Then and Now

[Quarter Horse]

The old stuff. BHP I bought in '67 in an original Baker Three Loop Pancake. The knife is a Gerber MKII, #7XXX and L-6 tool steel. I had it sent to me in '68 or '69 and carried it until I went home in '70. Buck #110, of course. The everpresent Zippo that lost it's unit emblem long before it came home. The watch is a Seiko Automatic Divers watch that I bought in-country. The AR is an early commercial that I think is called an SP-1. It accurately represents one of the ones I had overseas except for that little lever on the left. I forgot to include my B&L shooting glasses with G-96 lenses.

The newer stuff' A Gen 4 G-19 in a Garrett kydex leather lined holster. The knife is a Panama fighter by Sean McWilliams and is the second best knife I own. The folder is a Kershaw ZT with Elmax steel and is a collaboration with Hinderer. The lighter is, of course, a BIC. The watch is a Casio PAW 1300 that has more features than an I-Pad. The AR is a #6902 I think with a 1-4 illuminated from SWFA. I forgot to put in the Oaklies just like I forgot the B&Ls.

You will note there is a lot more plastic in the new as opposed to the old. The BICs get thrown away but I still use the Zippo if the wind is up. The Seiko still works but I'm on my second Casio PAW. Progress?

 

[pmclaine]

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Buying quality shit no matter the era means you own quality shit.

I don't disdain new materials as long as they make the product better.

Its when new materials are used to replace older material in order to make the product "cheaper" it becomes a problem.

That collection says more about the collector than the era.

Someone likes owning nice stuff.

Im a big fan of the Garrett Industry holsters. Liking that coyote look. I have an M45A1 that is in need of some Kydex and maybe that color will be its match.

 

[buffalowinter]

Then and Now

 

[sirhrmechanic]

I still have my Gerber from the 1980s. Quality knife then... Quality now.

Cheers, sirhr

 

[ScharfshutzeK98]

Cool collection, thanks for sharing!

 

[sandwarrior]

I've got the Gerber Mk. 1 Seiko Automatic dive watch ( my heavy one I wore in Grenada got stolen). The "old" pistol was a High Standard Military H-D.

Yeah, good quality without breaking the bank.

 

[eicas]

Thanks for your Service.

 

[jbell]

cool post, cool idea, Semper Fi

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

kraigWY Gunfighter14e2 - surely yall got some cool pics to throw up sir!

x2 very cool thread!
sandwarrior - cmon sir I know ya got something you can put up also..!

Thanks to everyone who has/will post pictures and most of all thanks for yalls service!

 

[sandwarrior]

kraigWY Gunfighter14e2 - surely yall got some cool pics to throw up sir!

x2 very cool thread!
sandwarrior - cmon sir I know ya got something you can put up also..!

Thanks to everyone who has/will post pictures and most of all thanks for yalls service!

Sorry, most of it is in storage in N. Idaho right now.

 

[buffalowinter]

A Brother made this cool figure of me. This actually has all the personal equipment I carried in SF right down to my M16A2 with the Bushnell 3x9 scope camo'd with 100 mph tape, my Randall knife, Beretta, and Lowe ruck. Thanks PIR customs at miniheroes.us
[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/scontent.fphx1-2.fna.fbcdn.net\/v\/t1.0-9\/21751770_1065470593587827_3807738313514324074_n.jpg?oh=e68e47728b04801ee1cdbecda0015bad&oe=5A6040A9"}[/IMG2]
[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/scontent.fphx1-2.fna.fbcdn.net\/v\/t1.0-9\/21462599_1065470740254479_663175475760860923_n.jpg?oh=e00c86f1d3e46e5ac0666a06ec2bd963&oe=5A533365"}[/IMG2]
[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/scontent.fphx1-2.fna.fbcdn.net\/v\/t1.0-9\/21751404_1065470843587802_7378524022532503796_n.jpg?oh=31a90f45f70ec5dabba6ae1e547ddb39&oe=5A1394EE"}[/IMG2]

 

[sandwarrior]

Having used a LOT nicer rucks than the ALICE large after I got out, I can really appreciate your post, Buffalo, thanks!

