Movie Theater The superior Dune thread (not Bender's thread for poors and vagrants)

[TheGerman]

It's the same plot from 1984 so don't get butt hurt over spoilers.

Didn't realize that it won't be released in the US until 10/22 but it was released in Europe and other places over a month ago? What the fuck?

Well, I already saw it, so whatever. Dumb release dates - suck a dick.

Anyways, I have to say I had relatively low expectations for this as A. the original movie wasn't that great to begin with and had aged horribly B. the books were 10000x better regardless of whatever they had tried and C. its Hollywood; they'd fuck it up, because what else would they do?

Overall, I was pleasantly surprised. The actual visuals of the movie from the sets, locations, the overall feel, it was fantastic. You already know the story as its a remake of a movie based on a book, so there's no giant surprise or plot twist (which is probably the sole reason there wasn't a lesbian bi sexual disabled combat veteran economically disadvantaged indigenous LQBTLMAOBBQ tranny in it); I do wish however they would have delved into some of the background in sort of an origin/prequel to 'add' to what we already knew, but it basically set it up like you should have known the backstory and the overall universe/who doesn't like who, etc from the first minute in. I really think they missed out on a lot there as even I, who sort of knew WTF was going on, was like confused by certain things that unless you paid attention in the books/lore, you would have NEVER fucking known and it would otherwise make zero sense.

The most glaring of this is probably how the houses/emperor are arranged and their dynamic as well as the 'council' that oversees everything. Without that, the entire plot to the film other than Leto's son possibly being 'the one' like Anakin Skywalker or something, completely leaves 98% of people watching this wondering WHY the chain of events happened the way that they did, because on face value they make absolutely zero sense; so the emperor, orders the House that is actually more powerful than he is which troubles him, off the planet where they make all of their money mining a resource, tells a rival house to go there instead........and then helps the original House to kill them? What?

So with that:

Pros

- Atmosphere, locations, entire feel is extremely well done

- Music is fantastic

- Honestly not a ton of 'action' but you're never bored, and its never really slow

- Story was predictable but still well done given this hindrance; they slightly changed/updated a few things

- Mostly great cast albeit some of them literally like just....disappear.

- 2.5 hours yet I wanted more at the end (more on this below)

Cons

- It was 2.5 hours and I realized at the opening it said Part 1. With this, I was expecting a lot of depth and character building especially given the relatively large cast. This was kind of disappointing.

- Some of the story and dynamics really hinged on you knowing WTF was going on in the Dune universe with little to no explanation.

- Sometimes it just seemed to jump around a bit too much and could have actually slowed down instead. For example, it went from 'everything's fine' to 'we re about to all get fucked' within 2 minutes via a cut scene to the people coming to fight them (why? from where? who you've never seen before or were talked about) are getting ready on another planet (that you have no idea WTF it is, or why, or where, or if there is any meaning behind it) and just, surprise!! show up (and you have no idea why).

- There's apparently at least 1 more part to this so the 'ending' left you basically mid story, boom, blank screen.

- Overall great cast but some of them are just roll your eyes bad; Jason Momoa as Duncan Idaho was just a total fucking reach, but then again they basically didn't write him into the script either. Zendeya or whatever was just fucking awful even though she wasn't in it very much either and just stared at things and said 2 words at times and I could never figure out what the chick playing Lady Atredies was doing because her expressions, voice, acting and just overall demeanor were just forced.

- Did I mention that I'm annoyed that with a 2.5 hour part 1 movie there was like zero character development?

- Nitpicking, but for a super futuristic movie with great visuals, all of the larger capital ships could be summed up with referring to them as simply, Polygons in Space. It was like the design people ran out of time and had to come up with something, drew the sandcrawler the Jawas used, and that was the ship. Oh, need another? Let's flip it upside down for the transport ship design!

 

[JoshPutman]

It sounds like a recommendation to just stick with the original and disregard this remake.

