The Marine Corps wants yet another new sniper rifle

[Blackfoot 7]

The Marine Corps wants yet another new sniper rifle

"It's been less than a year after the Marine Corps's first new sniper rifle since the Vietnam War hit full operational capacity, and the service is already on the hunt for a brand new sniper system. The Marine Corps wants to procure 250 Advanced Sniper Rifles at $16,000 apiece for a total cost of $4 million, according to the service's fiscal year 2021 budget request. The ASR, developed by Barrett and originally adopted by U.S. Special Operations Command in March 2019, "will replace all current bolt-action sniper rifles" in the Marine Corps, according to the service's budget justification documents. Barrett's bolt-action Multi-Role Adaptive Design (MRAD) system — which allows the rifle to chamber 7.62×51mm NATO, .300 Norma Magnum, and .338 Norma Magnum rounds — features "extended range, greater lethality, and a wider variety of special purpose ammunition than current systems," according to the documents. The Corps's request for a new sniper system comes nearly two years after the service selected the Mk13 Mod 7 sniper rifle, chambered in .300 Winchester Magnum, as a much-needed and long-overdue replacement for the M40 sniper system that Marines have brandished since the Vietnam War. It's unclear what prompted the Corps to pick up a fresh rifle for long-range precision fires. The service previously announced in July 2018 that the Mk13 Mod 7 had reached full operational capacity earlier this year after extensive testing and would become available in both scout snipers and recon Marine arsenals. The ASR isn't the only fresh substitute in the Marine Corps budget request: the service also wants to pick up roughly 184 Semi Auto Sniper System (SASS) PIP designated marksman rifles for $1.5 million to replace the Compact Semi Auto Sniper System (CSASS) that it had requested in pervious budget documents. The reason? 'Through market research and discussion with industry, it was determined that a much better capability (specifically in range and lethality) than CSASS could be procured for a similar cost', according to the service's justification documents. Marine Corps Systems Command did not immediately respond to request for comment."

 

[Yoteski]

Honestly, it's such a drop in the bucket of the defense fund, if that's what the Marine Corps want, then they should get it. Any soldier should not "want" for anything if it keeps them safe and helps them accomplish their mission.

 

[G-Dog]

Four million sounds like a lot when compared to a personal bank account, but for a military branch it is budget dust, a rounding error. Heck, 4 million isn’t enough to get a full R&D team engaged for a new product. Hope it encourages some innovation and supports a good manufacturing company either way.

 

[cjs88]

I say give it to them. Imagine if the Marines had an Air Force or Navy level (not sure which is higher) budget.

 

[pmclaine]

Okay time to say quit fucking around and just buy the AI multi caliber deployment kit for fucks sakes.

Starting to look foolish.

All they are doing is fueling breathless posts here when their old guns get torn down and various parts are sold to us for clones.

 

[kthomas]

Okay time to say quit fucking around and just buy the AI multi caliber deployment kit for fucks sakes.

Starting to look foolish.

All they are doing is fueling breathless posts here when their old guns get torn down and various parts are sold to us for clones.

I agree.

The constant iterations of rifles is a waste of tax payers dollars. I don't like my tax being wasted and treated as one big slush fund for politicians to throw around all Willy nilly.

Pony up for the AI and be done with it.

 

[candyx]

Okay time to say quit fucking around and just buy the AI multi caliber deployment kit for fucks sakes.

Starting to look foolish.

All they are doing is fueling breathless posts here when their old guns get torn down and various parts are sold to us for clones.

Don't you want our Marines to win, why hamstring them with a weapon system design by some Bloody Bloke.

 

[_Windrider_]

I say give it to them. Imagine if the Marines had an Air Force or Navy level (not sure which is higher) budget.

Last time I checked Marines were under Department of Navy.

 

[fdkay]

Part of the problem here is the YEARS it takes to make the request, go over the proposals, get the financing approved etc...
The current system was probably originally requested before multi-caliber operability was a thought.

 

[SkyScrapin]

Look on the bright side: surplus NM brass and ammo.

