Thinking about a DPMS in 308

Intrepid4576

Intrepid4576

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Minuteman
Jul 12, 2011
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Honesdale, PA, USA
#1
I did a search and didnt find much in terms of review's or problems

So please if you know about these rifles pass on your knowledge (reliability is my biggest concern)

If you have something neg to say about it PLEASE PROVIDE DETAILS - just making some stupid claim "these rifles suck ill never own them again" is retarded and worthless - either provide details or dont post anything

Basically im looking to use it as a CQC out to extended ranges....well see how far i can effective push it
smile.gif


really just looking for a good all around rifle

I was looking at this one http://dpmsinc.3dcartstores.com/308-ORACLE-ATACS_ep_98-1.html

yes im running the 16in barrel idea - as stated im thinking CQC out to as far as i can push it so the 20+ in barrels wont fit my desires to well

Any intelligent feedback or suggestions (even if its to look at a different brand) will be highly appreciated as long as good reasons are given

Thank you
 
#2
Re: Thinking about a DPMS in 308

They are a great rifle for the money. I've owned two...one recently was parted out here on the EE to fund another project...but I had many rounds down the tube on the first one I owned. The 1/10 barrels love the heavy pills, 168s and up. Feed it good ammunition, swap the trigger out, and I think you'll find it more than adaquate for your requirements.
 
#3
Re: Thinking about a DPMS in 308

I purchased on a few months back. At the price is just used it as a starter. I changed to a troy free float tube, adj gas block, Miculek Break , Magpul MOE stock.

The break and gas block were to reduce recoil and gas. The DPMS is way over gassed. I was getting extractor marks with 168 Fedral match kings. The stock is not built for prone. Is was stupid and put my left hand in the standard understock position and it colasped when I pulled the trigger MOE solved problem.

Accuracy so far is .75 " 5 shot at 100, I have had no issue with the function of the rifle. My total round count is around 150 do far.

For the price I paid new I would purchase again
 
#4
Re: Thinking about a DPMS in 308

As the owner of an LMT MWS an Armalite 10A4 and a DPMS SASS of the 3 I like the DPMS SASS the best. It shoots 0.5" 5 shot groups @ 100 yards, the JP trigger is great and it is the most accurate of the 3.
 
#6
Re: Thinking about a DPMS in 308

I've got an LR308AP4 and an LR6.5. I have a JP trigger in the 6.5cm, and it's great as my long range target rifle. I enjoy the AP4 quite a bit too. Stock trigger in that one. Not as many rounds down the barrel, but I still enjoy it quite a bit.

I have not owned any of the other more premium based AR's. I think my DPMS rifles work very well. Do they work 90% as well as the premium rifles? I certainly think so. With a cost of about 50% less (or so), I think is a great value. Leaves funding for other things.

Is my thinking flawed?
 
#7
Re: Thinking about a DPMS in 308

Well the above comments all had more experience than me. I just recently (and finally) completed my DPMS .308 rifle. Had the lower completed THREE YEARS AGO, and finally found a completed new upper from Midway last week to complete the rifle. It's the AP4 Flat Top with 16" Heavy Barrel, forward assist/dust guard receiver. My plan for it is same as yours. A CQC rifle with More Knock Down Power/Mid Range Precision Capabilities. I think 16" Barrel is Perfect for this role (Larue OBR .308 is 16" Barrel and it is a Freaken Monster and Tac Driver).

A couple of things I've noticed though. The Barrel is not Chrome Lined (If this is something you'd prefer or want). And for a CQC rifle, the .308 is pretty chunky and hefty to maneuver Quickly for CQC work (If you're a Hoss then this shouldn't be a issue either). Reliability wise, I've done a lot of reading and research over the past couple of years. Mostly though are pretty positive especially for the price these comes. I would however recommend to use carefully selected parts when you do modify it and make sure it works out reliably. Most of the issues people had with these rifles are because they modify it out of spec from the factory.

My plans is to get the Troy Free Float Battle Rail for mine, and a Adjustable Butt Stock (I have the regular fixed one right now), and a flexible close to mid range scope and be done with it.

