Night Vision Thermal Options - Helmet, Clip-on, Scanner...?

[Ironman8]

Hey guys, looking to round out my night capabilities and need to add thermal to the mix. (Sorry in advance for the longer post, I tried to bullet point as much as possible

Current capability:
I currently have a high spec thin-film Elbit WP PVS-14 and the helmet/rifle set up to use them passive or active aiming.
Now I need a thermal, but having never using one in any capacity, I'm aware that I "don't know what I don't know" and am hoping to get some guidance.

Use Case:
Hog or predator hunting but with the understanding that this also needs to be capable of "general preparedness" and property defense in the unlikely case it's needed.

Thought Process:
- Primary use of thermal would be for detection and then possibly engaging with NV/IR Lasers...however, I know that's not optimal for pure hunting use case
- I like the idea of helmet mounted, but don't know if "dual-band" is practical with the 14 (in a navigation or dynamic role)...or if my brain will cooperate with it!
- It's possible that I try this but then end up just using it as a handheld scanner or just swiveling it down on the helmet when I want to scan with thermal
- I also like the idea of a clip on, but I don't know if clipping on and off in front of a LPVO is a repeatable endeavor.
- I can also see having a handheld or helmet mounted thermal primarily for scanning, but then a dedicated rifle with thermal scope for the actual shooting.
- If I go with a "one and done" thermal option, I'd go with a 640 core, but if I go the route above with two thermals, then it would be a 320-384 core for the scanner and then likely a dedicated 640 core scope.
- Budget-wise, I'd go with the scanner first and save for an appropriate scope. But I'd like to keep everything under $6,000-7,000 if possible.

SO...per the above....below are some options I've researched

Scanners (helmet or handheld)
- Breach
- ML-19
- AGM StingIR (384)

One and Done Scanner/scope/clip-on
- RH-25
- NOX 18 (I don't believe this can be a clip-on, but maybe have a QD attachment on a rifle to go back and forth)

Dedicated Scope
This is where I haven't done as much research, but I've come across the Bering line of scopes or the AGM Rattler line.
I suppose the NOX 18 can fit here too?

Open to any other options y'all can suggest. TIA.

 

[ST42]

Look at the Armasight Sidekick.

Night Vision - New Armasight Units (Sidekick and Jockey 640s)

We (SOK) have decided to get in some of the new Armsight units, particularly the 640 Jockey and 640 Sidekicks. https://strictlyoffensivekit.com/collections/armasight The Jockey is a thermal clipon, 640x480, 12 um, 60hz. As far as thermal clipons go, its pretty short ...

www.snipershide.com

 

[Ironman8]

Look at the Armasight Sidekick.

Night Vision - New Armasight Units (Sidekick and Jockey 640s)

We (SOK) have decided to get in some of the new Armsight units, particularly the 640 Jockey and 640 Sidekicks. https://strictlyoffensivekit.com/collections/armasight The Jockey is a thermal clipon, 640x480, 12 um, 60hz. As far as thermal clipons go, its pretty short ...

www.snipershide.com

Thanks, I actually haven't come across this option...so you're suggesting this for a one & done option? Is it repeatable taking it on and off the rifle?

Definitely will read that thread.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Hog or predator hunting but with the understanding that this also needs to be capable of "general preparedness" and property defense in the unlikely case it's needed.

The Armasight Sidekick 640 is what you seek. It is a rugged and capable device that is easily powered.

The Flir Breach used to be a good one, but the Armasight Sidekick 640 leaves it in the dust and is a great value and performer at its price point.

FYI if you ever had to make a "real world decision" after detecting a potential threat in a personal defense situation, it really is best to use IR Illumination and pointer to make the final call on friend or foe. Thermal just really does not provide the ultimate PID for those type decisions normally. Thermal rules on Detection, but NV rules on final PID for real world decisions.

These gentlemen are on this site and are top quality people to do business with.

