This guy puts a new perspective on Chinese optics.

[Mr.BR]

Imagine MSM had folks wound up tight over Japan in the 80's , same as now failure of corporate America that couldn't make a car someone outside US would buy , solution to that were sanctions on Japan , Chicken tax for Europe , and mostly near and offshoring first to Mexico then to china as Wall street restructured a manufacturing powerhouse into a rent extractive economy. (extraction of wealth without any reciprocal contribution of productivity)

In any case,
BREAKING: GIANT VENOMOUS FLYING SPIDERS INVADING THE EAST COAST

 

[roostercogburn98]

Apparently we still haven’t learned how to spell Chyna

 

[Makinchips208]

My opinion.
China is NOT the problem.

Americans, and who they elect, are the problem.

The rest is just compounding what Americans already messed up.

 

[Mach]

Haven't purchased a single thing from china (outside of the hardware store, drillbits, bolts,etc) in 7 years. fuck whinny the pooh and the ccp. Poor people though, wish em luck. Too bad they ain't armed.

 

[Mr.BR]

Haven't purchased a single thing from china (outside of the hardware store, drillbits, bolts,etc) in 7 years. fuck whinny the pooh and the ccp. Poor people though, wish em luck. Too bad they ain't armed.

The computer you are typing this on was made in China as well as your phone

 

[Barelstroker]

So a vector 5-30x compares favorably with a Schmidt 5-25? You put both on 25x and couldn’t tell the difference?

So how much better can the Schmitt be, in practical terms when, I can easily discern a 24"x 24" target at 1000 yrds with my Struck Eagle. I'll admit that it isn't as clear as the Schmitt but does that small difference in clarity, at distances that I rarely shoot, make it a smart discission to spend about 6x as much on a Schmitt?
For the majority of shooters, all the very expensive gear equates to little more than a talking point when all the chips are counted.
Many of the realistically priced options will perform more than adequately for most shooters in most situations &, considering that the price difference involved could easily purchase another 2 or 3 rifles & scopes, I really can't see the benefit for the majority of people.
As for China/Chinese people, they are just people like us, with the same hopes, dreams, worries & concerns. I find it very strange that those who are always questioning the value of products from O/S & the cost to their country due to the transfer of money O/S, are some of the people who have chosen to work in the military, most of whom would be quite happy to be sent O/S to shoot shit out of some poor bastard they never met, for reasons they don't really know or understand, using weapons & equipment, much of which is wholly or partly made by O/S & U.S giant corporations who need these same folk to be blindly willing to shoot shit out of some poor bastard they never met before, all off the words of the slimiest, dirtiest, low life, lying politicians & think that Chinese shit sold in their country is the greater problem.
The world makes no sense to me.

 

[Mach]

Actually my phone is made in Japan and my computer in Taiwan.

 

[Mach]

I always look for the “Made in China” label.

Then Immediately make sure I don’t buy it.

If even half of Americans stopped buying Chinese shit, they would go back to being starving peasants in a matter of weeks. And probably become a world “player” instead of the next Hitler. Chi coms are not our friends… and are really now Chi-fascists.

And need to be stopped before we end up in WW 3.

We can stop them now. In their tracks. By buying nothing Chinese. Or since that is “almost” impossible… buying bare minimum.

Japan, Korea, Taiwan. Even the Vietnamese have merit. But China needs to be starved into economic depression before its government destroys the globe.

The global elites everyone is always braying on about? Are nothing compared to what these ChiCom leaders will do to the world.


Sirhr


Sirhr

Absolutely nailed it, and spoken way more eloquently than I ever could have. Thanks

 

[Mach]

Do Holosuns have CCP spyware in them? Maybe a transceiver? Asking for a friend.

 

[918v]

.

