Thinking about a .223 remington bolt gun. Have questions

S

surffly

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Sep 30, 2013
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#1
Well thinking about adding bolt 223 to the safe.
Idea is to simplify calibers.

I shoot a white oak AR so I have brass and such.

Want to keep with remington, have had good luck with them and will keep things simple for parts.

Looking at
-SPS Varmint
-SPS tactical
-SPS AAC-SD

Since I shoot the heavier stuff out of the AR I figure the varmint twist is out. So that leaves the 20 vs 16.5 barrel question. Guess it doesn't matter all that much.

Not looking to set any distance records, more looking to drive tacks in the 200-350 yard range.

Since price is something to think of, the varmint is $500 after rebate and the tacticals are about $100 more.

Am I going to see this rifle and caliber as redundant to my .308?
Other thought is that since I'm in NY I'll need something to shoot all the 223 I have around since my AR is going to be an issue here in two weeks.....

What would you buy and why?
Thanks
 
#2
well the varmint as you said has the 12 twist so if you shoot heavies id throw it out even though its cheaper. It also has a garbage stock. The Hogue isn't amazing but it has pillars and free floats for the time being. Is it redundant to a 308? Hell no. Zero recoil and probably the most pleasant caliber to shoot in a bolt gun. 10+ rounds before that barrel even heats up. Between the 20 and 16.5 just depends on what kinda speed you want and whether you want to throw it in a folder and have a tiny rife or not. If no folder is in the future id just go 20. Then move out of NY and reclaim your AR.
 
#3
Agree with bkw above, give NY an "up yours!"

But .223 is going to be so cheap for you to shoot, and recoil is nothing. Fun to shoot! I've been toying with the idea of putting together a nice little .223 myself...and I have all kinds of calibers laying around. .223 just makes sense.
 
#4
We have a varmint out here in 308, that stock is retarded. Flimsy as hell and the forearm is touching the barrel all around. Get that tac or aac, whichever you can find a deal on...
Best of luck to you in NY, you're going to need it.
 
#6
I figured the varmint was not going to fit the bill.

No folders or any of that.
Have an AAC-SD 20in 308
Thought the same was available in 223, but all I see is the 16.5

Since my AR is a 20 I guess I'm better off with the 20in SPS tactical, wish they made a AAC-SD in 223 with the 20in barrel though.

What are the pros and cons of the 16.5 and 20 barrels?
 
#9
surffly said:
Guess I don't need the handiness of the 16.5

Wish they made an AAC-SD in 223 with the 20in barrel thought.
Click to expand...

Well...........I was always a long barreled guy- nearly all my varmint rifles had 24" to 27" barrels. Then I bought one of Remington's 16.5" in .223 and it quickly became one of my favorite rifles. I use it with a suppressor, and the overall length is still a little bit shorter than most of my other varmint rifles. Handy to move around inside a pickup truck, too. :) I also have a 5R with a 20" barrel, and 9 times out of 10 I usually reach for the 16.5" I think you'd like it.
 
#11
Awhile ago I was looking for a similar rifle. I would suggest skipping all mentioned and look for a used rem 700 xcr compact tactical. They have 1x9 twist, stainless with a black coating, and come with a hs stock, and 40x trigger.
If you think of ( stock upgrade 225-1000's, trigger upgrade 100+, they quickly become reasonable.

I found one used a couple of years ago for 675, threw a leupold mk4 4.5x14x50 lrt on it and have ran everything from 45 grain win white box to 75 grain hornady BTHP through it. It was one that would have never been sold as it did legitimately shoot under .75 for 5 shots routinely with both 52 gr sierras, 53 v max, 68 hotnady bthp, 69 gr sierra, and 75 gr hornady bthp. Sadly it was destoyed in my home fire.

Good luck to you,
 
#13
For 200-350 yds, no question I'd go with the shorter barrel. I only recently discovered the .223, and now I wonder why I didn't have one years ago. In terms of general utility, plinking, target shooting, etc., it beats the .308 hands down (and I'm a pretty big .308 fan). The comparatively minimal powder, muzzle blast, and lead expended means that you can shoot it all day long. And it has plenty in the way of ballistics for the general use most people subject a rifle to.
 
#14
Just bought a SPS Tactical 223... I have been AMAZED at the accuracy this thing has!

I just put a Timney 510 on it with a Vortex PST 10x and its .5 moa all day long with 53 and 55 AMAXs as well as the 75gr Hornadys!

Everything I have read said that the 1:9 wasn't enough for the 75gr Hornadys but dam they group like no other out of this thing! You will NOT be disappointed one bit out of a good 223 SPS Tactical!
 
#16
I am 100% a noob when it comes to precision shooting and only have maybe 200 rounds down range total under my belt.

But I would say that the SPS Tactical is pretty god dam accurate, especially if someone actually knew what they were doing behind it!

On my Shooter App, after importing the weather from station it said 18 mph @ .4 mils Left but Accuweather claims 29 mph and I ended up having to do .7 mils Left.

Take it or leave it, for $500 rifle and $15 bucks a box... thing has been a lot of fun to shoot and I couldn't keep it still for shit when the wind blowing so dam hard!



 
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#18
As other have said, if you load the ammo for both the bolt gun and the AR's the same, the velocity of the round is within 150 FPS.
If you intend to load the ammo for the bolt gun differently, then you can get some good gains out of the bolt platform....
I had some chrono rounds at 3450 FPS from a 24" rifle... We used the same ammo in a 16" gun and the MV was 2850... the powder was too slow for the shorter barrel.... Nice fireball as well

For bench and prone guns:
I prefer a longer barrel as you have more weight that helps with minimizing the effect of recoil on the shooters Natural Point of Aim...
I prefer longer barrels as the Sound Pressure wave is further from my ears and they are quieter...
You can use slower powders when developing loads to find a faster load that is accurate...


