The latest restoration at Schloss Nitrocellulose

[sirhrmechanic]

So here is the latest restoration... actually a pretty easy one.

This is called a Lyle Cannon. It's a gun used to shoot a line over a foundering ship in order to hook up a "Britches Bouy" and haul off the sailors. For those who have not seen pre-helicopter Coast Guard rescue operations, there is a reason that their motto was "You have to go out... you don't have to come back."

I don't know the exact date of this, but I actually think it is post-WW2, mainly because the eagle is looking at the olive branches (which I think was post-45). And because the frame is welded up, which seems to me to indicate an early-post-war production methodology. Early cannons were cast, but I suspect that the WW2 and post-war units were just made of plate. I'm researching now.

While I am at it... a huge THANK YOU to Decoy (Decoy11 on the Scout 'Hide) who went to Seattle to pick this up for me and who made a great crate and sent it to me. Not only has he been refusing any payment, he also sent me one of the 1911 barrels he makes as a gift (That's not how it's supposed to work.) Needless to say, I'll be sending him some very inadequate goodies from the Green Mountain Culinary establishment and also will say that his barrels are like jewelry for your guns! The barrel he sent me is a gain-twist for a 1911 and I already know that it will transform one of my stainless 1911's into a better shooter. I'll post a full review when I fit it up.

Anyway, I got everything beaded and cleaned up today but the barrel, only because my compressor crapped out at about 3:30. I'll replace the pop-off valve tomorrow and finish the barrel, readying it for paint.

Enjoy... more pictures coming as I get it enameled and reassembled.

Cheers,

Sirhr

Carriage as received. Mostly rust and crud. But the pattern for the original pinstriping is visible. I debated leaving it 'as is' but the finish was too far gone. Too much rust, crust and crud.

Barrel as received. No paint at all. Machine marks visible. Which is pretty cool. This is a steel barrel, turned from a single blank. Not a casting or a brass barrel. Trunnions are pressed in and bushed.

Barrel coller, touch-hole and the data plate. The Eagle was one of the reasons I wanted 'this' cannon. I loved the brass eagle!

4

Data plate. I have the bad dent out of it now, mostly. It's not perfect, but the scars look 'honest.' Like they were earned. I'll polish the plate

The eagle after restoration. Note that he is looking out over the olive branches, not the arrows. I believe that change was made post-1945, though during times of war, the eagle's head is turned back to face the arrows. Again, still trying to trace the date of this Line Cannon.

"Carriage" after bead blasting. Note the welding. This will be enameled a Navy Gray and the barrel will be black. That's the paint I found under various protected areas. And the pin striping is cool! That will be replicated on the final restoration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BW6NkeWH7-o

Last... and this is pretty cool... after shipping my Lyle Gun to me, Decoy mentioned it to a neighbor... who has one like it in his barn. And offered it to Decoy as soon as the snow melts! So in the end, we both get one!

How cool is that!

Thanks again, Decoy!

 

[AIAW]

Awesome. Amazing how well the eagle cleaned up!

If I remember correctly, these used a special black powder or is it just "off-the-shelf" BP? I know DuPont made a "life-saving" powder for these guns!

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[sirhrmechanic]

That's the stuff... life-saving powder. Basically a 1F cannon powder. But by putting it in a can for the Lyle guns, they made it easier for people who weren't 'artillery-trained' to know what to buy.

The original Lyle guns came with a brass powder container with a measure built in. I'm trying to find one now. Those are rarer than rocking-horse turds. I may have to make one.

Cleaning up pretty well! The carriage will be navy gray (I found some traces of original paint). Cannon barrel black. Lots of nice brass and copper, too. Going to look spectacular! And shoot like a champ.

Cheers,

Sirhr

Can do a Sig Line yet, so I will just post "License, Registration and Proof of Insurance, meow" for the time being.

 

[MarinePMI]

Pretty cool stuff there. Can't wait to see the final restoration pics!

 

[sandwarrior]

sirhr, Just to include some snobbery, it's "breeches buoy" not "britches buoy". I'd hate to see you get your pants blown off.

That is a pretty cool item once again. Very cool you bring this to us.

