The far future of precision shooting rigs

[BigBrother]

Alright, we spend plenty of time obsessing over, comparing, and analyzing every last bolt and surface on our rigs. Poring over the details of the here and now, as it were.

I got to thinking much bigger picture last night though about what the future holds for the sport/discipline, and thought it would be an interesting and enlightening exercise to predict what the major advancements in precision riflery would be- not in the next decade, I'm talking the next 50-100 years.

This thread probably won't be for everyone, but for those who've got a mind for science (or at least science fiction

), let's hear it.

I'll get the ball rolling...

The first *major* advancement I'd see would be moving to non kinetic-based rifles. In other words, energy. Lasers are getting smaller and smaller and they're now fielding active laser defense systems on humvee-sized vehicles. Within 30 years we could potentially see man-portable energy weapons.

Assuming we're still using the current optical/scope paradigm, this would do away with any considerations of wind, elevation, and range estimation. The fundamentals would all apply, but it would be akin to shooting at 50 yards, all of the time. The only factor to consider would be beam dispersion or weakening, either at distance or through certain media (fog, etc.)

The other related advancement I could see would be automatic tracking of targets. In other words, redirecting the aperture of such an energy system automatically, regardless of shooter point of aim (to some degree). This would truly turn it into a point and click affair.

Another farther-fetched idea would be micromunitions that require no line of sight, and used the same communication infrastructure that we currently employ between UAVs, helis, etc. If every rifleman could launch essentially a self-propelled munition that could zero in on any tracked target across the battlefield, it would change the face of warfare dramatically.

So.. what would be your predictions for the next century of rifle development?

 

[Lindy]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

No precision rifles - just a carbine for personal defense, supplemented by a laser target designator which works for artillery, mortar, or aircraft-dropped precision guided munitions.

 

[BigBrother]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

Nuke em from orbit, it's the only way to be sure?

 

[cwood3]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

I just wanna get past 12/21/2012 first.

 

[Captain Kirk]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs



.....and only little girls will ride horses

 

[300sniper]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

meh, the world is only going to be around for a little over 2-1/2 years from now

 

[GunGuru727]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cwood3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just wanna get past 12/21/2012 first.</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">meh, the world is only going to be around for a little over 2-1/2 years from now

</div></div>

Unfortunately that may be true. Hahaha

 

[wolfenstien]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

Personally I would like to see every family car with a top mounter turret .50 cal. And yes that comes standard. We can add grenade launchers for the the low price of.....

It be nice to have a scope of some sort that you could laze a target and then have a computer in your scope find the correct trajectory for that perfect shot and let you know when to pull the trigger. Maybe even some economy size smart bullet that track once airborne. I will take 5000 rounds when they release them.

 

[cobaltbomb]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

i dont think lasers will be an option in the next century.

we will see things going the semi auto route with the same accuracy as bolt guns have, maybe with high velocity caseless ammo.

probably we will just keep our old style ammo with brass cases and improvments, just like the car industry has so much reserach put into the gasoline engines, they work so well that electrical motors have no chance on the market

on the scope sector we will see day night /scopes maybe infrared, with integrated rangefinders and athmospherical conditions compensators and immediate ajustments to the reticle on the push of one button, maybe with integrated gps and artillery strike call in options etc....

 

[BigBrother]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

Yeah, I agree with you on the scopes- on the semi autos too.

I was going to say that in the near term a predominance of semis will probably be the first major shift. Barrels, manufacturing, etc. are just getting so good that the superior accuracy of bolts may soon become negligible, if a factor at all.

I don't know if I agree about energy though - we've gone from 747-sized generators to humvee portable ones already. Recall that in the short span of 20 years, we went from this:

http://www.knifeedge.com/forums/downloads/p51-mustang%2520roush_LIQ.jpg

to this:

http://chandrakantha.com/articles/indian_music/filmi_sangeet/media/1966_sr712.jpg

I'm just saying it could happen

 

[ArcticFun]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

I would hazard a geuss and go with the multi-use optic... Infared, thermal, night vision, auto ranging reticle (finds range and automatically commensates for a given range and condtions). Basically a scope that will find the distance, monitor the conditions and adjust so all you need to place the cross hair on the target and pull the trigger.