Just my bias....

The charts below and most of the comparisons I have seen are using NATO/ Mil spec ammo... modern ammo built around passing specs from the M4's 14 1/2" barrel.

Some PMC and Chinese ammo shows a major fireball at night... my guess is that the slower burning powders would have a greater Muzzle Velocity delta when chrono testing barrels from 26" down to the M4 model...



Effect of Barrel Length on Muzzle Velocity of 5.56x45 NATO ammunition
1.png


3.png
 
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#19
Reloading for the bolt gun differently wouldn't be an issue.
Thought things would be easier if my bolt and AR had the same 20in barrel.
But that might not actually be true
 
#28
On the other hand I could just buy different projectiles when reloading for the varmint.
What's the efective range on that set up?

But there is more the. $100 value in the houge stock and threading of the AAC-sd
 
#29
The Hogue is garbage.

Threading will run you about $100, but if you have somebody like GAP do it, you know its right. Factory threading you hope is right. The threading probably isn't of any value to you in NY anyway.

The $100 you save can be put toward a better stock. H-S take-offs are about $200-250 second-hand or you could get a B&C for $220-250 new. Either of those is superior to the Hogue.
 
#30
I don't mind the hogue on my 308.
It is free floated.
I do agree that there are better stocks though.

Threading is fine on a bolt gun in NY, but no cans.
 
#31
Genhawk said:
I am 100% a noob when it comes to precision shooting and only have maybe 200 rounds down range total under my belt.

But I would say that the SPS Tactical is pretty god dam accurate, especially if someone actually knew what they were doing behind it!

On my Shooter App, after importing the weather from station it said 18 mph @ .4 mils Left but Accuweather claims 29 mph and I ended up having to do .7 mils Left.

Take it or leave it, for $500 rifle and $15 bucks a box... thing has been a lot of fun to shoot and I couldn't keep it still for shit when the wind blowing so dam hard!



Click to expand...

I hate to burst your bubble, but those are far from impressive groups for a 223 at 100 yards, factory or otherwise.
 
#34
I know this doesn't simplify calibers, and it muddies the waters a bit. If i were to buy my first "smaller caliber" bolt gun and I reloaded (this matters), I'd buy a 22-250. It's much flatter shooting than a .223 and brass is easily available. It uses the same bullets and powder, you load 37 grains instead of 25.5g (pick your powder, you get the idea). I have a few 24" and 26" bolt .223s and a .220 swift (very similar to 22-250), the faster cartridge will get more hits on smaller targets out past a few hundred yards. I hate missed shots (the higher velocity of the larger cartridge is more forgiving), and a braked .22x bolt rifle is something to behold.
 
#35
19Scout77 said:
I hate to burst your bubble, but those are far from impressive groups for a 223 at 100 yards, factory or otherwise.
Click to expand...

So an average of .5-.75 MOA for 5 groups on the same target done by a new shooter with a rifle that's most likely in the shitty hogue stock is crap?

I guess the guy doesn't realize that we're all Carlos Hathcocks and shoot consistent .0006 MOA 5 shot groups at 100 yards with fucking blow dart guns.
 
#36
hollowoutadime said:
I know this doesn't simplify calibers, and it muddies the waters a bit. If i were to buy my first "smaller caliber" bolt gun and I reloaded (this matters), I'd buy a 22-250. It's much flatter shooting than a .223 and brass is easily available. It uses the same bullets and powder, you load 37 grains instead of 25.5g (pick your powder, you get the idea). I have a few 24" and 26" bolt .223s and a .220 swift (very similar to 22-250), the faster cartridge will get more hits on smaller targets out past a few hundred yards. I hate missed shots (the higher velocity of the larger cartridge is more forgiving), and a braked .22x bolt rifle is something to behold.
Click to expand...

And you're limited to bullets that will stabilize in a 1:14 twist that's common on almost every 22-250 and you can kiss your barrel goodby in 1500 rounds or less. Flat shooting also doesn't mean a thing if it's got as much wind drift as a piss stream but it sure sounds good in guns and ammo.
 
#38
redneckbmxer24 said:
And you're limited to bullets that will stabilize in a 1:14 twist that's common on almost every 22-250 and you can kiss your barrel goodby in 1500 rounds or less. Flat shooting also doesn't mean a thing if it's got as much wind drift as a piss stream but it sure sounds good in guns and ammo.
Click to expand...

Well there's a whole bunch of 52 and 55 gr bullets that stabilize very well in that 1:14 twist, and so tell that to my 1995 40x is way beyond the "1500 burn out the throat myth". It usually shoot's 5 in about dime, When you get out to 400-500 yds on a tennis ball sized target that doesn't stick around for repeat shots, it's a good companion.

BTW, be nice. I have an AI .260, several 30's, and larger. shoot almost every weekend.
 
#39
surffly said:
I don't mind the hogue on my 308.
It is free floated.
I do agree that there are better stocks though.

Threading is fine on a bolt gun in NY, but no cans.
Click to expand...

The hogue doesn't float when you stick a bipod on it. Been there, done that.

What's the point of threaded bolt action .223s if no suppressor? Not like you'll need a brake for sight picture.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#40
I see your point with the threading.
Guess I just like options and dream of living in a free state one day.

As for the stock, mine remains floated on a bi pod, but with not that much force it will contact the barrel.
 
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