So how much better can the Schmitt be, in practical terms when, I can easily discern a 24"x 24" target at 1000 yrds with my Struck Eagle. I'll admit that it isn't as clear as the Schmitt but does that small difference in clarity, at distances that I rarely shoot, make it a smart discission to spend about 6x as much on a Schmitt?
For the majority of shooters, all the very expensive gear equates to little more than a talking point when all the chips are counted.
Many of the realistically priced options will perform more than adequately for most shooters in most situations &, considering that the price difference involved could easily purchase another 2 or 3 rifles & scopes, I really can't see the benefit for the majority of people.

My question was more to counter the suggestion that you can get S&B performance at 80% off. Can you hit a target with a Chinese scope? Sure. But that’s not the point.

 

[Barelstroker]

.


My question was more to counter the suggestion that you can get S&B performance at 80% off. Can you hit a target with a Chinese scope? Sure. But that’s not the point.

Point taken.
As an aside though, I can't work out who's buying Schmitt's anymore. Apart from some of the hunting models which are still priced in the realm of reality, most of their military scopes are north of 5K &, more than a few are over 7K, where I am. That's an awful lot of convincing for me to consider a Schmitt. The same goes for Tangents, ZC & some Kahles models.
In comparison, I can purchase a top of the range civilian type Thermal with range finder & ballistic software,10 different zero's, record function & etc for around 7K. Makes me suspicious how the above mentioned optical scope companies can continue to justify the prices they continue to demand.
The latest model Pulsars have a dual day/night feature now. There is a separate day lens/camera which is clear out to a few hundred yards. It won't be long before they realize, if they haven't already, that they can take on the best classical optics & equip these dual scopes with day cameras that can match or rival the best scopes of today out to 1000 yrds, with an LRF & ballistic programs as they have now. All with the press of a button.

 

[Inifinty]

.


My question was more to counter the suggestion that you can get S&B performance at 80% off. Can you hit a target with a Chinese scope? Sure. But that’s not the point.

Counter? You obviously have no clue.

Have you compared the scopes I mentioned to have a relevant opinion?

 

[flogxal]

My opinion.
China is NOT the problem.

Americans, and who they elect, are the problem.

The rest is just compounding what Americans already messed up.

China's ascendence in the consumer electronics side of things happened for a few reasons, and the domestic ones include domestic companies being bought and then liquidated (to eliminate competition), and domestic companies offshoring part of/all of mfre to China. Domestic companies -- their Officers and Directors -- willingly went down the de-industrialization path after Vietnam. Even McNamara admits to this in that Fog of War interview docu/movie, from DoD's POV, in the wake of Vietnam. Bobby Mac said, we can make more on logistics and contract finesse.

And here we are.

 

[Barelstroker]

China's ascendence in the consumer electronics side of things happened for a few reasons, and the domestic ones include domestic companies being bought and then liquidated (to eliminate competition), and domestic companies offshoring part of/all of mfre to China. Domestic companies -- their Officers and Directors -- willingly went down the de-industrialization path after Vietnam. Even McNamara admits to this in that Fog of War interview docu/movie, from DoD's POV, in the wake of Vietnam. Bobby Mac said, we can make more on logistics and contract finesse.

And here we are.

I think you're right. I think there were two other driving forces at work.
Being that China's population is reasonably well educated & controlled, this was viewed as fertile ground for cheap, effective labour. The problem was ofcourse that China 40 yrs ago didn't have the money or capital to build it's manufacturing infrastructure which was the impetus for moving so much of western industrial capital to China.
The second motivator was that the U.S had few customers who could afford the oil at the prices they demanded & so had few countries that could afford the U.S Petro dollars to purchase oil with. After all the massive expense of shoring up the middle east & selling the U.S as the "protection racket" cartel of the world, now it was time to create the customer base for the banks & money barons to.................

 

[flogxal]

I think you're right. I think there were two other driving forces at work.
Being that China's population is reasonably well educated & controlled, this was viewed as fertile ground for cheap, effective labour. The problem was ofcourse that China 40 yrs ago didn't have the money or capital to build it's manufacturing infrastructure which was the impetus for moving so much of western industrial capital to China.
The second motivator was that the U.S had few customers who could afford the oil at the prices they demanded & so had few countries that could afford the U.S Petro dollars to purchase oil with. After all the massive expense of shoring up the middle east & selling the U.S as the "protection racket" cartel of the world, now it was time to create the customer base for the banks & money barons to.................

