Sidearms & Scatterguns Thinking about getting a Glock
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If you're a 1911 guy, why would you ever want to own a Glock? The only thing a Glock is good for is a utility gun. There are far many more double action only guns on the market that are of greater use and value than a Glock. Glocks are pure hype! Find you a good FN, S&W or if you don't want to spend that much money, buying FMK. They're 14 round guns built in California and I actually own two of them in my collection of about 600 plus guns. But out of all the guns I own, I do not own one Glock and never will
H&K VP9 optics ready with Holosun 508T Plate #2 (feels way better in your hand)
or
Gen 5 Glock 34 with Forward Controls plate Trijicon RMR (glocks need a Dremel tool round sander applied to the back of the trigger guard )
The CZ I have no experience with but they seem to be well liked so worth a look.
Milt Sparks Nexus holster
Holosun and Trijicon RMR use the same mounting plate. The Glock supplied plates are crap.
or
Gen 5 Glock 34 with Forward Controls plate Trijicon RMR (glocks need a Dremel tool round sander applied to the back of the trigger guard )
The CZ I have no experience with but they seem to be well liked so worth a look.
Milt Sparks Nexus holster
Holosun and Trijicon RMR use the same mounting plate. The Glock supplied plates are crap.
I think you might like the G45 MOS gen 5 better— it’s a 9mm and a cross between a G17 frame and G19 slide— you just have to feel the grip if you get lucky to find one!
I completely agree. The only thing Glock wins these days is the popularity contest.
GLOCK 19 GEN 3
Best glock ever.
Better than anything before it and after it.
The Gen 3 is fantastic for all models.
The 19, 17, 26, etc..
Parts are readily available and accessories are infinitely more than any other model or make gun, even 1911 pistols.
3 things however, you should upgrade or buy separate in a Glock 19 Gen 3..
#1
Buy a "47021" (best) or "30274" (2nd best) "Glock Ejector" to replace your crappy 336 ejector that comes with your glock or glock parts kit if you're building. (worst ejector in history).
A 30274 costs far less than a 47021 but is still a big improvement over 336.
The 47021 is a more refined version of the 30274 and can cost around $50 bucks (havent checked lately) but im my opinion its worth it for top reliability.
The 30274 is great but if you want the best for home defense or carry go with 47021.
Its ejection patten is solid.
#2
Buy a "Apex Tactical Failure Resistant Extractor" for glock (you'll also want to buy a Non-LCI Spring Loaded Bearing to replace your regular Loaded Chamber Indicator Bearing - see #3).
#3
"Non-LCI Spring Loaded Bearing"
(a tiny black part that fits on the end of your extractor plunger/spring that works in conjunction with your Apex Extractor).
Replacing these 3 small parts ensure extraction and ejection are near perfect. Solves most if not any issue including stove pipes and jams. The next issues if any youd ever experience is your magazine feed. So go with glock mags or KCI mags (exact same steel core and polymer case as glock). 336 ejectors and glock oem extractors are garbage. Do they work? Yes, with poor weak erratic ejection and problematic extraction. Other than this the gen 3 operates fine.
There are other parts you can upgrade but its best to keep most stuff OEM until you get to know your weapon.
If you want to build your own glock I HIGHLY recommend a Polymer 80 PF940C (compact) frame kit from JSD Supply (cheapest price) and then buy your lower parts kit and find a complete gen 3 complete slide fully built.
Or buy an upper parts kit, slide, barrel and a guide rod (recoil spring).
With a drill press, some fret snips and a file you can build your own firearm.
..Hurry up though, the ATF just ruled on these 80% frames again and in June 2022 you'll no longer be able to build one without the hassle of ATF involvement. Any firearm built before this time still does not fall under serialization law unless transfered or sold. All lowers and gun parts will require sellers to serialize most parts and frames prior to sale and subject you to FFL check. Some of us like to build and not do any business with these world scum. Over 200,000 objections were signed against this ATF rule but they did it anyway.
Best glock ever.
Better than anything before it and after it.
The Gen 3 is fantastic for all models.
The 19, 17, 26, etc..