I agree, the books are great. The last couple weren't quite as good, and the last one in particular, with the way the story ended. Of course, the last few were written by Frank's son and one of his friends from extensive notes left by Frank when he passed away.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

I didn’t even like the original movie. Never could get into it. Always seemed like it was trying to be oh so edgy and esoteric.

 

[91Eunozs]

I actually loved the remake…watched it last night with the fam. Very stunning visuals.

Plot was a bit sketchy, but was drinking so I may have missed a lot. LOL

edit: full disclose: I read the first 5 books as they were published years ago…likely have the 1st editions in a box somewhere. Also, I watched the 80s original last week to refresh my memory, but all I did was remind myself how cheesy that version was. Apart from the story line of course, this remake was nothing like that one at all.

I’ll definitely watch it again.

sober.

maybe.

 

[TheGerman]

@Bender is late to the party

 

[The D]

Who are the poor, uncultured swine that only watch the movies? Any cultured gorillas read the book, like me?

P.S. It was probably 10 years ago but I did read it

 

[Carlos Danger]

The German has awakened!

 

[Megahoser]

I think the new movie’s plot follows along with the book a bit closer. I also think the casting job was fairly well done. It was nice to see Idaho as a fighter, believably kicking some ass, and I thought Paul’s teenage/hormonal character was portrayed much closer to how I visualized him in the book, as opposed to the full-blown man in the previous movie.

The cinematography and special effects in the new version are spectacular. Combined with the soundtrack, it almost transports you directly into some of the scenes. However, it did feel like the visual-immersion was the focus, rather than dialogue and any real character development. The ‘80’s Lynch movie did a lot to catch the viewer up on the story and culture, both with the opening narration and a variety of vocalized character thoughts. This new version does none of that. Even knowing the story as well as I do, I felt wanting for anything additional. There is almost zero emphasis placed on the value of the spice, outside of it being a highly sought after commodity. There is barely any information on the various guilds, the houses, the feudal-system, or the generational warring between Atredies & Harkonens.

Outside of beautiful visuals, this movie does almost nothing to aid you on that journey…it is as though it was directed solely for fans of the novel. Which is a weird. Hollywood usually feels the need to over-explain or dramatize everything, this movie leaves a lot open to interpretation. It is almost as if the viewpoint you are provided is obtuse, no deeper than that of a fly on a wall observing much bigger machinations.

All-in-all I’d still say I liked it, but I am hopeful the second installment will offer a bit more dialogue, and backstory to fill things out.

 

[Jigstick]

Are there any titties in it?

 

[Megahoser]

Negative…lacking in those visuals.

 

[theLBC]

i think it is hard to write movies in the first person, and so gom jabbar seems almost more real when reading it. maybe that is just me.
i am interested in how they handle that in the new version, but won't go out of my way to see it.

 

[Megahoser]

i think it is hard to write movies in the first person, and so gom jabbar seems almost more real when reading it. maybe that is just me.
i am interested in how they handle that in the new version, but won't go out of my way to see it.

I think that particular scene was better in the 80’s Lynch version.

 

[Bender]

@Bender is late to the party

I actually work




Sometimes.

 

[TheGerman]

Can someone answer something for me that I'm sure is explained somewhere and I've just never seen it:

Why in the fuck is everyone using swords and shit?

I get that force fields are a thing. However, that just means you need a bigger/better fucking laser weapon as it was obvious by that dart working its way through Leto's force field after a few seconds that it can be defeated. It's energy based, which is why I'm guessing melee weapons were preferred in theory, but is just overall a dumb fucking idea. I'd rather take shots at your ass and get 1 round to punch through/work its way through than to have to 50v50 it from 2 feet away. That's just common sense.

Also, during the bombardment attack, ships were using lasers and explosive munitions. These obviously did something, otherwise, everyone would have just stood around and been like 'LOL forcefield' the entire time.