 

[_Windrider_]

Look on the bright side: surplus NM brass and ammo.

The only surplus NM brass your gonna find is the stuff fired through the new SAW.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

IDGAF if they want a new rifle system every year, lol!!!!!

That is still cheaper than just the fuel budget for the USN Admirals (West and East Coast Commands) to fly around in their "personal" VIP P3 aircraft with a food budget greater than this solicitation.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[SkyScrapin]

The only surplus NM brass your gonna find is the stuff fired through the new SAW.

Adding that to the LMG wish list. Right next to the Dillon.

 

[_Windrider_]

Hi,

IDGAF if they want a new rifle system every year, lol!!!!!

That is still cheaper than just the fuel budget for the USN Admirals (West and East Coast Commands) to fly around in their "personal" VIP P3 aircraft with a food budget greater than this solicitation.

Sincerely,
Theis

Shoot, they using 737’s now.

 

[DukeGSP]

I feel pretty stupid for trusting Colt. Now I am a "dumbass"……..fading away for a while.

Honestly, it's such a drop in the bucket of the defense fund, if that's what the Marine Corps want, then they should get it. Any soldier should not "want" for anything if it keeps them safe and helps them accomplish their mission.

Rule number one, never refer to a marine as a "soldier". I mean you can, but I wouldn't recommend it. lol

the USMC is probably the least funded branch. compared to what the Army, Navy, and AF spend ,the marines are treated like the children from a third world orphanage. More than likely we will piggy back off what the Army goes with. 9/10 times we're the SICA on Weapon systems. there are pros and cons to that of course. also with the USMC only purchasing 250, this is probably a special request for MARSOC.

 

[pmclaine]

Don't you want our Marines to win, why hamstring them with a weapon system design by some Bloody Bloke.

300 WM is not the solution for every problem and I'm betting scores are likely to go down at the training ranges, misses will increase when it counts.

Afghanistan showed there was a need for more distance.

The next war will go back to inside 300 yard snap shooting.

Marine Corps needs to go back to getting cast offs and making them 1000 times more capable through sheer grit, determination and "Fuck you!" attitude.

They are not impressing me when Dad gives them the credit card.

 

[Arc Light]

$4 million for some state of the art gear, pfft. That's like what, 50 toilet bowl seats for the Navy?

 

[pmclaine]

Hi,

IDGAF if they want a new rifle system every year, lol!!!!!

That is still cheaper than just the fuel budget for the USN Admirals (West and East Coast Commands) to fly around in their "personal" VIP P3 aircraft with a food budget greater than this solicitation.

Sincerely,
Theis

Been spending time at WTB with some high speed New and innovative rifles perhaps?

 

[Yoteski]

Rule number one, never refer to a marine as a "soldier". I mean you can, but I wouldn't recommend it. lol

the USMC is probably the least funded branch. compared to what the Army, Navy, and AF spend ,the marines are treated like the children from a third world orphanage. More than likely we will piggy back off what the Army goes with. 9/10 times we're the SICA on Weapon systems. there are pros and cons to that of course. also with the USMC only purchasing 250, this is probably a special request for MARSOC.

I didn't, I'm painting with a broad brush. Again, anyone who serves in our armed forces deserves the best we can offer them.
I'd much rather see my tax dollars go to projects like this, rather than the millions of other bullshit programs that pad politicians pockets.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

 

[Blackfoot 7]

Afghanistan showed there was a need for more distance.

The next war will go back to inside 300 yard snap shooting.

We don't know that and can't plan for every contingency. That said, capability shouldn't be limited to what we think the next conflict will be like. Two decades into the GWOT and we were smart enough to eventually realize we need to focus more on developing a more agile and adaptive force that can make the transition from high intensity conflict, counter-insurgency or stability ops.

 

[_Windrider_]

Give me whatever they need or think they need. Just for the love of god don’t ask TH to be a part of it.

 

[M8541Reaper]

Give me whatever they need or think they need. Just for the love of god don’t ask TH to be a part of it.