Parts are readily available and accessories are infinitely more than any other model or make gun, even 1911 pistols.
3 things however, you should upgrade or buy separate in a Glock 19 Gen 3..
#1
Buy a "47021" (best) or "30274" (2nd best) "Glock Ejector" to replace your crappy 336 ejector that comes with your glock or glock parts kit if you're building. (worst ejector in history).
A 30274 costs far less than a 47021 but is still a big improvement over 336.
The 47021 is a more refined version of the 30274 and can cost around $50 bucks (havent checked lately) but im my opinion its worth it for top reliability.
The 30274 is great but if you want the best for home defense or carry go with 47021.
Its ejection patten is solid.
#2
Buy a "Apex Tactical Failure Resistant Extractor" for glock (you'll also want to buy a Non-LCI Spring Loaded Bearing to replace your regular Loaded Chamber Indicator Bearing - see #3).
#3
"Non-LCI Spring Loaded Bearing"
(a tiny black part that fits on the end of your extractor plunger/spring that works in conjunction with your Apex Extractor).
Replacing these 3 small parts ensure extraction and ejection are near perfect. Solves most if not any issue including stove pipes and jams. The next issues if any youd ever experience is your magazine feed. So go with glock mags or KCI mags (exact same steel core and polymer case as glock). 336 ejectors and glock oem extractors are garbage. Do they work? Yes, with poor weak erratic ejection and problematic extraction. Other than this the gen 3 operates fine.
There are other parts you can upgrade but its best to keep most stuff OEM until you get to know your weapon.
If you want to build your own glock I HIGHLY recommend a Polymer 80 PF940C (compact) frame kit from JSD Supply (cheapest price) and then buy your lower parts kit and find a complete gen 3 complete slide fully built.
Or buy an upper parts kit, slide, barrel and a guide rod (recoil spring).
With a drill press, some fret snips and a file you can build your own firearm.
..Hurry up though, the ATF just ruled on these 80% frames again and in June 2022 you'll no longer be able to build one without the hassle of ATF involvement. Any firearm built before this time still does not fall under serialization law unless transfered or sold. All lowers and gun parts will require sellers to serialize most parts and frames prior to sale and subject you to FFL check. Some of us like to build and not do any business with these world scum. Over 200,000 objections were signed against this ATF rule but they did it anyway.
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Although I still have some gen3 and gen4 lying around somewhere, I ended up "standardising" on gen5.
Reasons:
* If you have large fingers, the finger grooves (gen3 and gen4) on a G19 can be a pain, literally. The top groove is smaller than others, and a 300 rounds shooting session without gloves every time left me with a bleeding middle finger. (Not a problem for a full-size G17, as the top groove is the same size as the others.)
* The replaceable backstraps (gen4 and gen5) are very useful. I can see a real difference (target and shot timer).
* Despite the hearsay, Glocks can be pretty decent tools (in their class) for traditional slow-fire precision shooting. If such exercises fit your idea of fun, the gen5 barrel (which Gaston markets as "marksman") really does make a difference. I was sceptical at first (tried a gen4 against a gen5 with my usual ammo, for exactly the same results), but found out later that the gen5 is much less finicky in the choice of ammo. I would guess that previous generations’ rifling did not stabilise slower bullets with harder jackets very well. (Dispersion between 95 gr Magtech and 140 Sellier & Bellot was, like, 4x, not in favour of subsonic. Also, for example, the older model 41 Swiss ordnance 9x19, with its tombac jacket, was a total disaster on target, despite the fantastic production quality.) The gen5 produces consistently good results with pretty much any good quality ammo on the market.
As for the rest of the "improvements", they are largely cosmetic. I did not see any notable operational difference from grip texture, mag well, front serrations, etc.
Also, as many people in this thread seemed to suggest, despite the reputation of a kind of a "Honda Civic of handguns", Glocks are by far not universal tools. The grip is very peculiar – either it fits your hand, or it doesn’t. When it fits your morphology – it is a beauty, and the infamous mushy trigger is easy to get used to. But when it does not… many people with smaller hands hate Glocks (perhaps, rightfully) and just can’t shoot them straight.
