The Evolution of Barrel Cleaning

Coated rods get their coatings damaged/shaved from normal use. I've seen a ridiculous number of coated rods stuck inside barrels. Even stuck one myself once. Everything fine, no warning, and boom... the rod just locks up in the barrel.

Carbon rods lack strength and have their fitments come loose on the ends. This is especially true for small caliber rods. Solvents also attack their resins and they simply break down over time.

The frequency that most people shoot and subsequently have to clean is no doubt significantly lower than mine. I switched to pro-shot and ivy stainless rods and my cleaning rod issues have been gone for nearly 2 years. Using stainless rods basically made me feel like a moron for using crappy coated and carbon rods for the last couple decades. It's comical. So if folks want to use carbon and coated rods... go ahead. I will never buy either again.

Ever.
 
My own preference is for the Carbon fiber rods. I have seen objections on the basis that they are hard and abrasive. That could well be true, but I have not seen anything beyond opinions to support that.

I think that any rod can become abrasive if it's allowed to accumulate fouling, and then allowed to rub against the bore. This would seem to occur most likely at the throat, and then most likely at the muzzle, primarily when used without a rod guide. Any flex that occurs while the rod is inside the bore has the potential to cause the rod to abrade against the bore interior. I wipe my rods with an absorbent cloth after every pass through the bore, so fouling accumulation is kept to a minimum, and also use a rod guide at all times when using a cleaning rod. Patches should be removed once they exit the muzzle; pulling them back through can be a serious cause of crown damage and excessive wear inside the muzzle.

The end bushings of cleaning rod guides should be carefully matched to the actual cleaning rod diameter. Most of us use the thinner rods. That can be OK, but when we clean a smaller diameter bore with a smaller diameter rod, we need to take care to assure that the guide bushing's inner diameter allows only minimal lateral clearance for the rod. Running a 30 caliber guide tip bushing with a 22 caliber rod in a 22 caliber bore is no better than using no guide at all. I prefer to use the largest diameter rod that fits properly within the given bore, to minimize any rod flex, which is where I suspect those mysterious kinks develop,

Bores which cannot be accessed from the breech end need to have a reliable form of muzzle bore guide employed. A bore snake can be useful, but at some point, a rod becomes necessary.

If you don't use a bore guide every time you clean, why do you even own one in the first place?

In 'Nam, we used a fired 12ga hull with the primer punched out and the flash hole reamed to rod diameter as a muzzle rod guide that slipped tightly over the M-14 flash suppressor. Perhaps less than perfect, but also perhaps a bit better than nothing at all?

My preference for carbon rod shafts is because the carbon fiber rods will not assume a bend. Every metallic rod I have ever owned has eventually assumed a bend..I have always taken great pains to protect my rods from bending, but eventually, they all acquire that kink, however mild. When they do, they can rub along the inside of the bore. That's not something I'll accept from a cleaning rod. I use the carbon fiber rods because they appear better at resisting any acquisition of such bends.

Just for kicks. try rolling your metal rods along a flat surface, and see whether they have or haven't acquired that kink.

Some apprehension gets expressed about how cleaning may be the largest single contributor to bore wear. If it is, I think that bent rods rate high on the list of culprits. But I also think that except in extreme cases, the real killer of bores is heat. Bore transit times are minuscule, with the entire bore transit time a barrel experiences before wear out probably totals maybe just a few minutes overall. The extreme heat and pressure a bore/throat undergoes with each firing can be hard to visualize. Throats are probably more vulnerable to cleaning wear, especially when bore guides are used incorrectly or not at all. That does not combine well with throat damage due to heat.

Greg
 
I don't understand why these bore cleaning Co's feel the need to use brass for jags, like that proshot VFG adaptor??? I wish these Co's would pick another material. I'd like to know it's the copper coming out of the barrel rather than from the jag.

Good article and thanks for the CLR tip.

BTW, my faucet was about ruined with hard water deposits so it started leaking. I used CLR which cleaned up the exterior of the faucet real nice. It got inside too, which temporarily stopped the leak, only problem was the CLR ate the innards after a few weeks, finishing it off, lol.

Cool that triple bull knows the solution for next time.

Bore Tech was the first to come out with non brass jags. No blue/green unless copper present. I’ve never had a brush down one of my Good barrels....just Bore Tech Eliminatot...c

 
Bore Tech was the first to come out with non brass jags. No blue/green unless copper present. I’ve never had a brush down one of my Good barrels....just Bore Tech Eliminatot...c

I think I already commented that my cleaning rod has a brass end which causes the patch to get green on it. My question is which rod Co's are completely copper or brass free?

Getting low on Boretech, time to order more...
 
