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The Scale of the Universe
- Thread starter ssgp2
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My brain melted twice while looking at that. Once going all the way in, then the mush that was left melted going all the way out. Words really will never be able to explain how magnificent the universe is.
G
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And how many of those exist in the next thing?
That's my point. When did they change the rules and decide that the Universe wasn't everything. I understand your answer. It's still bullshit.
I guess, finding out that over 90% of what is in our universe is eluding us.
Dark energy and dark matter forces us to reevaluate everything that we took for granted.
Very few scientist understand quantum mechanics, yet the principles work and will be part of the next generation of computers.
I find very stimulating that nature hasn't revealed all it's secrets and humble us in it's complexity.
Dark energy and dark matter forces us to reevaluate everything that we took for granted.
Very few scientist understand quantum mechanics, yet the principles work and will be part of the next generation of computers.
I find very stimulating that nature hasn't revealed all it's secrets and humble us in it's complexity.
One has to be ignorant to believe that we are the only life within the universe, and a narcissist to believe that one entity created all of this solely for us, so he could convince us to 'follow him' into eternity. Enjoy the beauty which is life, because you get one shot to enjoy it, and then you are recycled whether you want to be or not.
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"one entity created all of this solely for us, so he could convince us to 'follow him' into eternity"
So this is secular?
So this is secular?
We cannot go down this road without crossing over the rules, but yes it is. PM if you'd like to continue.
Actually, there are those who hold the view that there is a way to avoid the "recycle". Its entirely non religious, but I wont go into it here. If your interested in some info that can point you toward an interesting read pm me.
My dad once told me that all we really need concern ourselves with are the things we can actually do something about. Of the many things he told me this one is the one about which I am most uncertain. I suspect that the Explorer Gene may be more emphatically expressed in myself then it was in him.
I am one of those guys who watches those science channel and discovery channel shows about the universe and experimental physics over and over again. It appears to me that each time I watch, another of those hypotheticals I could not accept suddenly makes better sense. I still can't grasp whether I am being educated or brainwashed.
But the wonder of all this seems to become greater to me each time as well.
I am still in the doubter's stage about dark matter/energy, string theory, and those 11 dimensions. I think that black holes/singularities are far from being completely explained, and may have more bearing on the dynamic nature of the Universe's scale. I think that Einstein has already (very recently) been proved wrong about light speed's immutability, and with it, possibly, the utter dependence on the hypothesis that red shift infallibly implies a universe in the throes of accelerated expansion. I believe that the greatest single stumbling block to the advancement of knowledge is humanity's manic compulsion to cling to past work and endow it with the attribute of infallibility. The more we learn in the current moment, the more we also learn that what was prologue was at least somewhat flawed.
Reality is both simpler and more complex than we, as a species, have yet to grasp.
As an elder fart, I recognize that my ability to enjoy the advancement of these areas of knowledge is going to fall short of those who are younger than I. It bothers me less and less as I more firmly grasp the concept of my own mortality.
Should I, pray tell, end up on a plane where all questions are truly answered, I think I'm going to like what I find.
Greg
I am one of those guys who watches those science channel and discovery channel shows about the universe and experimental physics over and over again. It appears to me that each time I watch, another of those hypotheticals I could not accept suddenly makes better sense. I still can't grasp whether I am being educated or brainwashed.
But the wonder of all this seems to become greater to me each time as well.
I am still in the doubter's stage about dark matter/energy, string theory, and those 11 dimensions. I think that black holes/singularities are far from being completely explained, and may have more bearing on the dynamic nature of the Universe's scale. I think that Einstein has already (very recently) been proved wrong about light speed's immutability, and with it, possibly, the utter dependence on the hypothesis that red shift infallibly implies a universe in the throes of accelerated expansion. I believe that the greatest single stumbling block to the advancement of knowledge is humanity's manic compulsion to cling to past work and endow it with the attribute of infallibility. The more we learn in the current moment, the more we also learn that what was prologue was at least somewhat flawed.
Reality is both simpler and more complex than we, as a species, have yet to grasp.
As an elder fart, I recognize that my ability to enjoy the advancement of these areas of knowledge is going to fall short of those who are younger than I. It bothers me less and less as I more firmly grasp the concept of my own mortality.
Should I, pray tell, end up on a plane where all questions are truly answered, I think I'm going to like what I find.
Greg
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That's a very inspiring video, thanks!
Which "screams" intelligent design from beginning to end - not happenstance.
Which "screams" intelligent design from beginning to end - not happenstance.
If it's so intelligent than why is 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of it hostile to human life?
Because we weren't designed but to live in but .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of it and in that % of our universe we obviously do just fine. Some might call that grace.
If it's so intelligent than why is 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of it hostile to human life?
