They look cool but how do they shoot? .338 lapua

darwinlee

darwinlee

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Minuteman
Jan 17, 2012
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#1
There seem to be alot of really nice .338lapua chambered guns out there. Back in the day all I ever wanted was a Dakota Arm T-76 Long Range Engagement Rifle chambered for the .338. I think the only other choice was a Sako TRG or AI rifle. Now Barret, Remington, Savage, and the old lady next door seem to make a rifle chambered for the cartridge. I walked with a Savage 111 Long Range Hunter for just under $900... Still haven't grouped it.

My question is, they Barret's MRAD and M98B, and the Remington MSR all look really cool and space age. And carry a heafty price tag. And I'm about saved up to be in the market, and was seriously considering dumping the $k on a 98B. But is it going to shoot any better than my cheap savage? I mean seriously, from the google search I'm reading like 1.5MOA and .75MOA on the better side.... For $4000 I kinda figure I can probably have a rifle build that shoots better than 1.5 huh?
 
#2
Re: They look cool but how do they shoot? .338 lapua

That's disappointing to hear that the precision on the Barret and the Remmy aren't stellar, because I agree they both "look" badass. I went with a TRG-42 from Eurooptic.... Alex was running an awesome deal a few months back. I think I paid $2400 for a plain jane black one. I haven't rigged it up and shot it yet but I have fondled it a bit and I have to say it's probably the best balanced rifle I've had in my hands other than a friends T2K that I shot once. My other rigs are all AICS based.
 
#3
Re: They look cool but how do they shoot? .338 lapua

They kick HARD and are expensive to shoot. Many tactical matches wont allow the 338 as it dents the steel. 338 is for the guy that has a 308 and 260 or so already and wants more. They are big.
 
#4
Re: They look cool but how do they shoot? .338 lapua

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sniperaviator</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They kick HARD and are expensive to shoot. Many tactical matches wont allow the 338 as it dents the steel. 338 is for the guy that has a 308 and 260 or so already and wants more. They are big.
</div></div>

TRG with the brake is similar to my buddies 300WM without a brake, stiff but not ridiculous, worst I had was a 300 rem ultra mag with a sporter profile barrel, too painful for prone and on the bench with the scope forward to the limit of eye relief would still come back to hit my glasses, put a brake on it that calmed it down but never got any accuracy so dumped it - never missed it


for the OP


this is from another post on the cost of use at the low end of the spectrum
once fired brass 1.50 -----------------.17
300 SMK ---------------------------.50
powder by the 8lb--------------------.25
primer-----------------------------.05
barrel wear-------------------------.33
total-------------------------------1.30 per squeeze

thats not counting load development or supplies that do not work out,

my point being, there is not to much reason to spend the $$$ on the rifle or the squeeze without getting results downrange

a component built single shot ( the bighorn long action set up with a spare barrel or 2 looks interesting) or the TRG for a repeater is about the minimum that makes sense to get the performance that matches the price
 
#5
Re: They look cool but how do they shoot? .338 lapua

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lee Blackman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There seem to be alot of really nice .338lapua chambered guns out there. Back in the day all I ever wanted was a Dakota Arm T-76 Long Range Engagement Rifle chambered for the .338. I think the only other choice was a Sako TRG or AI rifle. Now Barret, Remington, Savage, and the old lady next door seem to make a rifle chambered for the cartridge. I walked with a Savage 111 Long Range Hunter for just under $900... Still haven't grouped it.

My question is, they Barret's MRAD and M98B, and the Remington MSR all look really cool and space age. And carry a heafty price tag. And I'm about saved up to be in the market, and was seriously considering dumping the $k on a 98B. But is it going to shoot any better than my cheap savage? I mean seriously, from the google search I'm reading like 1.5MOA and .75MOA on the better side.... For $4000 I kinda figure I can probably have a rifle build that shoots better than 1.5 huh? </div></div>

There are questions on those "accuracy" claims:

1. Factory or handloads?
2. How experienced is the shooter and handling the recoil of the .338?

With my handloads my TRG easily shoots near .5 MOA to at least 300 yds sure I've had a few times where I've done better with that load, but that's more about my lack of consistency than the rifle. Beyond that I've only shot steel so I'm not really going for groups. I'm the weak link in the chain and can't always hold .5 MOA but the rifle is more than up to the task.
 
