The single all-around rifle?

#51
Re: The single all-around rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swamper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> 77gr .223 will work fine if you place your shot correctly, and your rifle is setup for precision shot placement, so why would you gut-shoot or only maim your target?

</div></div>

75 grain .223 doesn't do much to deer. It kills them, but there will be tracking involved unless you break both shoulders or spine/head shot them. Broke a deers shoulder at 400 yards with a 75grain .223 and the deer ran 300 yards across a field and into the woods. I've had better luck with 60 grain VMAXs.

I have two all around rifles. I have one of them with me 24/7. For everything from 5 yards to 600-1000.

First one is similar to the OPs.
Remington 700 LTR .308 20" (to be replaced by a GAP barreled action whenever it gets done)
Old Spectrum 90 suppessor. (heavy, may buy Sandstorm to replace.
AICS 2.0
Nightforce 3.5-15x50
Harris Bipod
Quick Cuff sling.

Second is alot easier to carry:
Bushmaster AR15 lower
Gisselle DMR trigger
Larue 16" Stealth upper
Gemtech M4-96D suppressor
Nightforce 2.5-10x32 in LT mount
Harris Bipod
Fore grip.

I used to carry the 700 all the time, but the more compact/light AR is alot less hassle to carry around all the time. The .308 puts things down alot quicker though. Am going to build up a 18" AR10 and see how that works out.

-dan
 
#52
Re: The single all-around rifle?

Weight has a lot to do with the concept of an "all-around" rifle; at least in my world. Still-hunting, woods walking, hiking and almost any other activity aside from stand-setting or sniping from a prepared hide will mean you are carrying gear or at least some equipment. A 15lb rifle, as the 06 mentioned above would have to be outfitted with (1) a weighted stock, (2) a long & heavy barrel, and (3) a very heavy scope.

For a short while, I owned an AICS 1.5 stock. Saw a post here or in the gunsmithing section where a guy asked about how much a 1.5 SA stock weighs. 5lbs 13oz was the answer. Wow!

Complete Rem 700 LA weighs about 2.75lbs, call it 3.
A NightForce 50mm NXS scope with steel rings and base weighs about the same.
A Palma contour barrel of 26"oal goes about 6lbs.
Stock? from 3 to 6lbs
5 rds of ammo about 1/4lb

Yeah, you can carry it; but is it comfortable? Is it "practical"? Maybe so, for a .338lapua. Power and weight do correlate. Yet, how much power do you need? How "accurate" is accurate enough?

Planning on shooting off a bipod? Then you are back to static position, may as well be in a stand.

Having one rifle you use for everything is different from designing an "all-around" rifle.

Couple of Summers ago, my kids went hiking in a bear area. Son took the Guide Gun, but they weren't back in several hours so the old man has to go looking for them. Had just bought a like new .300Wby Sendero SF w/3.5-10x Vari-X III scope. No sling. It was the only other rifle in the RV, so I loaded up with 180gr Nosler factory loads and went out. I hiked about 4 mi in and back with that rifle and maybe a canteen or water bottle, was not uncomfortable as the rifle was about 10lbs and great to handle.

I think a Sendero SF in .338/06 with a 4.5-14x leupold mk4 would run under 11 lbs and be a perfect "all-around" rifle for my area. I have hunted with a .338/300 stainless BDL in a Sendero stock with 4.5-14x LTR 50mm and at about 10lbs it was excellent. Sighted in, on my belly in a gravel pit while rain poured, this sporter barrel put 5 250gr rounds consistently under 1". What more does an "all-around" rifle need to do?

I prefer a scope to be close to 1lb or under 1.5lbs. Sold a magpul sniper stock from my AR-10 because the weight sucked eggs and the A2 stock is fine. I removed 5 or 6 rail slots from the Badger Ord handguard so I could mount the 4.5-14x mk4 with medium rings. A bit heavy at 14lbs with a 20rd mag, but not 17-18 w/magpul and USO SN3 as prior owner had it setup. The short 4.5-14 balances excellently. Use a long tubed scope and the rifle gets very muzzle heavy.

