The darn dillon 9mm sizing die hour-glass shape

[Len5E1]

Hey there,

So I have been loading 9mm for years using a loadmaster and lee dies and have made thousands of rounds that always came out great and looked great. This past year I have been using a dillon progressive and decided to buy the dillon 9mm dies for the heck of it. I was confused after my first few resizes after seeing a crazy hour glass shape on the case and an even worse bulge when seating the bullet. I know the bulge isn't really that uncommon with 9mm, especially being a tapered case, but the dillon dies made this shape very exaggerated.

Sooo my question is for those that use the dillon 9mm sizing die, do you just simply put up with the look? I have done some research to discover this is very common with the dillon 9mm sizing die but let's be honest we still care about looks as well as function or none of us would tumble our brass until it's shiny. I'm debating using my lee die or buying a new die altogether for the xl750 but I just wish the dillon die didn't make such an ugly weird shaped case. The die itself is very well made and has a larger opening to assist with progressive loading which sounds good on paper but I don't know if it's worth having butt ugly rounds that look defective (even though I know they are 100% perfectly fine if not better for some pistols.)

Opinions?

 

[Jake the dog]

Pictures?

 

[TheOfficeT-Rex]

Sounds like you've already made your decision. Just use your lee die.

There's nothing wrong with the 'coke bottle' shape.

 

[n0glock]

Get the Double Alpha expander, it makes bullet seating much better and gets rid of the off center bulge at the top and the case.

 

[NiteQwill]

Does it gauge correctly? Then you're fine.

I had OCD dealing with it years ago, bought a U Die and a Mightarmory Die... decided it didn't really matter and I was actually getting inconsistent depth seating with the Lee and MA die. Went back to Dillon. Feeds and shoots fine.

 

[Huskydriver]

Just use a Lee factory crimp die and it will resize the bulge out and crimp in station 5

 

[Huskydriver]

Pictures?

It's very common and it's known as Dillon case bulge or coke bottling or wasp waisted brass..

 

[Len5E1]

Just use a Lee factory crimp die and it will resize the bulge out and crimp in station 5

I actually did use the lee factory crimp die because when properly set I like it better than other crimpers. It doesn't affect the severe bulge caused by the dillon die though.

You guys are right, I probably did already decide in my head I just wanted to hear what other people decided to do when then ran into the dillon bulge. I was loading up some hornady 124 grain XTP for defense ammo and the bulge was just making such a good looking round look terrible. Maybe I'll use the dillon for my plinking ammo because it won't bother me as much but I would like to have my more expensive projectiles look decent for OCD purposes. I'll attach a pic for those that haven't seen it but it's way worse than it appears in photo and you can see the hourglass shape before even seating a bullet because the dillon die appears to resize the case to a smaller diameter than other dies do.

Top dillon bottom lee. These are pre-crimp though...

 

[NiteQwill]

Are you really going to be staring at your ammo before you load it in your mags and send it downrange? If it fits a gauge and your chamber, I wouldn't worry about it. Load it up and send it.

If it really bothers you, I have a Mighty Armory Gold Match TNT 9mm die with decapping pins that is collecting dust...

 

[Len5E1]

One more picture. If you look at the bottom one sized by the Dillon you can see the shades of color change twice. The lowest part is the normal spot where the resizing die stops and is usually there from all dies. Then you can see another one father up where the diameter of the case gets smaller a second time which is unique to Dillon dies.

 

[Len5E1]

Are you really going to be staring at your ammo before you load it in your mags and send it downrange? If it fits a gauge and your chamber, I wouldn't worry about it. Load it up and send it.

If it really bothers you, I have a Mighty Armory Gold Match TNT 9mm die with decapping pins that is collecting dust...

Hey nite,

I might take you up on that die if I don't find something else. I'll pm you asking how much you want for it if I'm interested. As for the rest, I know it's kind of ridiculous of me to begin with and I sort of expected these kind of replies on the hide It's literally a cosmetic issue only and I know it doesn't harm anything but was just curious what path others took. I'm apparently leaning towards the get a different die so my ammo that only gets looked at when loading a mag can look pretty route. Can't blame me though right?