Added:
I read in the U.S. Heraldry that the Eagles head had always turned to look over the olive branch. It was in 1916 that Woodrow Wilson had it turned to point over the arrows. That was several months before the U.S. entered WWI. But, after the sinking of the Lusitania (and other shipping) that prompted us to join WWI. It was shortly after WWII that Harry Truman had it changed to look back over the arrows. He did make the comment when he presented it, that it was because we wanted to signify being a nation of peace. When Winston Churchill visted Truman when he was still Prime Minister, he stated that the Eagle's head ought to be on a swivel.

So, it isn't in time of war, it's always been turned over the olive branch, except for the period 1916-1945.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Interestingly enough, I found a date on the muzzle, right where it is supposed to be. 9/18/43. And an inspectors initials cartouche. This confirms my suspicions that this is a WW2 Navy or Coast Guard gun, as the fit and finish is really crude.

That said, the Eagle, as Sand mentions, indicates pre-1916 or post-1945. Also interestingly, this is the only Lyle I've ever seen with an eagle on it (which is why I bought it.) So there is a mystery here... and no question that the eagle is original. Soldered on.

And sorry about mis-spelling Breeches. Us damn country boys had britches. Breeches were for city boys. Or sailors, apparently.

Cheers,

Sirhr

P.S. The barrel will also be gray. Under the silver and the black... Navy Battleship Gray. "If it moves, salute it. If it don't move, paint it. Gray. -- Navy Motto."

 

[sandwarrior]

You know I'm just giving you a hard time about the spelling. Ha ha. Funny thing was I kept spelling buoy wrong. It kept coming up with the red underline. I swapped the o and u and all was good.

 

[pmclaine]

Slightly off topic...

Pretty sure the Phillipine flag is flown different ways to represent war and piece times.

Regards your new toy...when down on Cape Cod lots of life saving station photos feature line throwing cannon and the breeches buoy life saving apparatus.

Congratulations and be safe when launching your lines.

 

[bogeybrown]

Great project Sirhr! Am I rembering right that you'd gotten a line throwing cannon a few years ago? If so, is this the same one you've had for a while? Or am I completely losing my mind again? (Not that it's mutually exclusive).

How much powder will it take to launch the buoy from Tucker's kitchen over his pond for the SH Olympics?

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Hi Bogey.... No, didn't get a line throwing cannon a few years ago. I did, however, pick up a 25MM Hotchkiss Anti-tank... maybe that's what you are thinking about.

I have not even started to post pictures of the civil war Prairie Cannon I picked up on the UP of Michigan on Saturday. That's my newest project. Will be a few months to get it done. But we all need hobbies.

The powder load I *think* is 2 oz of Fg Line throwing powder.

As for launching... aren't we launching from the pond TO Tucker's Kitchen? I mean... it's a better target and why would he need to rescue anyone from his pond to his kitchen? Seems like a better bet to go the other way around? Just 'sayin.

Cheers,

Sirhr

Can't tell if taglines are working or now, so I'll just keep making them one at a timey.... Damn I'm loaded right now.

 

[bogeybrown]

Thanks buddy, I must have been thinking of the Hotchkiss. I remembered a previous cannon project and for some reason was thinking it was naval.

If you came all the way to the UP you should've stopped off to visit, I'd have made the run from Chicago up there with you. My gf has a lake house up that way that I haven't even visited yet.

As for Tucker's, I'm thinking a version of a MCLC to deliver a "line charge" of IPA from the house to those of us too lazy to get out of our inner tubes in the pond. I'll bring cases of 3Floyds for use once we have it dialed in. We can adjust fire with Natural Light until we get it right.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Bogey:

You might also have been thinking about the Gatling I finished last winter....

Here is the trail on my mill as I was getting the metalwork fitted. I posted a few pictures of the build last year.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[bogeybrown]

Wowzah!! I'm sure I'd have remembered the Gatling project. For some reason I'm thinking the project I'm remembering was before the Scout move, so maybe the Hotchkiss to which you referred?
There's very few folks with whom you get to have a "so which of your cannons.....?" conversations with I positively love this place!

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Paint has cured for a couple of weeks....

I assembled the Lyle gun today. It still needs pinstriping. But it's together! Looks great! Looks even better in person than in pictures. I think this is a 'living room' cannon!

