill or not, 12th round or 24th, still kind of cool from a shooting, tech advancement side of things. To be able to reach out and touch a 3 ft plate at 2 miles is kind of cool. There are those of us who participate in the hide that don't shoot minute of man targets--at least hope not, ever. Certainly would if ever forced, but I shoot for fun, for sport, and for groceries. Happy there are those protecting us that have to shoot at other men, I'm just not one of them, and don't think you have to be to be into extended long range.

Regardless, Carters is a cool shop, although I haven't been in there in years. Always a wide selection of very nice arms, some that you would not see in most shops. No ties whatsoever--to the shooter, Cheytac, the shooting center, hell, no ties to anyone or thing mentioned above. I did search the first intro line to see if a news post popped, no such luck. So could be a self promotion, who knows, regardless, no reason for me to call BS--interesting read.

If you search, you do get a hit for this video: don't sadd.it!
 
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#13
It's a good thing the steel can't move after the first misses. I've hit P.D.'s at 400yds.( not first round) but, I don't tell everyone 'cause I didn't do it in one shot. Since this is so obvious an advertisement, why is it still here?
 
#15
Congrats Billy,

I don't understand the negative comments on here. Most shooters do not have the equipment or range to make a 3650yd shot and probably would have a hard time hitting a 3x3 plate at one mile let alone two miles, but get on here and act like they could pull it off on a first round cold bore. The variables at 3650 yards are insane and to hit the less then 1 moa plate at 3650 two out of eight shots is very impressive in my book!!.

As this being an advertisement? who cares? Cheytac is a Hide sponsor and Carter a hide member, they have every right to be proud and I hope they chime in.

Engaging targets past 2 miles with 375 to 416 calibers is fairly new business and we all could learn something from it.
 
#16
Wyfox said:
Congrats Billy,

I don't understand the negative comments on here. Most shooters do not have the equipment or range to make a 3650yd shot and probably would have a hard time hitting a 3x3 plate at one mile let alone two miles, but get on here and act like they could pull it off on a first round cold bore. The variables at 3650 yards are insane and to hit the less then 1 moa plate at 3650 two out of eight shots is very impressive in my book!!.

As this being an advertisement? who cares? Cheytac is a Hide sponsor and Carter a hide member, they have every right to be proud and I hope they chime in.

Engaging targets past 2 miles with 375 to 416 calibers is fairly new business and we all could learn something from it.
Click to expand...

+1

The variables that come into play at 2 miles must be insane. Psyops and I have been shooting at a mile lately. What the wind is doing at the shooting position, at various points down the range, and at the target are all different. And just because you hit the target with a shot, doesn't mean the next will hit, even using the same dope. The wind is not only pushing the bullet side to side, but also vertically.

Shooting at a mile is challenging. Shooting at 2 must be insane.

Its good to see people pushing the limits. There was a time 600 yards was a long shot, then 1000. Now some folks are getting some consistency at a mile. Someday folks will be making 2 mile shots more often. These guys are leading the way, and I find it interesting to hear their results.
 
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#17
I'm also a bit curious why so many are so quick to call BS or want to discount the OP just because it wasn't "One shot, one kill". If you would like to see the videos of the shots, stop over at the Cheytac website.

https://cheytac.com/

Disclaimer: Not only am I not associated in any way, shape or form with either Cheytac or the OP, I'm also nowhere near being capable of such a shot myself.

Personally, I'm impressed. I promise that I will be equally impressed when I see all the naysayers posting their cold bore single shot hits at 2 miles, probably even more so.

I only recently had the opportunity to shoot at 1200 yds for the first time with my .260 and was very happy that I could hit a 2' x 3' steel target at that range. First shot and a total of 4 out of eight. Impressive? Hell no. But for me it was a milestone and gave me a new challenge for improvement. But I guess that I can see how all you guys that can hit 1 MOA targets at 2 miles regularly are unimpressed by the OPs post.
 
#18
I don't think anyone is saying that they could or could not make this shot. I think most everyone on here also understands most of the variable that would have to be considered to make a shot like this.