Have not needed to weight any of my stocks. The Sendero SF is now in a McMillan HTG with Williams floorplate; even handier in the woods than that Sendero H-S stock, and it was very nice indeed!

If you are an "active shooter", meaning mobile hunter etc as described above, does the extra weight of a maxed-out tactical rifle really serve you in the field?

I have decided it does not serve my goals, and sold the extras I did not need; including a NXS 8-32x scope, Sako TRG bipod and brake, magpul sniper stock, short barrel AR-15 uppers and other gear I can't remember.

I really believe that aside from fixed-position longrange shooters, a rifle weighing much over 13lbs is limited in its versatility and the all-around precision rifle has what the "heavy" lacks, namely fast response with ease of handling. The guy carrying 10lbs in the mountains will be more rested than the guy carrying 17. If either rifle shoots sub .5moa; what is gained from the extra pounds you've packed?
 
#53
Re: The single all-around rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swamper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...aside from fixed-position longrange shooters...</div></div> But it has to be able to do fixed position long range very well - because it's a rifle first.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swamper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the all-around precision rifle has what the "heavy" lacks, namely fast response with ease of handling.</div></div> How fast does it need to be? If it can clear buildings, and move in and out of vehicles, then it's easy to handle.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swamper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The guy carrying 10lbs in the mountains will be more rested than the guy carrying 17.</div></div>Only if you carry only your own gear, and you carry it very, very far, without regular food, water, and rest.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swamper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If either rifle shoots sub .5moa; what is gained from the extra pounds you've packed? </div></div>The ability to get good with it.
 
#54
Re: The single all-around rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swamper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...A 15lb rifle, as the 06 mentioned above would have to be outfitted with (1) a weighted stock, (2) a long & heavy barrel, and (3) a very heavy scope...</div></div>

Actually it doesn't include any of those things.

It's fairly easy to hit 15 lbs with heavy duty steel components.

Rem 700 action
Mcmillan A2, sniper-fill
Douglas #7, 22.4" + Thruster brake
Leupold MK4 16X
Badger Ord M4 floorplate/TG, 20 moa base, std rings, all steel
Harris 9-13
TIS sling
Eagle stock pack.

It all adds up,
Img_8919.jpg
 
#55
Re: The single all-around rifle?

It's a toss-up for me, the semi's have the rate of fire for sure, but I'm not convinced on having that as an "all uses" rifle.

I think that a solid straight pull bolt like the k31 could be a very good version, it has a detachable mag and shoots a hammer of a round.

I think my ideal "take it anywhere in North America" rifle would be a bolt action.

I'm working on a receiver design now that will allow a 30 degree bolt throw, use detachable magazines, has integral dual recoil lugs, and an integral picatinny rail.

I think that a 22" barreled 30-06 or 280 with a detachable box mag, 2.5-10x scope and a sling and good bipod would be ideal. They have the legs to hit anything you can see with the naked eye, you can shoot up close, there's availability for decent capacity, and the round is viable on any game on the continent.

I think you can probably keep the rifle weight to 12lbs without any kind of exotic measures.

Doesn't have the rate of fire that an AR platform does, but out at 800y can you really use that rate of fire to it's full potential? I think very few of us can.
 
#56
Re: The single all-around rifle?

This Might be a little unpopular but in all honesty....

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 14pt">My Marlin 336 30-30</span></span>
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you can hunt with it, defend yourself with it, dont have to worry about magazines, very reliable, Politically Correct!!!
smirk.gif
easy to top of with ammo, and heavy hitter.

now yes AR's and Ak's And all are great too, but this is not a this vs that post. its all about your system and what you practice with. But Lever actions have their downsides as well:

Limited mag capacity
Slow reload(compared to box)
Hard to manipulate one-handed, if your injured etc. <--- unless your arnold with a 12 ga lever
grin.gif

Easy for young ones or wife who are unfamiliar with it to short stroke or not know how to operate.
No Rails for the mall ninjas!!! LOL
sick.gif



but to each his own, but i do not feel like i would be under gunned, or can think of any situation i'd get into as a CIVILIAN that my marlin would not be able to handle. remember im not going to Iraq or war, there are better weapons for that, such as my M4 or Remmy SPS Tac. so for an all-rounder rifle state-side...my 30-30 would suit my needs more than just fine. just my 0.2
 
#57
Re: The single all-around rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: azerious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This Might be a little unpopular but in all honesty....