Sidekick 640 Mini Thermal Monocular

Now shipping!! There are two bridge options possible: 1) Dual Band [For Sidekick & PVS-14] or 2) Dual Thermals [For Dual Sidekicks]. It is important you select the right one prior to checkout. DESCRIPTION The Sidekick 640 is the smallest fully multi-functional 12-micron 640 thermal imaging...

strictlyoffensivekit.com

 

[Ironman8]

Ok, after reading the first half of that thread and a couple of videos, it doesn't appear the Sidekick can be used as a clip-on...so your recommendation for this would be for the scanner option (HMT or handheld) and I'll still want a separate TWS or Clip on...correct?

Seems this is an upgraded Breach option. How does the image compare to something like the MH-25 or NOX 18? And why not go for something like the RH-25 or the StingIR 640 that has clip on capability...other than price and/or where it's made?

I'm still wondering how repeatable (POA/POI) any of these clip on devices are if you're going back and forth between scanning and shooting?

@WhereNow&How @ST42

 

[Ironman8]

FYI if you ever had to make a "real world decision" after detecting a potential threat in a personal defense situation, it really is best to use IR Illumination and pointer to make the final call on friend or foe. Thermal just really does not provide the ultimate PID for those type decisions normally. Thermal rules on Detection, but NV rules on final PID for real world decisions.

Thanks for this also...this is more or less what I could gather from reading up on thermal capabilities and how to integrate it with I2.

 

[wigwamitus]

I've been using 14 + thermal on head since ir-patrol and armasight q-14 first came out in 2015.
But the only purpose designed helmet mounted thermal that works as a real clipon (no adjustments needed) is rhe voodooS.
Given you're looking at chinese stuff, u may not be in the market for serious stuff, but you said u dont know what u dont know and wanted input.
So look at the voodooS as well.

Voodoo-S

Currently In-stock. Typically only available via backorder with a 30-60 day lead-time. The VooDoo-S is the next generation of thermal imaging system. We’ve kept what you require, improved what you asked for, and added what you’ve always desired. Feature rich, yet easy to use all under 10 oz...

strictlyoffensivekit.com

They are make to order, with a bit of a lead time, we are trying to keep a few in stock, but they sell pretty fast.

==
Otherwise, in theory, the sidekick can work as a clipon as it does have margin adjustments, but the mounting solution will have to be worked out since it isnt designed as a clipon. And i wouldnt try it on anything over 556/300BO.

 

[Rerun7]

I’ve tried just about every combination of setup I can think of and have settled on the thought process that more capabilities trump resolution for the vast majority of use cases.

For a $7k budget I’d be looking at a 384 scanner and a 384 scope. 384 units are plenty capable and by having all three you can mix and match usage plus have backup if something goes down.

Helmet mount is great if it fits in your budget but a hand scanner is way better than just a scope. Hot swapping a device onto your rifle sucks in the dark when coyotes are coming or you walk up on a group of hogs. Shooting with the laser is ok but shooting with a thermal is next level on spotting targets and shooting farther out.

 

[wigwamitus]

What we dont know is OPs terrain ?
The main clue is "Hog" which sounds like the lower tier of states.
Another clue is laser.

I've gotten about 1/3rd of criiters with laser, in close terrain (woods), far less in open.

In thickish woods, breach, 14 and coti (all on head) and laser provide full capability in most conditions (heavy precipitation is always tough for the fancy electronics).
Breach isnt great at distance, but distance not as much of a factor in thickish woods.

 

[WhereNow&How]

I’ve tried just about every combination of setup I can think of and have settled on the thought process that more capabilities trump resolution for the vast majority of use cases.

Agree that more capabilities trumps resolution most of the time. It is nice to have one longer distance high resolution thermal device if possible in case you need it. You can get there with a 320 core if you have to but with a narrow FOV. The lower square inches at 100 yard that a given pixel is sampling the higher the longer range resolution will be with thermal as a general statement all other things being close to equal.

 

[Ironman8]

I've been using 14 + thermal on head since ir-patrol and armasight q-14 first came out in 2015.
But the only purpose designed helmet mounted thermal that works as a real clipon (no adjustments needed) is rhe voodooS.
Given you're looking at chinese stuff, u may not be in the market for serious stuff, but you said u dont know what u dont know and wanted input.
So look at the voodooS as well.

