The “un-winnable war”

JR_77

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  • Apr 24, 2014
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    Not surprised by this story at all but reinforces my confirmation bias that this agency should be added to the list of other alphabets needing to be defunded.

    “The disgraced former narcotics agent met with The Associated Press for a series of interviews before he headed to prison this week, revealing that he wasn't going down for this alone, accusing some long-trusted DEA colleagues of joining him in skimming millions of dollars from drug money laundering stings to fund a decade's worth of luxury overseas travel, fine dining, top seats at sporting events and frat house-style debauchery.

    According to Irizarry, dozens of other federal agents, prosecutors, informants, and in some cases cartel smugglers themselves were all in on the three-continent joyride known as 'Team America' that chose cities for money laundering pick-ups mostly for party purposes or to coincide with Real Madrid soccer or Rafael Nadal tennis matches.

    They partied in VIP rooms of Caribbean strip joints, Amsterdam's red-light district, and aboard a Colombianp yacht that launched with plenty of booze and more than a dozen prostitutes.

    'We had free access to do whatever we wanted,' Irizarry said. 'We would generate money pick-ups in places we wanted to go. And once we got there it was about drinking and girls.'

    All this revelry was rooted, Irizarry said, in a crushing realization among DEA agents around the world that there's nothing they can do to make a dent in the drug war anyway.

    Only nominal concern was given to actually building cases or stemming a record flow of illegal cocaine and opioids into the United States that has driven more than 100,000 drug overdose deaths a year.

    'You can't win an unwinnable war,' he said. 'The drug war is a game. ... It was a very fun game that we were playing.'
     
    Chapo Isidro, the last of the old guard of the Beltran Leyva Cartel still free, has been shown through the Guacamaya leaks to be caught and released 4x by SEDENA(Mex Army):



    Bread and circuses and all that...

    Some of yall may remember General Cienfuegos..?

     
    They could win that war with the stroke of a pen. Legalize all of it, make it pharmaceutically pure available at the Walgreen's.

    All that would happen is the Cartel's would shudder, kill off a bunch of each other, then get into other crime.
     
    Well I’m glad it’s developed into a friendship instead of feds just using mules to smuggle arms to the cartels- kinda dirty and impersonal . Glad they can unwind together. The feds must be stressed with all that civil asset forfeiture and pulling down houses with tanks cause an ex wife said there’s a pot plant in the closet! Why let Ukraine and FTX have all the stolen money laundering fun!
    Back the Blue!
     
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    Actuallt pretty simple. Strategic air strikes on Cartel leaders and manufacturing centers. I actually did a projected analysis about 20 years ago while working for an NGO. We came to the conclusion that with proper interdiction we could stop close to 85% off the manufacturing and distribution from foreign countries. Of course, now that China is facilitating the flow into the US it makes it more difficult.
     
    Actuallt pretty simple. Strategic air strikes on Cartel leaders and manufacturing centers. I actually did a projected analysis about 20 years ago while working for an NGO. We came to the conclusion that with proper interdiction we could stop close to 85% off the manufacturing and distribution from foreign countries. Of course, now that China is facilitating the flow into the US it makes it more difficult.

    Attacking an agricultural product does not sound like a sustainable winning strategy.
     
    well the billions spent on the "war on drugs" has been a huge success,right? cops/feds get a free ride to violate whatever civil rights they want by "protecting" us from drugs. and,who cares? you take the bad things and you die? so what? all this shit worked with alcohol,right? gets deep into personal responsibility for your own behavior and how you raise your children if you have any. alcohol is still the biggest killer and biggest scource of chemical/societal problems. yet it is encouraged in many venues. booze is fine if you can control your use. it's still THE gateway drug,not MJ or anything else.
     
    Actuallt pretty simple. Strategic air strikes on Cartel leaders and manufacturing centers. I actually did a projected analysis about 20 years ago while working for an NGO. We came to the conclusion that with proper interdiction we could stop close to 85% off the manufacturing and distribution from foreign countries. Of course, now that China is facilitating the flow into the US it makes it more difficult.