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 14pt">My Marlin 336 30-30</span></span>
cool.gif
</div></div>

I love my 336C, do you run optics on yours??
 
#59
Re: The single all-around rifle?

MontanaMarine,

Great looking rifle and for sure it will shoot!
"Sniper-fill" is a weighted stock.

Why the brake on an already weight-dampened .30-06? Do you wear hearing protection in the field or remove the brake when hunting?
How did you come to decide on the 16x mk4? I own a couple of 10x mk4s, and owned a 16x; and have a 6x as well, but found the 16x to be too much for a field rifle, in terms of its surgical precision field of view. I know they have the most elevation of any scope going besides the old B&L Tactical 10x, but how many moa can you use with a .30-06?


Marlin lever guns are excellent! Had Ashley Outdoor sight set on my Guide Gun, but went back to a Williams receiver sight with markings for windage & elevation, plus interchangeable apertures.

The 1894 in .44mag or .357 is about like an assault weapon since they hold 8-10 rds and are very fast shooting. No assault weapon stigma though. .44mag with 180 or 200gr bullets is a very decent performer and relatively flat shooting under 200yds. Gotta love the 336 in .30-30 as you can scope it easily and with 100 to 170gr bullets it is very capable. If you have a .35Rem and a .357mag plus a bullet mold or two, you have a great combo set. Same potential for .44 or even .444 Marlin with .44 handgun. (Although with a 6" 629 or especially a 7.5" Super Redhawk, do you even need a rifle if you are considering a carbine?)
 
#60
Re: The single all-around rifle?

Swamper-

I run my 336W with a 4-12x40 that's mounted with see thru rings. My general purpose load is a 150gr atop 4320, but I've loaded it with 90-180gr bullets.

I love it, most of my deer are on it. Fast action for a manually operated rifle, I think only my K31 with the detachable mag is a faster manual rifle that I own.

I just ordered a Super Redhawk in 44mag with 9 1/2 inch barrel, a 6 cavity mould, and a shoulder cross carry holster. Should be here Wednesday I've been waiting for a while, I finally decided to just sell an old Enfield that I don't shoot (had it for about 5 years, fired 2 rounds through it) to supplement the funds for it.

My 336 is a wonderful shorter range deer rifle, the most I've stretched it is 400y, which involved quite a bit of elevation, but it made it to the steel plate. I'll probably get a 44 lever rifle at some point as well and leave it with irons only for a short range PA rifle that I can hunt anything with.
 
#61
Re: The single all-around rifle?

Bohem,

A 9.5" SRH in .44 is an awesome choice for a hunting revolver! Seems like there are some guys who load bullets up to 330 grains in the SRH. I have a .454 Casull SRH w/7.5" bbl and the trigger pull is better than a S&W N frame, plus the Ruger integral rings are very strong. If you scope your SRH, you might find you leave your carbine at home.
 
#62
Re: The single all-around rifle?

Swamper,

If you order any of the McMillan tactical stocks, "sniper fill" is the standard fill unless you specify otherwise. Not sure what the stock actually weighs, but would guess 3 to 4 lbs. You could go lighter with sporter fill, or heavier with solid fill, or even heavier yet with lead weighting.