 

[pmclaine]

A Brother made this cool figure of me. This actually has all the personal equipment I carried in SF right down to my M16A2 with the Bushnell 3x9 scope camo'd with 100 mph tape, my Randall knife, Beretta, and Lowe ruck. Thanks PIR customs at miniheroes.us
[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/scontent.fphx1-2.fna.fbcdn.net\/v\/t1.0-9\/21751770_1065470593587827_3807738313514324074_n.jpg?oh=e68e47728b04801ee1cdbecda0015bad&oe=5A6040A9"}[/IMG2]
[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/scontent.fphx1-2.fna.fbcdn.net\/v\/t1.0-9\/21462599_1065470740254479_663175475760860923_n.jpg?oh=e00c86f1d3e46e5ac0666a06ec2bd963&oe=5A533365"}[/IMG2]
[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/scontent.fphx1-2.fna.fbcdn.net\/v\/t1.0-9\/21751404_1065470843587802_7378524022532503796_n.jpg?oh=31a90f45f70ec5dabba6ae1e547ddb39&oe=5A1394EE"}[/IMG2]

Man you got to get a hot looking Barbie to put with your mini me. Shit she aint getting any from new Ken with his man bun that's for sure.

 

[sandwarrior]

Man you got to get a hot looking Barbie to put with your mini me. Shit she aint getting any from new Ken with his man bun that's for sure.

That's the Nissan Super-Bowl commercial. Waaaaayyy too funny when you see the look on Ken's face as Barbie leaves with GI Joe..

 

[J!m]

Every collection needs a Seiko. The SKX007 is bomb proof. Such a great watch for the money!

 

[sandwarrior]

At least I got the Seiko

(7S26-0044 R 2) A variant of the SKX031


The one that got stolen was the SKX007: [IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com\/images\/I\/81VdQ8%2BXJ1L._UY445_.jpg"}[/IMG2]

 

[kraigWY]

Well, Lets See:

Picked this up when I was in the 82nd before I left for Vietnam in June '67

Anybody remember this Gerber from the 70s. I forgot what I had to buy from RCBS to get it. knife has never been used or shapened. The box got a little battered over the years.

This was given to me by my AK Native NG Company on St. Lawrence Island when I left to take over the AK NG Marksmanship Unit.

A hunting village, carved from Walrus Ivory set on at Whale vertebra. The tent is made from the stomach lining,

 

[pmclaine]

Kraig,

Is that knife from the 82nd an auto knife.

I read someplace that the 101st and 82nd had an auto knife issued in WWII for one handed use if you had to cut shroud lines. It was a pretty nondescript Boy Scout looking item. The anecdote stated that at the end of the war cases of them were burned/destroyed.

 

[kraigWY]

Kraig,

Is that knife from the 82nd an auto knife.

I read someplace that the 101st and 82nd had an auto knife issued in WWII for one handed use if you had to cut shroud lines. It was a pretty nondescript Boy Scout looking item. The anecdote stated that at the end of the war cases of them were burned/destroyed.

Yes a switch blade. I really dont know how many were made, or what happened to them. This one was given to my by our supply clerk.

I saw one in an antique store years ago but it was a lot worse shape then mine.

 

[J!m]

I decided to wear my SKX007 today... Great watch!

You can find them on eBay still- they were discontinued years ago... If you can, try to get an SKX007J which is the Japanese market version (Easy tell is they have "21 Jewels" printed in white under the red "Divers 200m" on the dial). Jury is out, but based on mine, the case back, dial and movement are all marked "JAPAN" whereas the bulk of these models ("K" suffix) are made in Korea to the tight Japanese quality standards.