Some would argue that chlorine is necessary in the pool.
Some would argue that chlorine is necessary in the pool.
Science keeps making progress. It's the good part about it. Once they realize there is more information available, they can update their hypothoses. Adding dimensions to scientific thought isn't so bad. Einstein had to do it in order for relativity to work, and it wasn't confirmed until years later during a solar eclipse, now we have our 4th dimension; spacetime.
I'm rather fond of one of the newer ideas that we were originally microbes from mars that escaped the martian atmosphere after a large meteor impact and got flung to earth, it's called Panspermia.
I think what Tucker is objecting to is the concept of multi universes when what he and I consider as "The Universe" (literally meaning ...one word), contains all that is...therefore the concept of a multiplicity of them is an oxymoron in and of its self. Correct me if Im wrong, Tucker.
I do not know when they changed it. I remember when the universe included everything, except perhaps the mind of god, but they did change it. Now the universe is just everything that came from our big bang. If other bangs happened elsewhere, in space or in different dimensions then they are currently thought of as different universes.
Well there is hope for us after all. We will finally be smart enough to create another universe to slide over to when all the thermonuclear energy runs out in ours.
Way to difficult an explanation of the singularity. By my interpretation, as everything is sucked into the (near) absolute gravity of a black hole, it is compressed to its most elemental state. But all that energy has to go somewhere so it warps the very fabric of the universe and spits the broken down matter/energy out into another sector as the most elemental atomic structure, the hydrogen atom...thus the huge fields of floating hydrogen gas which slowly begin to spin and coalesce into matter, then stars then planets, expanding until they reach their limit then begin contracting, forming black holes which sucke everything in and another cycle .....
Maggotonian Physics 101
I think this is actually referred to as the "big crunch", and is one theory of universal creation/destruction.
What I also find very interesting is the opposite of the big crunch, the "big rip". Because the expansion of our universe is actually accelerating, the big rip takes this to the extreme. The implications of unrestrained expansion are mind boggling.
At some point, the universe will expand at such a speed that we won't (if we're still around) be able to see far away galaxies because they will be traveling away from us at a speed greater than the speed of light.
Next, we won't be able to see our local group as it too will be expanding so quickly that we will lose sight of it as well.
The Sun, Saturn, Venus, etc will all be lost to sight and eventually the elementary particles that make up all we know will themselves be "ripped" (hence, big rip) apart by the expansion of our universe.
Nuts, huh?
G
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Guest
I don't have a problem with that. I have a problem with them changing the meaning of the word Universe.
Once they figured out there was more something (or nothing) out there, they should have come up with new names for the shit (or lack of shit) that's between what they thought was everything then and what they think is everything now.
Made sense when I typed it.
G
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Guest
Universe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"The Universe is commonly defined as the totality of existence"
then....
"There are various multiverse hypotheses, in which some physicists have suggested that the Universe might be one among many universes that likewise exist" <---- Those fuckers!
Looks to me like some think it's one thing and others say it's everything.
I guess it's like magazine and clips. If you get enough people using it, then the wrong thing becomes the thing that everyone says, and then it's the right thing.
"The Universe is commonly defined as the totality of existence"
then....
"There are various multiverse hypotheses, in which some physicists have suggested that the Universe might be one among many universes that likewise exist" <---- Those fuckers!
Looks to me like some think it's one thing and others say it's everything.
I guess it's like magazine and clips. If you get enough people using it, then the wrong thing becomes the thing that everyone says, and then it's the right thing.
G
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If the universe is connected to another universe via an "umbilical cord" or a black hole leading to a white hole, what is the area surrounding all of it called? I suggest a Victory Universe, I like the way it sounds.
I just can't grasp nothing being surrounded by nothing, but dark matter is allowing me to slowly. It all seems to have the same issue though, "infinite space" I call it. Each universe is a tiny bubble, but what is suspending or surrounding those bubbles? Is there a "darker matter" that makes up the space beyond the multiverse; then what beyond that?
It's times like these that I wish I would have paid more attention in my English class, I'm awful at conveying my thoughts with written words. So if none of this makes any sense, my bad.
I just can't grasp nothing being surrounded by nothing, but dark matter is allowing me to slowly. It all seems to have the same issue though, "infinite space" I call it. Each universe is a tiny bubble, but what is suspending or surrounding those bubbles? Is there a "darker matter" that makes up the space beyond the multiverse; then what beyond that?
It's times like these that I wish I would have paid more attention in my English class, I'm awful at conveying my thoughts with written words. So if none of this makes any sense, my bad.
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You are referring to the singularity's surrounding black holes. Black Hole singularity's are a type of singularity. They have a Event Horizon, that is the point where gravity is so strong that not even light can escape. It is called the Event Horizon because a theoretical observer sitting just outside of it could not observe events inside, because no light or information crosses back over.