It is impressive that they were able to hit a target at that range but it makes it a little more unimpressive that they took so many shots to get there. Yes this is a huge accomplishment that we have rifles that can reach this far. I think it would have sounded better though if they made a first or second round hit on a 2 to 4 moa target insted of launching bullets at such a small target till they hit it. The article also says nothing about how many shot were taken at the 4 MOA target to get it dialed in. I mean if you took 100 shots at the 4 moa and had it dialed in a close as you could get it then missed 8 times on the 1 moa target that really dosen't sound that cool (it still impressive to me but it isn't what they said) The last thing which I have no idea about since I am not going to run any numbers is the velocities do sound kind of funny but maybe they are correct.

I am not saying its bull or its not, I am just saying I can see where people are coming from. If you are going to brag about somthing you did because you are proud of it then tell all the details, not just the ones that sound impressive because you know the other details will make you story sound less impressive. Be proud of what you did, not what you want people to think you did. I would brag about this too if I had made a shot like this.

I mean I braged about the first time I hit a target at 1000yds and every yardge I have gotten to past that.
 
#21
distancebusters said:
RATON,

Carter warmed up at 500 yards Sunday. The following Monday he shot targets up to 1200 yards, and 2500 yards Tuesday. Finally, on Wednesday the team set up to engage 3650 yard targets – 2.07 miles.

Confirming hits on the 4 MOA target was Frank Galli, of Snipers Hide, Carter called for the 1 MOA target. With a string of eight shots and over 175 MOA in elevation and +2 MOA windage, Carter dialed in the .375 CheyTac and connected twice with the 3 ft x 3 ft steel plate, with little Frankie jumping for joy. Velocity on impact was 1100 ft/s, signaling that not only accuracy was possible at long distance but also effectiveness.
Click to expand...

Wonder if my editing job in the op would have resulted in a more favorable response?
 
#22
Some numbers from my 375CT at that distance. That's a lot of mils. If I dialed the scope down to where I could actually have enough holds in my reticle, with my turret maxed out, it is very unlikely I would still be able to see a 1moa sized target.

375CT_3650yds.jpg
 
#24
orkan said:
Some numbers from my 375CT at that distance. That's a lot of mils. If I dialed the scope down to where I could actually have enough holds in my reticle, with my turret maxed out, it is very unlikely I would still be able to see a 1moa sized target.

375CT_3650yds.jpg
Click to expand...

And thats why I'm questioning it. Says he used a 5-20x Razor Gen 1 scope to make those hits.
 
#26
Whittington is between 6,300 and 8100 feet in elevation. Does that make a big change in numbers, including terminal velocity?

orkan said:
Some numbers from my 375CT at that distance. That's a lot of mils. If I dialed the scope down to where I could actually have enough holds in my reticle, with my turret maxed out, it is very unlikely I would still be able to see a 1moa sized target.

375CT_3650yds.jpg
Click to expand...
 
#31
This is interesting in the same way as 100 yard benchrest is interesting. I don't think there is anything of practical value to be noted, but it is a pursuit that some find worthwhile. It's possible that some technology may trickle into the practical area at some point, and if so, we'll be grateful for the effort.
 
#32
I apologize for my attitude toward the OP. I read the forums to get help/learn. I felt the OP wrote an advertisement. Yes, I can not even think of trying such a shot. That does not take away the accomplishment.
I'm sorry for my words unbecoming.
 
#33
Congratulations Billy! That is a helluva shot and good shooting. Not easy by any stretch of the imagination.

To the doubters/haters here, spend the time and money that he has, along with the dedication, before we throw numbers up that it can't be done. It can and he has done it.
 
#35
sandwarrior said:
before we throw numbers up that it can't be done. It can and he has done it.
Click to expand...
I hope that wasn't aimed at me. My post was simply to demonstrate just how far away it is, even with 375CT. As I said, I don't even have the equipment to attempt it. Another 40moa under my current 40moa mount, would get me started. As CoryT mentioned however, I don't find it at all practical, so I won't be changing my rifle setup to try. That's why I posted that firing solution... as most people don't even realize just how much elevation you need to make the trip.

It's quite certainly possible, and I have no reason to not believe it happened, but it is quite obviously not practical. Not as most of us see practical anyway. If I don't have a reasonable expectation of a first round hit, then I don't see it as practical. Even 2000yds is tough with 375CT most days in South Dakota. It blows hard here, almost every day.

I still would like a normal or avg station pressure from Raton though, out of my own curiosity. I'd like to see just how much easier my kit would push the distance up high like that.
 