As an alternative, check out the Walther PDP – perhaps the most underestimated handgun on the market today.
Hope it helps.
Reasons:
* If you have large fingers, the finger grooves (gen3 and gen4) on a G19 can be a pain, literally. The top groove is smaller than others, and a 300 rounds shooting session without gloves every time left me with a bleeding middle finger. (Not a problem for a full-size G17, as the top groove is the same size as the others.)
* The replaceable backstraps (gen4 and gen5) are very useful. I can see a real difference (target and shot timer).
* Despite the hearsay, Glocks can be pretty decent tools (in their class) for traditional slow-fire precision shooting. If such exercises fit your idea of fun, the gen5 barrel (which Gaston markets as "marksman") really does make a difference. I was sceptical at first (tried a gen4 against a gen5 with my usual ammo, for exactly the same results), but found out later that the gen5 is much less finicky in the choice of ammo. I would guess that previous generations’ rifling did not stabilise slower bullets with harder jackets very well. (Dispersion between 95 gr Magtech and 140 Sellier & Bellot was, like, 4x, not in favour of subsonic. Also, for example, the older model 41 Swiss ordnance 9x19, with its tombac jacket, was a total disaster on target, despite the fantastic production quality.) The gen5 produces consistently good results with pretty much any good quality ammo on the market.
As for the rest of the "improvements", they are largely cosmetic. I did not see any notable operational difference from grip texture, mag well, front serrations, etc.
Also, as many people in this thread seemed to suggest, despite the reputation of a kind of a "Honda Civic of handguns", Glocks are by far not universal tools. The grip is very peculiar – either it fits your hand, or it doesn’t. When it fits your morphology – it is a beauty, and the infamous mushy trigger is easy to get used to. But when it does not… many people with smaller hands hate Glocks (perhaps, rightfully) and just can’t shoot them straight.
As an alternative, check out the Walther PDP – perhaps the most underestimated handgun on the market today.
Hope it helps.
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For me, it comes down to grip angle. Glock is different from your 1911, and will point different. If you get used to the Glock, then you will have to reacquaint yourself with the 1911 next session.
Sig 320 or 365 for the win. I also like the Sprongfield XDm. I have sent a bunch of rounds through all 3 and never had an ejection or feeding problem, nor a failure to fire.
Sig 320 or 365 for the win. I also like the Sprongfield XDm. I have sent a bunch of rounds through all 3 and never had an ejection or feeding problem, nor a failure to fire.
This is a problem for the people who shoot one box of ammo a year.
My 17 Gen 3 is nearing 4000 rounds and it has all the shit parts you rant about.
How much longer should I go before my first FTE (extract, eject, take your pick....)?
IME the only gen 3 part that needs to be shitcanned immediately is the near useless magazine release. Get a Glock OEM extended one and done.
Or buy a CZ P-10
JMO, but you really should go to a range where you can try all the suggestions, or find a bud with several different options. I like my Glocks, but they don’t fit everyone. I love 1911s, but I don’t shoot them well. They just don’t fit my grip well. Lots of really great guns these days, but to be great for you and your grip style, you either have to retrain yourself, or find one that fits.
Try, try, try! Just my experience and suggestion.
Try, try, try! Just my experience and suggestion.
I shoot a ton more than that, but it is virtually all handguns with the same of similar grip angle. 1911 just seems to fit me.
I know fat people who haven’t had a heart attack, doesn’t mean being fat is a good idea.
The extractor was redesigned for a reason
Also a fan of the MARS mag release
https://www.rainierarms.com/parts/pistol-parts/rainier-arms-mars/
I also am a 1911 guy. My wife wanted a Flock so I bought one. THE BIGGEST NEGATIVE is the lack of a "real" safety. Be very careful when handling this firearm! I also have a Beretta 92S and feel it's a much better weapon as it's well made out of quality steel parts .
Jokes aside, it’s drop safe and all that, also has MILES of trigger travel, i wouldn’t call a Glock a dangerous weapon or one that needs special handling at all, they are designed as a ship by the pallet weapon, for ship by the pallet gov workers to not easily shoot them selves, and still hit the proverbial minute of peasant.