I also think that we will be dealing with caseless high velocity ammuntion, maybe pneumatic but I highly doubt we will ever move away from from the use of kinetic energy as weapon (bullets, artillery etc..) becuase the havoc kinetic energy creates is quite amazing.

Agreed with semi-autos however I think robust rifle systems (think the AI AW series) will remain in use simply because they are the best. Now this isn't a good example but the M-16 and it's variants have been around for 40-50 years and if anything they get better each year.

 

[snipitysnipe]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

It will probably end up like that movie predator, but for people. One person/unit that can do it all. There will be no need for multiple specialized units.

 

[jawa]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

I agree with the energy part of the future rifle theory. I believe there will not only be a magazine for non cartridge ammunition, but also a energy "magazine"per say that will be used to fire the non cartridge ammo. I believe that also energized magnets could be used to produce some sort of wicked rifle that will be shooting metal slugs at a high rate of velocity, still producing the Kinetic kill power. As for optics, I believe that they will have some sort of scope/eye coordination that will use a processor linked with what our brain interprets as sight. Sort of like what we see in Comanche heilcopter- where the pilot looks, the gun looks too kind of thing. Just my crazy .02 on the topic.

 

[BigBrother]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

One thing I've wondered about caseless ammo, since it's ubiquitous in near-future war fiction - is there really any advantage to be gained here besides weight?

 

[bbhank]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEu9LLQpOF8

I just ordered one of these. I had mine upgraded and got the adjustable check piece and a BSA red dot for it.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

I think we are a long ways away of finding a technology that improves on the energy density available from chemical based propulsion. Caseless ammo still needs an ignition source, so the case may go, but what about the primer?

Someday we're going to have to deal with the growing opposition to lead in the environment. I like bismuth, but its density is offset by negative factors like the way it swells when transitioning from a fluid to a solid state. It might work better as a swaged wire core than as a casting.

Additionally, copper has proven to be a strategic metal with scarcities at inopportune times. I think that we should be looking into alternative alloys for jackets and casings, on a pro-active, rather than reactive, basis. I'd favor aluminum, but it's too chemically active, i.e. corrosion.

Finally, something needs to be done to improve the surface finish of chrome plating in bores. The mechanical qualities of the chrome are advantageous, but something seems to be lacking when it comes to accuracy.

Action designs are far from their ultimate evolution. I think the concept of the bolt carrier allows for straight line manual operation, be it pump, lever, or straight line bolt handle manipulation. I personally like the idea of using a forend pump action to manually cycle a semi. Consider an inset sliding handle nesting in a cutout in the sides of a rigid, stationary forend.

Springs are interesting critters. I like the ones that work like wrapped tapes, and I think that spring loaded toggle mechanisms are an idea which is badly underutilized.

And somebody need to come up with a standardized cost effective box magazine for the NATO 7.62 cartridge family; something that costs more like $20 than $90. It's not rocket surgery, folks.

Fabrication materials for firearms have come a long way. Natural materials are now used in ways that address the environmental instabilities of the past. Synthetics are superlative for strength and weight advantages. New ways can certainly still be found to improve the manner in which they are integrated into firearm design.

Metal tubes and sheet metal stampings could replace castings, forgings, and machining, but I believe they should rightly only serve as a stepping stones toward composite equivalents. The tooling costs alone demand this further evolution. I think that molded heat activated resin impregnated synthetic fiber cloths will eventually take up the roles of mechanical shells and reinforcing structures. Just look at the way FRP has revolutionized the art of automotive interior fabrication, and that's not even a cutting edge technology.

Sights and electronics are overdue for a marriage. Building intelligence into electro optical sighting systems is a step that really only needs standardization and mass production to put it into the hands of the Joe Average Shooter. With laser ranging and adaptive optics, miniature transparent reflex displays, and photoreceptor devices that function on many wavelengths already a reality; the technology is not any sort of a leap, but is rather more a matter of integration and unit cost reduction.