Bottom line is they are essentially identical; however I feel/believe the Japanese market watches have to be assembled in Japan to be allowed those markings. And obviously, the movement marking is only visible to the watchmaker so that is clearly not a marketing move... Also mine has been totally reliable, whereas a friend has a K version that is not running well, and slightly newer than mine.,.

Yes, I have several watches, and I work on them too.

 

[pmclaine]

Yes a switch blade. I really dont know how many were made, or what happened to them. This one was given to my by our supply clerk.

I saw one in an antique store years ago but it was a lot worse shape then mine.

That's a neat item.

I think the ones in WWII had black scales and I got the sense they were not that popular an item of gear. Either not strong enough for uses they were not designed for or not as cool as a stiletto strapped to a calf.

With orange scales I wonder if yours came out of a pilots ejection seat survival gear.

 

[buffalowinter]

 

[sandwarrior]

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/i.imgur.com\/iws7Izhl.jpg"}[/IMG2]

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/i.imgur.com\/Z2aL7I2l.jpg"}[/IMG2]

I'd say keep the watches on the left (Sport 150?) and right and donate that, dare I say it, POS Hamilton to a museum. I like the Randal too! But they are heavy.

Speaking of heavy, that's why the SKX031 was designed. We needed a dive watch that didn't weigh half a pound. My watch will go as deep as any sport diver would go ~328 ft. The SKX007 660 FT. Unless you are sat diving there is no need. An interesting note on both my 007 and 7S is they gain about one minute a week when continuously wound.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Anyone else still have an original Sandy? This is what Luminox copied...

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[buffalowinter]

SW, If you have a Hamilton watch you are going to give to Goodwill I'll give you $50 for it...New one's retail for $395...old one's are more.

[h=1]KHAKI FIELD OFFICER MECHANICAL[/h] [IMG2=JSON]{"alt":"Officer Mechanical","data-align":"none","data-size":"full","title":"Officer Mechanical","src":"https:\/\/shop.hamiltonwatch.com\/media\/catalog\/product\/cache\/4\/image\/500x\/17f82f742ffe127f42dca9de82fb58b1\/h\/6\/h69419363.png"}[/IMG2]
$395
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ADD TO CART

REFERENCE
H69419363
STRAP REF.
H600.684.102
STRAP MATERIAL
Green Textile
CALIBER
ETA 2804-2

• Hand Winding
• 38 mm
• 9.5mm
• Stainless Steel
• 20 mm

 

[Quarter Horse]

I'm glad some of you have enjoyed this thread. Most of the stuff in the "old" pics has followed me around for half a century not because they are momentos but because they are useful gear. The MkII is an exception. My MkII is after the early knives that had a cant to the blade nonetheless it has a clear cant which is due to the fact it was hand ground and not from being angled at the spine.

KraigWY, I have one of the 'chute knives somewhere. I probably picked it up in RVN as where we lived was the combat AO for the 173rd. Our team stayed regardless of which unit moved in and out.

BWinter your pics are always interesting and well done. My favorite is you on the roan. That horse is an athlete. You can see the pocket for a steel on the MKII. Your picture with the P-38 reminded me that the steel had a small lanyard with a P-38 threaded on.

pmclaine, If I remember correctly your recommendation is the reason I went to Garrett. When I got to their website and found where they sourced their leather I was in.

Sand, the Seiko model is 6119-6020 on the case back. The face has 6119 6020S AD, Sport, water 70 proof, 21 jewels and Japan. Moving it around to read the face has it ticking away. Amazing.

 

[pmclaine]

This is what I got for "then"...




I am the handsome one. The rifle is an M16A2 musket and this would be the knife I am wearing, not the Philipine made bolo at the corporals waist but you can just see the leather thong off my left hip....