    I love the smell of napalm in the morning!!
    Both of these posts, would have ended the cartels decades ago (or, they would have moved on to something else as was mentioned). The "War On Drugs" thing, has been a money maker for .govs around the world. Especially, ours.
    Mac
     
    Both of these posts, would have ended the cartels decades ago (or, they would have moved on to something else as was mentioned). The "War On Drugs" thing, has been a money maker for .govs around the world. Especially, ours.
    Mac
    IDK if banging it out with them militarily would accomplish much. Felipe Calderon tried launching the full weight of the Mex .mil against the cartels starting in about 2006-ish. All that resulted was years of misery and high body counts.
    But if we're determined to keep filling jails on victimless crime.. I wonder if a Plan: Colombia style action couldn't turn Mexico into a true 1st-world country..? SEMAR(Mex Marines) is currently the only .mil/police unit that can be trusted to carry out a "big fish" capture mission without it leaking to the intended target. Municipal Police, State Police, many feds, and the Army almost all across the country cannot be trusted due to cartel ties.
    Guacamaya leaks recently revealed the Army has been hacking the phones of journalists and then giving the info to cartels for the journo's to get killed...
     
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    They could win that war with the stroke of a pen. Legalize all of it, make it pharmaceutically pure available at the Walgreen's.

    All that would happen is the Cartel's would shudder, kill off a bunch of each other, then get into other crime.
    Yep and spend a tenth of what the failed war cost on education and rehab. The only reason drugs are illegal is so the .gov can profit of it.
     
    The easiest way to win it, legalize all of it, and control it just like alcohol. How do gangs compete against Bayer or Pfizer?
    When it's legal it will be made to exacting standards, and not cut with whatever's on hand.

    Without prohibition, Al Capone would have likely died an unknown dock worker.

    Legalization would also fix lots of the border problem. The cartels are the ones running several governments down there. With legalization their income stream dries up.
     
    IDK if banging it out with them militarily would accomplish much. Felipe Calderon tried launching the full weight of the Mex .mil against the cartels starting in about 2006-ish. All that resulted was years of misery and high body counts.
    But if we're determined to keep filling jails on victimless crime.. I wonder if a Plan: Colombia style action couldn't turn Mexico into a true 1st-world country..? SEMAR(Mex Marines) is currently the only .mil/police unit that can be trusted to carry out a "big fish" capture mission without it leaking to the intended target. Municipal Police, State Police, many feds, and the Army almost all across the country cannot be trusted due to cartel ties.
    Guacamaya leaks recently revealed the Army has been hacking the phones of journalists and then giving the info to cartels for the journo's to get killed...
    I know it can get pretty complicated, but, with all the money we pumped into the mexican .gov coffers, we should of been owed a few Napalm runs, once the pot, coca, popi's, got matured, then burn the F'n shit to the ground. Then, keep burning it to the ground. WE don't have to go and..., but, by taking care of the product, it will take care of itself. This war on drugs shit, has been a scharade for F'n decades. I know we had air superiority back then. We had Black-ops shit back then. Now, we've sold our best shit to the F'n mexican's (thanks osamer/holder), and we are at F'n war at our southern border. We had our chance and we've lost. Mac
     
    If you have to ask you don't know me that well. Unfortunately, what I posted is pretty much mainstream Republican policy for the past 35 years.
    you're right I don't know you well

    I'm of the mind that that since the 'war on drugs' has been going on for how long and hasn't done squat to stop drugs flowing into the country, maybe we should find another strategy. I'm not sure I approve of full legalization of everything, but de stigmatizing the drugs may be a good first step.

    M
     
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    you're right I don't know you well

    I'm of the mind that that since the 'war on drugs' has been going on for how long and hasn't done squat to stop drugs flowing into the country, maybe we should find another strategy. I'm not sure I approve of full legalization of everything, but de stigmatizing the drugs may be a good first step.

