Rifle Scopes This Acog on an M4 - Any downside?

[pmclaine]

I could get this from Brownells +/- $1500.

Any downside to this optic on a 16 inch LMT CQB

http://www.brownells.com/optics-mounting...4762-62450.aspx

The rifle is intended for targets off the bench or belly out to 300 yards. I would like something I could practice making quick short range shots with at the 25 to 65 yard range.

Thank you for holding my hand.

 

[Coloradocop]

Re: This Acog on an M4 - Any downside?

What do you use your M4 for?

I know a lot of guys who like the ACOGs, but I'm (personally) not a huge fan of integrated ballistic drop reticles, since they're only really designed for one bullet at one speed. I hand load for my personal rifles, and the drop profiles of some of the bullets I might use probably won't match the ballistic drop reticle in these scopes. But, if you're shooting a load that is similar to a standard military load, it would probably work out reasonably well for quick-n-dirty holds at different distances.

Also, if you are using your M4 for CQB stuff, I personally would prefer to ditch the magnification. I have to clear houses with my M4, so I run a 0x Eotech on my rifle, since it is quite possible that I'll be engaging in quick low-light shootings at distances of less than 15 yards (I can still use this optic beyond 200 yards, which is the max I'd ever possibly imagine engaging a target on an urban police force -- even that distance is a stretch to imagine).

 

[pmclaine]

Re: This Acog on an M4 - Any downside?

Fixed the broken link.

Added some info about intended use. For ammo I'm hopping to use surpluss M855 or whatever 55 grainers I can find cheap. I have 30-06 and .308s that I load for.

I bought the 5.56 on a whim two weeks ago. I'd be kicking myslef now if I had of not bought it.

 

[insight3b]

Re: This Acog on an M4 - Any downside?

I had a TA31F with chevron reticle and I liked it a lot. Only tested it to 400 but never used the BDC. I engaged steel silhouttes out to 4 and as long as the chevron was on the body steel rang.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: This Acog on an M4 - Any downside?

If you are shooting belly or bench at targets like that look into a scope you can dial.

Bushnell 1-4x, 1.65.x 1.8x

SWFA 1-4x 1-6x

Vortex 1-4x, 1-6x

Stuff like that, this way you can dial your exact dope and they will have a hold over reticle to use for snap shots. This way if you switch ammo or find big swings you can adjust with the turrets.

You're not running and gunning so you might has well dial.

 

[Coloradocop]

Re: This Acog on an M4 - Any downside?

Yeah, you definitely bought that rifle at the right time!

The ACOG 4x magnification will definitely cover you for the longer range distances you're intending to shoot. Obviously at shorter distances magnification becomes your enemy, but I don't think you'll have too much trouble resolving a target at 25-65 yards with a 4x magnification (I guess it depends how critical absolute speed is on target).

I've often hunted with scopes turned down to 3-4x in the woods, and could still come up on target quite quickly when needed, even for small game hunting. If you were going to be doing dedicated close range stuff (like what I do at work) I wouldn't go with a 4x, but that doesn't seem to be how you'll be using that rifle. You'd certainly have an advantage over me with a 4x magnification at 300-400 yards.

I'd let some other folks weigh in on the ballistic drop reticle. I've always been leery of those, which means I've never actually owned one. Maybe some other folks have been happy with them?

 

[pmclaine]

Re: This Acog on an M4 - Any downside?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you are shooting belly or bench at targets like that look into a scope you can dial.

Bushnell 1-4x, 1.65.x 1.8x

SWFA 1-4x 1-6x

Vortex 1-4x, 1-6x

Stuff like that, this way you can dial your exact dope and they will have a hold over reticle to use for snap shots. This way if you switch ammo or find big swings you can adjust with the turrets.

You're not running and gunning so you might has well dial. </div></div>

Sorry for making you drag the information important to this decision out of me.

Realistically I will be shooting this on the KD range, but I want it to fill a spot in the safe different from what else is in there.

I have an MWS with a 5-25 S&B, bipod all that stuff that makes it about 17 pounds.

I have a Garand and some 03's

Until I bought the LMT CQB I didnt have anything that could be described as "light and fast" or "run and gun".

The magnification of the ACOG recognizes that I am going to be plinking off the bench or mat and want to be able to hit bullseye targets, not much steel in my area. With this rifle I'll be most often at the 100 yard range, occasionally the 200 rarely 300. If the rifle groups I want this to be a kentucky windage rifle. Dialing would be for the .308 with the S&B.