I think bore brushes are best used as a solvent applicator; the bristles reach into the rifling groves better. Metallic bristles are not necessary in this application, and I use nylon. Using a metallic brush to abrade fouling probably doesn't work, that stuff is pretty resistant, best removed by simply allowing the solution to soften and dissolve it over a period. The cleaning solution works over time, and should be permitted to soak awhile, then brushed out and repeated until the blue/green is reduced acceptably. I finish up with a patching out using rubbing alcohol to neutralize any solution, then dry patch, then a light oiling using an oil/alcohol mixture, which evaporates to leave a minimal oil residue.

Greg
 
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OK, since I haven't actually tried the pellets, I'll gladly cede the point.

My emphasis is that brushes generally can't achieve what many folks try using them for. They really aren't very effective at digging out fouling; the fouling is just more stubborn than most expect it to be.

Consequently, I avoid bronze, stainless, etc. brushes because for solvent application, the nylon simply works better than the metallic ones. And, I assume, the pellets do even better. It's the solvent that does the work over time, not a brush being wielded as an abrasive tool. The pellets achieve the task without giving any false impressions.

Many years ago, the NRA published a series of "Fact Books", in which they officially approved Lemon Juice/Citric Acid as their preferred brass cleaner. I use house brand unsweetened lemonade Kool-aide mix (a cheaper lemon shine substitute) with water in a spritzer bottle as a dampening agent for my Walnut case tumbler media. I start the tumbler up with just the dry media, spray several squirts onto the walnut, and let it agitate awhile in order to give the acid solution, etc., time to spread and penetrate the walnut and let it expand fully. I hold off adding the brass until I'm sure the expansion is done, otherwise it'll get inside the cases and expand inside them, creating an impenetrable caked mass.

After a few applications, enough acid residue remains in the walnut that one only needs to use water thereafter.

CLR would appear to be taking the subject another step or few further. Something which dissolves brass scale/tarnish should work equally well for copper fouling, and I'd expect other forms of fouling should fall to it as well.

BTW, I also found that by cleaning the brass in the damp walnut, then simply leaving it in overnight, an olivey-green patina emerges, eliminating any reflective flash. It has held up for me through the loading press and through firing, yet polishes off again in the normal damp walnut cleaning cycle.

This topic is really making me think and stretch the old mental envelope. Glad you posted it.

Greg
 
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Carbon rods lack strength and have their fitments come loose on the ends. This is especially true for small caliber rods. Solvents also attack their resins and they simply break down over time.

The frequency that most people shoot and subsequently have to clean is no doubt significantly lower than mine.
Not in my experience

I competed in HP rifle with an AR service rifle for almost a decade and most of that time I used a Tipton CF rod to clean the several barrels I burned through. I never had a single issue with that rod, still have it and still use it.

I bet my shooting and cleaning frequency in those days matches or exceeds yours.

 
So what are you guys all using? I wouldn't mind a few suggestions on what I can use on my guns. I currently have a cheaper steel/aluminum (whatever it is) rod set but I have heard mixed reviews on how this can potentially damage your barrel. I run Gunslick Bore Foam with a bore snake for a quick clean, but I know some people claim that bore snakes are pretty much useless for cleaning a fouled bore.

Looking to invest in something nice that I can use on my gassers and my bolt guns (and maybe my pistols), from 22-30 cal on my rifles, and 22-357 on my pistols. I figured I will buy a dedicated rod system for my 50 cal when that is done, unless you guys know of a set/system that will cover all my calibers.
 
Yes, that's right. By definition.

pro·fes·sion·al
prəˈfeSH(ə)n(ə)l/
adjective
  1. 1.
    relating to or connected with a profession.
    "young professional people"
    synonyms:white-collar, nonmanual
    "people in professional occupations"
  2. 2.
    (of a person) engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as a pastime.
    "a professional boxer"
    synonyms:paid, salaried
    "a professional rugby player"
noun
  1. 1.
    a person engaged or qualified in a profession.
    "professionals such as lawyers and surveyors"
    synonyms:white-collar worker, office worker
    "affluent young professionals"
I do this for a living. That means upwards of 15,000 to 20,000 purposeful precision rifle rounds per year. Sometimes more, sometimes less... but not much less. My work has been published for many years. In print, this very website's articles, my casual posts on this forum, the few hundred students that have trained under me. My resume is right there for all to see. If you have more round count and experience than I, as you're claiming, then prove it.

Otherwise simply say "I like carbon rods," and go about your business. Leave me out of it.
 
CLR and blueing?

I expect it would affect rust-based metal finishes much the same way as Naval Jelly does, sharing significant acidity. Most of my firearms do not use a blue finish, but I intend to take measures to protect the finish on ones that do, especially my military antiques, like my Mosin-Nagant 91/30, and my Yugo SKS.

