The bad back and the prone position

[Commodog]

Just started precision shooting and I am looking forward to having the chance to shoot in a competition one day. Right now I am shooting from the bench but I have been told that some competitions require you to shoot from the prone. I recently had back surgery and getting into the prone position has been a bit of a struggle. I am able to do it with a small pillow under my waist area, but I do not know if that would be allowed in a competition. Any feedback on how to address this would be great. Thanks in advance.

 

[earthtrekker1775]

Just started precision shooting and I am looking forward to having the chance to shoot in a competition one day. Right now I am shooting from the bench but I have been told that some competitions require you to shoot from the prone. I recently had back surgery and getting into the prone position has been a bit of a struggle. I am able to do it with a small pillow under my waist area, but I do not know if that would be allowed in a competition. Any feedback on how to address this would be great. Thanks in advance.

Most competitions (prs style) nowadays seem to allow an assortment of pillows (bags) for a number of positions. A pillow for you abdomen to assist you in getting prone should be fine especially if you explain to the RO or MD first. The time constraints for stages may be a challenge for assuming the position but if you rig the pad cummerbund style so you don't hane to fiddle with it that may save seconds.

However, if it hasn't been at least 6 months since your surgery you might just check with your surgeon and physical therapist first as you may just need more time healing. I would be more concerned with running on uneven terrain holding a 20lb rifle in front of you putting strain on your back and core. But, there are many variations of the theme when it comes to long range precision comps. Don't let your back discourage you!

Also, I am not a professional prs shooter and my advice is guaranteed for every dollar you paid for it. Good luck and welcome!

 

[ma smith]

+1 to everything above. MDs are pretty good about accomodation for specific injury. Also, check with your Doc. Make sure you are ready to go 100%.

Once you get that sorted, I would start PT for your back tailored to the mobilty requirements of your chosen sport. As above poster noted, the format often contains multiple physical challenges, and you want to be 100% good tgo go, beyond the prone stuff. You will have more fun and it wiill be safer that way.

Keep in mind there is being fit in general and their is your specific injury. The injury can be worked around, if you are fit in general.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

I've been where you are. Figuring out and working into a match-usable prone is a process, not an event. My $0.02:

• As has been advised above, check with your docs to make sure you're adequately healed, PT'ed, etc.
• You'll need to experiment with different prone positions and support points. I have a LOT of age-related osteoarthritis in my neck which severely limits range of motion (ROM). So, early on, I found that setting my bipod very high and using a large pillow bag to support my chest was effective in reducing the amount of neck ROM i needed. This pushed the toe of the rifle chassis quite high off the ground, and I found I could support it on the corner of the pillow bag under my chest.
• You will find that, over time and with practice and experimentation, your spine's flexibility will improve. My neck is an arthritic wreck, but I can do things now that were unthinkable when I started this PRS silliness five-plus years ago. I still cannot come close to achieving the positions a younger person would assume without effort, but I'm vastly better than at first (with that said - I still can't stay "in the gun" for more than 2-3 minutes without a lot of pain and incipient hand numbness).
• You don't mention what surgery was done or for what reason. For lumbar, I would think that will heal and your flexibility will increase with PT and effort. The lumbar spine doesn't have to do much in the prone once the position is achieved...

Bottom lines:

• Get on a carpeted floor with your rifle and an assortment of support "bags" and start experimenting. I used a small backpack stuffed with a varying number of hand towels to see what would and wouldn't work.
• Your first goal is to find a position which is stable (and pain-free!) that allows you do keep your reticle rock-solid on a "target" level with your position. As you gain experience, you'll learn to eyeball the relative level of the target with your prone position so you know where to set your bipod height.
• Once you find something that works, practice getting into that position as quickly and smoothly as possible. For me, that meant setting rifle and bag in position, drop down on the bag, mount the rifle with toe of stock supported by the corner of the bag, and get on target.
• In PRS, efficiently transitioning into and across positions is a vital skill. PRACTICE TRANSITIONING using the timer on your phone to get used to the time pressure. For ideas on a practice framework, look under the downloads section of the NRL22 website for the courses of fire for current and previous months. "Real" PRS matches typically have more movement and less fiddly stuff than NRL22, but NRL22 stages help you get used to "rifle yoga."
• I'm old and "wore out" enough that stages which require drop-prone-shoot-move-[repeat] almost always result in timing out, but I can do it way better than I used to.

Good luck, enjoy the journey.

 

[Commodog]

Gentlemen your comments have been a Godsend. Knowing that I have options makes me feel so much better and also that I am not by myself on this. Thanks again.

 

[FatBoy]

4 x partial diseconomies w/laminectomies here. Started with one level and have been in repeatedly from my L2 to my S1. Most multi level. 3rd go around it took 2 years before I could lift my weight with my left foot.

I shoot NRA highpower and still struggle with long strings and hamstring cramps. Granted this isn’t run and gun shit, but I do at least one big run and gun a year. Full kit, 7+ miles. Water, obstacles, etc.

Take your time. Take PT seriously. Listen to your body. Pushing through pain will not help. (As I sit here getting ready for back day with a partial major pec tear and an impingement)

Curious what your surgery was? If you care to share. There are a lot of us older guys here that have gone under the knife repeatedly.