#6
Re: They look cool but how do they shoot? .338 lapua

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sniperaviator</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They kick HARD and are expensive to shoot. Many tactical matches wont allow the 338 as it dents the steel. 338 is for the guy that has a 308 and 260 or so already and wants more. They are big.
</div></div>

Apparently you haven't shot one with a nice, aggressive brake. I was shocked by how low the recoil was on an AR-30 I just shot last weekend. If it wasn't for the price per round issue, I would love to have one.
 
#7
Re: They look cool but how do they shoot? .338 lapua

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lee Blackman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I walked with a Savage 111 Long Range Hunter for just under $900... Still haven't grouped it.
For $4000 I kinda figure I can probably have a rifle build that shoots better than 1.5 huh? </div></div>

Take your 111-LRH that you already own and have the action face trued, send the action to Bartlein for a good barrel and bed it into a McM A-5 and you will have plenty of $$$ left in your budget for a scope and reloading components. The LRH is a fine action to build off of with a little tweaking. RWS will true the action face for $125 http://www.rwsgunsmithing.com/gunsmithing-services
 
#8
Re: They look cool but how do they shoot? .338 lapua

I can't address any of the other rifles with the exception of the TRG42. Euro Optics still has .338LMs at $2600. For this you get a rifle specifically designed for tactical use with an excellent trigger, ergonomic and adjustable stock, short bolt throw, threaded muzzzle and a high degree of reliability.

My rifle has a grand total of 15 rounds through it. The initial handload is 250SMK, 91gr.s of H1000, 3.68OAL, CCI250 primer and once fired Lapua brass. This is a mild 2800FPS load. Slow powder and a sub-max load should produce reasonable barrel life and calculating barrel life into cost per round is a little unusual. Without barrel wear, the cost per round is about a buck which compares favorably to .308 175gr FGMM.

With the factory break, my 15.8lb. .338LM has less felt recoil than my unbraked, 13.2lb. .308 with 175gr SW Ammo. No recoil pad on either rifle.

The TRG is stupid accurate. Remember only 15 rounds and no load development (well, I did check around here for a suggested starting load). The last nine rounds are three three-shot groups at .667, .187 and .565.

TRG $2600.
Used 5-20 SWFA $1200.00
Base and rings $200.00 +/-.
Brake of choice at ?$.

That's pretty close to your number.

Whatever you decide on you'll love the .338LM, it's a great cartridge.
 
#9
Re: They look cool but how do they shoot? .338 lapua

My 98 bravo with hornady 250 grn bthp .5 moa. With handloads and 300 grn matchking and h1000 pushing them .3 moa. And the brake tames the beast very well.
 
#10
Re: They look cool but how do they shoot? .338 lapua

For the money the Savage shoots great and will do .5-.75 MOA all day with Hornady .285gr match ammo factory loads. Mine and my buddies both love it. You can find the ammo for $75 a box sell the "once fired" brass for $20 for the box and now your at $55 a box or about $2.50 a shot. With the YHM Phantom can mine kicks like a 12g with slugs so after 5-10 rounds your done. Plus unless you have a place to go past 1K its a waste of a gun and ammo, mine really beats my AR 500 steel up at 850 and its 4 mils less elevation than my .308 at 1k. Its a great gun to shot but I shoot my .308 way more from 100-1K the .338LPm is more of a novelty since I have no place to go much past 1k YMMV


Untitled by Practical Tactical Firearms, on Flickr
 
#11
Re: They look cool but how do they shoot? .338 lapua

Savage makes an accurate rifle, however the 111 long range hunter uses a lighter weight barrel.

The MRAD, SRS, 98B, TRG42, all use a heavier profile barrels and very high end type stocks.

The difference between a .75" and 1.5" rifle is very noticeable at distance. Also as others have pointed out the high end .338 offerings are often shooting around .5"

If you are wanting to take advantage of the .338 Long Range capabilities, the Savage 110 FCP in .338 with HS precision stock, would be a great starting point. If you have little more to spend, then I would look at buying a SAKO TRG42. As you start looking at rifles that are more expensive than the TRG42, in my opinion, your bang for you buck starts to diminish.

If you need switch caliber capability, then the DTA SRS or MRAD may make sense for you.

I am a huge Savage and TRG fan, but went with a DTA SRS for my .338 long gun. I wanted the switch caliber capability and it has allowed me to consolidate 3 rifles into one.

Buy what makes sense for you and get out shooting.
 