If you're looking for some detailed input from a reliable and in depth user check out the Youtube Video from the Link Below. I think he did a Great Job going over the DPMS Rifle. Good Luck Bro!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cg56Ur4COo
 
#8
Re: Thinking about a DPMS in 308

Thanks alot for all of the awesome feedback fellas - I actually just finished watching Mr.Nutinfancy's video Hogshooter :p thanks though - He does some very thorough reviews - though i dont necessarily always agree with his methods i still enjoy his videos

What you guys are telling me is what ive found in my research elsewhere .... looking like I will end up going with a DPMS rifle here in the future unless I come across a good reason not to

Thanks again for the info and experiences youve all had and feel free to keep adding more as I will be keeping any eye on this thread
 
#9
Re: Thinking about a DPMS in 308

I had one. Never a jam used the DPMS and magpul mags. Shot sub-MOA at 100. Great for bench rest, was kind of on the heavy side for lugging around the deer/hog lease. I ended up selling it and bought a RRA LAR-8 elite operator....but it's not the same price point as the DPMS.
 
#10
Re: Thinking about a DPMS in 308

have 308LR, and 260LR - crap load of rounds through both, if the metal mags give you any grief switch to Magpuls, upgrade the crappy trigger, and adjustable gasblock helps. Get small base dies for reloading.
 
#11
Re: Thinking about a DPMS in 308

I bought a LR-308 recently and had it out at the range last week. I started a thread on the results here...

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=309524&Number=3511447

It shoots better than me and the scope mounted on it. I only have 60 rounds through it right now, but I did not have any feed or extract problems. I did install a JP adjustable gas block and recently (after my range time) added an ergo pistol grip. My hand does not fit well on the a2 style grip. I also added an extended "tac" latch and an ambi safety selector. My next purchase is a SR Gold trigger. At 12.2 lbs and with a 24" barrel it is too heavy and unwieldy for CQC, but it is perfect for why I bought it. Feed it well and it will treat you right.
 
#12
Re: Thinking about a DPMS in 308

I have a DPMS .308 upper. 16" model with their plane FF tube and high-railed upper and railed gas block. I like it. I loaded up some 150gr M80 pulldown bullets with a mild charge of Varget and it shot all 50 of them reliably. Grouped about 2 MOA. I think it's capable of pretty decent accuracy with the right components but to be honest it's my beater
smile.gif


Barnaul, FMJ, and tracers for this gun. It's a little heavy/bulky compared to an AR-15, but it'll get the job done. I'm thinking about having the barrel turned down behind the gas block to cut some weight out.
 
#13
Re: Thinking about a DPMS in 308

I have notice that there's a bit of play between my Upper and Lower though. That might be a concern for Precision Part of the use. Wonder if everyone else has this issue or is it just me. The gun is a piece together but the upper and lower are Both DPMS Factory units.
 
#14
Re: Thinking about a DPMS in 308

Mine has some play between the upper and lower also. I need to bed it or maybe use the wedge. Trigger sucks also. Not sure if it's staked properly, looks marginal at best. No FTF or fire. It likes 150's, go figure. Not bad for what I paid.
 
#15
Re: Thinking about a DPMS in 308

There is a bit of play between the upper and lower in mine as well. And, the trigger is no bolt gun trigger... But, good groups do not lie.
 
#16
Re: Thinking about a DPMS in 308

Thanks Everyone! And my appologies for hijacking the thread. Seems like a lot of people are having the same issues but still are getting good results. I guess can't really ask for more than that, especially with this kind of price value. Well, this puts me to ease a bit since I have not shot my rifle yet. Still waiting on a scope for it. Hopefully I can get her to the range soon and give you some real reports and first hand feedbacks! Thanks again guys!
 
#18
Re: Thinking about a DPMS in 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 500grains</div><div class="ubbcode-body">DPMS?

Think QUALITY!

LMT MWS, Colt 901, Noveske, SCAR 417. </div></div>

remember when i asked that people dont come in saying this or that w/o a reason to justify what they were saying?
 
#21
Re: Thinking about a DPMS in 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 500grains</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How does DMPS charge $1K to $2K less than others?