The onboard reflex sight is something I have been curious about and I assume it would be good for anything less than 100 yards.

This scope even has an aperature and post for back up. I'm thinking the ACOG is a tough sight. I'd never need that type of survivability but I like to buy good stuff.

Not trying to be argumentative, I havenet made my mind up, just letting you know what my assumptions for going this route were and if I am wrong I'll find out here.

One thing I dont understand is why the reticle is marked out to 1000 meters. Seems like 600 should be max.

 

[Rushfan]

Re: This Acog on an M4 - Any downside?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Coloradocop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Also, if you are using your M4 for CQB stuff, I personally would prefer to ditch the magnification. I have to clear houses with my M4, so I run a 0x Eotech on my rifle, since it is quite possible that I'll be engaging in quick low-light shootings at distances of less than 15 yards (I can still use this optic beyond 200 yards, which is the max I'd ever possibly imagine engaging a target on an urban police force -- even that distance is a stretch to imagine). </div></div>

Like the O.P., I managed to get an 5.56 just before pandemonium hit. I would like to use this as a fast Run & Gun rig. I also like the cost of entry.

Your description sounds right on, but I would appreciate if you would share which model # you are using or, would most like to use.

From a trusted sponsor/vendor's site;

http://www.cstactical.com/EOTech.html

To the O.P. Sorry to hijack.

 

[chakup]

Re: This Acog on an M4 - Any downside?

For $1500 I would look for a nice 1-4X scope, a Warne RAMP mount and your choice of RDS mounted to that as well. If you really want the red dot on top you could go with a PEPR mount or similar with the picatinny top cap.

While you could do better with your budget (The Burris aint bad but if I had $1500 budgeted there's better options!) here's an example
http://swfa.com/Burris-1-4x24-MTAC-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P53420.aspx

 

[chainring]

Re: This Acog on an M4 - Any downside?

Do NOT get a TA31 - the eye relief is zero. I've had the Ecos, and never remembered to use the red dot during a hog hunt....but when I DID use it target shooting it requires you to raise your head off the stock, which sucks. Get a TA33 or TA11 and an offset red dot or irons...or get a 1-6, which would be my recommendation. I still have a TA33 and the TR24 1-4, and a 1-8 is next.

 

[scudzuki]

Re: This Acog on an M4 - Any downside?

I have a TA33 (3x30) ACOG on a 14.5" barrel AR (light profile barrel not M4 but otherwise the same thing) and it is a very good gunsight. In my opinion, adding a RDS or holosight on top of an ACOG is totally unnecessary.

Joe

 

[scudzuki]

Re: This Acog on an M4 - Any downside?

To clarify, the relatively low magnification of an ACOG is no problem for close targets and the BAC (Bindon Aiming Concept, shooting with both eyes open) is surprisingly effective.

Although I could have just edited my last post, that would not bring me closer to my 100th post

Joe

 

[n8lusk]

Re: This Acog on an M4 - Any downside?

I have the TA01NSN 4X32 that I purchased from a vendor here on the Hide. It is on a duty weapon and I couldn't be happier. I used irons and Eotechs in the past, but haven't looked back since getting the Trijicon.

BTW, I like Brownells, but got a far better deal from the vendor.

 

[sgtbutt]

Re: This Acog on an M4 - Any downside?

As pointed out the TA31 sucks on eye relief. You are talking about an inch and half max! I hade the TA31 issued to me for my M$ in the sand box and loved it, other than shitty eye relief. For up close (25m and in) it's a blurred red dot more or less, for further out it's very nice. Its built like a tank but it's a tool, a screwdriver can be used as a chisel or pry bar but works best as a scredriver. Find out your needs and get an optic suited for the task.

 

[sib1948]

Re: This Acog on an M4 - Any downside?

I think you would be happier with an adjustable scope for over 150 yds. See if you can find someone at the range, so you can try one. Llike night and day at distance.

 

[Andy T]

Re: This Acog on an M4 - Any downside?

As others have said, the eye relief on TA31 family sucks! When I had one, it was literally banging against my safety glasses as I was shooting. If you are dead set on an ACOG, the TA11 or TA33 family is a much better choice since they offer better eye relief.
With practice, there isn't much need for the backup red dot. Another downside of the mount position of the backup red dot, is that you are talking chin weld, and offset - something that you must keep in mind for closer range shots gets that much bigger.
You can also consider getting a Leupold MK 6, if it's in your price range, along with other options.

 

[insight3b]

Re: This Acog on an M4 - Any downside?