#13
Re: They look cool but how do they shoot? .338 lapua

I'm not an expert in .338 but I had a Fam-Fire with one once at a sniper school. It was a McMillan Tac-338 rifle in an A5 with suppressor with Ruag ammo. Very nice gentle push into the shoulder was about it. With the can it had less muzzle flip and recoil than my unsuppressed 308.

It was a very nice rifle. It is the only McMillan Rifle or .338 that I have fired but I was impressed with their work.
 
#14
Re: They look cool but how do they shoot? .338 lapua

Mine has a badger thruster brake and is a fairly heavy rifle. Recoil is not bad, but like mentioned, pricey to shoot.
For what it's worth, I have less into the rifle than your 4k mark and it shoots plenty well enough. .4-.7 MOA I would call pretty average. There might be a little tweaking room in the loads, but honestly I am happy where it is.

I will say it moves the steel way out there a lot more than than the 308 lol.
 
#15
Re: They look cool but how do they shoot? .338 lapua

If I'm going to dump $4k just in the rifle, no optics, no nothing, shouldn't it be capable of doing the same? When I read a 1moa guarantee, thats like a kick in the balls for $4k... I mean thats 15 inches at 1000 yards.... 15 inches is like useless... I couldn't long range deer hunt with a 1 moa gun... Let alone justify 4k... My $650 Remington 700 SBS Tactical shoots better than that...

Now a half MOA... well thats a different story.. Specially with factory loads.
 
#16
Re: They look cool but how do they shoot? .338 lapua

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lee Blackman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I'm going to dump $4k just in the rifle, no optics, no nothing, shouldn't it be capable of doing the same? When I read a 1moa guarantee, thats like a kick in the balls for $4k... I mean thats 15 inches at 1000 yards.... 15 inches is like useless... I couldn't long range deer hunt with a 1 moa gun... Let alone justify 4k... My $650 Remington 700 SBS Tactical shoots better than that...

Now a half MOA... well thats a different story.. Specially with factory loads.

</div></div>

math review: moa approx = 1 inch per 100 yds

the guarantee is for the gun with a matched factory load that is effectively a handload - not for the results with you shooting it

guns are for sale, ammo is for sale, optics are for sale, training is for sale ---skill is not for sale

those who want to sell something lie, folks on the net lie, when clean paper is posted, the shots are fired and you go downrange to look at the paper, thats when the lies stop - take the rest for what it is
 
#17
Re: They look cool but how do they shoot? .338 lapua

Yea sorry I mean 1.5 MOA... as I posted in my first post. I'm a crappy typer, but you got the point anyway.

And ya, skill is not for sale. Needless to say someone with the right skill can probably lob a turd 100 yards with a slingshot and get a headshot on a moving victim...

All I'm saying is, Dollar Value, do you get what you pay for, or are you just paying for name and hype in the new space guns... Barret MRAD, M98B, and Remington MSR? Thats all I was asking from the get go... Not the lecture on how expensive the 338 is to shoot, not how much recoil it has, not the total newb reaction that I got...

6852924417_b25a4e60f9_z.jpg


If someone could give me the actual function of dollar to MOA performace, that would be just fine to
wink.gif
 
#19
Re: They look cool but how do they shoot? .338 lapua

Are you guys with .308 shooting a 4lb rifle? Because there is no way in hell the recoil is less than an unbraked .308 the only thing remotely close is using a fat bastard brake from APA on a .338LM.

The recoil isn't horrendous but it'll move you a little and more than a standard tac .308 with a Rem Varmint/MEd Palma contour barrel.

.338 suppressed slows the recoil impulse to more of a push, but the impulse is a little bit longer( it lasts a little longer). I've shot several braked and suppressed TRG42's in .338 and I have a Rem 700 and TRG22 in .308 which I've run unbraked, with the factory brake, RAD and Muscle Brake and the .338 will move your shoulder more every time.

I'd like to know how it's physically possible to have less recoil in a cartridge where a mild load charge weight of powder for 250gr bullets is just shy of double a .308 without making it a 25-30lb prone pig of a rifle?