Voodoo-S

Currently In-stock. Typically only available via backorder with a 30-60 day lead-time. The VooDoo-S is the next generation of thermal imaging system. We’ve kept what you require, improved what you asked for, and added what you’ve always desired. Feature rich, yet easy to use all under 10 oz...

strictlyoffensivekit.com

They are make to order, with a bit of a lead time, we are trying to keep a few in stock, but they sell pretty fast.

==
Otherwise, in theory, the sidekick can work as a clipon as it does have margin adjustments, but the mounting solution will have to be worked out since it isnt designed as a clipon. And i wouldnt try it on anything over 556/300BO.

As much as I would like a Voodoo or Skeet or whatever, I just can't justify the spend for that at this point in time. Just looking for capability and the best bang for the buck.

I’ve tried just about every combination of setup I can think of and have settled on the thought process that more capabilities trump resolution for the vast majority of use cases.

For a $7k budget I’d be looking at a 384 scanner and a 384 scope. 384 units are plenty capable and by having all three you can mix and match usage plus have backup if something goes down.

Helmet mount is great if it fits in your budget but a hand scanner is way better than just a scope. Hot swapping a device onto your rifle sucks in the dark when coyotes are coming or you walk up on a group of hogs. Shooting with the laser is ok but shooting with a thermal is next level on spotting targets and shooting farther out.

Good input, thanks. The more y'all give advice (here and other threads) and as I'm thinking about my use case, it makes sense to have two separate units. I can definitely see how hot swapping in the dark can be soup sandwich if you need to do it quick. But I still haven't seen anyone speak to the repeatability/accuracy of taking on/off a clip on. Seems guys usually always talk about the collimation headaches and POI shifts lol

What we dont know is OPs terrain ?
The main clue is "Hog" which sounds like the lower tier of states.
Another clue is laser.

I've gotten about 1/3rd of criiters with laser, in close terrain (woods), far less in open.

In thickish woods, breach, 14 and coti (all on head) and laser provide full capability in most conditions (heavy precipitation is always tough for the fancy electronics).
Breach isnt great at distance, but distance not as much of a factor in thickish woods.

This is a mixed bag but you're pretty spot on. I'm in Texas. Live in the burbs where sight lines are 100-200 yds. Have some family property in East Texas where 100-150 is usually max, unless you're overlooking a pasture. And I hunt anywhere in Texas where it can be pasture/farmland with long sightlines, to the mixed terrain of Central/West TX, to the thick East Texas terrain.

 

[wigwamitus]

... . I can definitely see how hot swapping in the dark can be soup sandwich if you need to do it quick ...

Do it hundreds of times and u wont even think about it It will just happen, like when u drive a vehicle. Even one handed with the right mount.

... But I still haven't seen anyone speak to the repeatability/accuracy of taking on/off a clip on ...

Hum, we've all been speakin' about that on here a lot over the years, not sure how u missed it !?

Here's a summary.
The military thermal clipons, msrp $10k+ plus are spot on. No adjustments needed. The commercial thermal clipons msrp < $10k require adjustments as u move from rifle to rifle. But once manually collimated on a given rifle/scope setup are repeatable with a good mount and a solid mounting process (recommend measuring your mounting process with repeated testing, so u know where u are).

For your budget, I dont recomnend a clipon. A thermal scope on a dedicated night rifle (upper if using a stoner) will be the most reliable. Also will be lighter and better balanced. And out to 300yds, u should be able to hit whatever u could hit in the day.
The thermal scope gives u more bang for the buck under $10k.

 

[Ironman8]

Do it hundreds of times and u wont even think about it It will just happen, like when u drive a vehicle. Even one handed with the right mount.



Hum, we've all been speakin' about that on here a lot over the years, not sure how u missed it !?

Here's a summary.
The military thermal clipons, msrp $10k+ plus are spot on. No adjustments needed. The commercial thermal clipons msrp < $10k require adjustments as u move from rifle to rifle. But once manually collimated on a given rifle/scope setup are repeatable with a good mount and a solid mounting process (recommend measuring your mounting process with repeated testing, so u know where u are).