I opted a brake to facilitate self-spotting. I know any precision marksman worth his salt can self-spot through an unbraked 338 Lapua via proper NPOA, but hey I'm just getting by....grin

The 16X MK4 is pretty much a specialty scope, and I don't consider this rifle an all-arounder. With the 20moa sloped base, I have about 86 moa "up" available from a 100 yd zero, and about 50 moa down. I really need a 60 moa base, because 50 moa down is way excessive. 120 up and 20 down would be reasonable, and give me enough internal to make 2000+ yards. Not serious in terms of combat, just good old-fashioned fun.

With the 208 AMax at 2700 fps, it's 73 moa to one mile (yes, verified, here at 4500 ft, 80 degrees F). The dry semi-arid conditions around here make loooong shooting very viable because it's generally pretty easy to spot a dust plume wherever the bullet hits, and adjust as needed. I'm not endorsing the '06 as a one mile tactical rig. It's simply a fun toy.
 
#63
Re: The single all-around rifle?

MM,

Thanks for responding. Very much the specialized surgical tool, your .30-06. It is a finely setup rifle. I can see how the 16x scope would be fine in MT having driven from Billings to Saltgrass and Havre a few times. Pretty sparse vegetation on the prairies and not much dense woods except maybe in the mountains.

It gets pretty difficult to have a reasonable weight rifle once you start using a heavy contour barrel. Add a 6lb stock, like an AICS and you'd better hire a sherpa. The mark4 fixed scopes are actually fairly light, relatively speaking.

Pretty hard to beat the .30-06 case for most power in standard action. One of the nicest "all-around" rifles ever factory produced has to be the Sako Mannlicher with 20" barrel. Not a match capable tackdriver, but elegant and with 100/200 rear peep sight, very fast and under 9lbs. The Remington 7600 pump in .30-06 is another very good and decently accurate fast shooting rifle with lots of power.

Talking about the .30-30 Marlin above, there's also the Browning BLR and Savage 99 which having magazines, let you use pointed bullets a tube magazine won't stack safely. Can always load a pointed bullet round on a single round basis in a lever action, but...

Don't know if the .300 Savage has the significant taper of the .22-250 case, but if you take that case and Ackley Improve it and chamber it in 6.5mm, it would be a great "all-around" rifle in model 99 or a short=action like a Winchester 70. There is more magazine space in a Win 70 SA than a Rem 700 SA.

Would really like to try a .338/284 in an AR-10 That would give you .472 bolt diameter with case dimension (sans belt) of H&H magnum based ctgs.


For an all-around rifle I think it imperative to handload and have access to decent cast bullets. Being able to switchbarrel from sporter to heavy contour also increases versatility. With a detachable magazine you can carry a variety of ammunition if you have a few magazines. Can also have a variety of specialty scopes. Most guys are afraid to change a barrel though.

Am also pretty firmly convinced that any standard ctg chambered rifle can be made "better" with an AI reamed chamber. More powder capacity, better brass life, ability to chamber standard rounds and fire them with equivalent accuracy; what's not to like about an Ackley Improved chamber in an "all-around" rifle?
 
#65
Re: The single all-around rifle?

Did somebody style this thread to be "a debate"?

Did I miss the part that said, "Resolved: That there is one perfect all-around rifle"?

There are arguments, and then there are "arguments". One kind often begins in angry confrontation and might escalate to violence, the other kind is an orderly presentation of facts that support a position or conclusion. If you say, A=B, B=C; therefore C=A, you make a logical argument also called a syllogism.

Everybody has ideas about the all-around rifle concept.

Who knows? Maybe the Cooper/Steyr Scout Rifle with traditional scope mounted is The One?

My 700LA in .308win AI, with 22" Shilen match barrel in H-S Tactical stock w/adj lop, and Near/TPS/Leupold Mk4 6x weighs about 13.25 lbs. About perfect, am tempted to turn the barrel to a bit lighter contour, but it fits the Tactical barrel channel so perfectly... And a BDL barrel just looks silly in there.