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Why would one have to be very careful when handling a pistol without a thumb safety? Shouldn't you be equally careful with a 1911?
The 92 is not a "better" weapon. It's more complicated, made up of a bunch more parts, and has had some spectacular failures like broken locking blocks and slides that could come right off. It also has an incredibly stupid safety unless you do a G conversion to it.
And what are "quality" steel parts? What kind of quality? Glock's durability and resistance to abuse is more than enough proof about their quality.
Nice job assuming (incorrectly) someone else's abilities or intent. You appear to be like the folks who insist that an iphone is better than something else. "If you just try it, you'll love it!" Been using an iphone for work for 9 years now, and I still hate that fucker. Carry 2 phones every day to avoid using the iphone I hate more that absolutely required.
I have put thousands of rounds through a Glock, and still don't like them. Don't hate it either, just like virtually every other pistol I have ever shot better than a Glock. Not saying anything negative about their reliability or anything else, just the fucked up grip angle that they picked. I can shoot it accurately also, it's just not as instinctive (to me) as the revolvers and 1911's that I have been shooting for several decades. I have owned several, and sold or traded every one I ever owned because I just don't like them.
If it fits you, great. Enjoy it. That doesn't mean it's the best fit for everyone else, or that anyone who isn't a Glock fanboy like you seem to be is stupid or inexperienced.
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LOL It's so fucked up that someone can go from it to a CZ Shadow and continue recking people
I am curious why nobody has mentioned a Canik Mete SFT as an alternative? Mine has been 100% reliable over the 1500 rounds (all reloads) I have managed through it since picking it up in November. Its Optics ready (mine has a 407K) and the Trigger is really fantastic. I say that coming from a SA Loaded model 1911 with lots of trigger work. I much prefer it to the VP9 and the Sig 320. It disassembles with only a simple tool and has been very accurate. Might be worth looking into if you were thinking G19/17. Just my $.02. Good luck.
They are certainly viable. I don't have any experience with them but the feedback from very knowledgeable users is favorable.
Biggest reason I didn't end up buying one, although tempted, was the mag availability. I'm also in the crowd that waits quite a while until everything is figured out and supply chain isn't a problem.
With my mindset, after having handled them and the new M&P 2.0, I'd rather go the M&P route. But after handling @308pirate's P07 all done up, I'll probably just stick with CZ lol.
The difference in how I feel about these various guns is about 1000x the difference between how I shoot them. But to me, the enjoyment of shooting matters. I actually quite like both Glocks and CZs, and think the Sigs are really good. I really don't like the HK VP series, mainly because it feels weird in my hand, no matter how many rounds I put through it. I also don't like looooong takeup. Doesn't really change its shootability, though.
All that said, I still shoot 1911s 100x more than anything else, and enjoy the hell out of it. 1911 magazines are no longer an issue. Wilson, Tripp, McCormick, Metalform. All excellent.
All that said, I still shoot 1911s 100x more than anything else, and enjoy the hell out of it. 1911 magazines are no longer an issue. Wilson, Tripp, McCormick, Metalform. All excellent.
There is nothing wrong with P07 for sure! I debated hard about building one up with some CGW parts.
As for the Canik mag issue I solved that with MecGar 92FS mags. They are exactly the same except for the catch notch position. A few minutes with a Vertical mill (you could do it with a dremel) and immediate Canik mags!
How many rounds does that guy fire a week?
Jerry Miculek could probably outshoot the average CZ shadow owner with a pawn shop revolver too
Lebron James could out play me on the court barefoot while I was wearing airjordans (or whatever the fancy basketball shoe is).
Fact is one is still a better tool, and skills are no doubt the most important aspect, any gun is better than no gun, but if you’re not dirt poor why not get the best equipment you can and eliminate that variable. Glocks are great for their job, a ship by the pallet gun for gov workers (many who are not “gun people”), but lots of way better platforms one can get if they have the freedom of choice and a few coins to rub together
It's just sight control and trigger control. Everything else is just noise. The difference in shootability between guns is really minor. Sure, on the extremes, bullseye, long range silhouette, there might be some differences, but if you are talking about A zone hits at speed, you should be able to adapt quickly.