Maybe they cut corners on materials?

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsh...amp;output=html

They have a reputation for shit reliability. </div></div>
I think there is data right here for reliability...individual reports.

You put up a spreadsheet, but that has inconclusive data from them. Well, really, there is no data as the only thing that is stated is "No Response to repeated email requests for participation"

Next, this thread is about 308 models. And there isn't the standardization as 5.56 models to Milspec.

Yeah, one could spend $2k to $3k on a rifle by some manufacturers over a $1k DPMS model. Often, I've seen those other manufactures use some really neat parts such as different stocks, more substantial barrels, and so on...piston systems and other aftermarket triggers. Those could be added to a DPMS rifle to increase the cost...and it's value.

For me, the DPMS rifle was an easy entry because, again, it was about 90% (still shoots well, I'm not having these reliability issues that are implied) of the functionality while being about 50% of the cost of others. Even 33% of the cost of others.
 
#22
Re: Thinking about a DPMS in 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Super Dave</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 500grains</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How does DMPS charge $1K to $2K less than others?

Maybe they cut corners on materials?

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsh...amp;output=html

They have a reputation for shit reliability. </div></div>
I think there is data right here for reliability...individual reports.

You put up a spreadsheet, but that has inconclusive data from them. Well, really, there is no data as the only thing that is stated is "No Response to repeated email requests for participation"

Next, this thread is about 308 models. And there isn't the standardization as 5.56 models to Milspec.

Yeah, one could spend $2k to $3k on a rifle by some manufacturers over a $1k DPMS model. Often, I've seen those other manufactures use some really neat parts such as different stocks, more substantial barrels, and so on...piston systems and other aftermarket triggers. Those could be added to a DPMS rifle to increase the cost...and it's value.

For me, the DPMS rifle was an easy entry because, again, it was about 90% (still shoots well, I'm not having these reliability issues that are implied) of the functionality while being about 50% of the cost of others. Even 33% of the cost of others. </div></div>

+1 my dpms 6.5 creedmoor shoots like a tac driver only changes I made was a geissele trigger and apex fore rail I use magpul mags would not trade for anything
 
#24
Re: Thinking about a DPMS in 308

500 grains, does it bother you to wear a tommy hilfiger shirt with polo shorts? I have a DPMS in 223 and 308, about 1000 rounds through both, many sub MOA groups through both. No malfunctions from either rifle. What's your definition of quality?
 
#25
Re: Thinking about a DPMS in 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 500grains</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So quality is not a reason? </div></div>

Quality is a reason - Obviously - If all your going to do is come here and be a smart ass please leave - Trying to have a serious discussion on this - not an argument between 5 year olds

If you have seen or know of a known quality issue with DPMS I would absolutely love for you to make me aware of it - but i simply will not accept you just saying it is low quality - present data proving a point - If you want to compare dpms to a scar as you brought up earlier then you could possible show how the scar is superior - but as stated i will not simply accept your ""DPMS SUCKSORZ SO HARD""

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 500grains</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How does DMPS charge $1K to $2K less than others?

Maybe they cut corners on materials?

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsh...amp;output=html

They have a reputation for shit reliability. </div></div>

That spreadsheet proves nothing except that they did not want to take part in one particular spreadsheet and there could be a million different reasons for that happening - so really I cant take anything meaningful away from your link either for or against DPMS or any other company on there

Ive spent a decent amount of time reading around about their reliability and all I have found is positive reviews - once again please bring forth evidence proving your statements

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 500grains</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Forgive my interference, I thought you might care about quality. </div></div>

I do care about quality - so how about a quality review of DPMS from you?
 
#26
Re: Thinking about a DPMS in 308

Don't worry about it Ron.

One small group here appears to sneer at anyone not willing to spend well over $2k on a .308 AR, $2.5k on a scope, or $300+ on a freaking bipod. If you don't spend as much as they did, you are some sort of loser is the implication. I tend to laugh, as no background for such superiority of opinion is evident. Being the internet, any sort of experience could be claimed of course.
 