Greg

 

[19818119]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

The only thing we can be sure of is that science will revolutionise shooting sports and combat as technology snowballs in different directions. There really should be a dedicated forum on this site (call it Mental Projectiles) that encourages ideas/suggestions as they relate to all areas of shooting. I am a huge believer in the wisdom of crowds and that even poor information takes us a step closer to solutions by way of eliminating itself.

There is a wealth of IP on this site that is not currently being tapped effectively.

rath

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

I would support such a dedicated discussion forum. I think about this stuff a lot. Sometimes as I nod off in bed, sometimes when I lie awake for awhile before it's time to get up. As a mental diversion, it's my kind of fun. I'd probably enjoy being able to brainstorm the various concepts with others.

 

[lostangel]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

We all are assuming that the world doesn't end in 2012 and that Hillary/Obama doesn't sight away our 2nd Amendment rights to the UN.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

A), the Universe gets along quite well all by itself, without the psuedo-importance mankind attaches to his philosophies and superstitions. On the cosmic time scale, humanity is just a rather recent and overly self-important blip.

End of the world? What world? The planet? Is the Moon involved? How about the Oort Cloud? The Milky Way Galaxy? The Local Galactic Group? Pardon my iconoclasm, but these questions <span style="font-style: italic">are</span> relevent.

For example, for all the importance we attach to the spiritual realm, just how well did it manage to get along before our ancestors descended from the trees?

B) As long as there are humans, there will always be firearms, despite the psychological wet dreams of politicians.

The only real question is whether the politicians will be brought back under reasonable control, or whether humankind really does prefer to be led around by rings in their noses. Personally, I'm hedging that bet. Maybe the machines <span style="font-style: italic">should</span> take over...

Somehow, I think there are natural limits to such trends, and we're about to see them get applied.

Again.

Greg

 

[GunGuru727]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: send it 77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEu9LLQpOF8

I just ordered one of these. I had mine upgraded and got the adjustable check piece and a BSA red dot for it.</div></div>

LOL!...Thats to funny

 

[JelloStorm]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

I wont be happy until:

 

[6Dasher]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

North Korea will be the new China, all weapons will be produced there to keep costs low. 7.62x39 ammo all around for easy/cheap sourcing as NK will also be the only ammo producer. Weapons still based on the AK platform, maybe with fancy rails and folding stocks.

 

[tomme boy]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

After the currant administration gets done with this country, this is going to be the only thing we are going to have. And this too will also have to be a registered item and pay a tax stamp to have. But only if you are a member of the Dem. party and a proclaimed Socialist.

 

[Bushmaster7]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

Extrapolation is always risky given potential new technologies we have not even considered yet; but would seem like the following mainly for the military and then LEO at first then some perhaps trickling down to the civilian populace if the 2nd amendment survives.

1. Directed Energy (i.e. Laser based, Particle beam, or a combination of the two) precision man portable weapon systems. Power source critical for same.

2. Kenetic rail gun type technology developed to the point of precision man portable type systems.

3. Non line of sight weapon systems involving an individual soldier and a dedicated UAV or near earth orbit drone uplink which would allow for precision fire anywhere on the battlefield from above.

 

[sosicmcise]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

I promise.

 

[badbot]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

rail guns using bio degradeable edible bullets with vitamins.
laser ranging and pip aim point.

 

[DaveV]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

50 to 100 years is not that long when you consider the service life of the M2 BMG. She's still in service and prolly will be for a good spell longer

 

[DaveV]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JelloStorm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wont be happy until:

</div></div>

Is that a Phase Plasma Rifle in the 40 watt range?

 

[paperairplane]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

Funny enough, my Glock fires ammunition developed in 1902.

I could see the M2 remaining in service for another 50 years.

 

[David 33]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

On the militaty side what about airdropped sensors that measure environmental factors that are synced on a GPS. Altitude, windspeed, direction, and distance into a palm or IPOD system that would update a dope sheet and every node would have a tag that would ID it and its position in relation to the target.