    M
    The Harrison Narcotics Tax Act went into effect in 1915 for coca leaves (cocaine) and opium derivatives.
    Yet even after 100 years of full regulation, we still had an opioid crisis.
    They can't even keep drugs out of maximum security prisons, where strip and body cavity searches are allowed.

    Fwiw-This is a good argument if an anti-gunner asks how regulation wouldn't be effective.
     
    I think we could win the war on drugs if we just jailed more users and seized more private assets. We'd need to increase taxes and violate some civil liberties in the process, but it's worth it even if we only save one life.
    And the children. Won’t you think of the children?
     
    The Harrison Narcotics Tax Act went into effect in 1915 for coca leaves (cocaine) and opium derivatives.
    Yet even after 100 years of full regulation, we still had an opioid crisis.
    They can't even keep drugs out of maximum security prisons, where strip and body cavity searches are allowed.

    Fwiw-This is a good argument if an anti-gunner asks how regulation wouldn't be effective.
    How about that one-and-only company that has an exemption to this law?
     
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    To break a market, you have to either get rid of the supply or get rid of the demand. I say start spiking the drug supply with lethal doses of cyanide or fentanyl and watch the demand dwindle off. We would be rid of a lot of unproductive people that don't contribute a damn thing to society.
    They did that to booze during prohibition. It didn't reduce demand.
     
    Says the guy who's going to prison for being a complete pos and committing untold crimes. If we actually wanted to stop drugs from coming in this country we'd be doing things VERY differently.
    They will never win the war on drugs, because they don’t want to. if that war was won there is no reason for their existence
     
    You wonder why the border will never be secured? Because it is being taken as seriously as the war on drugs. And because it is integral to the cash flow that the drugs produce. And because it allows for the profits of trafficking people I suspect. And because it pushes dem voters into the voting roles, which will assist the uniparty keeping power.

    What did I miss? The border war is so intricately involved in other illegal profiteering that there is no real reason to shut it down, same as drugs. It’s almost the opposite side of the same coin they are so intertwined.
     
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    We had our chance and we've lost. Mac
    Honestly.. I ain't sure we ever had a chance. In that its a war that was never meant to be "won". Just legalize the stuff.

    Barring that happening however.. a "war on corruption" in the Mexican .gov authorities could potentially at least stem the tide of violence and secure the border:
    Adapting certain parts of this^^ to Mx could go a long way. It turned Colombia's police from a completely corrupt institution into a actual trusted, coveted profession.
     
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    To break a market, you have to either get rid of the supply or get rid of the demand. I say start spiking the drug supply with lethal doses of cyanide or fentanyl and watch the demand dwindle off. We would be rid of a lot of unproductive people that don't contribute a damn thing to society.

    So you want to murder people because you don't like their personal choices?

    I guess if you are all fine with that, what about when the anti gunners decide to go spike all your range ammo to reduce the demand of shooting sports?

    Not so fun and glib when folks want to murder you for doing what you choose to do is it?
     
    Here’s the thing with hating on the users: yes, they made a choice in the past that resulted in addiction and they need to own that. But - How many here have tried repeatedly to stop nicotine? How hard was it? How many stopped drinking? How many have failed at both? Addiction recovery is a real struggle. Exploiting that struggle and providing drugs to ensure there is no victory over it is where the outrage should be focused. We recently went through a series of lawsuits about Vicodin being handed out like Pez refills and no one was blaming those who became addicted, but found the family making the shit to be the scoundrels, along with those that prescribed and distributed it. There is no difference.

    If you are making, selling or distributing YOU are the ones who need to go away for a long time.
     
    To break a market, you have to either get rid of the supply or get rid of the demand. I say start spiking the drug supply with lethal doses of cyanide or fentanyl and watch the demand dwindle off. We would be rid of a lot of unproductive people that don't contribute a damn thing to society.
    The cia isn’t going to poison their biggest money maker(drugs and/or unproductive stupid people)
     
    You can go back thousands of years and find alcohol and various mood / mind altering drugs being used since before the dawn of recorded history, it probably helps that both of those often help ensure more sexual activity.