What China did to ramp up industry in the past 25 yrs or so was to literally write off as wastelands certain industrial areas, which had no real pollution-reduction/elimination mindset -- much like USA between late 1800s and Vietnam War.

I guess they have so much land they can afford to create multiple hectares/acres/whatever of literal envirodesert, and toxic wasteland. Maybe they will make it like Yellowstone one day, guided theme park tours in a bus, where you look at the toxic wasteland and sometimes people fall into the water.

Drinking water has to come from somewhere. Plants you eat, you have to grow them in soil that isn't polluted and water that isn't polluted. I guess China has enough land it doesn't care about such things. I wouldn't want to live / work in those regions, worse than Pittsburgh's flying soot in its heyday.

 

[Mach]

I don't think anyone would want to live there, especially in Beijing. It looks quite dystopian on a low air quality day. They even have a screen so you can see the sunset.

 

[n2ishun]

Except the tundra doesn't even begin to compare to a 3500. Doesn't have the chassis or suspension to compete when using a truck for truck things.

My truck has a sticker on the door that it rolled out of Michigan. It has parts made in Canada and Mexico. My Yukon was made in Michigan, 2 other trucks made in Canada.

Buick is the one they're damn near importing from China, but it's the #1 selling car in China.

You should really look closer.
Very few parts (if any honestly) are made in the US on any GM product.
Very few parts are made in Canada.
The engine is likely built in messico, by real bean eating messicans.....and that's probably the best thing about the truck.
You won't find an electrical/electronic part anywhere on it not made in Chiwanistan by real Chiwanese that 1 generation ago were slogging thru rice paddies with an ox cart.

 

[Big Phish]

How many of you "Buy only American Made" pungent go without AC? That is so fucking laughable since you are supporting the nEW gREEN dEal frauds! Suffer you fuckers will because most of parts are made out of asia and by those lowly chinkos! Good luck with that!

 

[918v]

Counter? You obviously have no clue.

Have you compared the scopes I mentioned to have a relevant opinion?

So you can get S&B performance at 80% off? You must be vaccinated.

 

[Barelstroker]

So you can get S&B performance at 80% off? You must be vaccinated.

A lot of cheaper scopes will give damn near S & B performance in good light out to 300 or 400 yrds on 10x & under. About what most guys use their scopes at. I just don't believe the prices they demand are anywhere near what they could sell them for & still make an HONEST profit.
Anyhow, the next 2 or 3 yrs will sort the men from the boys, especially for the likes of S & B. They must be looking very carefully at their cash flow at the moment with their sales tanking in the civilian market due to the high inflationary pressures. S & B & the like are going to have to drop their prices soon or they'll go the way of the Dodo.

 

[Inifinty]

So you can get S&B performance at 80% off? You must be vaccinated.

I said under specific powers and in clarity and brightness only.

But here you are again with your insecurity trying to manipulate what I said into broad statements in the hopes of convincing yourself and others that you know what you're talking about.

Sad really.

 

[918v]

I said under specific powers and in clarity and brightness only.

But here you are again with your insecurity trying to manipulate what I said into broad statements in the hopes of convincing yourself and others that you know what you're talking about.

Sad really.

I’m not. You’re getting real emotional about your Chinese scope.

I asked you to compare apples to apples. You compared a low power scope to a high power scope. I once had a $299 Zeiss Conquest 3-9 and it had superb glass. So I bought the 4-14 and the glass wasn’t all that great. Turns out it’s pretty easy to make low power scopes look nice.

In conclusion, fuck you and your Vector scope.

 

[Barelstroker]

I’m not. You’re getting real emotional about your Chinese scope.