 

[NiteQwill]

Hey nite,

I might take you up on that die if I don't find something else. I'll pm you asking how much you want for it if I'm interested. As for the rest, I know it's kind of ridiculous of me to begin with and I sort of expected these kind of replies on the hide It's literally a cosmetic issue only and I know it doesn't harm anything but was just curious what path others took. I'm apparently leaning towards the get a different die so my ammo that only gets looked at when loading a mag can look pretty route. Can't blame me though right?

No problem. Yea, send me a PM if you're interested.

I think as [precision] reloaders we are all on the spectrum of OCD. There is nothing wrong with that.

 

[427Cobra]

I have shot 80k 9mm rounds thru my SVI, STI, and Glocks, all loaded on my Dillon 650 in the last 3 years, the hour glass is no big deal, they shoot accurate as hell, the SVI will do 1 inch groups at 50 yards, and for Gods sake get rid of the Lee Factory Crimp Die.

 

[MLS2GO]

The Dillon dies make a great round that will drop in almost any chamber and gauge in a Saami gauge. Function problem absolutely not. Accuracy problem, no. If you don’t like that’s Ok too. Most people who shoot 9 want it to run in their gun, be accurate. You have a third standard.

 

[Steel head]

It’s a non issue as long as as it feeds.
My Hornandy 9mm dies do it.

 

[918v]

The Lee die doesn’t size the case as much as the Dillon. It kinda just sizes the neck portion. I don’t like it. I use a Redding die which behaves like the Dillon. My rounds have a hourglass shape but I don’t get any bullet setback during feeding.

 

[Len5E1]

and for Gods sake get rid of the Lee Factory Crimp Die.

I seem to see like a 50/50 blend of people that say it's great and people that say it's terrible. What's the deal that makes it a bad choice? I thought it's mostly just a setup issue. I tried the Dillon taper crimp die and the lee fcd and both had good results. I set crimp to just return case to normal. I pulled bullets crimped with both dies and measured the bullets. FCD didn't squish the bullet at all.

The Dillon dies make a great round that will drop in almost any chamber and gauge in a Saami gauge. Function problem absolutely not. Accuracy problem, no. If you don’t like that’s Ok too. Most people who shoot 9 want it to run in their gun, be accurate. You have a third standard.

Hey man I get it. If you read my previous comments you will see I already agree with your statements. Just because I like pretty doesn't mean I'm giving up accuracy or reliability unless you are implying the Dillon die is the only one that can give me that... Im just feeling out what peoples choice was in this situation.

This thread has been helpful because in my last searches I didn't see some of these comments and it's making me feel better about using it on my normal plinking rounds as it may increase it's reliability across a wide range of pistols.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

9x19 isn't a straight wall cartridge, it is supposed to taper. The real question is why doesn't your Lee die correctly size the case?

 

[JGottschall]

Call Dillon and have them make it the right size!!

 

[Len5E1]

9x19 isn't a straight wall cartridge, it is supposed to taper. The real question is why doesn't your Lee die correctly size the case?

I already mentioned that I know it's a tapered case. What makes you think the lee isn't correctly sizing the case? I've shot my loads out of czs, glocks, barettas, and sigs. Not one failure of any kind over 3k rounds. I would say the lee does a great job.

Call Dillon and have them make it the right size!!

I wish This is how all of their 9mm dies are and it does seem to increase reliability but I would prefer it to be more like everyone elses dies.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

I already mentioned that I know it's a tapered case. What makes you think the lee isn't correctly sizing the case? I've shot my loads out of czs, glocks, barettas, and sigs. Not one failure of any kind over 3k rounds. I would say the lee does a great job.

Because this thread exists and Lee makes low quality products for the most part?

BTW, in the first picture you posted the lower cartridge is uncrimped.

 

[Len5E1]

Because this thread exists and Lee makes low quality products for the most part?

I'm confused. Lee makes a shitty 9mm die that resizes incorrectly BECAUSE a thread complaining about dillon OVERSIZING a case exists? Your logic makes perfect sense.

That said - Yes lee can make some budget stuff and the dillon die is perfectly fine. Let's just go back to having fun shooting and reloading and keep the bear poking to a minimum.

 

[CK1.0]

Sooo my question is for those that use the dillon 9mm sizing die, do you just simply put up with the look?

Opinions?

The Dillon dies are kind of crappy honestly, they work fine, but their best feature is how Dillon touts that "they come apart easily for cleaning"... which is great and saves you like 5 minutes the one or two times a year you feel like cleaning them I guess lol. They're overly forgiving at their mouths/openings to make the press less likely to hang up, but it ends up not sizing all the way down the case and is what is responsible for turning out the "hourglass" rounds. You don't need the mouths of the dies that open, the presses can still be run plenty fast as long as you're smooth on the handle and have everything dialed in right.