I’m sure T-Rex Extremities will step up and get to running LR courses for CAG Raider SEAL Ninja SWAT HRT Snipers next quarter.

That being said, I don’t see why they don’t just do the AXMC or ASR and be done. Give em to every SSP, not just the cooler than cool HOGs who don’t look at explosions. After that, they need to address the issue of poor training ammo allotments and limited live range time. Honestly I think the MC needs to remove SSPs from BNs and put them under MARSOC, where they just get tasked to a deploying unit as a supporting asset. The life of a HOG would just be train, deploy, recover...which is how it’s supposed to be but never is across the board due to the differences between each BN. This would allow for a much better system of sharing lessons learned, increase the training capabilities/budgets, expand an SS team’s operational capabilities, and (most importantly) help with recruitment and retention. All the money and equipment in the world doesn’t matter if you can’t keep guys longer than an enlistment, which just results in the constant task of spinning up new guys.

For those aware of the other issues going on (AKA the recent convo in the Den), I think this would also help streamline the feedback process and allow for a shorter dwell time between reporting issues and seeing any movement from higher.

??‍?

 

[slothlacrosse]

Don't you want our Marines to win, why hamstring them with a weapon system design by some Bloody Bloke.

I don't know how giving them one of the best weapon systems available will hold them back.

But maybe you're right and it makes more sense to keep spending money on stopgap solutions while we wait for someone in the US to develop something that measures up to the AI.

 

[LeadZeke]

At least they are also trying to replace the CSASS at the same time too. That HK setup is a pretty poor choice compared to what is on the market.

 

[pmclaine]

We don't know that and can't plan for every contingency. That said, capability shouldn't be limited to what we think the next conflict will be like. Two decades into the GWOT and we were smart enough to eventually realize we need to focus more on developing a more agile and adaptive force that can make the transition from high intensity conflict, counter-insurgency or stability ops.

Which is why I disagreed with the idea 40s would be relegated to school duty and the WMs would be the only thing in the field.

Bernie bitches because we have too many choices in deodorant and gets pushback but we want snipers to have only one club in the golf bag which was bought based on info from the last course not the present course.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

I’m sure T-Rex Extremities will step up and get to running LR courses for CAG Raider SEAL Ninja SWAT HRT Snipers next quarter.

That being said, I don’t see why they don’t just do the AXMC or ASR and be done. Give em to every SSP, not just the cooler than cool HOGs who don’t look at explosions. After that, they need to address the issue of poor training ammo allotments and limited live range time. Honestly I think the MC needs to remove SSPs from BNs and put them under MARSOC, where they just get tasked to a deploying unit as a supporting asset. The life of a HOG would just be train, deploy, recover...which is how it’s supposed to be but never is across the board due to the differences between each BN. This would allow for a much better system of sharing lessons learned, increase the training capabilities/budgets, expand an SS team’s operational capabilities, and (most importantly) help with recruitment and retention. All the money and equipment in the world doesn’t matter if you can’t keep guys longer than an enlistment, which just results in the constant task of spinning up new guys.

For those aware of the other issues going on (AKA the recent convo in the Den), I think this would also help streamline the feedback process and allow for a shorter dwell time between reporting issues and seeing any movement from higher.

??‍?

This.

 

[RyanScott]

Rule number one, never refer to a marine as a "soldier". I mean you can, but I wouldn't recommend it. lol

the USMC is probably the least funded branch. compared to what the Army, Navy, and AF spend ,the marines are treated like the children from a third world orphanage. More than likely we will piggy back off what the Army goes with. 9/10 times we're the SICA on Weapon systems. there are pros and cons to that of course. also with the USMC only purchasing 250, this is probably a special request for MARSOC.

USMC has been well funded for some time. In many ways better than the Army.

8541, if you remove the SSPs from the BN, who does that job for the BN commander?

 

[DukeGSP]

USMC has been well funded for some time. In many ways better than the Army.

8541, if you remove the SSPs from the BN, who does that job for the BN commander?

just depends on the program. I work for the USMC in IW and we're normally almost always piggybacking off another contract. the USMC as whole is funded well but they prioritize their programs.

