Re: The effect of free recoil on POI
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outerspace</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What you see is deceiving you. Once the trigger is pulled, recoil begins to disturb the rifle bore at rest. This disturbance is immediate and progressive. Control of the rifle can make such disturbance however appear minuscule. Nevertheless, this disturbance is measurable, as well as observable.
What you've seen is movement of the rifle after the bullet has left the bore; and, obviously, movement then is not effecting accuracy. And, if the shooter had maintained consistent control of the rifle, while the bullet was still traveling though the bore accuracy would not be effected. This is because recoil is bound by the relationship between the shooter, gun, and ground.
Take an iron sighted rifle and you can see something that can only be seen from the shooter's perspective, something your observation has not shown. It should convince you that your observation has reached the wrong conclusion. Shoot the rifle from a steady support. Adjusting NPA, focusing on the front sight, and with the best follow through you can muster, you should be able to call your shots, that's to say, you should know exactly where the front sight was in relationship to the target as the bullet cleared the barrel. Change the position. You will see this changes your call. Why, because recoil is different. It has caused the bore to move someplace other than where it would have moved before altering the position. If recoil began, as you say you have seen, after the bullet had left the rifle, the aim would not have been disturbed and the bullet would still hit where aimed.
The big picture here is knowing what's important to good shooting. And, although I appreciate your point of view, perhaps you might want to test your facts from what you've done, in addition to what you've seen.</div></div>
The issue is simply that this is a measurable phenomenon. So far, the opposing side has only offered theory and no data. While I have provided some "data", in my judgement it does not support the opposition, I am supposed to believe in something I cannot see, when I can pretty much see what's going on.
That's not to say that I'm right. I may be wrong. I would just need to see data/observation.
Even if you are right, we need to know how much the muzzle does rise before it no longer effects the bullet, and I cannot find anybody supplying that information, or where I can go to find it. This is not a criticism and not meant to be provocative, I just have to give my honest assessment that the sum of the information I have seen indicates that the effect of recoil on POI is indeterminably small, possibly negligible even within the incredibly tight margins of long range shooting.
I have no axe to grind either way, I do not want to be wrong, but on an issue where the phenomenon can probably be determined, I would like to see it demonstrated.</div></div>
Dude, marksmanship is not esoteric or apocalyptic, the science of it is settled. Perhaps, you did not read or understand the third paragraph from my previous post. Its instruction shows you how you can observe movement produced by recoil, while the bullet is still traveling through the bore. One thing for sure, your pseudoscience is distracting you from good shooting. Oh, your comment, "we need to know how much the muzzle does rise before it no longer effects the bullet", I think "demonstrates" your ignorance of this topic in general. Even a miniscule divergence in angular movement, less than the thickness of a quarter, measured at the muzzle from line of bore at rest and line of bore at bullet exit, will cause a miss at any distance other than one where the target can be hit intuitively.