Just grab a Lee sizing die for like $20, the standard one (Lee #90548), it sizes further down the case than almost anything else out there at any price, and it's already undersized slightly at like .001-.002" - you can go further to the Lee U-die undersize die, but it's not really needed in 9mm (great go-to for .40/10mm tho). I have a Redding Pro sizing die too for 9mm, but I don't use it because honestly the Lee die is better and you can get crazy hard decap pins for them from Squirrel Daddy that last forever.

Fuck the Lee FCD in 9mm, if you need that for your rounds to gauge/chamber then you're doing something wrong earlier in the process or at one of the earlier stations. For 9mm any regular Taper Crimp die will work (including the Dillon), just remember to use it more like a "bell-removal die" than a crimp die: only turn it down to 1/4 turn past where rounds won't drop in a gauge until where they do and you're set.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

I'm confused. Lee makes a shitty 9mm die that resizes incorrectly BECAUSE a thread complaining about dillon OVERSIZING a case exists? Your logic makes perfect sense.

That said - Yes lee can make some budget stuff and the dillon die is perfectly fine. Let's just go back to having fun shooting and reloading and keep the bear poking to a minimum.

This thread exists because your Lee die is under sizing your brass and is low quality. Maybe you need to reexamine your components or setup? As mentioned earlier, the DAA powder funnel works better than the Dillon.

Here is factory ammo on the left and reloads using a Dillon die on the right. Both exhibit the exact same hour glass bulge.

 

[918v]

Lee does not size the case as much as the Dillon. I don’t think it’s because of low quality. Lee is perfectly capable of maintaining tight tolerances. They can grind carbide as well as anybody else. They chose that particular dimension for their 9mm die. Why? I think it’s because they want to reduce sizing effort while maintaining reliability.

For people who don’t like it, they offer a “U” die which sizes the case more.

 

[918v]

Call Dillon and have them make it the right size!!

What is the right size? There are dozens of manufacturers of 9x19 and the brass is all different. You expect Dillon to grind the carbide to different sizes?

 

[JGottschall]

Well all I can tell you is I have got a Redding carbide and It works fine. Dillon should be able to figure it out.

 

[Len5E1]

This thread exists because your Lee die is under sizing your brass and is low quality. Maybe you need to reexamine your components or setup? As mentioned earlier, the DAA powder funnel works better than the Dillon.

Here is factory ammo on the left and reloads using a Dillon die on the right. Both exhibit the exact same hour glass bulge.

Im not really sure where you're coming from or why you are attacking my setup or methods. No where in this thread did I say anything about the Dillon or lee being low quality or bad, the whole thread is about a cosmetic only issue. Why do you keep saying my lee is bad or not sizing things correctly? The lee sizing die is just fine. Again, why do I "need to reexamine my other components" because I dislike a cosmetic issue the Dillon causes?

As for your picture, in most cases the Dillon hour glass is even more noticeable than yours but besides that those factory rounds barely have an hour glass shape at all compared to the Dillon. Terrible comparison. Looking at the sides of the nickel cases they look pretty damn straight actually.

 

[Xcount]

The only way to get a bulge is if you seat the bullet off axis. just because a dillon over sizes the brass in no way can create a bulge on one side. I know dillon progressive presses are made to crank out ammo but if you don't slow down and ENSURE the bullet is sitting squarely you will never have consistently accurate and 100% feeding ammo. The Double Alpha powder drop tube goes along way to helping this but you can still screw up seating the bullet.
slow down, make 9mm like your life depends on it. With a 550 you can still make over 300 rounds an hour. I had problems using a dillon die and then I slowed down using the same die. no more problems. then I bought the double alpha powder tube and that allowed me to speed up some. 100% functioning ammo when it used to be 20% problems.
I also turned the dillon sizing die down to a slight overcamming adjustment. wasp waist went away.

slow down and seat the bullet perfectly square and the bulging will go away. who cares what the waist looks like if it functions.

would anybody here use a die that cleans up their faulty rifle rounds after the fact? not one single person. FCD die does nothing to help a properly made round. throw it away and adjust your dies properly and slow down.