I remember in the books they talked about how Artreades had developed a newer fighting method that would make them stronger/better than even the Emperor's army; I mean, was it someone finally fucking figuring out to use a fucking M4 shooting M193 that the energy force field wouldn't stop because its kinetic?

Congratulations, I've won the universe.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Long rant about swords. Must have been a lot of sword wielding heathens stop by his place on all poors eve

 

[Redmanss]

Gay.

 

[Mr.BR]

Sounds rather BS but here is the reasoning behind the swords.

''Another application of the Holtzman effect are the shields used to defend cities and individuals. Provided with variable oscillations to repel matter traveling at different speeds, the generator belts used to augment personal protection are almost ubiquitous in the known universe. Rendering almost all ammunition harmless, hand-to-hand shield combat in the age of the Holtzman generator has become de rigueur. Since the speed of a vicious hand strike is also repelled by this technology, shield warriors must adapt their fighting technique to include a slowed approach just at the point of field interaction to bypass the barrier and land a blow against an opponent.''

 

[HeavyAssault]

Cliff notes version: It was a great movie, watch it.

FIFY

 

[RUTGERS95]

sucked compared to 84 version imho

 

[HUNTERVASSER]

Why in the fuck is everyone using swords and shit?

In the 1st book swords were used since “las/laz-Guns” and Shields would create a large explosion. There is a part when Duncan Idaho set a shield and a “las/laz gun“ up as a trap. That’s why projection pistols were used as an alternative.
Overall the movie had some strong similarities with the book…but ultimately the Barons part in the new movie seemed rushed and his character was not as “fleshed” out. The book made the “Baron” a formidable, if not a calculating enemy.

 

[Megahoser]

Can someone answer something for me that I'm sure is explained somewhere and I've just never seen it:

Why in the fuck is everyone using swords and shit?

I get that force fields are a thing. However, that just means you need a bigger/better fucking laser weapon as it was obvious by that dart working its way through Leto's force field after a few seconds that it can be defeated. It's energy based, which is why I'm guessing melee weapons were preferred in theory, but is just overall a dumb fucking idea. I'd rather take shots at your ass and get 1 round to punch through/work its way through than to have to 50v50 it from 2 feet away. That's just common sense.

Also, during the bombardment attack, ships were using lasers and explosive munitions. These obviously did something, otherwise, everyone would have just stood around and been like 'LOL forcefield' the entire time.

I remember in the books they talked about how Artreades had developed a newer fighting method that would make them stronger/better than even the Emperor's army; I mean, was it someone finally fucking figuring out to use a fucking M4 shooting M193 that the energy force field wouldn't stop because its kinetic?

Congratulations, I've won the universe.

Mr BR explained the sword choice and also touched on how they can defeat a shield with slowed movement fighting techniques the shield cannot deflect.

The same priciples apply to ‘smart’ weapons such as the darts, hunter-seekers, and the dropped bombs…in the movie you can notice the delayed piercing of the shields both on people (Leto) and on the Atredies fleet. If you look closely at the footage in the movie you'll see the smart weapons are not “penetrating” or overcoming the shield, as it might have appeared…but rather, the smart weapons are recognizing the shielded entity and then slowing their momentum which allows the weapon to pass through the shield at a speed the shield does not perceive as threatening.

That is consistent with how Herbert envisioned shield technology, and it’s weaknesses, in the novels.

 

[johnnycat]

Meh. I'll just stick to the 1990's PC based video game

 

[Averageman]

I really enjoyed Leto and Paul's interactions. It was refreshing to see a loving father and son relationship under the pressure of royalty. Leto was understanding of Paul's trepidation.

 

[Fig]

I’ve watched it like ten times now so I can annoy my family by saying all the lines before they’re said.

 

[MK20]

I think @TheGerman goes around and pokes holes in the logic of his local LARPers for fun.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

I’ve watched it like ten times now so I can annoy my family by saying all the lines before they’re said.