Cheers,

Sirhr

Note the original powder rammer on the right....

This is a WW2 wartime Lyle. See the date on the muzzle. But it came out great in Navy grey and its brass lacquered.

Like I said... I think this is a living room cannon. Everyone needs a cannon in their living room, right?

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[gatorbait308]

I'm thinking a lite load of black powder and table salt for fly's .

 

[AIAW]

Lookin' good sir, lookin' good!

 

[bogeybrown]

Came out beautiful. A dumb question if you don't mind? I understand that's its nomenclature is a "Lyle Gun" correct? However, had it been designed to fire a projective instead of a line, wouldn't it be more along the lines of a mortar?

And yes, it definitely needs to be in the living room. Mrs Sirhr would totally understand.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Good question, Bogey! I actually came across this description yesterday while trying to research how to build a flaking box (for coiling the rope). And I thought it was the most succinct history I have yet read.



Line-throwing guns are most often referred to as Lyle Guns, after their inventor David A. Lyle. They were used from the late 19th century to 1952, when they were replaced by rockets for throwing lines.


History
A line-throwing gun is a short-barreled cannon designed to fire a projectile attached to a rope to a boat or victim in distress. Experiments in shooting tethered projectiles dates back to around 1800. A mortar device was credited with saving lives as early as 1850.

One of the first actions of Superintendent Sumner Increase Kimball, the only superintendent of the U.S. Life-Saving Service, was to find a better line-throwing device. Kimball realized he needed the best artillery expertise available, so he engaged the help of the Army Board of Ordnance and in 1877 they assigned David A. Lyle, First Lieutenant, U.S.A (1845–1937), a West Point and MIT graduate who began research and testing that resulted in reliable efficient designs. Lyle developed 3 bronze, smooth-bore guns of different sizes and the 2.5 nch-bore (64 mm) gun became the USLSS standard line-throwing gun.[SUP][1] [/SUP][SUP][2][/SUP]

Projectiles for the gun were made of cast iron with a wrought iron eye bolt screwed into the base as an attachment point for the shot line. The projectile for the 2 [SUP]1 [/SUP]⁄-inch (64 mm) gun was 15 [SUP]3 [/SUP]⁄ inches (400 mm) long and weighed 19 pounds (8.6 kg). It was placed into the 24-inch-long (610 mm) gun barrel so the eye bolt with the line attached was sticking out. After firing, the projectile rotated so that the eye bolt and line were trailing. The gun had a large recoil from firing. A standard charge of 1.5 ounces (43 g) of gunpowder would knock the gun back 6 feet (1.8 m). The maximum rescue charge of 8 ounces (230 g) would send the gun flying back even further.

The type of gunpowder used was also critical. It was a variation of black powder,uniform grain size, marketed as Hazard’s Life-Saving Service Powder and DuPont Life-Saving Powder.

Shotline was also just as critical to the accurate operation of the Lyle gun. Hemp line was found to be too brittle. Braided linen was usable, but it was too heavy with sea water after it was fired and had to be dried out before firing again. The best line was waterproofed braided linen. It cut through the air best and provided improved range. New lines were too stiff and were difficult to properly flake (to wind in a pattern so the line could be shot without getting tangled), so a new line needed to be fired several times to make it more flexible for flaking. One of the critical drills of the USLSS crew was flaking the line. If the first shot failed to go over the stranded ship, the line would have to be hauled in, reflaked, and shot again. An efficient flaking crew could minimize the time required to get ready for the second shot. On average, a crewman with two assistants could flake 700 yards (640 m) of line in about 25 minutes.

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Lyle gun, Shot line and flaking box

 

[Duc]

Lets see better pictures of that Flaking Box. How long did it take to build? How did you attach the dowels? Any Line yet?

Duc

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Hey Duc:

Have not built flaking box yet. That picture is from a museum. But I do have some good pictures of one and I plan on building one. One of the curators at a restored rescue station in NC has sent me some fantastic pix. So the flaking box will be a summer project. Tapering the dowels will be a PITA...

One of the bigger challenges is to find 700 yards of appropriate rope...

Cheers,

Sirhr