I didn't have any problems with the eye relief on my TA31F but I keep my nose to the charging handle. A serious downside of adj magnification traditional low powered scopes is the ghosting of the standard A2 front sight base at 3 power and below. The interference/distortion of the FSB has thrown shots off as much as 6 inches at 100 which is why on my SPR I went with a PRI folding front sight.

 

[samnev]

Re: This Acog on an M4 - Any downside?

I don't have any problems with the eye relief on my TA31F but I also keep my nose to the charging handle. I have never had the scope come anywhere near hitting my glasses despite the short 1.5" eye relief. That said After buying 4 4X ACOG's for my AR's I also bought an LMT CQB and put an Nightforce NXS 1-4X24 scope. If I had to do it all over again that's what I would have done instead of the ACOG's.

 

[pmclaine]

Re: This Acog on an M4 - Any downside?

My rifle is a flat top with the LMT sights removed (which I plan on doing).

I'm going to do more research on the 1-4 scoped options and consider the KAC offset 600 yard irons.

Havent totally abandoned the ACOG so still interested in hearing pro comments if they are there. The strong dislike of the 1.5 eye relief seems consistent. Wish I had one to try out. If I run a TA31 on my rifle I will not be using a BUIS and plan to mount it as far back as possible.

 

[chakup]

Re: This Acog on an M4 - Any downside?

I owned an ACOG. It does it's job and really is a nice piece of glass, it just simply didn't fit me for what I wanted. Maybe find a local board/hometown type forum with someone who can let you put some rounds through an ACOG and a decent 1-4x to compare to.

 

[snarlbuckle]

Re: This Acog on an M4 - Any downside?

IMO, the BDC on the ACOG is convenient when firing M855 out of an M4, but is otherwise unnecessary. If you zero at 300m, then your bullet trajectory will only be a couple inches above your POA within that range. In practical terms, just aim for the belly button and you'll at least hit the target every time even under stressful conditions.

When considering an ACOG, I look hard at its optical dimensions. The part I like least about the ACOG is that the eye relief is about 1.5". But that's not the whole story, so look at the size of the objective lens, the width of the eye box, etc. Compared to Leupold's HAMR, the ACOG has what I would describe as shorter and wider optical dimensions. This can be good for an imperfect cheek weld.

When engaging targets within 50m, getting a sight picture on an ACOG may only slow you down. A reflex sight would be beneficial here. I've also been able to confidently engage silhouettes out to 300m using an Army issue Close Combat Optic. If you are shooting from a bench or from the prone, you have all the time in the world and don't need a reflex sight.

So in my opinion, when you are shooting silhouettes, an ACOG is best suited to a range of 150-400m and a reflex sight is best suited to a range of 25-300m depending on the size of the dot. If you are shooting paper plates, I would go with the ACOG for improved precision.

I say all of this as a deployed Cavalry Scout in the U.S. Army. My issued weapon has an ACOG and given a steady position I can hit a head sized target at 300m.

 

[pharm762]

Re: This Acog on an M4 - Any downside?

I have an ACOG on my 10" sig. The ballistic reticle will get hits on steel but I wouldn't do paper target shooting. They are right the ballistic reticles are not super accurate but the trick I do is to aim the matching hash mark of distance to the head area of the steel target and I will get a hit. Again I am not to sure where it hit but I hear steel ringing.

 

[OK-Archon]

Re: This Acog on an M4 - Any downside?

Like many people I just picked up my first AR15 platform rifle and am having trouble with the optic choice. I currently have 308 in a long range setup and i use my 1911 for my home gun, this rifle will mainly be for plinking and deer/hog hunting in short range situations where i don't want or need to use the 308. Its a 300blk btw

. I'm basically wanting one of the big 3 eotech, aimpoint, or trijy acog. I cant bring myself to put a 1-4 tube on it simply because i think it would kill some plinking fun if I ever want to run and gun or take a class or something. I would go with an aimpoint or eotech based on this if it weren't for my concerns with the hunting side. This gun would be my "brush gun" that i would use walking fences or pushing game to our stands, which i use an iron sighted 30-30 marlin for now. I would like to be able to identify game as far out as 300 yards with my rifle optic, to avoid carrying binoculars. I'm pretty sure i could ID well enough with 4x with nice glass. Has anyone hunted with an acog before? should I just try an eotech or aimpoint and a magnifier and make due? idk damn these rifles, they do some evil things... to my wallet

edit: i know the BDC for the acog would not be calibrated but i can work with it.