I asked you to compare apples to apples. You compared a low power scope to a high power scope. I once had a $299 Zeiss Conquest 3-9 and it had superb glass. So I bought the 4-14 and the glass wasn’t all that great. Turns out it’s pretty easy to make low power scopes look nice.

In conclusion, fuck you and your Vector scope.

I agree with you 918v that at long range, the expensive scopes definitely perform a good deal better. I have looked through Zeiss V8 models & they are something to behold at long range. They exude a clarity which is difficult to define when compared to the cheaper options.
Ofcourse we all know that in most cases, cost is probably the main consideration for most people, coupled with their reasoning on just how much more that 3x or 4x price difference will benefit them within the confines of their normal use.
You have to admit, some of the cheaper scopes are darn hard to beat when compared in good light at moderate ranges. They get the job done &, that's really all they have to do for most guys.
My next scope will be a thermal because I can swap that from rifle to rifle & have zero with the press of a button &, for 7 K, I'll get a lot more use out of the thermal than I ever would from a conventional 7K optic. When I want to shoot long range, I have my Struck Eagle & it does just fine for my use so, It's horses for courses, as it's always been.
The average shooter has to make compromises with nearly every purchase they make & it becomes second nature to see through the sales hyperbole & choose what gets the job done at an affordable price. Selling high end gear has always been a challenge & always will be.
I live is a country town where most guys are very practical with their purchases. The local gun dealers have a good choice of high end optics tailored mostly to the fox & roo shooters but, those scopes will sit in the cabinet for months before moving while the mid to low priced scopes fly out the door. I've seen many times customers gazing longingly at the beautiful expensive scopes, asking questions & taking a peak through them but, at the end, you see reality replace the glazed look as they hand the temptation back to the salesman & get back to what they know is a sensible compromise for them. It wouldn't matter how much better the top tier optics were when the manufacturers price themselves out of the running.
We are already at the point where the Japanese scopes are nipping the heals of the Germans &, that situation will only get worse for the top tier manufactures. It seems to me that the likes of S & B, Kahles, ZC, Tangent & etc will be forced to reconsider their marketing position within the next 5 years.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Something however to remember about all the cool electronic and thermal scopes that you get from pretty much anywhere, be it the USA or China or Japan etc, is that if things get serious don't be surprised if a lot of them suddenly wind up fried or malfunctioning in a big way.

EM spectrum warfare is a lot more crazy than you think. Even without any "backdoors" all kinds of things can be done like draining your car's batteries from a distance with radio waves. Frying the circuits in your electronic devices etc.

Not to mention, if things go hot, the EM signature from things such as your advanced electronic thermals and scopes could easily give your position away (nobody pays for shielding in the civilian market).

So while all is good and such, just remember it's a good idea to have some solid backup options that don't have any need for power to run.

 

[Mach]

Something however to remember about all the cool electronic and thermal scopes that you get from pretty much anywhere, be it the USA or China or Japan etc, is that if things get serious don't be surprised if a lot of them suddenly wind up fried or malfunctioning in a big way.

EM spectrum warfare is a lot more crazy than you think. Even without any "backdoors" all kinds of things can be done like draining your car's batteries from a distance with radio waves. Frying the circuits in your electronic devices etc.

Not to mention, if things go hot, the EM signature from things such as your advanced electronic thermals and scopes could easily give your position away (nobody pays for shielding in the civilian market).

So while all is good and such, just remember it's a good idea to have some solid backup options that don't have any need for power to run.

That's why I am a ACOG fanboy.

 

[Atomic_Lobster]

The only thing y'all have to remember is
Fuck china
Oh and Mach
I think he is a glowie

 

[Mach]

The only thing y'all have to remember is
Fuck china
Oh and Mach
I think he is a glowie

Definitely possible with whatever voodoo space magic he's on about.. Clearly he doesn't quite understand our immediate reality. That being said, its a good thing I have my tin foil hat on, so my brain frequencies aren't stolen, obviously. Jokes aside, I would imagine a EMP could zap a fair bit of battery powered optics. Gosh, wasn't there a weather balloon over America a while back?