I'm just a 20+ year bullseye shooter. multiple Distinguished badges and P100 top 20 guy using a 92FS. 9mm takes a little more patience than 45.

 

[Len5E1]

Slow down

I get where you're coming from xcount but this isn't a me issue. Im only reporting what is already widely known issue is the Dillon 9mm sizing die. It's not a bullet seating or concentricity issue either as the bulge is 360 degrees. My rounds were also made on a forster co-ax not the 750 so I don't think I can slow them down much more. I prefer to do my SD ammo single stage. You're right though, a lot of people's issues can be resolved by slowing things down and taking your time, I agree with that 100%.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Im not really sure where you're coming from or why you are attacking my setup or methods. No where in this thread did I say anything about the Dillon or lee being low quality or bad, the whole thread is about a cosmetic only issue. Why do you keep saying my lee is bad or not sizing things correctly? The lee sizing die is just fine. Again, why do I "need to reexamine my other components" because I dislike a cosmetic issue the Dillon causes?

As for your picture, in most cases the Dillon hour glass is even more noticeable than yours but besides that those factory rounds barely have an hour glass shape at all compared to the Dillon. Terrible comparison. Looking at the sides of the nickel cases they look pretty damn straight actually.

I think I've had four Lee dies and they all sized differently. Three of them the carbide inserts fell out. The nickel cases in the picture don't photograph well but they're pretty well the same as the reloads.

Here's three sized cases, all FC head stamps. From right to left, sized with RCBS, Lee, and Dillon (die not shown). Your dillon sizing die isn't the issue.

 

[918v]

Well all I can tell you is I have got a Redding carbide and It works fine. Dillon should be able to figure it out.

Figure what out? They manufacture dies to size the smallest thinnest case so it can hold a bullet. If you use anything bigger than the smallest thinnest it will assume a hourglass shape when you seat a bullet.

 

[Xcount]

I get where you're coming from xcount but this isn't a me issue. Im only reporting what is already widely known issue is the Dillon 9mm sizing die. It's not a bullet seating or concentricity issue either as the bulge is 360 degrees. My rounds were also made on a forster co-ax not the 750 so I don't think I can slow them down much more. I prefer to do my SD ammo single stage. You're right though, a lot of people's issues can be resolved by slowing things down and taking your time, I agree with that 100%.

I'm only reporting to you that I use a dillon die and don't have a waist on my ammo. I used to but I adjusted the dillon die in the dillon press and now I don't. I'm basically using the equivalent to the model T of presses, but its properly adjusted.

 

[Len5E1]

I'm only reporting to you that I use a dillon die and don't have a waist on my ammo. I used to but I adjusted the dillon die in the dillon press and now I don't. I'm basically using the equivalent to the model T of presses, but its properly adjusted.

What type of adjustments have you made to the die to help with the waist? I tried a few different length depths in terms of how far the die is out but not sure what else can be done with this die. I'm new to the dillon die so if you have a good method let me know...

 

[lightman]

That hourglass shape is kind of a Dillon signature. It works great and theres nothing that Dillon needs to figure out.

 

[Xcount]

What type of adjustments have you made to the die to help with the waist? I tried a few different length depths in terms of how far the die is out but not sure what else can be done with this die. I'm new to the dillon die so if you have a good method let me know...

well, like I said in my initial post. I adjusted the die down further than I had it. it was less than half a turn difference from how i had the die adjusted for years before. overcammed on my 550. was counter intuitive but cleared up all the problems I was having for basically years. I hardly shot any 9mm because of the ammo problems. not one problem since.

 

[Disfunctional_Engineer]

have both Lee and Dillon 9mm dies. Both work but even with the hour glass I prefer the Dillon. My Lee Die "pops" on the down stroke amd requires more force. It is obnoxious.

 

[Len5E1]

have both Lee and Dillon 9mm dies. Both work but even with the hour glass I prefer the Dillon. My Lee Die "pops" on the down stroke amd requires more force. It is obnoxious.

That's strange. Since I made this post I've been using both dies and am fine with both. The lee isn't any different on the strokes than the Dillon though. Are your lee the carbide ones?

 

[Disfunctional_Engineer]

That's strange. Since I made this post I've been using both dies and am fine with both. The lee isn't any different on the strokes than the Dillon though. Are your lee the carbide ones?

yeah the tc sizer. I use it in my lnl press and the dillon dies in my 550.