Do a simple test....Can you hold and see your impacts on target with a .308 at 50 yds - 300 yds? Now try the same with a .338 - a bit more difficult isn't it? Where's the extra movement coming from... Spin Drift?
whistle.gif
 
#20
Re: They look cool but how do they shoot? .338 lapua

My Rem has a lot of recoil. I know the stock brake is not very effective. The recoil is different than say a 300WSM which I find sharp and quick. Its more of a heavy push...my feet fequently come off the ground when sitting at our ranges bench with the 338 not too bad but not pleasent
 
#23
Re: They look cool but how do they shoot? .338 lapua

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sniperaviator</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They kick HARD and are expensive to shoot. Many tactical matches wont allow the 338 as it dents the steel. 338 is for the guy that has a 308 and 260 or so already and wants more. They are big.
</div></div>
Pretty obvious that you have not shot one. I have shot my trg42 from the standing on many occasions. Only thing that keeps me from doing it more often is its total weight of rifle and nightforce 56mm nxs... Surefire brake keeps it more tame than my Remington xr-100 308 without a brake.

Rifle shoots well and averages .5moa as claimed with my handloads. When i do my part.. And the 300 Secnars destroy a 1 inch steel target at 800 yards.. True, to it being a 1k yard gun and beyond. If you shoot it less than that... its kinda pointless.. But its "to each his own".. I wouldnt trade my TRG for anything....
 
#24
Re: They look cool but how do they shoot? .338 lapua

The 338 is the Ultimate round, especially in a military and tactical context.

It's the best one shot solution, but even then it has it's drawbacks like anything else, if that means, cost, recoil, etc, so be it, but ultimately it is the king of LR.
 
#25
Re: They look cool but how do they shoot? .338 lapua

I would highly recommend you look at a Surgeon Rifles built XL action 338.

If I told you group sizes, you would think I'm lying.

Suffice to say that sub 1/2 min groups at distance are consistently possible with the right driver.

Call them, I guarantee you won't be sorry.
 
#26
Re: They look cool but how do they shoot? .338 lapua

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lee Blackman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I'm going to dump $4k just in the rifle, no optics, no nothing, shouldn't it be capable of doing the same? When I read a 1moa guarantee, thats like a kick in the balls for $4k... I mean thats 15 inches at 1000 yards.... 15 inches is like useless... I couldn't long range deer hunt with a 1 moa gun... Let alone justify 4k... My $650 Remington 700 SBS Tactical shoots better than that...

Now a half MOA... well thats a different story.. Specially with factory loads.

</div></div>

DTA guarantees half MOA and from my experience you will see that accuracy out of an SRS. I have also shot Sako TRG's that are half MOA guns too. I am sure the MRAD is a shooter as well.

The Savage that you purchased should be a shooter as well. Go out and shoot it. If you find you need something more, I suggest you look at the TRG for the next step up in price/performance. From my experience the TRG will run with the best of what is out there.

If you want to spend more than the $3k that a TRG42 will run, then you should be getting something that is built to your specs or offers some sort of capability that the TRG does not have.

I currently own a DTA, because I was impressed with the rifle when I was able to try it out and because I value the ability to swap calibers and train with the same rifle/scope using a less expensive/punishing round.
 
#27
Re: They look cool but how do they shoot? .338 lapua

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lee Blackman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If someone could give me the actual function of dollar to MOA performace, that would be just fine to
wink.gif
</div></div>

ok lets take a stab at this: lets say for an equal shooter and all with good factory or handload ammo at 600 yds

to me these are the practical alternatives:

bare bones set up: savage or rem, 1K scope, basic rings, bipod, etc 2500 total--- 3/4 - 1 moa

TRG fully equipped with brake, bipod, good rings, 2K scope-6500 total-----------1/2 moa


component built single shot with a good basic set up, 2K scope - 6500 total -------------1/4 -1/2 moa

component cadillac build: magazine fed, atlas bipod, plenty of extra magazines, 3K scope, nice case to hold it all----10,000 total--1/4-1/2moa

AIAW fully set up, 3K scope------------------11,000 total-----------------1/2 moa----WARNING-if you pull up to the range in a hummer and pull this out everyone will think you are compensating for a small weiner!

so you see, like always a diminishing return of precision per $ spent on the rifle

the point you are missing (why I bring up the price of ammo) the real cost of any rifle is always the ammo

In this comparison all systems had the same ammo cost, if you actually shoot the 338 (which mostly no one does) lets say 5000 rds over 5 years with any of the systems you will have 7000 in ammo/barrel costs and the depreciation of all the systems will be similar: 2500-3000 as the basic setups will need breakage repairs/scope replacements while the high end systems are unlikely to break but will still loose value

so if you are going to shoot 50 rds, let it sit for 2 yrs and sell it a basic set up makes sense, if you actually use it, the long term cost of the mid priced alternatives with 1/2 moa expectations is about the same as the low end with 1 moa expectations

 
#28
Re: They look cool but how do they shoot? .338 lapua

You can also get some very good deals on used AI .338 rifles, they offer excellent accuracy and a ruggedness factor that is hard to beat. They will come in around 17 pounds with scope and such but the recoil is easy to handle with the factory brake.