My wife hates me doing that....so,....
You shall have sanctuary in my tribe.....

 

[Fig]

 

[Lawless]

Visually stunning, I enjoyed it. The original, while classic, wasn’t anything special.

 

[TheGerman]

Mr BR explained the sword choice and also touched on how they can defeat a shield with slowed movement fighting techniques the shield cannot deflect.

The same priciples apply to ‘smart’ weapons such as the darts, hunter-seekers, and the dropped bombs…in the movie you can notice the delayed piercing of the shields both on people (Leto) and on the Atredies fleet. If you look closely at the footage in the movie you'll see the smart weapons are not “penetrating” or overcoming the shield, as it might have appeared…but rather, the smart weapons are recognizing the shielded entity and then slowing their momentum which allows the weapon to pass through the shield at a speed the shield does not perceive as threatening.

That is consistent with how Herbert envisioned shield technology, and it’s weaknesses, in the novels.

Right, so lets do that with munitions. Fuck this melee shit.

 

[Fig]

The shield itself is more believable than a projectile can slow itself just before impact…

 

[WaltHer]

Ummm, Bender's thread has a hot girl in it that is in no way relevant to the thread. What's the problem over here? Also, he said, "you people." Bender- +1. German- -2. WTF, I expected more.

 

[Megahoser]

The shield itself is more believable than a projectile can slow itself just before impact…

It’s been a while since I read them, but I believe according to the books, only ‘smart’ weapons can slow themselves. Shields do protect against projectiles and lasers, which are common on the battlefield. The ‘smart’ weapons are uncommon and illegal/black-market, as they use technology which was banned after the war with AI/thinking-machines.

The weapons are illegally manufactured on Ix, and mainly deployed by the Harkonens. The empire looks the other way because they leverage them to do the dirty work in the galaxy.

Of course, none of that is explained, or eluded to in the movie…so I understand the confusion. The Lynch movie did touch on some of it though.

 

[TheGerman]

Ummm, Bender's thread has a hot girl in it that is in no way relevant to the thread. What's the problem over here? Also, he said, "you people." Bender- +1. German- -2. WTF, I expected more.

Here's a 2 for 1.

 

[TheGerman]

It’s been a while since I read them, but I believe according to the books, only ‘smart’ weapons can slow themselves. Shields do protect against projectiles and lasers, which are common on the battlefield. The ‘smart’ weapons are uncommon and illegal/black-market, as they use technology which was banned after the war with AI/thinking-machines.

The weapons are illegally manufactured on Ix, and mainly deployed by the Harkonens. The empire looks the other way because they leverage them to do the dirty work in the galaxy.

Of course, none of that is explained, or eluded to in the movie…so I understand the confusion. The Lynch movie did touch on some of it though.

That's probably my biggest gripe with an otherwise good movie.

If you don't know all the intricacies behind shit before watching the movie, its all lost on you. Like I had to refresh my memory on why the emperor would make the Harkonens all of a sudden just get up and leave, let Artreides 'take over' and then fucking attack them - and I had at one point read the books.

 

[Averageman]

I’ve watched it like ten times now so I can annoy my family by saying all the lines before they’re said.

"There's spice in the tent"

 

[Greg Langelius *]

The name of the war you're looking for is the Butlerian Jihad. I tend to re-read the initial trilogy every few years, there's always something in there that makes more sense each time around. Same/same with the movie.

Stilgar's comment, "...the likes of which even God has never seen", may be the best movie quote I've ever heard.

The gang I worked/hung with were all wrapped up in it, as we were also with Atlas Shrugged. Unlike the latter, Dune made perfect sense, was well worked out; and the movie was a huge bonus.

Atlas..., OTOH was the prattling of an semi-loopy ideologue, and the darling of contemporary posers. It required Olympic grade stretches of the imagination and suspensions of disbelief.