For your budget, I dont recomnend a clipon. A thermal scope on a dedicated night rifle (upper if using a stoner) will be the most reliable. Also will be lighter and better balanced. And out to 300yds, u should be able to hit whatever u could hit in the day.
The thermal scope gives u more bang for the buck under $10k.

Thanks, good to know about repeatability. I’ve seen it discussed about collimating to a given rifle but I didn’t know how that would RTZ if it was being removed and installed several times a night. My frame of reference is with rifle scopes and even in good mounts, it’s usually close but not perfect.

So your recommendation is a hand/HMT scanner with a TWS? What would you recommend in the 3-4k range for a TWS?

 

[nikonNUT]

Thanks, good to know about repeatability. I’ve seen it discussed about collimating to a given rifle but I didn’t know how that would RTZ if it was being removed and installed several times a night. My frame of reference is with rifle scopes and even in good mounts, it’s usually close but not perfect.

So your recommendation is a hand/HMT scanner with a TWS? What would you recommend in the 3-4k range for a TWS?

Imma catch hell for this but I was loaned a rifle for my first yote hunt tonight and it has a Rico Bravo on it. I'll post some thoughts on it in the morning... I hope? Dude I'm going with has a heart of gold but is kinda flakey so who knows? FWIW I have an MH-25 paired with a PVS-14 on my helmet as well as an RH-25 on my rifle. 9/10 if I know the area I'm hunting I will jettison the PVS-14 becaue I know the terrain and the critters in attendance. Don't know the lay of the land or need better PID? The PVS-14 comes into play with a good IR illuminator (Thank you for that @WhereNow&How ). As for the RH-25, all I can say is that little bastage is heavy and I doubt I wouldn't want it hanging off my face for any period of time but you can drop it on concrete from about 4 feet (ask me how I know) with nary a whimper so its a mixed bag. Honestly, I hate it on my rifle as a clip-on as it makes the rig so nose heavy that a tripod is a blessing (I do have a bum shoulder). If the Armasite offerings are actually in the half pound range ready to go I will probably be swapping soon!

 

[WhereNow&How]

@nikonNUT get the AGM 5x Magnifier. With it and a Luna ELR or other good Illuminator you can make PID for a long ways out there.

Bears and hogs look very similar under Thermal if you are not careful. You definitely dont get any "atta boys" from the Game Wardens if you accidently smoke "Smokey Da Bear"

AGM Global Vision Afocal Magnifier Lens Assemblies Up to $44.00 Off w/ Free S&H — 2 models

Shop AGM Global Vision Afocal Magnifier Lens Assemblies | Up to $44.00 Off Be The First To Review AGM Global Vision Afocal Magnifier Lens Assemblies + Free Shipping over $49.

shop.opticsplanet.com

 

[wigwamitus]

... What would you recommend in the 3-4k range for a TWS?

I haven't had exactly this model, but I've had a Contractor 75mm 4.8x TWS and it was GREAT !

Here's a version that fits in to the low end of your range:

Contractor 320 3-12x25 Thermal Weapon Sight

Shop Contractor 320 3-12x25 Thermal Sight for precise sighting in a thermal scope. Armasight offers high-quality and advanced thermal weapon sights for sale.

armasight.com

And here's one towards the higher end of your range:

Contractor 320 6-24x50 Thermal Weapon Sight

Get the Contractor 320 thermal rifle scope with rangefinder from Armasight. Improve your hunting accuracy with advanced thermal imaging technology.

armasight.com

==
We can get either one of those in a week.

With a scanner + TWS strategy, you can afford to "enjoy" more magnification on the TWS, since the scanner was used to first spot the critter and more magnification on the TWS will enable faster PID on smaller critters and greater distances.

 

[nikonNUT]

@nikonNUT get the AGM 5x Magnifier. With it and a Luna ELR or other good Illuminator you can make PID for a long ways out there.

Bears and hogs look very similar under Thermal if you are not careful. You definitely dont get any "atta boys" from the Game Wardens if you accidently smoke "Smokey Da Bear"

Thank you @WhereNow&How ! That is a way better deal than the $999.00 lens I was looking at.

 

[Ironman8]

I haven't had exactly this model, but I've had a Contractor 75mm 4.8x TWS and it was GREAT !