Three Dragons and two mortarmen on a patrol through the magazines at Subic. While we were on our trail we heard a ruckus in the bushes. The Corporal had us lock and load, a rare time in my career when I carried live ammo in the Fleet. I had point. The piggy jumped upon a log, the corporal said shoot and I fired. Piggy went down but he was only wounded. We than realized he was in a snare and we heard a vehicle driving away on the road along the mags. We assuemd locals working on the base were doing some trapping.

I learned at this point you dont stab pigs with a KaBar. We were not going to fire another round and the pig was struggling all over the ground. I took out the KaBar and tried to stab him in the chest. Dumb. The blade basically bounced off and the piggy was not happy. It takes a bunch of force to stab a pig and I hit a rib. The point was going no where.

A Gunny came along and blasted him to eternity. When we butchered him we found my round went through his left shoulder that was presented to me than travelled across and exploded the right shoulder blade. Just a small hole through the first bone and serious damage in the second. The locals cooked him up for us with some rice.

No pistol back than, I am wearing my Hamilton Khaki though. That watch died in the Philipines while chopping through some bamboo in JEST camp. Now a days if I wear a watch I don a cheap Bertucci I bought at REI and it mimics the Hamilton, or a Revue Thommen Altimark I bought while MSG in Switzerland, or I chain up one of a few Waltham pocket watches. The Hamilton 992B is currently in need of repair.

The service pistol I have to carry....




The pistols I like to carry....

 

[sandwarrior]

I was gonna say...a bunch of Marines and their girlfriend... Ha ha.

Seriously, great story pmc. Hogs get scary underfoot. We had a population explosion on Ft. Stewart in '84-'85 and the ranking NCO was to carry live rounds in a .45, or rifle. A couple of soldiers in the 24th ID got mauled by some...probably a mama protecting piglets, so that was the rule. There was no season on them, so we dined on pork a few times out in the field.

Buffalo,

I'm sure some gomer who never had to rely on a Hamilton thinks since they are military then they are collectible. My experience was the first time I got it in water, water got in and it quit. POS, IMO, but if someone will pay for them, I'll dig it out of my crap when I get back to Sandpoint, to move my stuff.

 

[pmclaine]

PS....

I forgot the now knives.....



The William Henry gets carried to work daily. The Benchmade was a filler I bought to carry when I sent the WH back to the factory to replace a frame screw this spring. The Benchmade is a good blade but the G10 handle is incapable of popping a beer top like i can do with the stainless William Henry frame. I also like the carry "holster" the William Henry came with....



because I only pull the knife when I need it and the clip stays on the clothes I dont wear out the pants pocket the way a knife mounted clip will.

suckily William Henry no longer makes the knife holster and mine is getting very worn.

 

[sandwarrior]

This is what I got for "then"...

...

Question on the M16A2 "Musket" is that a carbine? Like a CAR-15 or Pre-M4?

 

[pmclaine]

Question on the M16A2 "Musket" is that a carbine? Like a CAR-15 or Pre-M4?

Just a standard full length A2, a "musket" compared to the "smaller is better" world we live in.

We signed those rifles out of the armory in Camp Schwab, Oki, when we became a temporary part of 3rd Mar Div.

My particular rifle caught the eye of our Lt Col and not in a good way. The A2 in 1988 might have been 4-5 years old and the barrel on mine looked like polished chrome. He asked what unauthorized cleaning chemicals I had used.

The answer was none but being a Lance Corporal getting questioned by a Lt Col was ass tightening.

 

[sandwarrior]

Were you on Embassy duty there too?

 

[pmclaine]

Were you on Embassy duty there too?

No the trip to Oki/PI was when I was with Wpns Co. 3Bn 8th Marines.

It was just after we returned from Okinawa that the MSG team came to speak to us about the program I decided right than I was too soft and pretty for the Infantry.

 

[sandwarrior]

pmc,

I meant to ask you the other day if that if the barrel was polished, was that an embassy thing? ( Maybe why I asked if it was embassy duty.)

