Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

[Jon Lester]

What if a large company agreed to sponsor a huge and prestigious international sniper match and give the winning team a pair of the latest "whiz banger 1234" sniper rifle, that was the latest group contract sniper weapon, as a first place prize. That would be pretty cool huh? Over the past couple years the hard charging first place teams have taken home there "whiz bangers" and some even wind up on cool forums for sale,cool right?
What about when this big supply contract company shows up with there rifle sporting it about as the prize rifle and contestants get to finger f--- it,dreaming of taking one home, Cool right?
Then Big supplier finds out that the guys setting up the big match screwed up and have no way to mount NV on the proprietary contract sniper rifle, so the entire match will be ran with brand X gas gun to accommodate the NV gear, That would suck huh?
Well, what about when a team from the pointy end of the spear win said match, wait a full 7 months, then after numerous calls and messages, there "Whiz Banger 1234" shows up only to be a USED DIRTY with sticky tape residue, whiz banger chassis with a standard wall mart grade barreled action bolted in, one guys was only semi bolted in, as it was loose enough to touch the tube on both sides. Not only does this SUCK ASS but the timed delivery came less than 2 weeks before this team took a trip across the Globe to hopefully lay waste to legions of booger eaters, Now that Really SUCKS!!!

Why one of our country's largest firearms manufacturers choose to bend over a Military Team, from the pointy end, and ram one in, I do not know. But what I do know is they have my last dollar, and although it will mean nothing to them, it will to me.

Shame on You Big Green, this was distasteful and dishonest!

 

[Kevlars]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

Ok for the rest of us ... can I buy a vowel on the name of the company cause I don't want to support a company that would do such a thing .. unless this is purely fiction.

-K

 

[Kells81]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevlars</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok for the rest of us ... can I buy a vowel on the name of the company cause I don't want to support a company that would do such a thing .. unless this is purely fiction.

-K </div></div>

Big Green says it all........ If you need more than that you need to buy another clue for 100...

 

[Jon Lester]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

Absolutely not fiction, this happened last fall and the rifles were delivered within the last month. The reason for the switch-a-roo is purely speculation as know one knows why after giving away a pair of authentic rifles in the past, they advertise the same thing, then deliver used chassis and there std barreled actions.

 

[northern50]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

Shows what kind of people Remington really is....

 

[SSG3K]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

this will be good, hopefully see you at a match this year Jon.

IBTL

Rich

 

[Jon Lester]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

At least they were 300 WMs when they came.

 

[Pusher591]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

Doesn't surprise me at all.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

Not to defend their action, I think it was poor taste to switch, but to make one observation.

When companies sponsor the get pretty upset when they see their prize for sales on Monday morning after a match. Especially if they consider it a world class, one of a kind item. In their mind it is suppose to mean something and reward the winner.

In the future a competition of this kind might want to solicite getting cash for these guys as it appears that would be more appreciated then a rifle.

 

[Jon Lester]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

Frank, I too am troubled to see vendors items in the for sale section on Mondays and Tuesdays following a match. I almost had to do it myself once as I picked up something that was not what I thought it was, so I called the company owner to explain why I would sell it,and he just made a direct trade for what I needed.
My issue is: Why show up with a prize rifle, state it is a prize rifle, allow everyone that wants to play with it, Then send 2 used chassis and a 700 pss/LTR barreled actions to the winners 7 months later?
The winners of the Comp had nothing to do with last years match procedures.

 

[lw8]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

Thats pretty shitty IMO for a company to do that.

 

[Mirnyx]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not to defend their action, I think it was poor taste to switch, but to make one observation.

When companies sponsor the get pretty upset when they see their prize for sales on Monday morning after a match. Especially if they consider it a world class, one of a kind item. In their mind it is suppose to mean something and reward the winner.

In the future a competition of this kind might want to solicite getting cash for these guys as it appears that would be more appreciated then a rifle. </div></div>

Any company that puts up product as a prize needs to understand the winner has zero obligation to use or keep their product. More often than not companies are providing product rather than cash because it's cheaper / easier.

For the record, this was not a classy move by Big Green.

 

[VJJPunisher]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

cause st john no need new whiz bangs

 

[BookHound]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

In this case the winners (or at least one of them) did want to keep the rifle.

Jon won't toot his own horn so I'll make a comment about HIS character and what he did when he saw the rifles. I've first-hand seen one of the barreled actions that went into these prize rifles. Like Jon said, they were something that could have come right off the shelf at Wal-Mart. Jon gave one of his own match barrel blanks to one of the rifle winners so the guy could at least have a quality barrel installed.

Very classy guy, that Jon fellow. He is very much a man of principle and integrity. That is why this has him upset and I understand his point.

Mark

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

Someone didn't read the fine print.

 

[Megahoser]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

More than likely it was <span style="font-style: italic">not</span> a corporate decision to hose you...just the douche-bag responsible for sending you your goods decided to pocket the real deal, and just send you his dregs. I bet he justified it to himself based on the <span style="font-style: italic">complications</span> that occurred at the match.