Here's a version that fits in to the low end of your range:

Contractor 320 3-12x25 Thermal Weapon Sight

Shop Contractor 320 3-12x25 Thermal Sight for precise sighting in a thermal scope. Armasight offers high-quality and advanced thermal weapon sights for sale.

armasight.com

And here's one towards the higher end of your range:

Contractor 320 6-24x50 Thermal Weapon Sight

Get the Contractor 320 thermal rifle scope with rangefinder from Armasight. Improve your hunting accuracy with advanced thermal imaging technology.

armasight.com

==
We can get either one of those in a week.

With a scanner + TWS strategy, you can afford to "enjoy" more magnification on the TWS, since the scanner was used to first spot the critter and more magnification on the TWS will enable faster PID on smaller critters and greater distances.

Thank you Wig...so reading between the lines, it seems you would agree with @Rerun7 about not really needing a 640 TWS unit to get what you need out of it within the, lets call it, 300 yard and in range of engagement.

 

[Rerun7]

So your recommendation is a hand/HMT scanner with a TWS? What would you recommend in the 3-4k range for a TWS?

I’ve got a Bering Super Yoter 35 (640) for under $4k. Image on it is amazing.

I did have an issue with it originally and had to send it back to Bering.

I also run a Nox for HMT. Had to send it back to Nvision too. Just in image comparison the Bering is better.

I say that because a lot of guys bash on China everything but just make you get something with a good warranty. I’ve had to send in about half the thermals I’ve owned for some reason or another from various manufacturers. Seems like they are great when you get a good one but very possible to have issues. Good news is that the issues presented themselves really early on and the replacements have been good.

 

[wigwamitus]

... it seems you would agree with @Rerun7 about not really needing a 640 TWS unit to get what you need out of it within the, lets call it, 3-400 yard and in range of engagement ...

Yes, think of it this way. The 3x 640 Contractor is the same physical unit as the 6x 320 unit, except the 320 unit has a smaller FPA on the front. But to get the 640 unit up to 6x, you need to use 2x digital. I think the optical magnification on the front with the smaller core gets the better image, but they are, in theory, very close. And the 320 units are $1000 cheaper !

==

As to the wonders of the chinese units, Rerun7 and I will have to agree to disagree on those. Most of the chinese units I've had were either "unuseable by me" or "broke out of the box" ... like an AGM unit, which lost focus after every shot. Bad unuseable loss of focus after every shot. You could refocus and shoot again, but not something I would want to do for anything serious. I sent it back and they said they would fix it, but never did.

ATN unit, also broke out of the box. Blank display on black hot, 8 moa click value for zeroing, those were the 2 of the 6 issues I recall. Worked with CS, tried updating firmware, twice, no joy. CS said send it back, I did. This was one time, I felt like ATN CS was helpful !

A "genesis" A40 looked great at 40yds around the barnyard, but I took it out in a pasture and everything hot was a blob. Couldn't tell a cow from a rock, from a bale. Very blobby.

Pulsar units, 2 were good, 2 were bad. I guess its Quality Control ?

Steiner c35 ... it was decent below 8x on the day scope and 300yds in distance.

We've tried to become BO dealers and they said "Yes" but have ghosted us ever since.

We are iray dealers and some customers like them and others think they "suck".

But I mostly worry about reliability. They do have some "shock and awe" on the image at low magnification and short distances, but generally for all the ones I have, get real blurry at distance or higher magnification. Also, the chinese unit images get blurrier faster in bad weather, rain, snow, ice, high wind, etc.

I have an iray ecoti and its the only chinese unit I have that I am keeping as my own personal unit. It beats the vectronix 320 coti and so far, has worked fine. Across all the season, in rain, etc. The cows and deer have a 3D look out to 200yds, whereas they never do with the vectronix.

 

[Sgp12345]

I haven't had exactly this model, but I've had a Contractor 75mm 4.8x TWS and it was GREAT !