While it appears archaic now, Dune was a very modern picture for its time, and totally entertaining to this viewer. The casting choices are flatly unforgettable.

Some months back, when the news of the new remake first broke, I think I recall reading that it was to be released in three parts, each a year apart. At the time I thought, "Bummer"; and if that's still true, I still do. Typical Hollyweird carrot dangling.

Besides the original books, there are also those by the Author's Son; which tend to flesh out much of the original story arcs, if sometimes imperfectly.

Greg

 

[TheGerman]

 

[TheGerman]

The name of the war you're looking for is the Butlerian Jihad. I tend to re-read the initial trilogy every few years, there's always something in there that makes more sense each time around. Same/same with the movie.

Stilgar's comment, "...the likes of which even God has never seen", may be the best movie quote I've ever heard.

The gang I worked/hung with were all wrapped up in it, as we were also with Atlas Shrugged. Unlike the latter, Dune made perfect sense, was well worked out; and the movie was a huge bonus.

Atlas..., OTOH was the prattling of an semi-loopy ideologue, and the darling of contemporary posers. It required Olympic grade stretches of the imagination and suspensions of disbelief.

While it appears archaic now, Dune was a very modern picture for its time, and totally entertaining to this viewer. The casting choices are flatly unforgettable.

Some months back, when the news of the new remake first broke, I think I recall reading that it was to be released in three parts, each a year apart. At the time I thought, "Bummer"; and if that's still true, I still do. Typical Hollyweird carrot dangling.

Besides the original books, there are also those by the Author's Son; which tend to flesh out much of the original story arcs, if sometimes imperfectly.

Greg

Biggest problem with the remake:

No battle Pug.

Giant ass fur coats - Check

German UBoat commander - Check

Pug - Check

Chick that I am pretty sure is the cousin/sister of the android chick from Blade Runner - Check


We get Zendiya or whatever the fuck her dumb fucking name is (who actually just looks dumb as fuck), but no pug. The fuck?

 

[TurboTrout]

I liked it

I preferred the last remake a little more however.

 

[WaltHer]

Here's a 2 for 1.


View attachment 7740068

Thought I just saw someone with the screen name "Brandon" trolling this thread. Asked what scent shampoo these girls use....Must have deleted his post. Creeped me out.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Francesca Annis.

 

[hankpac]

There are a lot of sub-plots and schemes behind the schemes, that Herbert explains with Encyclopedia excerpts, and comments from the Princess Irulan, as well as outright exposition, regarding the over-arching plans of the Bene Gesserit, to seat a Kwisatch Hederach, who was supossed to be a woman. Paul's mother was supposed to be a wife, and her daughter was supposed to be wedded to Harkonen's Grandson Feyd. Instead she gave her husband/Consort a son, violating the trust of the Sisterhood, and leading to all the Machiavalian chicanery that followed. Paul's genetics made him far more sensitive to the spice, and he bgan having prescient episodes when merely exposed to the traces found in foods, and the very air of Arrakis. The Reverend Mother tested Paul's Humanity, because even though everyone else was looking to destroy the House Atreides, had he failed, she would have seen to his death immediately ("lets see if we can work with what we've got").
Then along came Alia, the Duke's daughter, by Lady Jessica. the Lady had taken the "Water" while pregnant. ALL her racial and historical memory was downloaded to the fetus, and she was born fully aware and mature, with full Bene Gesserit powers. She was considered an abomination by the Sisterhood, and a Saint by the Arrakeen warriors.
So , no movie can interpret and educate all of that (and THAT is just a FRACTION), and all the other nuances.
So:
Who are the smugglers and how are they important to the spice trade?
Who is the Spacing Guild and how do they use the Spice? Is this the sole purpose of Spice Mining?
Why the ban on Computers or AI?
Who were the Ixians?
What's a Ghola and who are the Bene Tielax?
What motivated Yueh?
The depth to which the entire canon has grown is amazing. Reviewing Fan Wiki's can create an entire new reading experience.
Gawd, I sound like a fricken nerd.