 

[pmclaine]

At least they are also trying to replace the CSASS at the same time too. That HK setup is a pretty poor choice compared to what is on the market.

While the bank is open.....

I guess its a moot point now as HK is the rifle of issue not just for the AR in the Fireteam but.......

Has the M60 ever been produced in 5.56?

No denying its based on the greatest general purpose MG ever invented except our engineers had to get cute with the gas/bipod/change assembly adding too much weight.

Actually scale that MFer down and build it in the latest LW configuration to provide the Fireteam with a true belt fed Automatic Rifleman option.

Keep the 240B as MWMG although going with latest M60 iteration would allow commonality of training/parts supplier.

M2 as HMG - still nothing better.

 

[Blackfoot 7]

Which is why I disagreed with the idea 40s would be relegated to school duty and the WMs would be the only thing in the field.

Bernie bitches because we have too many choices in deodorant and gets pushback but we want snipers to have only one club in the golf bag which was bought based on info from the last course not the present course.

Agreed. I'm all about having more than one option for whatever the mission calls for. It's ensuring guys get ample time and resources to train/cross-train for proficiency/mastery, which remains one of the lingering challenges. Annual or bi-annual qualification is and always has been insufficient. Our scout platoon snipers (Army) were equipped with the M24, M14 and M107. We didn't get the M110 (at least not during my time as a scout platoon sergeant), which I would've preferred since I always felt is was a better all-around DMR and can be adopted to multiple roles.

 

[pmclaine]

USMC has been well funded for some time. In many ways better than the Army.

I get that impression and have not been impressed.

When they had to cheap it out they came up with a good uniform design for peanuts compared to the Army fiasco but now that the piggy bank is open they seem to be just like the other services.

Much of what saved the Marine Corps post WWII was that they were literally great bang for the buck.

 

[M8541Reaper]

USMC has been well funded for some time. In many ways better than the Army.

8541, if you remove the SSPs from the BN, who does that job for the BN commander?

My apologies, I probably should have explained my ramblings a bit more.

Teams would get assigned to support deploying BNs. So let’s say 1/6 is preparing to deploy. A set number of teams would get assigned to deploy with that unit. They’d go over with them, provide support the BN, and then rotate back. meanwhile all AARs are getting cycled directly back to the elements in the training/work-up phase. I think the real benefits will stem from bringing all of the snipers together into a single sniper unit/command.

Deploying BNs would gain well equipped, better trained, more experienced, and motivated assets than an SSP that more than likely has been shit on by its BN and barely gets range/training time. BNCOs lose nothing but people to hate and have everything to gain.

Shit, make it a primary MOS that is exempt from a B Billet and I bet it would help retention as well. No fear of leaving a Plt just to go DI/Recruiter and not be guaranteed a spot back in an SSP after your 3yrs are over in purgatory. Combine that with letting snipers train they way they need and want to train, you’d probably have zero issues with retention and recruitment. ...all while providing a better quality product to BNCOs.

Just my .2 mils worth of an opinion.

 

[RyanScott]

Has the M60 ever been produced in 5.56?

No denying its based on the greatest general purpose MG ever invented except our engineers had to get cute with the gas/bipod/change assembly adding too much weight.

The MG3 has but what’s the point? The AR concept of mag fed auto in the squad works.

Keep the 240B as MWMG although going with latest M60 iteration would allow commonality of training/parts supplier.

Hell no. The 240B is great but the caliber is wrong. 6.5 would be better and there’s a place for 33-40 caliber.

M2 as HMG - still nothing better.

The gun itself is outdated. You can do what it does with a gun half the weight. The ammunition... Could go either way.

 

[RyanScott]

My apologies, I probably should have explained my ramblings a bit more.

Teams would get assigned to support deploying BNs. So let’s say 1/6 is preparing to deploy. A set number of teams would get assigned to deploy with that unit. They’d go over with them, provide support the BN, and then rotate back. meanwhile all AARs are getting cycled directly back to the elements in the training/work-up phase. I think the real benefits will stem from bringing all of the snipers together into a single sniper unit/command.