 

[DaveV]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

I think you'll see the human "stand off" distance increase and the non-human technology "close with" distance decrease. What we see EOD doing with robots now will spread into all aspects of the battle field. Robotic "snipers" will be common place at some point. Machines are less valuable than humans.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: paperairplane</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Funny enough, my Glock fires ammunition developed in 1902.

I could see the M2 remaining in service for another 50 years.
</div></div>
and 5 years after your ammo came out, the M1911 came out

The 1911 is a nice glimpse into what people feel about the future. I would bet anything that JMB would have thought that energy weapons of some such thing would be the choice of sidearms for combatants 100 years from when he first tooled up the 1911.......


If I had to guess I think the major change we will see for the precision rifleman will be semi's and do it all optics.

 

[BigBrother]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

Greg, I think your line "it's not rocket surgery, folks" has finally supplied me with a worthy quote for my sig

. Great, insightful posting in general.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

Well; I'd really like to see some serious discussions along these lines.

I think that whatever ideas are proposed should be discussed in (at least) the following two instances.

Would it work right now? If not, what issues would require resolution?

Greg

 

[cmh2007]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Breathe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Personally I would like to see every family car with a top mounter turret .50 cal. And yes that comes standard. We can add grenade launchers for the the low price of.....

It be nice to have a scope of some sort that you could laze a target and then have a computer in your scope find the correct trajectory for that perfect shot and let you know when to pull the trigger. Maybe even some economy size smart bullet that track once airborne. I will take 5000 rounds when they release them. </div></div>

hey, and my wife's honda already has the cutout in the roof for it.

 

[buffybuster]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

My guess would be electronically fired, caseless, telescoping ammunition with bullets made of sintered powder metal, possibly with proximity/impact fuses (military application, no fuses for the rest of us, if we still can have guns).

The military will probably have man portable, crew served (2 or 3-man) rapid fire KE railguns and some small vehicle mounted particle beam/energy weapons.

The railguns and beam weapons would have computer assisted aiming (kind of like image stabilizing but for the barrel) and maybe even for the smallarms.

I don't think there will be a primary optical sight on the weapon. I think it will displayed in a helmet/goggle display with automatic ranging, atmospheric adjustment, lead, etc... to provide a "best firing solution" aiming point. The Back Up sight will be an electro-optical unit mounted onto the weapon with some of the same functionality.

These devices won't need replaceable batteries, since they will be powered by the wearer's heat, movement and of course solar.

 

[lostangel]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

Unfortunately for buffybuster, none of these weapons will be allowed into California. Unless the laser burns a unique serial number into the target so it can be traced back to you.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: buffybuster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">..........if we still can have guns.
</div></div>

Spoken like a true Californian!

I think you've got valid points on all the electronics and all, but there will always be a need (if only for redundancy and backup) to have an optic or irons on the projectile launcher (if its a single man portable unit) to facilitate a human trigger jerker if need be.
Everything cannot be built hardened so that it is EMP proof.

 

[buffybuster]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

If there is an EMP, then it's going to be "fix bayonets" time.....

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

So this is to be the last word on the topic?

Disappointing...

 

[steelcomp]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

Conventional projectiles fired at near the speed of light.

 

[BigBrother]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So this is to be the last word on the topic?

Disappointing... </div></div>

Maybe it's time to start building?

 

[ArcticFun]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

I imagine war will turn out much like, wait for it, Halo. Well for weapons and such. There is no reason to fix something that isnt broke and a 5.56mm and 7.62mm are still going to kill someone just the same here in 100 years as they do now. I figure that the firearms are just going to be updated and such, more reliable, more accurate, easy to clean.

 

[shadow_sniper]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

I see us moving away from small are all together. I think it will go to the point of where soldiers strap themselves and into a mechsuit, there main weapon is some computer guided 20mm and the sides are shooting a .50 Beowulf.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: The far future of precision shooting rigs

Been looking at Black Chrome as an alternative to blueing, painting, and parkerizing. Apparently it ranges in shades from a dark shiny gray to an absolute pitch dark flat black. Unlike blueing, it is nonreactive to acids, etc.

Greg