    Much like when the Religious Zealots waged a war on sex, sexuality and acceptance of the body we were created in.
    Not a problem for thousands of years, but OMG the worst thing ever if your children or others ever see a human body not hidden.

    Much like when Religious Zealots in this country waged war on alcohol and in doing so set the stage for the federal government to destroy the freedoms we used to have.

    Then the same Do Gooders raged this "war on drugs" and all that came out was the near total destruction of civil rights and freedom, massive power for the government and the decline of civilization.

    Ask yourself, how much of a problem actually were drugs before this "war on drugs" B.S.?
    Because more than 60 years of tossing civil liberties on the bonfire and turning the government and police into storm troopers and it sure seems like things are way worse.

    Part of the issue I think might be the removal of natural feedback mechanisms to regulate behaviour.
    Back at the dawn of civilization, after a hard day of trying to survive, if you went back to your hovel and enjoyed some fermented brew or kicked back with some mushrooms or plants or smoked some leaves, who cares, do what you want.

    But come the next day, if you don't get back to work, you are on the road to starvation and death, so it was self regulating, people learned to enjoy their recreation activities without overdoing it, because if you over did it you wound up not in the gene pool anymore.

    In addition since it was no big deal, people grew up learning culturally how to enjoy things in moderation.
    There were always those that over did it, especially once societies got big enough they could beg or live off handouts from others, but those were always used as examples to warn your kids about don't end up like that wino on the street corner.

    If you look at the way society is going, despite the kicking and screaming of the "morally superior" types, the country has gotten fed up with the farce that is the war on drugs and every election more states start dismantling their drug laws.

    Banning drugs will end up the same way that banning sex, banning alcohol, banning, music & dancing wound up.
    Eventually it becomes normal and gets managed as part of normal business and commerce and culture.

    If you are supposedly on the front lines of "fighting the war on drugs" and the president 2 presidents ago was openly proud of doing cheech and chong amounts of weed and dustbustering cocaine every time he could get some.
    Then the current administration is practically run by folks doing drugs openly or with their families doing drugs openly.
    You have to ask yourself, if you are honest, if you are intelligent, you might come to suspect you are nothing but window dressing and being used for secondary purposes of getting revenue and control and you're never supposed to actually "fix" the drug issue.
     
    The cia isn’t going to poison their biggest money maker(drugs and/or unproductive stupid people)
    Cia=cocaine import agency. Has any else ever realized the drug problem in this country perfectly coincides with where our military is
    1960-75 psychedelics(mk ultra) &herion from Vietnam
    1975-92 coke .gov all over south america
    92-01 peace= designer lab made drugs
    Late 90s pharma gets half the country hooked on pain meds
    01 we invade the producer of 70% of the worlds opium shortly after pain meds get cut off by docs across the country.
    The taliban was supposedly cutting opium production until we arrived. Not sure if thats true but ive heard it plenty of places. Ive known a lot of people who have struggled with addiction. Its not what people think. Its sad and some are savable.
     
    Also society and laws dont help recovery. A addict has enough problems alone paying for a habit isnt easy. Lets throw in drug testing for employment. That limits his earning or possibly employment status. Then throw in a felony just becuase he was in possession of a substance. Now how are his opportunities looking. If hes hooked on something that makes him sick if he doesnt have it boom now you have a criminal. And all this might have started over a injury at work and the doctor giving him a prescription. Im not a close the jails kinda guy but have a little compassion. Most junkies are suffering and dont know how to fix it. You think they have 20k for rehab like Hollywood or your favorite artist.
     
    So you want to murder people because you don't like their personal choices?

    I guess if you are all fine with that, what about when the anti gunners decide to go spike all your range ammo to reduce the demand of shooting sports?

    Not so fun and glib when folks want to murder you for doing what you choose to do is it?
    Stupid life choices have consequences. Inevitably, a lot of stupid life choices end up digging into the wallets of those that make better life decisions for themselves. We don't need laws to outlaw stupid life choices, but natural selection needs to function unimpeded.

    As far as range ammo goes, I load my own.