Deploying BNs would gain well equipped, better trained, more experienced, and motivated assets than an SSP that more than likely has been shit on by its BN and barely gets range/training time. BNCOs lose nothing but people to hate and have everything to gain.

Shit, make it a primary MOS that is exempt from a B Billet and I bet it would help retention as well. No fear of leaving a Plt just to go DI/Recruiter and not be guaranteed a spot back in an SSP after your 3yrs are over in purgatory. Combine that with letting snipers train they way they need and want to train, you’d probably have zero issues with retention and recruitment. ...all while providing a better quality product to BNCOs.

Just my .2 mils worth of an opinion.

You’d know better than I would and I like your case for it. The one thing I would worry about would be getting the SSP to do the BN COs Bidding. He’s going to have to be in their rating chain at some point.

 

[Blackfoot 7]

My apologies, I probably should have explained my ramblings a bit more.

Teams would get assigned to support deploying BNs. So let’s say 1/6 is preparing to deploy. A set number of teams would get assigned to deploy with that unit. They’d go over with them, provide support the BN, and then rotate back. meanwhile all AARs are getting cycled directly back to the elements in the training/work-up phase. I think the real benefits will stem from bringing all of the snipers together into a single sniper unit/command.

Deploying BNs would gain well equipped, better trained, more experienced, and motivated assets than an SSP that more than likely has been shit on by its BN and barely gets range/training time. BNCOs lose nothing but people to hate and have everything to gain.

Shit, make it a primary MOS that is exempt from a B Billet and I bet it would help retention as well. No fear of leaving a Plt just to go DI/Recruiter and not be guaranteed a spot back in an SSP after your 3yrs are over in purgatory. Combine that with letting snipers train they way they need and want to train, you’d probably have zero issues with retention and recruitment. ...all while providing a better quality product to BNCOs.

Just my .2 mils worth of an opinion.

Good luck with convincing BN cdr's to give up their organic recon assets. It would require significant restructuring and scout/recon platoons will still need to fall under a higher command for training support, logistics, budget, admin., etc.

 

[MarinePMI]

Part of the problem here is the YEARS it takes to make the request, go over the proposals, get the financing approved etc...
The current system was probably originally requested before multi-caliber operability was a thought.

This^^^^

The velocity of technology is faster than the acquisition process these days. Period.

 

[pmclaine]

My apologies, I probably should have explained my ramblings a bit more.

Teams would get assigned to support deploying BNs. So let’s say 1/6 is preparing to deploy. A set number of teams would get assigned to deploy with that unit. They’d go over with them, provide support the BN, and then rotate back. meanwhile all AARs are getting cycled directly back to the elements in the training/work-up phase. I think the real benefits will stem from bringing all of the snipers together into a single sniper unit/command.

Deploying BNs would gain well equipped, better trained, more experienced, and motivated assets than an SSP that more than likely has been shit on by its BN and barely gets range/training time. BNCOs lose nothing but people to hate and have everything to gain.

Shit, make it a primary MOS that is exempt from a B Billet and I bet it would help retention as well. No fear of leaving a Plt just to go DI/Recruiter and not be guaranteed a spot back in an SSP after your 3yrs are over in purgatory. Combine that with letting snipers train they way they need and want to train, you’d probably have zero issues with retention and recruitment. ...all while providing a better quality product to BNCOs.

Just my .2 mils worth of an opinion.

Might as well make them stand alone attached assets.

Im only familiar with STA Plt from my time in and though members were drawn from the BN once in STA they never seemed to be part of the BN anymore.

They became "special". They always wore PT shorts and seemed to be PTing. Never really can recall much specialized training unless it was to win Super Squad and that training was usually more PT.

Even more so than my own 0351 experience being attached to a line company as a Dragon gunner told to "just go dig your shit in over there until called for".....but hey what about avenues of approach, likely armor routes, etc.

