Night Vision The Official: Steiner C35 Thermal Clip-on Review and User Thread!

[pangris]

So what is wrong with just using the Burris mount. Doesn't it align and work fine with traditional 1-6 lpvos, which I thought was the preferred magnificent range anyways? Is it solely the larger 56mm optics that's the issue?

anything over 30-32mm tube is a no-go. ACOG doesn't work well.

I use it with a clamp on with a 3-18x50 with great success - and medicore repeatability. Its essentially a confirmation of zero and tweak almost every time if you're expecting precision. Its a shame because it is capable of 8-10X resolution due to the screen having better than typical resolution.

 

[Tall Pine]

I dont get the lack of repeatability. With a clamp on dont you use the lpvo crosshairs (which should be solid and repeatable)? Or do you have to use the thermal's crosshairs because the lpvo's crosshairs are hidden due to the darkness?

 

[tam4511]

I dont get the lack of repeatability. With a clamp on dont you use the lpvo crosshairs (which should be solid and repeatable)? Or do you have to use the thermal's crosshairs because the lpvo's crosshairs are hidden due to the darkness?

The C35 is not collimated, so any shift or difference in mounting will cause a poi shift/difference.

 

[Tall Pine]

The C35 is not collimated, so any shift or difference in mounting will cause a poi shift/difference.

Thanks tam, I guess I need to educate myself. I just thought the thermal was a pass through situation, and the magnified scope reticle would just super-impose in front of the thermal display, and the poi would be dictated by just the scope, not the thermal. It seems you are saying that the thermal image itself can move around. Makes sense (I guess).lol

Thanks

 

[kombayotch]

Thanks tam, I guess I need to educate myself. I just thought the thermal was a pass through situation, and the magnified scope reticle would just super-impose in front of the thermal display, and the poi would be dictated by just the scope, not the thermal. It seems you are saying that the thermal image itself can move around. Makes sense (I guess).lol

Thanks

Even if the screen on the back and the camera/lens on the front of the thermal were perfectly aligned, the thermal would also need to be colinear with the scope. It isn't just the up/down/left/right position that matters, it's the angle the thermal sits at. Non-repeatability with clamp mounts is likely caused by inconsistent angular alignment during installation. The attachment point is at the back of the thermal, which is far away from it's front lens. You have a long tube being held out at one end. A very small angular misalignment will cause an offset.

Here is an exaggerated depiction:

 

[kombayotch]

I use it with a clamp on with a 3-18x50 with great success - and medicore repeatability. Its essentially a confirmation of zero and tweak almost every time if you're expecting precision. Its a shame because it is capable of 8-10X resolution due to the screen having better than typical resolution.

When you install it, is the rifle oriented horizontally or vertically (muzzle to the sky)? It might be more repeatable if installed with the muzzle pointing towards the sky since the thermal won't be putting any torque on the mount. If there is an internal face on the mount, make sure it's shouldering on the end of the objective bell.

 

[pangris]

I usually zoom in to reference an individual pixel, but I still don't REALLY trust it till I verify it.

With good reference marks, you'll be minute of pig out to 150-200, but minute of coyote at 300 - not so much.

Suffice to say it is a back up and I've gotten to the point I really only use it if I want the extra velocity of my 20" over a 12.5" due to being on a pipeline or field where I expect 200+ yard shots to be a probability.

 

[kombayotch]

Referencing a pixel isn't going to give any indication of angular alignment since the screen is at the back near at the mounting point. I think the only way to get consistent angular alignment is to have the mount shoulder on the objective bell squarely when the clamp is tightened. Think of it like a suppressor. If the suppressor is loose, the entry hole is still aligned with the bore, but the exit hole may not be. Tightening the suppressor against the shoulder squares it up so that the exit hole is aligned. It's the sensor/lens being inconsistently aligned that is causing the lack of repeatability.

 

[carbonbased]

The C35 gen 2 is able to be consistently mounted to the scope bell using the Praezise-Jagen mount, at least according to @35L4S SOTIC
https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...ed-9-30-with-third-hunt.7214576/post-11994270

He also has a short review on that page.