Our Garrison crap was the same way. Say we we had chrome plated brass faucets that started to peel. It was then a privates job to completely polish/peel off the chrome and shine the underlying brass to within an inch of it's life.

 

[pmclaine]

pmc,

I meant to ask you the other day if that if the barrel was polished, was that an embassy thing? ( Maybe why I asked if it was embassy duty.)

Our Garrison crap was the same way. Say we we had chrome plated brass faucets that started to peel. It was then a privates job to completely polish/peel off the chrome and shine the underlying brass to within an inch of it's life.

No just use and abuse had worn off the parkerizing or black oxide the barrel was coated in.

On MSG duty we only had access to 870P shotguns and Model 19 Smith and Wessons. There were Uzis hidden away for us that we generally didn't access.

Stupidest thing I did in the MC was paint the inside face of a urinal White to hide 50 plus years of urine and rust staining prior to an inspection.

 

[J!m]

"Stupidest thing I did in the MC was paint the inside face of a urinal White to hide 50 plus years of urine and rust staining prior to an inspection."

Jesus Phil. I hope you got your shots after that!

 

[pmclaine]

"Stupidest thing I did in the MC was paint the inside face of a urinal White to hide 50 plus years of urine and rust staining prior to an inspection."

Jesus Phil. I hope you got your shots after that!

Dude until you have pulled pubes from the drain in the common shower you haven't lived.

 

[sandwarrior]

"Stupidest thing I did in the MC was paint the inside face of a urinal White to hide 50 plus years of urine and rust staining prior to an inspection."

Jesus Phil. I hope you got your shots after that!

Oooooh Jim,

It gets that stupid from time to time. Let's not spend the $.25 a can (military price) on Comet or Ajax and keep it clean, we'll use up the last of this paint.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

pmc,

I meant to ask you the other day if that if the barrel was polished, was that an embassy thing? ( Maybe why I asked if it was embassy duty.)

Our Garrison crap was the same way. Say we we had chrome plated brass faucets that started to peel. It was then a privates job to completely polish/peel off the chrome and shine the underlying brass to within an inch of it's life.

LOL sounds like a story Ive heard about parkerizing being mistook for carbon and having to "clean" it off

 

[pmclaine]

Oooooh Jim,

It gets that stupid from time to time. Let's not spend the $.25 a can (military price) on Comet or Ajax and keep it clean, we'll use up the last of this paint.

Nah we used plenty of comet, pinesol, bleach and elbow grease. Field Day sucked.

Thing is thirty-forty years of dicks pissing and North Carolina swamp water staining is going to make its way into the porcelain so that no amount of chemical is going to remove it.

Instead or of someone saying "Wow that is one well used urinal, amazing these guys have cared for it so long" it was "Dammit you pigs aught to clean John LeJeunes DNA out of your pisser".

 

[sandwarrior]

Dude until you have pulled pubes from the drain in the common shower you haven't lived.

yah...soapscum and pubes...holding back the puke. I missed this the first go-round.

 

[fdkay]

This is what I got for "then"...




I am the handsome one. The rifle is an M16A2 musket and this would be the knife I am wearing, not the Philipine made bolo at the corporals waist but you can just see the leather thong off my left hip....




Three Dragons and two mortarmen on a patrol through the magazines at Subic. While we were on our trail we heard a ruckus in the bushes. The Corporal had us lock and load, a rare time in my career when I carried live ammo in the Fleet. I had point. The piggy jumped upon a log, the corporal said shoot and I fired. Piggy went down but he was only wounded. We than realized he was in a snare and we heard a vehicle driving away on the road along the mags. We assuemd locals working on the base were doing some trapping.

I learned at this point you dont stab pigs with a KaBar. We were not going to fire another round and the pig was struggling all over the ground. I took out the KaBar and tried to stab him in the chest. Dumb. The blade basically bounced off and the piggy was not happy. It takes a bunch of force to stab a pig and I hit a rib. The point was going no where.