 

[Blackfoot 7]

This^^^^

The velocity of technology is faster than the acquisition process these days. Period.

Did the rapid fielding initiative go away? Or was it never a USMC thing?

 

[MarinePMI]

Doesn't matter, "rapid" is a relative thing. I led an RTT that was very successful. It still took 4 years to become a formal PoR (Program of Record).

 

[pmclaine]

The MG3 has but what’s the point? The AR concept of mag fed auto in the squad works.


Hell no. The 240B is great but the caliber is wrong. 6.5 would be better and there’s a place for 33-40 caliber.


The gun itself is outdated. You can do what it does with a gun half the weight. The ammunition... Could go either way.

Every rifleman should have a mag fed full auto and be trained with ruthless discipline that there are very few reasons to use it. I want the AR to have a belt fed for not only those moments when controlled bursts are equired but he is slinging two hundred rounds at the point the rifleman is determining its the moment in time for him to flip his selector to Auto.

Caliber is a discussion of another magnitude. Sure lighter weight, flatter shooting has value but the disruption to the system would be such a shock the country would just fail. I mean McArthur chose .308 for fucks sake. He wanted to kill commies. By wanting to change you must be communist. You fuck.

The M2 is related to point 2. You will need to fold the space time continuum to get something other than .50 for HMG. I know there is stuff out there in .300WM being tested but seems to me that is for limited special use not general issue. For Christs sake we made the M2 self headspacing to keep you from blowing your head off now you ask for more?

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

Change the M2HB to the 20x42mm cartridge....barely a reduction in distance capabilities but a whole LOT more increase in "Bang"...in a shorter barrel, lighter system.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[RyanScott]

Every rifleman should have a mag fed full auto and be trained with ruthless discipline that there are very few reasons to use it. I want the AR to have a belt fed for not only those moments when controlled bursts are equired but he is slinging two hundred rounds at the point the rifleman is determining its the moment in time for him to flip his selector to Auto.

The weapons might be the same whether DM, Rifleman or Automatic Rifleman but the Soldier or Marine would assume a different role in the engagement.

Caliber is a discussion of another magnitude. Sure lighter weight, flatter shooting has value but the disruption to the system would be such a shock the country would just fail. I mean McArthur chose .308 for fucks sake. He wanted to kill commies. By wanting to change you must be communist. You fuck.

30-06 was questionable. 308 was a mistake.

The M2 is related to point 2. You will need to fold the space time continuum to get something other than .50 for HMG. I know there is stuff out there in .300WM being tested but seems to me that is for limited special use not general issue. For Christs sake we made the M2 self headspacing to keep you from blowing your head off now you ask for more?
[/QUOTE]
The M2 is too large and heavy for what it does and lacks a properly integrated sighting system for point targets. It’s ROF is cannon like but it lacks the penetration or explosive force of a cannon. Once hostile armored vehicles and fortifications were designed around defeating the 50, it occupied an awkward space. A 338 would be infinitely better against personnel. A 15-20mm better against barriers or vehicles. Where do we want to be with this?

Hi,

Change the M2HB to the 20x42mm cartridge....barely a reduction in distance capabilities but a whole LOT more increase in "Bang"...in a shorter barrel, lighter system.

Sincerely,
Theis

Unfamiliar with the cartridge but I’m guessing it holds a lot more explosive than 50 and that’s a good thing.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

And capable of operating out of a 16" barrel bolt action with no recoil issues, so putting into M2 system....

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[candyx]

I don't know how giving them one of the best weapon systems available will hold them back.

But maybe you're right and it makes more sense to keep spending money on stopgap solutions while we wait for someone in the US to develop something that measures up to the AI.

Come on Barrett been doing it for years already, word has it you can get good deals on AI's on the battlefield. Never been fired and only dropped once.

 

[SethB]

Teams would get assigned to support deploying BNs.

In my experience in the Army, when you put an MOS in the unit they get used and abused for every shit detail that comes up. When you take them out they get ignored and shuffled to the side.

Enablers that get attached during an exercise or deployment need to be trained in how to present their value proposition and make a case for their own employment.