Or maybe that Sako TRG 42 with Pac-Nor 26" match barrel in .338/300 is "perfect"? 250gr bullets kick like a heavy .308 when loaded with 65gr of XMR4350 or like a .338rum when loaded with 79gr. What other traditional magnum enables so much range of powder and mild to fierce performance? Haven't shot any cast bullets in it yet but 2000fps with a 275 gr flat point bullet of Wheelweight alloy is enough to kill anything without massive meat destruction.

Ever hear of the Cast Bullet Benchrest Assoc? Guys get some damn fine groups with paper-patched old blackpowder ctgs that are updated a bit.

If you handload and have a precision crafted weapon, almost anything goes.


Then there is that Grendel based wildcat the 6mm Turbo AR from Robert Whitley, gas gun accuracy guru... A 20" AR-15 platform firing a 3000fps 107gr 6mm bullet with superb 1000yd performance...

Shoot some MatchKing or Hornady BTHP bullets into a rock-filled backstop and then dig through all the broken rocks and see how those bullets all hang together. What more could you need?
 
#67
Re: The single all-around rifle?

All around, it's got to be the M1A. You could use it for any type of shooting like hunting, sniper, tactical, long range etc. with high rate of success. I think it's as versatile as it gets.
 
#68
Re: The single all-around rifle?

I reckon a 9 pound 30-06 in a sporting stock with a Schmidt PH 3-12 pushing 208 AMAXs at 2700 will be just about right. I will let ya'll know when I've gotten it done and shot it.
 
#69
Re: The single all-around rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swamper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bohem,

A 9.5" SRH in .44 is an awesome choice for a hunting revolver! Seems like there are some guys who load bullets up to 330 grains in the SRH. I have a .454 Casull SRH w/7.5" bbl and the trigger pull is better than a S&W N frame, plus the Ruger integral rings are very strong. If you scope your SRH, you might find you leave your carbine at home. </div></div>

That's exactly what I bought it for. My dad has the same one, I bought a clone of his revolver. We've shot some things around the 300 grain mark, but for really hot loads he seems to like the 240 or 265 JHP. I got it now so that I have time to practice before deer season, I'm hoping to take one this year with it.

When it gets here tomorrow I'll be sure to post pictures of it... not that anyone hasn't seen one before, but you know how it goes.

Edit: I just made it through your other post about the cast boolits. Everything I own has been fed cast except for my AR and 204 Ruger. I shoot probably 600 rounds a year of 30-30, about 575 of that ends up being 150 or 170 FP cast with a gas check. It's a great way to get trigger time and not break the bank.

In fact, I spent Sunday casting bullets for my 9mm and 10mm's for some upcoming steel plate training. I have a 50 cal ammo can full of 148gr 9mm's that need to be lubed and sized now.
 
#70
Re: The single all-around rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 96C</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a Marlin 336C .30-30 with the XS Scout rail </div></div>

I have a Guide Gun set-up something like that... (right click/View Image)

guidegun.jpg
 
#71
Re: The single all-around rifle?

H2O Man - Is that an 1895 in 30-30? It looks somewhat larger bore, like 444 or 45-70. Also, I don't see threads on the muzzle, is that can there for it?

It's a nice rifle, my dad has an 1895 in 45-70. Talk about getting your ass kicked by recoil. It actually made my teeth rattle.
 
#73
Re: The single all-around rifle?

I already own mine. It's an M70 .30-'06 sporter in a lightweight Realtree B&C stock, with a Tasco 6-24x42 Mildot target/varmint variable. It may not seem like much but it helped me win 3rd place in the 1997 NJ State Sniper Match Finals at Cherry Ridge, using plain old FGMM 168's off a rigid Harris Bipod. 300yd in snow flurries. Back in those days, it wore a very generic Tasco 4-10x32(ish?) variable medium duplex hunting scope

If she won't put it down, it deserves to stay among us; but that's never been an issue.

Greg
 
#74
Re: The single all-around rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 96C</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a Marlin 336C .30-30 with the XS Scout rail and Eotech which goes really well.
This is my zombie blaster at the range..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t3SYmXuiQs

Have a look at this though, beauty!
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=455935
336_1.jpg


That should be a stock item from Marlin i think. </div></div>


very nice rifle! what stock is that? duracoated? and how'd you do the stippling?
 