#28
Re: Thinking about a DPMS in 308

All I know for sure is that my DPMS LR-308 shoots smaller groups with factory ammunition than my bolt gun (Remington mountain rifle in 270 win) shoots with hand loads- and that is comparing factory ar15 trigger to tuned Remington trigger. The Remington also wears a much higher end scope. Neither has failed me, however, the DPMS is a lot younger. I would like to see an objective side by side comparison of DPMS, and some of the "high end" ar 308s wearing comparable furniture. For example, is a GAP-10 still a GAP-10 when you remove the Magpul, Badger ordinance, Noveske, Surefire, and Geissele furniture? I don't think I have ever read anything written about how someone was disappointed by their high end ar, but is an apples/oranges comparison. Or maybe a apples/apple pies comparison...
 
#29
Re: Thinking about a DPMS in 308

For starters, this is my first time posting, but I am a long time reader of this forum. I do not comment about things that I do not have personal experience with. I currently have a DPMS LRT-SASS with a SWFA 20 X 42 fixed power scope and couldn't be happier with it. I use it mainly for target shooting out to 300 yards (as that is the longest range locally). Sure, it's no LWRC, but for what I spent on the rifle and scope, I was able to buy alot of ammo and range time with it. I have yet to have any FTF or FTE's with it in over 1000 rounds (running both steel DPMS 19rnd and 20rnd P-mags). It doesn't seem to care what I feed it either. 147 gr NATO 7.62's, 150gr Federals or some 165 gr Hornaday SST's. If your looking for quality, stay away from the Oracle, as the fitment is no where near the same as the SASS. You'd think that they were made by two different companys. Now, at over 13 lbs, and an 18" barrel, I can't say that the SASS'd be the best for CQC, but it is doable. Hope this helps and best of luck with your search.
 
#31
Re: Thinking about a DPMS in 308

DPMS had a bad track record with quality control and materials in the past. Go out and buy one and see what it does for you. You may get a great one that fits your needs or get one that makes you pull your hair and burns a hole in your pocket.

Me personally if it's cheap in price then it's cheap in quality. I had an DPMS 5 years ago and I was having buyers remorse due to the shit groups I was getting. I lived in the Black Hills in SD at the time so I had great ammo and a huge pool of shooters to help me out to fix it. Still the damn thing was all over the place with me and other shooters as well.

Maybe Armalite or Mega kit would fit your budget and needs?
 
#33
Re: Thinking about a DPMS in 308

A quick google search will reveal tons of problems with DPMS. But fan boys do not want to face facts.

Personally I have owned 3 dpms lowers and one dpms upper, plus I have used a half dozen dpms LPKs. The LPKs are complete shit. The lowers with someone else's LKP installed work fine. The upper was accurate but cheesy. I got rid of it before it went south.

If you cannot afford a quality rifle, and will not stress your gun much, a DPMS might serve your needs.

But do the google search...

DSCF4626.jpg
 
#34
Re: Thinking about a DPMS in 308

I own a 338 lm a one of a kind custom lmt ar15 2 fnfals hi 91 etc etc and a dpms lr 6.5 I've shot hundreds of rounds out of it with no problems I did change trigger fore rail and pistol grip polished some parts but have never had a issue maybe I just got lucky and got a perfect one on the other hand I did have a pof self destruct on me yes manufacturer defect yes they replaced it but I sold it asap no confidence in it but im not a pof hatter nor am I dpms lover I just like rifles that work for me
 
#35
Re: Thinking about a DPMS in 308

500 Grains. It appears that you have referenced a picture of a sheared bolt. You have not explained the circumstances of the bolt failure. There are plenty of fan boys everywhere, and they are all pretty much the same- "R stufs rox. Yur stufs sux!"

Saying this is junk, then "do a google search" is lazy. Please explain why you feel it is junk. What evidence and experience do are you leveraging to make that claim? Internet anecdotes (which are notoriously lacking in documented facts) hardly count as experience unless very well documented.

My experience with DPMS is very limited- it extends to a single rifle with 60 rounds through it. So far so good, and as I said earlier, it shoots well beyond my capabilities. I am most willing to learn. I have been doing it all of my life. Thanks.