A Gunny came along and blasted him to eternity. When we butchered him we found my round went through his left shoulder that was presented to me than travelled across and exploded the right shoulder blade. Just a small hole through the first bone and serious damage in the second. The locals cooked him up for us with some rice.

No pistol back than, I am wearing my Hamilton Khaki though. That watch died in the Philipines while chopping through some bamboo in JEST camp. Now a days if I wear a watch I don a cheap Bertucci I bought at REI and it mimics the Hamilton, or a Revue Thommen Altimark I bought while MSG in Switzerland, or I chain up one of a few Waltham pocket watches. The Hamilton 992B is currently in need of repair.

The service pistol I have to carry....




The pistols I like to carry....

I did two tours at Momag Unit Nine, 83-85 and 86-90.
Rudy was the Negrito tracker that worked the magazine.
I remember your compadres flying around in a spie rig on occasion.
Good times.

 

[pmclaine]

I did two tours at Momag Unit Nine, 83-85 and 86-90.
Rudy was the Negrito tracker that worked the magazine.
I remember your compadres flying around in a spie rig on occasion.
Good times.

I wish I wasn't so dumb and actually took stock of the locations I had been sent to but unfortunately at 19-20 years old it was all about how soon can we get out to Olongapo. I was there in 1988 and only spent a month in the PI, most of that in the jungle. Cubi Point was where our seabags slept.

I have no idea what the magazines were named, where they were located (other than Subic) or what they looked like.

We stayed in some small Quonset huts somewhere near the mags that we would step off our patrols from. I recall monkeys in abundance feeding off the MRE crap we tossed them.

I don't think our little group ever ran a successful patrol the time we were there. Our first patrol was a night maneuver with no preknowledge of the area. We were supposed to follow a a "well marked" trail that we missed and ended up along the beach. We checked our map, saw we could follow the beach to a river and if we followed the river it would cut across the trail we should have been on. We nearly killed ourselves walking over the bowling ball round cobbles that comprised the beach. When we got to the river we walked in about 10 feet before something big started moving away from us, pushing all the river grass aside, and all decided we were not going to walk the river, visions of Luke Skywalker in the trash compactor going through each of our heads.

So we went back and set up a camp on the beach. Next morning we were awoken by the incoming tide coming into our field expedient poncho shelter.

Our second patrol was a day affair that ended when we found the piggy.

Wish I had of paid attention when we were there. I remember being in other parts of the country training and setting up in a fox hole that at one time was a sand bag installation. The bags were gone but the shape and outline of each "bag" remained in the almost concrete like sand fill. These foxholes were just about filled up with jungle debris, now just depressions in the jungle. Im guessing they likely could have been from the war perhaps Japanese or American.

Had I been more curious back than I would have checked exactly where I was and what had happened there. Sadly the best opportunities the military provides are wasted on the young.

 

[fdkay]

The magazine area was huge. There were 55 miles of roads there.
Frequently, when we would muster in the morning, the fruit bats would be flying overhead.
These weren't your typical, little bats found in the US, they had wing spans of 4 to 5 feet.
Lots of Monitor lizards and very large Tokay Gecko's (fuck you lizards).

 

[pmclaine]

Don't recall the fruit bats in the PI but I remember them in Oki. Looked like a small child hanging from a branch when you saw them in silhouette.

Our JEST instructor had his dog capture one of those monitor lizards for us and we cooked him up with bamboo steamed rice. Tasted like chicken.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

yah...soapscum and pubes...holding back the puke. I missed this the first go-round.

sandwarrior - any idea what units if any, carried Hi Powers in 'Nam? Saw a dude post on another forum trying to act all mysterious and give off the impression he was a secret squirrel, claiming he and his guys carried BHP's.. never been real impressed by those types that want to claim-without-claiming they were in a SOF unit and act all secretive while never openly saying who they were with, etc. Not saying he/they are posers, just dont see the point in beating around the bush. IMO either be 100% quiet professional, or be straight up. Dont try to be both of those. Not sure if Im conveying my point correctly just comes across kinda dumb from my eyes. Maybe Im outta line and theres a legit reason for that behavior tho..