#75
Re: The single all-around rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swamper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Then there is that Grendel based wildcat the 6mm Turbo AR from Robert Whitley, gas gun accuracy guru... A 20" AR-15 platform firing a 3000fps 107gr 6mm bullet with superb 1000yd performance...
</div></div>

I have several Remington 700's and an AR-10 in 260 Remington. I feel pretty "invested" in it. Lots of bullets, brass, powder, dies & associated handloading gadgets.

I keep looking at the 6.5 Grendel and 6.8SPC. A 6mm bullet in an AR-15 platform sure sounds appealing though.
 
#76
Re: The single all-around rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: azerious</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 14pt">My Marlin 336 30-30</span></span></div></div>That limits you to 100 yards - 150 if you're good.
 
#77
Re: The single all-around rifle?

You can probably throw a baseball 100yds and hit something the size of a deer. A .30-30 should be at least viable to 250yds, dontcha think?
 
#78
Re: The single all-around rifle?

bout the only people i can think of that can throw a baseball 100 yards get paid a few million a year to do it for a living, the single all around rifle in my opinion is some sort of scout rifle in a heavy hitting caliber. IE Marlin 30-30, steyr scout or something of the likes
 
#79
Re: The single all-around rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swamper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can probably throw a baseball 100yds and hit something the size of a deer.</div></div>Not with enough force to knock it down.
 
#80
Re: The single all-around rifle?

1) A 100y baseball throw isn't particularly difficult. I threw javelin and discus in HS, I'm not a professional pitcher whatsoever, but I can still get a baseball into the 400ft range. I can still get a collegiate jav to 60y and upon occasion hit 70. At that range a baseball will kill small animals if I can hit them, and the 800gram spear at 65y has quite a bit of thump. People die from them every year...

2) The 30-30 is capable out to 400y if you know what you're doing. It's not THAT light of a round, it is not a challenge at all to use my 336 with factory ammo to whomp an 8" steel plate at 400y and the feedback is more impressive than a 223 at 150y.

The 30-30 does 150's at 2500 fps, it's still supersonic at 400y, at 250 it's doing like 1600 fps.
 
#83
Re: The single all-around rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1) A 100y baseball throw isn't particularly difficult. I threw javelin and discus in HS, I'm not a professional pitcher whatsoever, but I can still get a baseball into the 400ft range. I can still get a collegiate jav to 60y and upon occasion hit 70. At that range a baseball will kill small animals if I can hit them, and the 800gram spear at 65y has quite a bit of thump. People die from them every year...

</div></div>
Just jarringa little with you but arent you in the wrong line of work if you can throw a baseball about 400 ft? Is that in the air or with a couple hops and a nice long roll???
 
#84
Re: The single all-around rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: azerious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=455935
336_1.jpg
</div></div>
very nice rifle! what stock is that? duracoated? and how'd you do the stippling? [/quote]

It's not actually my rifle, i found it last night on another forum and had to show it here!
Here are the specs from the guy who tricked it out:

Model: Marlin "336"
Caliber: 30-30
Capacity: 4+1
Finish: Norrell's Moly-Coat over 60 grit Aluminum Oxide Bead blast with "Metal ready" phosphate coating, mil-tech "bath"
<span style="font-weight: bold">Stock: Ram-Line, textured, foam filled & epoxy resin reinforced at swivel stud & butt plate</span>
Front barrel band & swivel stud: home made & recessed into shallow barrel cut.
Front sight: New England Custom Gun "Masterpiece" banded ramp w/Gold Bead insert
Scope & Mount: XS Scout base with Talley steel rings, 1X Burris Short Mag scope
Rear sight: Williams FP (On order)
Action: Tuned & polished, Bear proof extractor

I had a look for the stock, they're only about $60 USD... Bargain! I think he did the stippling by hand similar to how TacOps do their stocks on the rifles, dabbing the resin on with a paddle pop stick to make it spike out 3D.
Awesome rifle.
 