Actually, other than the CGW 18 lb hammer spring, it's mechanically 100% stock
What does your SA weight come out to with the 18# spring? My best friend has the P07 Tac and it was pretty heavy at around 6.5# with stock springs. The SA pull was pretty crisp though out of the box so certainly shootable. He dropped in a MCarbo kit and it runs about 3.5# with that and is still 100% from a reliability standpoint. Either way I think the CZ P09/07's are great. I opted for the Canik only because I did not have a striker fired gun at all but have several DA/SA Steel frame guns.
It's in the 4 lb range. But the hammer spring has very little effect on the single action pull weight because the hammer moves back very, very little before slipping off the sear.
I agree with Turbotrout and 308pirate answered.
I’ll add the biggest “real” safety is the nut holding the gun. Other things are attempts to cover human screwups.
You mention the “quality steel” of another gun so I’m sure you have researched it and realized there are at least 3 separate safety features built into the gun, as well as even more safety built into the stored vs not stored energy in glocks striker design.
I like 1911s. I actually like most guns!
Except hipoints. I hate them but they always work.
I’ve been thinking of getting one of these for the historic significance
I’d probably only run a box through it, but owning a “yeet cannon” that’s the thing of legends
OP, if you have access to a range with a wide selection of rental guns I'd recommend you try several brands and models. I found I didn't like the recoil on the 19, 21, 22, 23, 26, FNs, HKs, or the SIG 320-series trigger. The Gen 4 Glock grip is shorter front-to-back than first, second, and third-generation guns.
I've owned 1911s coming close to 50 years now and they are still my favorites. I bought a Gen 1 Glock early and sold it after shooting (I couldn't get over the grip angle and width). Went 25 years before trying a Gen 4 17, and six months later owned a 17, 41, 30S, and 20.
The Gen 4 Glock 17 was a rental with several tens of thousands of rounds through it, which smoothed the trigger break. I have smaller hands, so the finger grooves fit well (which I absolutely was NOT expecting). I get "Glock Knuckle," where the rear of the trigger guard hammers on the second knuckle of my middle finger. Fixed that with a file and sand paper (no big deal, it's just plastic).
I replaced the barrel with a stainless KKM (I shoot handloads almost exclusively) and the recoil spring assembly.
I had some bad sciatica and read about an LAPD detective squad specifying a Glock 30S. It doesn't come in a Gen 4, so I built one using a 29 frame and a 36 upper group. I dropped a half pound over the 1911 and gained two rounds of .45 ACP in a package about the same size as a 19.
Gen 5s are supposed to be the fifth generation of "perfection" (boy, that hasn't weathered well).
I'm on the wait list for a 48, which has a thinner frame than a 19 (more like a Government or Commander), and with a Shield Arms magazine and catch has the same 15 +1 capacity as the 19. I think it may also come in a version where you can easily install one of the new mini red-dot sights.
I've owned 1911s coming close to 50 years now and they are still my favorites. I bought a Gen 1 Glock early and sold it after shooting (I couldn't get over the grip angle and width). Went 25 years before trying a Gen 4 17, and six months later owned a 17, 41, 30S, and 20.
The Gen 4 Glock 17 was a rental with several tens of thousands of rounds through it, which smoothed the trigger break. I have smaller hands, so the finger grooves fit well (which I absolutely was NOT expecting). I get "Glock Knuckle," where the rear of the trigger guard hammers on the second knuckle of my middle finger. Fixed that with a file and sand paper (no big deal, it's just plastic).
I replaced the barrel with a stainless KKM (I shoot handloads almost exclusively) and the recoil spring assembly.
I had some bad sciatica and read about an LAPD detective squad specifying a Glock 30S. It doesn't come in a Gen 4, so I built one using a 29 frame and a 36 upper group. I dropped a half pound over the 1911 and gained two rounds of .45 ACP in a package about the same size as a 19.
Gen 5s are supposed to be the fifth generation of "perfection" (boy, that hasn't weathered well).