 

[pmclaine]

My understanding is Browning High Powers and Smith and Wesson 39-2s became highly sought by lots of fighters in Vietnam.

It was a different time and rules differed when it came to using/having weapons outside the issue.

 

[Quarter Horse]

The BHP was common for the CIA guys and it's companion was a Karl Gustav (Swedish K). The Aussies had BHPs. I imagine the Kiwi's had them but I never spent any time with them. It always struck me as a little absurd that agency guys walked around in civilian clothes or fatigues without insignia with those firearms. Hi, my name is spooky guess who I work for?

 

[sandwarrior]

sandwarrior - any idea what units if any, carried Hi Powers in 'Nam? Saw a dude post on another forum trying to act all mysterious and give off the impression he was a secret squirrel, claiming he and his guys carried BHP's.. never been real impressed by those types that want to claim-without-claiming they were in a SOF unit and act all secretive while never openly saying who they were with, etc. Not saying he/they are posers, just dont see the point in beating around the bush. IMO either be 100% quiet professional, or be straight up. Dont try to be both of those. Not sure if Im conveying my point correctly just comes across kinda dumb from my eyes. Maybe Im outta line and theres a legit reason for that behavior tho..

First, I wasn't in Viet Nam, so I can't say directly. Second, while I come from the Rangers, they were/are RA (w/spec ops capability). So, the push to use "the standard" is what most of us heard and trained with. Now, there were some privately owned weapons that went to Grenada, BHP's and S&W 59-somethings but they were not issued. There were two BHP's in our arms room, but I do not know if they made it to Grenada. There were about a dozen MP-5's in our arms room and ALL of them POS's made it to Grenada. That's enough 9mm's to lose another world war. The only thing they are good for is as a "disengaging" weapon to get out of the way of the inbound artillery. Fucking retarded shit going to 9mm. Seems like we never learn our lesson.

As you may have guessed, I'm not impressed with 9mm. I don't think it is sufficient, even if they do have more capacity. We went to them militarily for political reasons, to pacify the Italians so we could keep bases in their country. The FBI came out three years ago now saying the 9mm is sufficient. Because "ANY center-mass hit will do" (riiiiggghhht...) And, people who ain't worth a shit get a job workin' for the FBI and are too limp wristed to shoot a .45. So, they said we need to all get squirt guns. I have to say the best information I came across was when I first got on here and push for a "home defense weapon" was an AR. I boiled it every way I could think about it and yeah, that's true. A 55 gr. FMJBT with a cannelure launced from a 1-12" twist barrel is NAASSTYY! 9mm aint' on my radar.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

The BHP was common for the CIA guys and it's companion was a Karl Gustav (Swedish K). The Aussies had BHPs. I imagine the Kiwi's had them but I never spent any time with them. It always struck me as a little absurd that agency guys walked around in civilian clothes or fatigues without insignia with those firearms. Hi, my name is spooky guess who I work for?

No kidding right? I take it you served in Vietnam sir? Any opinion on the Stoner 63/LMG system..? For instance how it would compare to say the 249's our .mil uses today? Obviously seems like itd come in a lot lighter, and what little I know on the topic - the SAW don't seem to be the most reliable MG anyhow. Think that's one small arms area the russkies did outright better job than us on with their PKM. From what I've read, a good condition PKM was and still is an absolutely phenomenal MMG/LMG.. even the run down raggedy PKM's used by the Taliban seem to give our troops trouble by pretty well outranging most everything we have short of snipers, heavy MG's, arty, air, etc.. then again that can easily come about from said Taliban basically always fighting from high ground/very advantageous positions. Not to even mention the atrocious design of our standard service rounds regarding BC/ballistics in comparison to some of the x54r ammo available.