#85
Re: The single all-around rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a Guide Gun set-up something like that... (right click/View Image)
guidegun.jpg
</div></div>

And that is a beautiful rifle! How do you like the Aimpoint Micro that far forward?
smile.gif
good work.
 
#86
Re: The single all-around rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1) A 100y baseball throw isn't particularly difficult. I threw javelin and discus in HS, I'm not a professional pitcher whatsoever, but I can still get a baseball into the 400ft range</div></div>

bout the only people i can think of that can throw a baseball 100 yards get paid a few million a year to do it for a living
</div></div>


+1!!




On a side note:

pics_no-one-gives-a-fuck.jpg


grin.gif
 
#87
Re: The single all-around rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1) A 100y baseball throw isn't particularly difficult. I threw javelin and discus in HS, I'm not a professional pitcher whatsoever, but I can still get a baseball into the 400ft range. I can still get a collegiate jav to 60y and upon occasion hit 70. At that range a baseball will kill small animals if I can hit them, and the 800gram spear at 65y has quite a bit of thump. People die from them every year...

</div></div>
Just jarringa little with you but arent you in the wrong line of work if you can throw a baseball about 400 ft? Is that in the air or with a couple hops and a nice long roll??? </div></div>

Nope, in the air, goal post to goal post on a football field is a regular day with a baseball for me as long as I warm up, occasionally I'm on target enough to throw it through the goal post, but not often.

I can't aim for crap, and I quit pitching little league when I put a kid in the ER from a bad pitch. I started throwing Jav in HS, natural talent for throwing stuff, NO talent for calling where it hits. I'm lanky and 6' 3" with orangutan arms, it's mostly body mechanics.

What really sucks about it is finding a rifle stock that has a length of pull even close to appropriate for me
 
#88
Re: The single all-around rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What really sucks about it is finding a rifle stock that has a length of pull even close to appropriate for me</div></div>

Try the AICS spacer system, fully customizable to any users length of pull
wink.gif


AICSextended.jpg
 
#89
Re: The single all-around rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HasgunWilltravel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Try the AICS spacer system, fully customizable to any users length of pull
wink.gif


AICSextended.jpg
</div></div>

Slick! I'm going to check that out for sure, thank you.
 
#91
Re: The single all-around rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 30-30 is capable out to 400y if you know what you're doing. It's not THAT light of a round, it is not a challenge at all to use my 336 with factory ammo to whomp an 8" steel plate at 400y and the feedback is more impressive than a 223 at 150y...The 30-30 does 150's at 2500 fps, it's still supersonic at 400y, at 250 it's doing like 1600 fps.</div></div> I guess those of us who passed over this round for long range work just don't know what we are doing: A G1 BC of .214 at 2390fps, 2 MOA accuracy at 400 in no wind conditions, and it retains 1168fps. No, really, it's fantastic; how could I have missed it?!
whistle.gif


Then again I never bullseyed wamprats back home either, so don't rely on my accuracy when you attack the death star.
grin.gif
 
#92
Re: The single all-around rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I guess those of us who passed over this round for long range work just don't know what we are doing: A G1 BC of .214 at 2390fps, 2 MOA accuracy at 400 in no wind conditions, and it retains 1168fps. No, really, it's fantastic; how could I have missed it?!
whistle.gif


Then again I never bullseyed wamprats back home either, so don't rely on my accuracy when you attack the death star.
grin.gif
</div></div>

Way to miss the point of my post. We're talking about exceptional "all around" guns. We're not talking about "Long range specialty stick."

I wouldn't use a 30-30 on the Death Star either, but then again, I moved out of my parent's basement a long time ago.
 