The .338 is great for when you want to shoot a long long way, or want to have less wind drift or want a ton of impact on the target. If it's mostly for paper punching at up to say 1200 yards then a .243 or similar will be lots cheaper to feed.
 
#29
Re: They look cool but how do they shoot? .338 lapua

I shot a .338 Lapua built on a Defiance action a couple months ago and I dont remember the brand of brake it had. But it had considerably less FELT recoil than my stock 700P. It was a dream to shoot. I fired about 50 rounds through it that day and had no sore shoulder. Will definately be getting one someday soon.
 
#30
Re: They look cool but how do they shoot? .338 lapua

I think everyone’s trying to out do the other somewhat.

If a feller wants to shoot a 338 Lapua – because it’s cool – let him. We all have had dreams of the ultimate gun to carry and shoot with, some are more justifiable then others but we all wanted it one time or another and to steer him into something different only causes a waste in money getting what you wanted in the first place.

Yes the 338 Lapua is a little spendy to shoot, but with an open mind it can be had.
Good gun choices for average shooting the AR30 or Savage factory guns would work.
A project gun with a good stock, solid action and barrel with a break can be built at a little more cash yet shoot extremely well for the average shooter. You don’t need to slap a 3000.00 scope on a gun to shoot well out to 1000.

And then you can get crazy with a gun build.

Ammo can be had by Factory loads and custom loaders for anything comparable to buying Weatherby stuff and beyond. Once you’re settled in and had a chance to save your brass you can research and start to accumulate good reloading equipment and start to get down in the $1.30 range give or take and still have a blast shooting.


For what its worth I have a 338 Lapua and have shot well past 1760 yards, it does well and with that I am in the middle of building a 260 that I am really looking forward to shooting as well


Kick, recoil, muzzle blast?

My Barrett shooting the 300 gr Scenars
Barrett factory break – a solid push back with the sonic wave diverted back at a 45 degree angle lending to more noise and dirt hitting your prone shooting partner and bystanders
The solid push comparable to a 12 gauge shotgun

My same gun and load with a 4 Port Muscle Brake
A sharper push but very comparable to the factory with the gases going straight out the sides thus, less blast and noise to the shooter or partner

My same gun and load with a Thunder Beast Arms Corp. – 338P-1
The recoil is like a 28 gauge less then a 20 and the report is of a 22 LR
An accurate and sweet gun to shoot, my loads I think average $1.13 I think very affordable for shooting steel or whatever on a large cal. Gun.

Some may pick this apart but whatever. Research and build what you want and have fun with it; I guarantee you will want more.


oneshot.onehit

Barrett 98B 338 Lapua, Vortex Razor with a TBAC 338P-1
 
#32
Re: They look cool but how do they shoot? .338 lapua

I have three rifles that are used at 600yd bench competition. Each of them will shoot .5moa at that range. A Remington 700 308 tuned up, Remington 700 300 Win Mag bench gun and a Barrett 98B. On a good day all will do better then that.
It comes down to the energy you want to put on target. The 98 took more work to figure it out ,and of course it costs more to shoot, but when it sits on the line every one knows it. With an AWC ThunderTrap it is a people magnet. It's a match winner. So it comes down to where do you want to be. I bought the 98 because of value after the sale,and would do it again.
 
#33
Re: They look cool but how do they shoot? .338 lapua

I shoot the savage 110ba in .338. Only mods are leupold 8x25x50 mark 4 sitting on egw 30 moa base. Shooting berger 300gr otm with 94.5 gr of h1000 in lapua cases and cci mag primers. She shoots nice. 3 rounds at 1760 yds inside 18 inches. 500 yard groups are inside 3". It is zeroed at 500. I could have bought the barrett or just about any other but i want to try to out shoot my buddies with the richer guns. I have done that and they hate it!
 
#34
Re: They look cool but how do they shoot? .338 lapua

Aw just do it, if you can shoot and make it count just purchase one. Make your abilities better, hell when the Sharps came out a lot of cow hands and hunters bitched about the cost of the weapon and ammo. To this day though it struck its time and place in firearms history on what it can do. Ammo prices on the 338 will go down over time, but for right now it is high because it is a small market of shooters that have one in their inventory.
 
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