No doubt you will get better. Just have to be smart. If you got fused DO NOT fuck around until you are solid bone. That’s a no shit one there and cutting the rods and screws out to redo the work,,,, no thanks. That recovery time would be unbearable.

 

[smoothy8500]

Maybe have to try an alternative prone position, perhaps the old school NRA prone, AKA "Green Army man"?

 

[MBanning]

I was going to mention a higher bipod (or low tripod) and support under chest but @DownhillFromHere covered it way better than I could. I have never been to a match where the MD, RO, and other shooters wouldnt go out of their way to help another shooter.

 

[Baron23]

Topic near and dear to my heart. Laminectomy for herniation jammed into foraminal tunnel almost 15 years ago. Now…no disk at L3/4 at all and 4/5 is going.

So, I’ve stretched as far as I can and next week they are fusing the 3 vertebrae. Not looking forward to it.

Ask the surgeon if I would loose flexibility and he chuckled and said I haven’t been bending at that level for years.

I’m signed up for the Frank/Marc show in PA again this year in late Sep. by day 4 last year I was in rough shape but made it thru. Prone was fine…just the accumulation of activity after 4 days had me whining like a little girl (whining is my super power lol )

It’s yet to be seen what prone will be like after this surgery. 4 months until all restrictions are lifted.

I’m not thrilled about getting it but a wide array of Dr have all said I’m at the end of the road with what we have been doing to keep me moving and that my neurosurgeon is the absolute right guy for this procedure.

At 70 and with this back, I’m not even contemplating try to compete like the OP.

Kudos and best of luck to him

 

[Nik H]

I find that regular stretching and repeated dry fire in the prone does wonders for keeping your muscles relaxed. Even at older ages it is dependent on muscle memory.

The only exception is if you have injuries like @Baron23 described previously. I know nothing about that situation other than to say that I have seen accommodations made at matches

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

Danged happy I read this thread. Lots of good ideas. Gonna try some of them out today.

I remember back in the 60’s when we didn’t have no fancy bench’s or fancy shooting slings or fancy shooting bags or tripods, heck we only got to use them when we were shooting the M-60’s. (And more often than not the man carrying the “Pig” shot it from the hip, unless he was in a bunker and it was mounted on a tripod) But shooting prone was the way to go, and we all shot quite well. But that was when we were 16 years of age, now I’m in my Diamond Jubilee year.

Now my back was pretty much destroyed by a wayward horse. My neck was ruined in the 1990’s by a number of things, (work blamed it on Water Skiing, Wiilk blamed on having to look all day at a computer screen that was set too high) So, like the OP, shooting prone is not something I willing do now.

However, thanks to you fine gentleman‘s ideas, maybe this fellow is gonna get a new lift on life.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

In my post above, I droned on about finding an insomuch-as-possible comfortable prone position and practice transitioning into it.

Well, that's all true but there's another component:, especially if you're shooting on the clock: once in position, your rifle must be pointed more or less at your target, especially as regards elevation (bipod height). This is especially true with limited neck range of motion. If the bipod is set too low, you cannot drop the toe of the stock/chassis or bend your neck enough to get on target. Set bipod too high, your rear bag can't provide optimal support.

So, despite not having practiced prone elevation estimation and therefore losing points at an NRL22 match a few weeks ago, I didn't learn and did it again at my first PRS match of the season yesterday:

• Due to a forecast of rain (which thankfully moved out by start time), most targets were closer than usual (350-550 yards) but smaller than usual to compensate.
• So here's a nice prone stage comparatively geezer-friendly: a "six pack" of 6" and 8" round plates at 409 yards. At the beep, move to and go prone at position one, engage each target with one shot, get up and move to position two and repeat the sequence. Twelve shots, 100 seconds.
• Pretty reasonable. But I extended my bipod too much and found I was supporting the rear of the rifle with very minimal aid from my Gamechanger bag... turn bag on its end... a little better but not much... fumble fumble... fooey, what should have been a decent stage for me was... not.

Hoping to do another rimfire match next weekend. As much as I hate prone practice because it's not the most comfy thing for a septuagenarian to do, maybe I finally learned I gotta if I want to stop throwing away points.

 

[SanPatHogger]

I wonder if some low level stretching would help some of you guys. When I'm hurting I do YRG (yoga for regular guys). You don't have to do the whole 20 minute exercise and you don't have to push till you hurt. Maybe just doing the cat lift and cat arch a few times might help. If you can't flex all the way to the position, go as far as you can and stop, next time go a mm more. A couple times in the morning and a couple times at night. Childs position is pretty good too.

 

[FatBoy]

IT band, hamstring and hip flexor stretching is also very important with lower back issues. Tight hamstrings will pull your back out of alignment and can cause pinched nerves as well as disc bulging.

 

[max1840]

I did a lot of groundhog shooting in my youth prone and sitting. As I aged, I always shot from the bench. Took a course a couple years ago and barely made it through the first day. I could hardly get out of bed to take a leak. I left the next morning after crawling into my vehicle. The bench is my friend if I wish to continue shooting precision