 

[lennyo3034]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

I'm confused as to why they had to wait at all, much less 7 months. Shouldn't they have been able to take the rifles home immediately after the match? Since the rifles were there anyways...

 

[Rob01]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mirnyx</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any company that puts up product as a prize needs to understand the winner has zero obligation to use or keep their product. More often than not companies are providing product rather than cash because it's cheaper / easier.

For the record, this was not a classy move by Big Green. </div></div>

I agree on both points. Seeing as most matches cost me about $1000-1200 to go to including airfare/hotel/car rental/parking/food etc, I have no problem selling anything I win. We aren't winning the Holy Grail. It's a piece of gear. Someone will get to use it but paying for my trip is more important to me. I thank them for donating to help me do that.

As to the rifle, that is a pretty messed up situation. They should have giving them the rifles right there or within a reasonable time frame and the rifle they should have gotten. Not good PR for them.

 

[Jon Lester]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Someone didn't read the fine print.

</div></div>

If it is something missed hit me here or by PM. A misunderstanding somewhere should be found out about if it exists. But I have personally held the prizes from the previous years event that contained the same dog and pony show.They were full blown whiz bangers.

Why would a Prize at a match of this caliber, with Competitors of this caliber, contain fine print? Do they ask us to read fine print before they step off the skids to provide for a free nation?

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon Lester</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Someone didn't read the fine print.

</div></div>

If it is something missed hit me here or by PM. A misunderstanding somewhere should be found out about if it exists. But I have personally held the prizes from the previous years event that contained the same dog and pony show.They were full blown whiz bangers.

Why would a Prize at a match of this caliber, with Competitors of this caliber, contain fine print? Do they ask us to read fine print before they step off the skids to provide for a free nation?</div></div>
Bad shot at humor. Serious shot at get things in writing.

 

[-=boone=-]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

Would it be possible to kick them out?

 

[mulletchef]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

Quality and integrity have suffered since being owned by the Freedom Group which in turn is owned by Cerberus Capital management,in which George Soros has controlling intrest.We all know how this goes.

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MULLETHEAD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Quality and integrity have suffered since being owned by the Freedom Group which in turn is owned by Cerberus Capital management,in which George Soros has controlling intrest.We all know how this goes. </div></div>
Don't know where you are getting your information but you are wrong. Soros does not own Freedom group or Cergerus. Here is the rundown.

The anonymous author of this chain letter asks why the media haven’t reported that George Soros is connected to a company that is buying a lot of other companies that make guns and ammunition. The answer to that question is simple: because it isn’t true.

Soros doesn’t own Cerberus Capital Management, a private equity firm founded in 1992 by Stephen Feinberg and William Richter. Both Feinberg and Richter currently serve as two of the firm’s senior managing directors. And Feinberg, also the firm’s chief executive officer, is an avid hunter.

Soros, a billionaire philanthropist and known supporter of Democratic causes, isn’t even one of the company’s 26 senior executives. But the firm’s senior executives do include former Republican Vice President Dan Quayle and former Republican Treasury Secretary John Snow.

It’s true, however, that Cerberus Capital Management owns Freedom Group, a leading company in the manufacturing and marketing of guns and ammunition. And it’s also true that in recent years Freedom Group has acquired many of the firearms and ammunition manufacturing companies mentioned in the email, including Bushmaster Firearms (in April 2006), Remington (in May 2007) and Marlin (in January 2008). But that’s about all the author of this latest viral message gets right.

It has even been taken apart online by none other than the National Rifle Association, the largest gun-rights lobbying organization in the United States. The NRA’s Institute for Legislative Action called the rumor “completely false and baseless.”


NRA-ILA, Oct. 14: Recently, an old rumor regarding Cerberus–the private equity firm that owns Freedom group, a holding company that in turn owns a number of firearms manufacturers, including Remington, Marlin, Bushmaster, and DPMS–was in some way tied to George Soros.

This rumor is completely false and baseless.

NRA has had contact with officials from Cerberus and Freedom Group for some time. The owners and investors involved are strong supporters of the Second Amendment and are avid hunters and shooters.

In reality, at no time has George Soros ever been a part of the ownership group of Freedom Group or Cerberus, and as a privately traded corporation, there is no possibility that he will be in the future.

This unsubstantiated rumor has caused a great deal of unnecessary concern for gun owners. NRA-ILA urges our members to take great care before repeating baseless rumors found on the Internet.

So, there’s no need to pass this one on to “all your freedom loving friends” as the email asks.

So please don't feed the trolls.

 

[RADcustom]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MULLETHEAD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Quality and integrity have suffered since being owned by the Freedom Group which in turn is owned by Cerberus Capital management,in which George Soros has controlling intrest.We all know how this goes. </div></div>

I have heard this several times as a rumor but have never found anything to substantiate these allegations. Do you have proof of this, or are you just repeating something you heard?
I would genuinely like to know.