I link to a discussion to a different kind of Singularity, with a different kind of Event Horizon. http://www.kurzweilai.ne/the-technological-singularity This singularity is based on the acceleration of technological progress. It's basic therom is a extension of Gordon Moore's law. To vastly over simplify, soon computers will exceed human intelligence, at that point computers will be designing faster and better computers at a incredible pace. These computers will quickly solve all of humanities problems and develop new technologies to serve us. Life will be so different at this point that we can not fully appreciate all of those differences from here. Thus in a sense we are standing just beyond a kind of event horizon. Some visionaries call the development of a computer that exceeds human intellect in all respects "The Singularity" for that reason.
If I can not explain it well enough, please follow the link. Read it long enough and you will see that some have a plan to fill the universe with intelligence.
uni-
combining form
combining form
- 1.
one; having or consisting of one.
"unicellular"
verse
vərs/<input src="data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAABAAAAAQCAYAAAAf8/9hAAAAcUlEQVQ4y2P4//8/AyUYQhAH3gNxA7IAIQPmo/H3g/QA8XkgFiBkwHyoYnRQABVfj88AmGZcTuuHyjlgMwBZM7IE3NlQGhQe65EN+I8Dw8MLGgYoFpFqADK/YUAMwOsFigORatFIlYRElaRMWmaiBAMAp0n+3U0kqkAAAAAASUVORK5CYII=" height="16" type="image" width="16" style="height: 16px; width: 16px;">
noun- 1.
writing arranged with a metrical rhythm, typically having a rhyme.
"a lament in verse"
verbarchaic
- 1.
speak in or compose verse; versify.
- 1.
G
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Guest
Again, I fully understand his concept, but in my opinion, they stole the word Universe, when they actually should have come up with a new word to describe the soap bubbles.
The Universe is all there is, all there was, and all there ever will be. The soap bubble, and the bathtub ring for that matter, all exist within the concept of the Universe, which is undefined and infinite.
That's good. My dogs here, they KNOW I control the weather, and all things about them. Heh, heh, heh.
When 'zooming all t he way in', we see the spherical components of matter. When 'zooming all the way out', we see the spherical components of "something else's" matter.
Enjoy your Bourbon.
I thought you did too!?!?!?!
As regards to the name of "Universe" the "Multiverse" is a different way to explain an aspect of the "Universe." Science still uses the term "Universe" on a regular basis to describe the totality of physical existense in space. When talking about the other "layers" of existence (like M Theory) that is typically when the "Multiverse" description is used. Like Planet is a description of Earth, while earth is also a commonly used synonym for dirt. They are used at different points to describe with as much detail is needed.
In short, I don't think they changed what it meant (it's still everything) I think they changed the detail to which we understand it.
As regards to the name of "Universe" the "Multiverse" is a different way to explain an aspect of the "Universe." Science still uses the term "Universe" on a regular basis to describe the totality of physical existense in space. When talking about the other "layers" of existence (like M Theory) that is typically when the "Multiverse" description is used. Like Planet is a description of Earth, while earth is also a commonly used synonym for dirt. They are used at different points to describe with as much detail is needed.
In short, I don't think they changed what it meant (it's still everything) I think they changed the detail to which we understand it.
We don't even know where (locationally) the big bang happened yet. At the accepted time of 13.7 billion years ago, if it was farther away than that we wouldn't have been able to see it yet as the light has not reached us yet. We have an 80 something light year range we can see aorund us depending on the direction of travel of the observed objects. It's this observalbe Universe that cosmologists and physisicts call the "Cosmic Horizon."
I typed down these ideas kinda shaky, I'm actually in the beginning of Brian Greene's book on multiple universes; "The Hidden Reality: Parallel Universes and the Deep Laws of the Cosmos" and I don't know if I've fully gotten my head around it.
80 something light years huh? Observable vs. unobservable universe has to do with the speed of light, that light which is traveling away from us cannot be observed. So there is a "ring" where you can only see so far. The actual big bang itself is absolutely unobservable for a few reasons, this being one of them. But we can see back 13.7 billion years, so I don't get where 80 came from. We can go pretty far back, just not all the way. And we never will be able to either, it's considered a singularity.
Bigger than we think it is... We just found the single largest "thing" in the entire universe. It turns out galaxies cluster around these dark matter veins, kinda like invisible webs, and also turns out we're part of it. A huge, many, many light year long cluster of many, many galaxies. Wow. Another interesting find is this "cold spot" that's enormous and colder than any other region of space, right on the edge of the cosmic map. No good reasons pop up as to why, it's a total mystery. Some think it's where two bubbles, two universes attach and gravity over there is stronger and pulled shit from over here. Nobody really knows.