#93
Re: The single all-around rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wouldn't use a 30-30 on the Death Star either, but then again, I moved out of my parent's basement a long time ago.</div></div>I'm sure you have. That was my attempt at humor: I wasn't trying to bust you too hard.
smile.gif


But you are on my thread, and telling me what "we're" talking about, so either you didn't read it from the beginning and posted anyway; or you read it from the beginning, ignored what others have written to you, and continued your off-topic hijack anyway. I don't mind, as long as we're having an interesting dicussion. But the ballistics of a 30-30 just ain't that interesting. And that was my point.
 
#94
Re: The single all-around rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wouldn't use a 30-30 on the Death Star either, but then again, I moved out of my parent's basement a long time ago.</div></div>I'm sure you have. That was my attempt at humor: I wasn't trying to bust you too hard.
smile.gif


But you are on my thread, and telling me what "we're" talking about, so either you didn't read it from the beginning and posted anyway; or you read it from the beginning, ignored what others have written to you, and continued your off-topic hijack anyway. I don't mind, as long as we're having an interesting dicussion. But the ballistics of a 30-30 just ain't that interesting. And that was my point. </div></div>

Gotcha, I missed the humor in that.
 
#96
Re: The single all-around rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Swamper-
Fast action for a manually operated rifle, I think only my K31 with the detachable mag is a faster manual rifle that I own. </div></div>

I would think that a Rem 7600 pump would be faster than a Swiss K31 straight pull since you do not have to move your trigger hand. The 7600 also has a detatchable mag although 10 round mags are hard to find
 
#97
Re: The single all-around rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like an AR: varmints, predators, pest control, structured and unstructered competitions, marksmanship development, deer hunting and security/defense. </div></div>Agreed. With 77gr mag-length SMK's now available the .223 AR may be, all around, handier and better and less prone to breakage than the bigger version in .308.

Then the question becomes: are the drawbacks of a semi, like powder burn-rate limitations, legal restrictions, mag-length OAL restriction, recoil forces from the bolt, and a slight accuracy disadvantage enough to make a short bolt-gun the only way to go; or does the portability and modular interchangeability of the AR platform trump the extra bit of durability, accuracy, precision and ergonomics available in a bolt-gun?
 
#98
Re: The single all-around rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: p620346</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Swamper-
Fast action for a manually operated rifle, I think only my K31 with the detachable mag is a faster manual rifle that I own. </div></div>

I would think that a Rem 7600 pump would be faster than a Swiss K31 straight pull since you do not have to move your trigger hand. The 7600 also has a detatchable mag although 10 round mags are hard to find </div></div>

I think the pump is probably faster, but I'm a lefty so the K31 doesn't require moving my trigger hand. It would probably take a little longer to rack the bolt with my foregrip hand and then position it again, especially if I used a sling, then it would be a no brainer.

I also don't have a 7600, the K31 isn't as fast as my lever gun, now that I think about it. The 7.5 Swiss is a far more potent round over the 30-30 though.
 
#99
Re: The single all-around rifle?

Back on page one I mentioned 75/77gr match hpbt bullets in the .223, and owning a 20" 6.5 twist rate barrel to be able to fire 90gr JLK and Sierra .224 bullets.

Not so interested in dropping game with one round as I am hitting it; if I'm having to use an all-around rifle. Recall an article in the American Rifleman (ETA: back in the 60s), about Eskimos up around Nome/Bethel AK that were using .225Win and other .22 highpower boltguns for all their shooting. Kinda comes down to how well you can hunt.

In a SHTF situation, who will be hunting game animals? That is what snares and deadfalls are for. Most vital capability for the all-around rifle is self-defense. 75gr bthp weighs 1/2 of what a round of .308 weighs, maybe only 1/3 or 40% as much; so you can carry twice as much. 20 rd mag is pretty compact.

My 20" AR w/service rifle match barrel and mk4 scope weighs under 12lbs with full 30rd mag and sling. Take the float tube off your A2 NM rifle and use a Trijicon Reflex on carryhandle mount and you are looking at 10lbs w/loaded magazine. The match sights are very capable for distance with 75gr match ammo.

 
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