I found that you can use a Praezise-Jagen adapter to turn the unit into a scanner in 2 sec here:
https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...ed-9-30-with-third-hunt.7214576/post-12011542
That vid also gives a great overview of how the Praezise-Jagen mounts work.

Personally, for bolt guns (esp on regular stocks, or even a KRG Bravo) the scope bell mount seems to involve the least fuss. But I’ve never used a thermal, let alone the different mounts.

 

[carbonbased]

Not sure if it’s been discussed on this thread, but these guys are in the process of making a pic mount for gen 2.

https://annexdefense.com/steiner-nighthunter-gen-ii-picatinny-rail-mount/

That mount was also discussed in the link in my prev post.

 

[kombayotch]

The C35 gen 2 is able to be consistently mounted to the scope bell using the Praezise-Jagen mount, at least according to @35L4S SOTIC
https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...ed-9-30-with-third-hunt.7214576/post-11994270

The bayonet isn't just for convenience, it's providing a shouldering interface when it locks up to maintain angular alignment. Since they aren't removing the clamp part, it maintains planar alignment. This makes sense.

 

[carbonbased]

The bayonet isn't just for convenience, it's providing a shouldering interface when it locks up to maintain angular alignment. Since they aren't removing the clamp part, it maintains planar alignment. This makes sense.

Yeah, like a camera lens mount.

 

[grinning]

Not sure if it’s been discussed on this thread, but these guys are in the process of making a pic mount for gen 2.

https://annexdefense.com/steiner-nighthunter-gen-ii-picatinny-rail-mount/

That mount was also discussed in the link in my prev post.

Yeah it’s been discussed a couple pages back. It’s a welcome step forward, but the fact that it’s not QD is a bit bewildering. I mean, without repeatable quick-detach I just would’ve purchased a thermal scope, not a clip-on lol. As I mentioned, I’m looking at integrating an ADM QD lever assembly into the Annex mount, or perhaps just putting the Annex mount on a Larue QT110. Bad solution, but maybe the best we can get until someone implements something better. The idea posted on the last page with the CAD mockup is great, I thought of something similar, and wish someone had done that.

 

[carbonbased]

Yeah it’s been discussed a couple pages back. It’s a welcome step forward, but the fact that it’s not QD is a bit bewildering. I mean, without repeatable quick-detach I just would’ve purchased a thermal scope, not a clip-on lol. As I mentioned, I’m looking at integrating an ADM QD lever assembly into the Annex mount, or perhaps just putting the Annex mount on a Larue QT110. Bad solution, but maybe the best we can get until someone implements something better. The idea posted on the last page with the CAD mockup is great, I thought of something similar, and wish someone had done that.

Ok about the Annex mount. But what about the Praezise-Jagen…that’s QD.

 

[kombayotch]

Someone needs to import the Praezise-Jagen products!

Even a screw knob would at least make the Annex picatinny mount QD.

Or maybe this kind of lever:

You can index them, they're like a small pod-loc.

 

[pangris]

I'm intrigued on one hand, and concerned due to the low hanging side 18650's it wouldn't work with the 45 degree throw over a typical rail on a 50mm objective.

With that said, I would LOVE to be wrong, that would be a real game changer for me. I'm not mad at my NOX at all, but if I could leave my 20" on the tripod and put a totally repeatable thermal optic on, I think I would usually default to that option.

 

[-H-]

I dont get the lack of repeatability. With a clamp on dont you use the lpvo crosshairs (which should be solid and repeatable)? Or do you have to use the thermal's crosshairs because the lpvo's crosshairs are hidden due to the darkness?

On the Gen I, you can input a shift correction for up to 3 gun profiles. I ensure that I mount it in the same place each time and have not experienced any shift.

I clip it on, select the profile for the gun and confirm on steel at dusk. No issues with shift between mounting and unmounting so far.

 

[pangris]

When clipping onto a rail, we don't see more than 1 MOA of shift and typically less than that.