So much mystery, so much, well, magic. It's still magical for me. I know the math and I know the science but still... And all we can ever do is scratch the surface within our lifetimes. The universe is absolutely magnificent.
One picture everyone should see before they die, most important picture to man, the Hubble Deep Field Image:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/Hubble_deep_field.jpg
You can search for other images too, bigger or clearer ones, but what it is was an image taken by Hubble of a small dot of dark space where there are no stars. What they expected was empty space, what they got was this. The image shows that no matter where you look, if you zoom out far enough and there aren't any obstructions along the way, then you'll find galaxies upon galaxies. Yeah, each dot of light is actually a galaxy, all at varying distances, some up close, some billions of light years away. It's easily the single most important picture belonging to mankind. It's beauty, awesome, the scale is magnificent, it's just mind blowing and gives an idea as to how much really is out there --and it's a LOT.
Bigger than we think it is... We just found the single largest "thing" in the entire universe. It turns out galaxies cluster around these dark matter veins, kinda like invisible webs, and also turns out we're part of it. A huge, many, many light year long cluster of many, many galaxies. Wow. Another interesting find is this "cold spot" that's enormous and colder than any other region of space, right on the edge of the cosmic map. No good reasons pop up as to why, it's a total mystery. Some think it's where two bubbles, two universes attach and gravity over there is stronger and pulled shit from over here. Nobody really knows.
So much mystery, so much, well, magic. It's still magical for me. I know the math and I know the science but still... And all we can ever do is scratch the surface within our lifetimes. The universe is absolutely magnificent.
One picture everyone should see before they die, most important picture to man, the Hubble Deep Field Image:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/Hubble_deep_field.jpg
You can search for other images too, bigger or clearer ones, but what it is was an image taken by Hubble of a small dot of dark space where there are no stars. What they expected was empty space, what they got was this. The image shows that no matter where you look, if you zoom out far enough and there aren't any obstructions along the way, then you'll find galaxies upon galaxies. Yeah, each dot of light is actually a galaxy, all at varying distances, some up close, some billions of light years away. It's easily the single most important picture belonging to mankind. It's beauty, awesome, the scale is magnificent, it's just mind blowing and gives an idea as to how much really is out there --and it's a LOT.
This is exactly how I envision it. And for the record I'm not looking forward to this "singularity" event. Doesn't seem like a good idea to me. Anyone ever seen Terminator, or The Matrix? This shit scares me. What doesn't scare me is the knowledge that something/someone loves me enough that I don't have to worry too hard. Good day gentlemen.
I think the word multiverse describe "worlds" that are totally different than our's, were physics has nothing to do with what we know or understand.
Universe describe our "world".
I understand your problem with what universe should mean, but if I take your approach, how would you call the other "universe" and our's?
Universe describe our "world".
I understand your problem with what universe should mean, but if I take your approach, how would you call the other "universe" and our's?
First off, great explanation and link to the deep space field photo.
Secondly, I was TOTALLY wrong about the 80 something light years. I looked it up and it's 41 billion light years. The distance is greater than the 13.7 bilion because; well I'll quote Briane Greene directly here because I'm bad at paraphrasing, "...the expansion of space increases the distance to objects whose light has long been traveling and has only just been received; so the maximum distance we can see is actually longer - about 41 billion light-years." -- Brian Greene, page 28 paragraph 1, "The Hidden Reality."
It's pretty crazy. Anyone else read Greene? Perhaps Hawking, Mlodinow, Kaku, etc? I'm not a scientist by any stretch of the imagination, but I find it all terribly interesting and confusing. Thats why I like these authors, because they break down the complexity into easier to understand ideas so that normal Joes can understand the material.
I find the multiverse designation a better way to describe our lack of knowledge and awesomeness of the "world" we live in.
Plus, when I tell the girlfriend that my love for her is as big as the universe, I'm good till she finds out we live in a multiverse...
Plus, when I tell the girlfriend that my love for her is as big as the universe, I'm good till she finds out we live in a multiverse...
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The coolest part is that there is no real scale for the Universe. All of what we know could be no larger in relative scale than the head of a pin.
Yea. Sizes that we literally cannot conceive of. If the universe is infinite, with a finite number of combinations of matter, the math suggests that per every 10 to the 122 power (10^122 is 1 followed by 122 zeroes, or a googol multiplied by a quadrillion) light years the specific set of perameters that make our local universe is mathematically required to repeat itself. Thus; Multi-Verse.
I'm lucky to count to 21 when I'm naked, so I couldn't begin to check the math, but the other side of the arguments suggest that in a finite universe, the math could repeat itself, but isn't statistically required to.
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