 

[slothlacrosse]

Come on Barrett been doing it for years already, word has it you can get good deals on AI's on the battlefield. Never been fired and only dropped once.

Are you trolling me? Am I being trolled?!?!

 

[candyx]

Are you trolling me? Am I being trolled?!?!

Thought this was a gun forum not a fishing forum ???

 

[M8541Reaper]

You’d know better than I would and I like your case for it. The one thing I would worry about would be getting the SSP to do the BN COs Bidding. He’s going to have to be in their rating chain at some point.

A HOG is supposed to be trained in how to sell his capabilities to command elements, however a lot of commanders don’t give a shit what some SGT or SSGT has to say, nor do most conventional commanders know how to properly utilize their assets. That and the level of sales training isn’t always the same or that in-depth for everyone. You have some BNCOs who love snipers an do their best to give them what they need, be it equipment, training opportunities, and relative freedom on deployments. Then you have others who despise snipers, who treat them as nothing more than common grunts that aren’t provided any additional training opportunities, logistics/support for internal training/ranges, and/or disband them on deployments. As for the rating requirement, that is definitely a concern but could probably be worked out at the command level. Not saying my idea is the end all be all to the problems SSPs have faced over the years, just spitballing ideas that are semi-related to the post, as this restructuring would surely help alleviate the equipment issues lol.

Good luck with convincing BN cdr's to give up their organic recon assets. It would require significant restructuring and scout/recon platoons will still need to fall under a higher command for training support, logistics, budget, admin., etc.

True, but the SSPs would fall under MARSOC the same way each of the specialized elements do that are under that command. It would require a massive restructuring, but the MC can’t keep doing the same thing and expect their problem of recruitment and retention to be solved.
As I mentioned above, I think it’s a 50/50 toss up when it comes to BNCOs giving a shit about snipers. If BNs did care, there wouldn’t be (as much of) a problem getting guys to stay in.

Might as well make them stand alone attached assets.

Im only familiar with STA Plt from my time in and though members were drawn from the BN once in STA they never seemed to be part of the BN anymore.

They became "special". They always wore PT shorts and seemed to be PTing. Never really can recall much specialized training unless it was to win Super Squad and that training was usually more PT.

Even more so than my own 0351 experience being attached to a line company as a Dragon gunner told to "just go dig your shit in over there until called for".....but hey what about avenues of approach, likely armor routes, etc.

That’s exactly what I’m promoting. You’re going to be shit on by BNs anyways, why not at least ensure that they have the best opportunity to excel? BNCOs rotate out fairly frequently, so while 3/6 might have a great BNCO today, tomorrow they might have one that treats them like shit. Then give it a year or so and boom, a new one comes in and it starts all over. Most people serving in the military don’t do more than 4yrs, regardless of MOS. Most USMC grunts, definitely don’t do more than 4. The lessons learned during those years, which are usually about two, unless you’re a STA Baby, must then be passed on to the entire community, not just your own Plt.

So we’ve always had the issue of fluctuating BNCO/SSP success, with SSPs learning through trial and error on how to best adjust their sales pitches. The issue becomes a lack of instantaneous and collective sharing those sales tips with the entire SS community. Sure you have the HOGs Den and the occasional cross table talk while at schools, but putting them all under one roof would allow for that instant and widespread discussion of what worked and didn’t work for them when selling to themselves to a certain commander. The goal being every single sniper being not only a well rounded master of his craft, but also that well-rounded professional salesman. If you can’t sell your product to the most stubborn of clients, then you’re not going to be as effective. If you’re not effective, then you’re a liability.

End of the day, the BNCOs remain the clients and the HOGs still fulfill the mission of being their eyes, ears, and trigger.

EDIT:
@SethB Sorry, forgot to hit reply to tag yours in as well. However I think the above covers the sales point you made.

 

[Reverie Ranges]

Write your local Congressman/Congressswoman to introduce a new bill that states: Any precision rifle replaced from active Military service MUST be released to the CMP for immediate distribution to foster competitive shooting...