Here's a version that fits in to the low end of your range:

Contractor 320 3-12x25 Thermal Weapon Sight

Shop Contractor 320 3-12x25 Thermal Sight for precise sighting in a thermal scope. Armasight offers high-quality and advanced thermal weapon sights for sale.

armasight.com

And here's one towards the higher end of your range:

Contractor 320 6-24x50 Thermal Weapon Sight

Get the Contractor 320 thermal rifle scope with rangefinder from Armasight. Improve your hunting accuracy with advanced thermal imaging technology.

armasight.com

==
We can get either one of those in a week.

With a scanner + TWS strategy, you can afford to "enjoy" more magnification on the TWS, since the scanner was used to first spot the critter and more magnification on the TWS will enable faster PID on smaller critters and greater distances.

Have you looked through the contractor 640 2.3-9x35? How would the image compare to the BAE core REAP35 or nox? Armasight seems to be best bang for your $$ but I’m getting hung up on brands now

 

[wigwamitus]

The only "new" armasight I've looked thru is the contractor 640 4.8 ... and it was definitely in the BAE core ball park. I had a nox18 with me that night, but I've been a bae core bigot for 8 years, so I think those image attributes are etched in to my brain.

 

[WhereNow&How]

I’ve had to send in about half the thermals I’ve owned for some reason or another from various manufacturers. Seems like they are great when you get a good one but very possible to have issues

Dang, that sounds like getting married.

Around 50% of marriages in the US fail.

None of them come with a warranty.

Worse is disposal fees. 50% of your net worth plus continuing monthly fees.

Think I'll take me Thermal on a date tonight.

Now and then you get a good one.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Thank you @WhereNow&How ! That is a way better deal than the $999.00 lens I was looking at.

I can vouch for them. I have the 5x and it is a great unit. Slips on or screws on perfect to a PVS 14. Also excellent on a PVS 7.

 

[Rerun7]

Dang, that sounds like getting married.

Around 50% of marriages in the US fail.

None of them come with a warranty.

Worse is disposal fees. 50% of your net worth plus continuing monthly fees.

Think I'll take me Thermal on a date tonight.

Now and then you get a good one.

Haha. Maybe I’m just bad luck.

Had a Pulsar that started warping / distorting on the left side of the screen. Replaced the whole unit.

My Nox had a line right through the middle of the screen. Needed a whole new sensor. The new sensor isn’t as crisp as the old one but at least no line through it. Just seems a little “fuzzy” all the time. Disappointed but it is what it is I guess.

The Bering SY started shutting off under recoil about my 3rd hunt out. Needed a new motherboard.

Also have an AGM that won’t change contrast. Looks identical from the lowest to highest setting. Haven’t sent it in yet because the default looks pretty good.

I’ve also had other pulsars, AGM, Flir and Burris that have had no issues.

Oh, and 4 different NV units all without problems so those are batting a thousand

 

[Lowdown3]

I would definitely scratch the Breach off the list this late in the game.

Too many better options out there now and Flir never dealt with all the issues with the Breach over the years, despite raising prices on the Breach as well.

The Iray MH25 blows away the Breach IMO. It's not clip on or weapons mountable however. Look to the RH25 if you want that capability.

 

[Downtown]

Look at the Armasight Sidekick.

Night Vision - New Armasight Units (Sidekick and Jockey 640s)

We (SOK) have decided to get in some of the new Armsight units, particularly the 640 Jockey and 640 Sidekicks. https://strictlyoffensivekit.com/collections/armasight The Jockey is a thermal clipon, 640x480, 12 um, 60hz. As far as thermal clipons go, its pretty short ...

www.snipershide.com

This is an excellent review from another thread.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Agreed that the Breach is now low on the totem pole but in its defense they have served us well for a long time now and me and my friends have had zero trouble with them, but we run the battery extender with the rechargeable 16650's. We have also ran them as short range clip ons up to 556 with no issues even though they are not advertised for that role.

Flir has tossed the consumer to the side for sure. A 320 Breach (9mm fixed lens) cannot compete with the 640 MH25 (25 mm focusable lens) due to lens and FPA size. The image and detection range cannot be anywhere near as good as the 640 MH25.

But the Breach has been a rugged little shorter range device for us. At this point it would only make sense to get one in the $1,500 dollar range (probably used) and for shorter distances if a person was on a tight budget and needed a shorter range wide FOV scanner.