 

[RADcustom]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MULLETHEAD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Quality and integrity have suffered since being owned by the Freedom Group which in turn is owned by Cerberus Capital management,in which George Soros has controlling intrest.We all know how this goes. </div></div>
...(snip)

This unsubstantiated rumor has caused a great deal of unnecessary concern for gun owners. NRA-ILA urges our members to take great care before repeating baseless rumors found on the Internet.

So, there’s no need to pass this one on to “all your freedom loving friends” as the email asks.

So please don't feed the trolls. </div></div>

Thanks for the reply Mech.

 

[Jon Lester]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

Regardless of the owner, those rifles did not change Remingtons bottom line for 2011. There had to have been other motives, This was not an executive decision.

 

[cavemanmoore]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon Lester</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Regardless of the owner, those rifles did not change Remingtons bottom line for 2011. There had to have been other motives, This was not an executive decision. </div></div>

You are correct. Remington is a large organization, comprised of many people. One of those people made a poor judgement call and they should be held responsible.

Oh, and thank you for your service.

 

[digger9523]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

Is there any chance the real prize rifles were intercepted in the mail and replaced with the horse shit the boys received by some unscrupulous mofo? I'd like to think that's the case, but I'm not convinced it is. Shame on Remington.

This would be a good time for AI to step in and support the competition instead maybe?

 

[Raven 6]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

Has anyone tried calling someone at Remington to get somekind of reason for short changing the winners? I think a good explaination on their part is due.

 

[Jon Lester]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cavemanmoore</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon Lester</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Regardless of the owner, those rifles did not change Remingtons bottom line for 2011. There had to have been other motives, This was not an executive decision. </div></div>

You are correct. Remington is a large organization, comprised of many people. One of those people made a poor judgement call and they should be held responsible.

Oh, and thank you for your service. </div></div>

No thanks to me Sir, I am a lowly Coal miner, Those competitors are the hero's and true friends, who deserve the credit.

 

[Jon Lester]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

Yes, the guys went through the channels that they used to get the rifles after 7 months. Little discussion then Rem went Dark.

No chance of a mix up, guns had to be registered by serial number. They initially thought that it was the wrong package and had the # checked.

 

[Raven 6]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

I don't suppose climbing the chain of command at Rem would make any differance? I feel for those men, I would be pissed if I were in their shoes. I could get totally side tracked about company's and the shit they are pulling these days but I want go there.

 

[Mirnyx]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

If everyone starts hammering Remington on Facebook and Twitter about this, it's very likely they'll step up and do the right thing.

 

[Muttt]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

Here's thier email ..............


[email protected]

Have at it.


It's stuff like this that makes me want to buy from someone else.

 

[slowr1der]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

I don't see the attraction to current production Remington rifles, for many many reasons, but for some reason some people still insist on buying them.

 

[Mirnyx]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Muttt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's thier email ..............

[email protected]

Have at it. </div></div>

Email won't get a response because it's not visible to the general public. Social media is visible and sticks around for people to see which is why companies respond to it so well.

 

[Glockster35]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

I agree that Social Media outlets are the way to get a company to fix an issue.

Anything posted is there for others to see, spoecifically on twitter. Not so much for Facebook, as it is too easy for the admin to delete a post. https://twitter.com/#!/remingtonarms


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mirnyx</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Muttt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's thier email ..............

[email protected]

Have at it. </div></div>

Email won't get a response because it's not visible to the general public. Social media is visible and sticks around for people to see which is why companies respond to it so well. </div></div>

 

[mulletchef]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

Sorry for not researching my information deep enough, thanks to the mechanic for the feedback,I'll be more careful in the future.

 

[juliomorris]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

I won't be doing business with big green or any company owned by freedom group. If they treat a GI this way f@#$ them I will keep my money.

 

[Mattrmvpd]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

What JOHN was it that gave the barrel up to help out??

If you can give his name...

Matt.

 

[Kells81]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mm128</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What JOHN was it that gave the barrel up to help out??

If you can give his name...

Matt. </div></div>

Fix the spelling on that name and look at the names that have posted in this thread and you will find the answer. Hint, Jon is the spelling your looking for on this one.

 

[Cornholeo]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

I do not compete in matches, not even close to being good enough. I do believe that if a company puts down something on a prize table that it should be HONORed. As Jon said, they do not ask us to read fine print before they step off the skids to protect us.
A total lack of honor and integrity on Remington's rep and/or company for this. Hopefully someone will make this right for the guys involved.

 

[juliomorris]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

This needs to stay at the top for awhile.

 

[clj94104]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

I just hit @remingtonarms on twitter. I hope you gentlemen do the same. I would appreciate a little more info on the prize rifles promised in case they actually respond or someone else does. Terrible way to make people who are loyal to the brand stay loyal. I for one have wanted an AI for a while. Thanks guys.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Re: Thoughts on a Firearms company like this

Hell of a way to run a pony show. Thank you Jon, for all your efforts.

If only everyone had integrity and honor, eh?