I'm on the wait list for a 48, which has a thinner frame than a 19 (more like a Government or Commander), and with a Shield Arms magazine and catch has the same 15 +1 capacity as the 19. I think it may also come in a version where you can easily install one of the new mini red-dot sights.
I have and used to carry a P228.
Saying that the trigger on a P226 is better than a CZ Shadow 2 optics ready is demonstrably false.
When I got the Shadow 2, I was ready for a heavy 2 stage trigger, no gritty feeling, similar to my P228. What I received is the best 2 stage trigger that I've felt on any handgun, period. I didn't have it Cajunized or modified, it's still 100% stock. If I ever feel like carrying a full sized pistol, the CZ is the first gun that I grab.
Back to OP's question, don't get a Glock. They are like herpes. You buy one, then you decide that, for an inexpensive pistol, they are damn near impossible to beat; so you buy a P80 kit. Then you buy another P80 kit, and another... Next thing you know, you have 3 Glocks in your safe, even though you only really shoot one regularly; for me it's a GST-9 frame with Zev guts, Zev slide, and an RMR.
Edit: The 228 that I used to carry was a German P228 with Sig night sights. It's still a great gun, but others have eclipsed it.
I had a M&P 2.0 with 4.25" barrel that I sold last year. I liked the gun, but I just didn't shoot it as well as my 1911.
Maybe I just didn't give it enough time. I may have to pick up another one.
I do have a friend that has a few Canik's. I'll have to see if I can run a few mags through his to see how they feel.
I need to find someplace I can get my hands on a CZ P-09. I like the fact you can switch them to SAO instead of DA/SA.
I did get to hold a Rock Island double stack 9mm a few months back. I had been considering one of those, but I couldn't stand the way the grip felt, so I changed my mind.
Too many choices
Maybe I just didn't give it enough time. I may have to pick up another one.
I do have a friend that has a few Canik's. I'll have to see if I can run a few mags through his to see how they feel.
I need to find someplace I can get my hands on a CZ P-09. I like the fact you can switch them to SAO instead of DA/SA.
I did get to hold a Rock Island double stack 9mm a few months back. I had been considering one of those, but I couldn't stand the way the grip felt, so I changed my mind.
Too many choices
The pistol is always DA/SA. There is no way to turn a P-09 (or P-07) into a single action only.
All the safety lever does is block the sear when the hammer is cocked and safety is on, something the decocker doesn't do. You can still use the pistol as DA/SA by disengaging the safety and lowering the hammer manually (like the CZ 75B) or leave it cocked with the safety on which blocks the sear.
The safety lever is not that great. It's not easily accessible like what you get in a 1911. It's best left with the decocker. Learn how to run a double action trigger. It takes man hands but it can be done.
A firing pin activated laser insert and about 100,000 trigger pulls will get you used to the DA trigger pull AND where the gun is pointed!
I work at a LGS and we have a very busy range. We have a large variety of rental handguns and long guns. Between rental guns and guns sold to customers I can tell you we have ZERO breakdowns with Glocks; I truly can't remember the last time we've had one go down or come back. I can also tell you SIG, Ruger, Beretta, FN are all fairly regular members of the broke-down club, with SIG and Ruger sharing the crown for King POS. Long guns? We have trouble on a regular basis with our SCARs and AK's in our rental fleet, especially SCARs....Divas IMHO. YMMV.
I was mistaken. I misunderstood when I read the specs, and thought it could be converted. It is just a switch from decocker to a manual safety.
I probably would just run it decocked and practice the double action trigger.
You may have been looking at or reading about the Shadow2, which only has a manual safety. Those born with only a manual safety and no decocker can be changed into SAO.
A few dry fire sessions and focused range days and you'll have it down. You can always put a CGW kit or spring in it after some practice to smoothen/lighten it up too.
You do not want a laser that lights up when the hammer drops. It's counterproductive to learn how to call your shots. There is a reason no USPSA Grand Master who also trains people uses them or recommend them.
It also doesn't take 100,000 freaking trigger presses to get used to a DA trigger. Pull it straight through without stopping or even staging it and grip the gun correctly and like a man.