By the way, I did do a google search before I bought my gun and what I found- by an overwhelming majority- were rave reviews of the accuracy (precision actually, but that's really splitting hairs, isn't it?) of the rifle.
 
#36
Re: Thinking about a DPMS in 308

You will find failures in every brand. There are to many variables to make such a broad statements without some better facts. I have owned Rock River, Bushmaster, Stag, CMT, Mega Machine and Colt. All of them have there ups and downs. They also have fiercely sensitive "fan boys" such as 500grains.

Saying that every DPMS is crap is false. Saying that they have had QC issues in the past would be true, but so has RR, Colt and every other <span style="font-size: 14pt">major</span> manufacturer from time to time. I would be the first to say if I though the brand sucked, but it does not. I will say that if they (DPMS)have issues then it would be no different that any other large manufacturer since they also supply most (not all)with parts.

Now if your paying 3 times more for a LWRC or LMT and have problems, then yes I'd be pissed. DPMS is a good brand that makes as many rifles/parts than any other company. There are going to be breakages from time to time with any manufacture.
 
#39
Re: Thinking about a DPMS in 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 500grains</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK, I admit it, DPMS are the best quality guns made and you should purchase nothing else.

Happy? </div></div>I don't recognize where an emotion is relevent. If you are, good for you!

I'd enjoy seeing your reasons for claiming they are "the best" over most posters just objectively stating reason they see them as meeting reasonable expectations, very good, great value...
 
#41
Re: Thinking about a DPMS in 308

Seems like the majority prefer DPMS. I went with the Rock River LAR-8 Elite Operator. For the money, I think the quality, workmanship, durability, and accuracy is superb. Another plus for the LAR-8 is that it utilizes FN/FAL magazines which are plentiful and cheap as well as don't require modification to use.
 
#42
Re: Thinking about a DPMS in 308

IMG_1762.jpg


This is my LR-308. 24" bull barrel, JP trigger, handguard, adjustable gas block, and muzzle brake. I've only used PMags in it and also run a Phase 5 Tactical B.A.D lever. I've run 2k rounds through it; most in competition. I have had one malfunction to date and it was user induced due to lack of maintenance (filthy BCG and chamber). I handload using small base dies and have had excellent accuracy with 168gr and 175gr bullets over IMR-4895 & Varget(LINK).

I am very pleased with my DPMS LR-308 and would not hesitate to purchase another. If I was in your position I would forgo the Oracle model and get the 3G1 model:

http://dpmsinc.3dcartstores.com/3G1-308762-NATO_ep_121-1.html

It already has several key upgrades most notably a JP trigger, VTac free float handguard, Miculek brake, and rifle length gas system. Yes, the barrel is 2" longer without the brake, but 18" buys you a little more velocity and the rifle length gas system reduces the recoil impulse. As previously mentioned the LR-308 is notoriously overgassed. If you add the adjustable gas block and tune it properly the recoil impulse will be very mild and you will be able to call your shots easier on distant targets.

I shoot the equivalent of the 7.62 3G1 model in 5.56 for 3gun and find it perfectly suited for CQB situations as well as longer ranges.
 
#43
Re: Thinking about a DPMS in 308

"As popular as DPMS firearms are, a lot of shooters have no idea what the acronym DPMS stands for. DPMS was founded in 1986 by Randy Luth as a small government contract consulting company. The company manufactured M16, M14 and M203 parts for the Army contracts and sold them commercially, too. By virtue of the company's relationship with our government, it was named "Defense Procurement Manufacturing Services," or DPMS for short. Today, the majority of DPMS' business comes from the commercial market, and they are doing a lot of business.

In 2007, DPMS was acquired by the Freedom Group, which also owns Bushmaster and Remington. Admittedll, it's a bit unusual for one parent company to own three companies that manufacture AR-style rifles. But Freedom Group saw that they could position each company to appeal to a different sector of the market and they could share technology along the way. DPMS is mostly positioned to target the enthusiast shooter, regardless of whether their discipline is sport shooting or hunting And DPMS is very busy. Partly because they manufacture quaility firearms but also because they offer products shooters want." (BLACK GUNS MAGAZINE 2013 BUYER'S GUIDE EDITION ISSUE #121)

Just a bit of History and Background on the company. Seems like it comes from a decent past and there's got to be a reason why Freedom Group wanted this Brand. Especially that they own Bushmaster and Remington 2 of the Biggest Names in Firearms Industry. Just some food for thought...
 