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#36
orkan said:
I hope that wasn't aimed at me. My post was simply to demonstrate just how far away it is, even with 375CT. As I said, I don't even have the equipment to attempt it. Another 40moa under my current 40moa mount, would get me started. As CoryT mentioned however, I don't find it at all practical, so I won't be changing my rifle setup to try. That's why I posted that firing solution... as most people don't even realize just how much elevation you need to make the trip.

It's quite certainly possible, and I have no reason to not believe it happened, but it is quite obviously not practical. Not as most of us see practical anyway. If I don't have a reasonable expectation of a first round hit, then I don't see it as practical. Even 2000yds is tough with 375CT most days in South Dakota. It blows hard here, almost every day.

I still would like a normal or avg station pressure from Raton though, out of my own curiosity. I'd like to see just how much easier my kit would push the distance up high like that.
Click to expand...

It's not aimed at you individually. It is directed at those who throw up numbers that it' nigh unto impossible to get done. I will disagree about it's practicality. Case in point were both cases of setting the longest sniper kill being made by Rob Furlong and then CoH Harrison. In both cases it was important to take and make, if at all possible, shots at ranges we can't personally wrap our own minds around. Furlong knew the gun being carried by his target could have wreaked hell on those he intended to use it on. And Harrison had half his unit pinned down with wounded. In both cases taking the shots, while not easily figured, were entirely practical.

that said, I will agree that the amount of practice spent has a practicality all it's own. Practicing, yes. Spending more than 10% of your ammo allotment reaching out as far as you can with a low probability hit kind of explains it's own limitations. As the discussion raged in the previous cases I mentioned, other cases came up where short range/quick follow-up shots are necessary and increasing hit percentages within normal shooting distances is every bit as important.
What I'm saying here is yes, uber-long range has a practicality, but not to let it overwhelm your entire training curriculum. Spend the time, do the study. But, don't neglect all the other important skill aspects you need to keep up on.
 
#37
orkan said:
Can someone give me a normal station pressure for raton? I can run those numbers quick.

I know that it would be different there, I was just posting that in saying that there is no real way I could make a shot like that with my kit in my AO.
Click to expand...

Orkan,

They are at 8100 feet, so the Station Pressure is about 22.15

Update: The range varies in elevation from 6500 to 8100 feet, so Station Pressure will vary, but 22.15 should get you in the ballpark.
 
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#39
Congratulations all the way around and thanks for posting about this. When I was a kid in the 1960's shooting 1,000 yards and hitting something was an amazing accomplishment. I would like to know what they factored in for the Coriolis effect on this shot.
 
#40
sandwarrior said:
I will agree that the amount of practice spent has a practicality all it's own. Practicing, yes. Spending more than 10% of your ammo allotment reaching out as far as you can with a low probability hit kind of explains it's own limitations. As the discussion raged in the previous cases I mentioned, other cases came up where short range/quick follow-up shots are necessary and increasing hit percentages within normal shooting distances is every bit as important.
What I'm saying here is yes, uber-long range has a practicality, but not to let it overwhelm your entire training curriculum. Spend the time, do the study. But, don't neglect all the other important skill aspects you need to keep up on.
Click to expand...
I have hits out past 3000yds, but I don't care how much I practice... there will simply be too many wind variables and terrain variables to do this consistently. Anyone that's spent a fair amount of time at ELR distances knows this. In the above solution I presented, at 3650yds a 1mph wind variance will change the wind call half a mil. Half a mil at that distance is 65.7 inches.

I don't know anyone that can read wind to a resolution of less than 1mph across 3650yds. We can talk about this academically all we want, but its real world application and practicality will not change unless we have a more accurate way of collecting wind data along the bullets flight path. I've seen wind come from 2-3 different directions across 1500yds. Across 3650yds, it is far more than twice as hard to call the wind.

Thanks for the pressure Abq-Defense. Changing the station pressure to 22.15 changes things drastically, as I expected. As you can see, the velocity at 3650 bumps up right close to 1100fps. Makes me wish I lived somewhere higher! lol

7HboEyf.jpg
 
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#41
I think we differ in our definition of practical. While one can take shots at distances far beyond the norm, like Furlong and Harrison for example, that does not make the shots 'practical'. These are shots taken out of either desperation, with no other alternative available, or because conditions allowed for a shot with no real bad outcomes as a result of missing. Practical to me means a routine, reasonably repeatable standard, not a .05% first round probability, 12 sighters and then still not connecting on the first round on the smaller target.