I don't see this as an impediment, simply a factor to consider.

Greg
 
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Get academic about it if you like. In the real world pro-shot and ivy stainless rods work amazingly well. I played the dewey coated rod game as well as the tipton carbon fiber game... and I'd rather get whipped with both than to use either one in a rifle barrel ever again.

I bought an IVY for my AI AT...I'm used to Bore-tech rods...The ivy is really made well compared to everything else I have tried. It works great; especially with the felt cleaning tips that started this thread. I switched away from Dewey for any of my precision rifles as I always worried about chemical reactions with the coating.

Someone also made another great point...match the bore guide to the rods diameter. Makes for a precision fit like no other. That is why I use Lucas bore guides as they are tailored to your rod's diameter
 
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this subject has a life all its own
my way is just that my way, gm tec remember that stuff? still have a couple of containers
all i use is wipe-out and patches, my zero never changes dont need 10 shots for it to settle down
Barrels work best seasoned to what degree depends on you n barrel in question
If it takes 10 shots after every cleaning to get rifle back to shooting, then your over cleaning imho
each to his own, what works for me may not for you
any thing labelled gun cleaner is $$, lot of automotive stuff works just as well for less $$
 
Bringing back a bit of an old thread/ article but I have a lingering question and after reading the whole thread I still didn't find the answer. For those of us without bore scopes how do we know when the carbon ring has been sufficiently removed? Any tips or advice would be appreciated.

If this was brought up previously just point me in the right direction.
 
FYI:

Do NOT leave CLR on carbon steel.

CLR cuts carbon very well, literally melting it away and so I used it to clean some Stainless steel muzzlebrakes. Few hours in CLR and the brakes came out clean. Awesome! I had an old R&D muzzlebrake that was carbon steel that I wanted to clean. I dropped that into the CLR bath for about 12hrs (too long) and it came out looking like it had spent 10 Wisconsin winters...... totally rusted and pitted. It's scrap with the threads eaten away. No problems at all with the Stainless steel parts.


Yeah don't soak the end of your bolt in it. I think I'm going to keep CLR away from guns. Looks like at the very least it will strip the finish right off carbon steel

Wonder what I should do to fix a 700 bolt that has the finish stripped off the forward 1"
 
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@orkan

Can you post a video on how you were able to manage getting a carbon cleaning rod stuck in your barrel. There's many shooters out there like me, that aren't familiar with how to do this.
 
I tried the CLR since we keep it on hand due to our hard water. It will do exactly as Okra stated. Problem is it must stay in the bore and some WD40 on everything afterwards to neutralize the acid if leaked into any of the works. I say WD40 because we're sticking with stuff available at the grocery store. As for rods, you will have to look elsewhere. BTW, he is averaging upwards of 55 rounds per day. Not hard to do with his set up. It just sounds awesome when he says 20,000 annually as opposed to 50 daily.
 
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I've seen a ridiculous number of coated rods stuck inside barrels. Even stuck one myself once. Everything fine, no warning, and boom... the rod just locks up in the barrel.

Carbon rods lack strength and have their fitments come loose on the ends.

Did you have a fitment come loose and you bent the jag or ??? I'm trying to envision how you get the cleaning ROD stuck in the barrel?
 
Where did I say I got a carbon cleaning rod stuck in my barrel? I've never done that, so since you're looking for instructions on how to get one stuck, you'll have to ask someone else.

Coated rods get their coatings damaged/shaved from normal use. I've seen a ridiculous number of coated rods stuck inside barrels. Even stuck one myself once. Everything fine, no warning, and boom... the rod just locks up in the barrel.

Carbon rods lack strength and have their fitments come loose on the ends. This is especially true for small caliber rods. Solvents also attack their resins and they simply break down over time.

The frequency that most people shoot and subsequently have to clean is no doubt significantly lower than mine. I switched to pro-shot and ivy stainless rods and my cleaning rod issues have been gone for nearly 2 years. Using stainless rods basically made me feel like a moron for using crappy coated and carbon rods for the last couple decades. It's comical. So if folks want to use carbon and coated rods... go ahead. I will never buy either again.

Ever.

Did you ever get that thing out yet.
 
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How can you get a cleaning rod of any sort stuck in a barrel?

How do you preach all over the internet about every precision topic known to man when your sticking cleaning rods in your guns?

People pay for this advice?
 
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How can you get a cleaning rod of any sort stuck in a barrel?

How do you preach all over the internet about every precision topic known to man when your sticking cleaning rods in your guns?

People pay for this advice?
A patch that’s a hair too big. A patch that’s sized for a parkerhale jag gets used in a point jag. Maybe it just slips a smidge from the jag onto the rod wedging it in there. It’s relatively simple to get something jammed in a bore…