#44
Re: Thinking about a DPMS in 308

I recently picked up a 20" LR 308. I made some minor upgrades to it, and have been satisfied with it so far. I've put less than a hundred rounds through it so far, but its been 100% and accurate with the ammo I put though it (any accuracy issues more likely from me).

Below is a link to my range review:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_2/377508_DPMS_308_at_the_range.html
 
#46
Re: Thinking about a DPMS in 308

I have owned one LR308 and shot alot of LR308's as that is what my company uses for their sniper course and mine shot .5 MOA and under 1MOA out to 1k but some were .5 MOA and some were all the way to 1.5 MOA just luck of draw on them i guess. They are great rifles just hope you get the luck of the draw. Only downside I have seen but common on all gas guns is over gassing and broken extractors. Other than that no complaints. Change trigger and go
 
#48
Re: Thinking about a DPMS in 308

I had a SASS for a while and it was a good rifle. No issues and accuracy was very good. I recently helped a LEO friend complete his range qual and he used a LR308 that had never been shot past a few hundred yards. He was on steel at 850 within a few shots and was printing sub moa with it.

As for reliability, .308's are very hard on BCG parts. If you hadn't had a failure yet you either don't shoot much or you've been lucky. You'll have failures with the best built AR10's if you run them hard. I've found that they like to eat extractors so I always carry a spare. My personal opinion as to why this is...the parts aren't exactly built by NASA and materials that work in an AR15 may not be quite strong enough for an AR10.

Either way there's a lot of bang for the buck in a DPMS rifle.
 
#49
Re: Thinking about a DPMS in 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bunsen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
IMG_1762.jpg


This is my LR-308. 24" bull barrel, JP trigger, handguard, adjustable gas block, and muzzle brake. I've only used PMags in it and also run a Phase 5 Tactical B.A.D lever. I've run 2k rounds through it; most in competition. I have had one malfunction to date and it was user induced due to lack of maintenance (filthy BCG and chamber). I handload using small base dies and have had excellent accuracy with 168gr and 175gr bullets over IMR-4895 & Varget(LINK).

I am very pleased with my DPMS LR-308 and would not hesitate to purchase another. If I was in your position I would forgo the Oracle model and get the 3G1 model:

http://dpmsinc.3dcartstores.com/3G1-308762-NATO_ep_121-1.html

It already has several key upgrades most notably a JP trigger, VTac free float handguard, Miculek brake, and rifle length gas system. Yes, the barrel is 2" longer without the brake, but 18" buys you a little more velocity and the rifle length gas system reduces the recoil impulse. As previously mentioned the LR-308 is notoriously overgassed. If you add the adjustable gas block and tune it properly the recoil impulse will be very mild and you will be able to call your shots easier on distant targets.

I shoot the equivalent of the 7.62 3G1 model in 5.56 for 3gun and find it perfectly suited for CQB situations as well as longer ranges.

</div></div>

Thanks alot for the review - you brought up alot of good points - Ill order one of those when Im 100% sure and finish saving up funds
 
#50
Re: Thinking about a DPMS in 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tx_Flyboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sawcut,

Did you weigh your DPMS with the factory handguards prior to modification? If so how much did it weigh?

Great write-up by the way. </div></div>

Thanks, I did not weigh the handguards, but I did compare them when I switched them out. The stock plastic 2 piece handguards are fairly light as it it, but going to the carbon fiber got the barrel free floated, and still probably saved 2 to 4 ounces. I like a light weight, un-complicated handguard setup. The only thing I'd add is to drill the free float tube for a sling mount, and also screw a short section of picatinny rail at 9 o'clock towards the front, in case I ever put a flashlight there. These additions should still only add a few ounces back to the handgaurd.
 
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