Don't get me wrong, it's still an impressive display of what can be done, but I fail to see any real world applications.
 
#42
I just took some numbers from my .375CT and with my MV of 3173 with the 352gr MTAC's and a generous summertime DA of 9000' (here in S.E. Idaho) I am getting a velocity of 1001.1FPS at 3650 yards. I drop sub-sonic at 2950. I think the number from the OP are a little off but I dont think its outside the realm of possibility.
 
#44
poison123 said:
And thats why I'm questioning it. Says he used a 5-20x Razor Gen 1 scope to make those hits.
Click to expand...



Just curious what your getting at

The Razor has 36 mils of vertical adjustment, combined with a high moa rail and using the hash marks in combination with the elevation abilities, the Razor should preform well.



Cheers
 
#46
I think what soured up this thread was the 1100 fps at 3650 yards being questionable.
I am glad to see folks pushing the envelope and doing what folks say can't be done, especially if the level of accuracy surfaces and can be repeatable. This goes all the way back to when the 300, 600, 1000 and 1760 barrier have been broken and brought to the table as an every day accurate and accepted shot.

This summer when everything comes together with my 375 VM2, I am going to push the distance farther yet as well, the 338LM and 260 have served me well and yes we have pushed the distance far and to the limits of each with great accuracy.



Cheers
 
#47
oneshot.onehit said:
Just curious what your getting at

The Razor has 36 mils of vertical adjustment, combined with a high moa rail and using the hash marks in combination with the elevation abilities, the Razor should preform well.



Cheers
Click to expand...

That razor has 125moa total adjustment. The reticle further has 35 moa marked....with the bottom lines adding another 5-10moa.

So a possible of 170moa total adjustment with holdover....and thats with it at the very very bottom of the reticle. And it said he required 175moa of adjustment.

Maybe he had one of those adjustable bases...don't know. But also think...what power did he have to be dialed out to to get all of that adjustment.

Harrison did the 2707y shot at 8x power I think. People recreated it and its possible...but you can barely make out the target. Add another 900 yards to that.....

If he really did make the hits...it was luck. Shit in one of the interviews with Furlong I'm pretty sure they asked him if he thought he could make the shot again, and he said "I'd like to think so....but it was luck that it connected".

Throw enough shit out there and its bound to connect eventually. I wouldn't brag about it till he could connect regularly with 1st, 2nd or 3rd round hits.
 
#48
Rockfish Dave said:
Thread from last year:

http://www.snipershide.com/[email protected]
Click to expand...

This thread was the first Cheytac promotional thread, with the 12'x12' (4 MOA) target hit after a number of sighters. Now, this "achievement" has been dusted off or repeated, this time with a 1 MOA target just beside the 4 MOA target, hit after a number of sighters.

Earlier in this thread I suggested that this Community is about first round hits on man-sized targets, so I just don't see why so many are impressed with this so-called "achievement" - a hit on a smaller target after a number of sighters on a much bigger target. As CoryT noted, as a practical matter it is not interesting.

FWIW, I own and shoot an EDM .408CT, and have some experience trying to shoot at ths range, and it is hard for sure to make first round hits beyond 2500m, let alone 3000m+; but to me, this is what I strive to do, as I think most on here would strive to do as well, if they had the kit.
 
#49
That's good shooting. Maverick Stroud recently made 3670 on a 1 MOA target up at Chafee along with a group of folks helping including George Gardner If I recall correctly. .338 Norma Mag. Now this month he's heading up to Wyoming to go much longer. I love reading up on these guys who push it to the limit.
 
#50
CoryT said:
I think we differ in our definition of practical. While one can take shots at distances far beyond the norm, like Furlong and Harrison for example, that does not make the shots 'practical'. These are shots taken out of either desperation, with no other alternative available, or because conditions allowed for a shot with no real bad outcomes as a result of missing. Practical to me means a routine, reasonably repeatable standard, not a .05% first round probability, 12 sighters and then still not connecting on the first round on the smaller target.

Don't get me wrong, it's still an impressive display of what can be done, but I fail to see any real world applications.
Click to expand...
Agreed on all counts.

Sadly, most of this talk is entirely academic for most people. I have an experiment for those of you that would disagree with CoryT and myself. Set an IPSC target out at 3000yds. Then just look at it through your rifle scope. Then come back and report just how "practical" it is to even have a suitable target presentation for the shot, much less be able to put rounds on it.
 
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