 

[WhereNow&How]

This is an excellent review from another thread.

Yep, Brother Stokes knocked the ball out the park with that review. Very well done.

 

[wigwamitus]

... A 320 Breach (9mm fixed lens) cannot compete with the 640 MH25 (25 mm focusable lens)

We printed up a couple of batches of focusing tools for the breach (with metal teeth !) and they work - BUTT - the disappointing part is that the adjustment range is minute, I'd say you can focus it out to maybe 50yds (from the default 25yds) but after that, while you are still moving the lens, you can't observe any change. I had been hoping we could focus them out to like 150yds, but alas, no joy in my experience.

 

[WhereNow&How]

I believe the new Armasight 640 Sidekick is gonna be "kang" for value, capability and ruggedness at this point in time for the masses of average users of these type of devices.

A very well rounded device in all departments.

 

[Ironman8]

This is an excellent review from another thread.

Great review thanks for posting it here!

 

[Ironman8]

After thinking through this a bit more, I’m weighing two options

1) get the HMT/handheld scanner like the Sidekick and use that for detection and use my I2 setup for any shooting

- this keeps things simple and within budget so that I can get familiar with thermal and my needs before getting a dedicated TWS and needing a dedicated thermal rifle

2) get a compact TWS and use it as a scanner and QD TWS and build a dedicated thermal AR upper

I think eventually I’ll have both, but what is the better practical route if you had to choose one?

Also just looking at specs, including size/weight, it seems that the AGM35-640 or BO Super Hogster fit best into option 2 in the ~$3,000 range (leaning AGM unless there’s any known issues). The Contractor 320 is a bit heavier and bulkier for what seems like less optical capability (at least on paper)…open to being schooled on that if I’m wrong. I obviously like the idea of US made, but it’s gotta be a compelling reason not to go with the other two.

 

[Zebulon]

Hey guys, looking to round out my night capabilities and need to add thermal to the mix. (Sorry in advance for the longer post, I tried to bullet point as much as possible

Current capability:
I currently have a high spec thin-film Elbit WP PVS-14 and the helmet/rifle set up to use them passive or active aiming.
Now I need a thermal, but having never using one in any capacity, I'm aware that I "don't know what I don't know" and am hoping to get some guidance.

Use Case:
Hog or predator hunting but with the understanding that this also needs to be capable of "general preparedness" and property defense in the unlikely case it's needed.

Thought Process:
- Primary use of thermal would be for detection and then possibly engaging with NV/IR Lasers...however, I know that's not optimal for pure hunting use case
- I like the idea of helmet mounted, but don't know if "dual-band" is practical with the 14 (in a navigation or dynamic role)...or if my brain will cooperate with it!
- It's possible that I try this but then end up just using it as a handheld scanner or just swiveling it down on the helmet when I want to scan with thermal
- I also like the idea of a clip on, but I don't know if clipping on and off in front of a LPVO is a repeatable endeavor.
- I can also see having a handheld or helmet mounted thermal primarily for scanning, but then a dedicated rifle with thermal scope for the actual shooting.
- If I go with a "one and done" thermal option, I'd go with a 640 core, but if I go the route above with two thermals, then it would be a 320-384 core for the scanner and then likely a dedicated 640 core scope.
- Budget-wise, I'd go with the scanner first and save for an appropriate scope. But I'd like to keep everything under $6,000-7,000 if possible.

SO...per the above....below are some options I've researched

Scanners (helmet or handheld)
- Breach
- ML-19
- AGM StingIR (384)

One and Done Scanner/scope/clip-on
- RH-25
- NOX 18 (I don't believe this can be a clip-on, but maybe have a QD attachment on a rifle to go back and forth)

Dedicated Scope
This is where I haven't done as much research, but I've come across the Bering line of scopes or the AGM Rattler line.
I suppose the NOX 18 can fit here too?

Open to any other options y'all can suggest. TIA.

I like my ptq136. Easy for me to mount with MUM-14 Armasight mounts and bridges

A friend has stingir 384

He is having trouble finding a less$ version for good helmet mount

It is coming though

I’ve had a lot of fun rat hunting at night for my neighbors farm