 

[RUTGERS95]

View attachment 7740135

I have had yellow fever. lol

ok watched it again, same opinon

 

[TheGerman]

I have had yellow fever. lol

ok watched it again, same opinon

It's pretty much going to be my cause of death.

 

[RUTGERS95]

It's pretty much going to be my cause of death.

haha, I hear you, it's infectious! how you get over it is to bone a really heinous one, like pan face ugly and then you are cured!

 

[TheGerman]

haha, I hear you, it's infectious! how you get over it is to bone a really heinous one, like pan face ugly and then you are cured!

Yeah I think I'm just going to die then. Plus I'm married to one now, so thats out.

It didn't hit me until after wife #1 where I had dated/banged 95% white girls to that point. Then somehow through eating some left over take out that was in the fridge too long or something, it took hold.

 

[Son of Dorn]

Chick that I am pretty sure is the cousin/sister of the android chick from Blade Runner - Check

If you mean Lady Jessica, not related. That's Francesca Annis.

But the Fremen chick Paul gets with is played by the same actress as the android chick in Blade Runner, Sean Young.

Also, you missed best Battle Pug:

Frickin' Captain Picard carrying a pug into battle. Only in a David Lynch movie.

 

[TheGerman]

There are a lot of sub-plots and schemes behind the schemes, that Herbert explains with Encyclopedia excerpts, and comments from the Princess Irulan, as well as outright exposition, regarding the over-arching plans of the Bene Gesserit, to seat a Kwisatch Hederach, who was supossed to be a woman. Paul's mother was supposed to be a wife, and her daughter was supposed to be wedded to Harkonen's Grandson Feyd. Instead she gave her husband/Consort a son, violating the trust of the Sisterhood, and leading to all the Machiavalian chicanery that followed. Paul's genetics made him far more sensitive to the spice, and he bgan having prescient episodes when merely exposed to the traces found in foods, and the very air of Arrakis. The Reverend Mother tested Paul's Humanity, because even though everyone else was looking to destroy the House Atreides, had he failed, she would have seen to his death immediately ("lets see if we can work with what we've got").
Then along came Alia, the Duke's daughter, by Lady Jessica. the Lady had taken the "Water" while pregnant. ALL her racial and historical memory was downloaded to the fetus, and she was born fully aware and mature, with full Bene Gesserit powers. She was considered an abomination by the Sisterhood, and a Saint by the Arrakeen warriors.
So , no movie can interpret and educate all of that (and THAT is just a FRACTION), and all the other nuances.
So:
Who are the smugglers and how are they important to the spice trade?
Who is the Spacing Guild and how do they use the Spice? Is this the sole purpose of Spice Mining?
Why the ban on Computers or AI?
Who were the Ixians?
What's a Ghola and who are the Bene Tielax?
What motivated Yueh?
The depth to which the entire canon has grown is amazing. Reviewing Fan Wiki's can create an entire new reading experience.
Gawd, I sound like a fricken nerd.

Its a series you could read 10 times and learn something each round. It's also why I mention multiple times at how surprised I was that this wasn't some 4-5+ movie series with ridiculous character and lore development instead of just a remake.

 

[TheGerman]

If you mean Lady Jessica, not related. That's Francesca Annis.

But the Fremen chick Paul gets with is played by the same actress as the android chick in Blade Runner, Sean Young.

Also, you missed best Battle Pug:

Frickin' Captain Picard carrying a pug into battle. Only in a David Lynch movie.

I may or may not have a battle pug because of exactly this scene.

 

[Son of Dorn]

I may or may not have a battle pug because of exactly this scene.

I hear battle pugs were almost included on the ATF ban list in the 80s. Apparently when dual-wielded with a laspistol, they overcome the Holtzmann Effect and don't cause nuclear detonations when interacting with shields.