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Thoughts on long range .22LR

MarinePMI

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  • Jun 3, 2010
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    I see a lot of posts and interest in shooting the .22LR at long range. It has definitely come a long way since the early days of postal matches and "black death" targets and other silly BS.

    That being said, I see a lot of folks really trying to stretch the little .22 case to it's utmost potential. A noble, if somewhat futile effort. That being said, there is no arguing the lessons to be learned in calling the wind, as it is dramatically much more apparent with the .22LR at range than just about any other cartridge out there.

    But, if we are really going to push the little .22LR to it's fullest potential, leveraging new powder technologies and bullet designs, I would argue that something will have to change in addition to the aforementioned variables. (This all assumes that we are constrained to the ".22LR" case and caliber.)

    All this being said, here's what I have been thinking.

    What we really need for a dedicated .22LR long range rig are two things:

    1. Ammo, loaded on the .22LR case, but exceeds typical .22LR case length (think of a scaled up Aguila SSS round; which is a 22Short case with a honking 60gr bullet loading on top).

    2. A rifle action that supports this longer ammo, and has magazines to support this longer ammo (say, like a precision .22 Mag action, but with a modified .22LR chamber).

    With regards to the ammo, the limiting factor for a high BC bullet is the cartridge length. The heeled bullet of a .22LR, while not ballistically optimum, can be over come somewhat just by lengthening the round and making it of a lighter material (think alloy, non-lead). But, this will make the round exceed it's establish OAL.

    Therefore what we'd need is an action that can support a longer COAL, and already has a magazine system capable of feeding the longer round (the hardest part of any rifle design). I suspect a .22Mag action would easily support this. The chamber (obviously) would have to be cut for the .22LR case with longer, more pointed and ballistically efficient bullets. As to whether this would be seen as an entirely new round, or just a modified chamber, I'm unsure (since there's no reason you couldn't shoot standard .22LR ammo out of this chamber safely).

    The upshot of all this is that the manufacture of the ammo could leverage existing .22LR case drawing and forming machinery, priming and charging machinery, and seating process could (with modifications) likely be accomplished with .22 Mag tooling/dies.

    Developing/modifying these two things would allow the development in powder/priming technology and bullet design to be leveraged into supporting a small bore LR capability that would expose many more shooters to LR shooting, but who are constrained to shorter ranges.

    At any rate, I've thought about this a great deal, and have my doubts about any of the big manufacturers being interested in this sort of concept, but figured I'd toss it out there for the Hide to chew on (I've mentioned it to a few people in the trade, and never really got much of a response).

    If anything, at least it's thinking outside the box a little...and isn't one of my craziest ideas I've ever had. :)
     
    Pretty much. A beefy .22 Mag action would be nice (like an old CZ 452 with dual lugs). It's probably overkill, since SAAMI spec is 28k psi max for all rimfires except the 5mm and maybe the new 20 cal rimfire (can't remember the designator off the top of my head).

    Basically, an action in .22Mag length with a working magazine. More robust would be better, but not necessarily required. A Voodoo in .22 Mag/.17HMR length would actually fit the bill perfectly, but I doubt they'd go there.

    Still, it'd make an interesting project. Like mentioned before, the concept is similar to the Aguila SSS round, but based on a 22LR case instead of a .22Short case.

    aguila60a.jpg
     
    I'd be interested to know what that is.
    Brain fart on my part. I was referring to the 17WSM (which obviously is not a .20 cal).

    The 5mm Rem Mag remains as the solitary .20 cal rimfire (which SAAMI spec limits it to 38k psi, a significant delta from standard rimfire cartridges). I'm unsure what the SAAMI pressure limit is on the 17 WSM. I haven't played a lot in the rimfire world since the debut/reintroduction of the 5mmRM. 7 years of work and planning burned me out on rimfires for a while (never mind the .17HS/Aguila that died on the vine when the 17HM2 was released). Come to think of it, I've still got a buttload of prototype ammo for both of those cartridges...
     
    I was wondering if you were thinking of Aguila reintroducing 5mm ammo to the US market under their own brand this year.


    (scroll to the bottom of the page for the two 5mm loads)
     
    It was actually reintroduced several years ago (Centurion was a subsidiary of Aguila and Industrias Technos). There are reasons why it was reintroduced under the Aguila name, and why there was a delay. But I won't air dirty laundry in public. All I'll say is that: Corporate politics can be some dirty fighting.
     
    Imagine match grade ballistic tip 22wmr.
    I hear RWS makes 22wmr to higher standards than typical 22wmr. (25 bucks a box of 50)
    Haven't put my hands on any to try, but I'd sure like to.
     
    I've shot that stuff, and it was very good ammunition...but also (as stated) very pricey. Not sure if RWS even brings it into the country anymore.
     
    The main problem with rimfire ammo and long range use
    is the abundance of cartridge defects caused by the manufacturing process.
    Irregular brass dimensions, asymmetric bullets, variations in primer amounts/chemistry
    differences in seating depth/angle and the methods used in handling the components
    during the assembly all lead to difficulty in obtaining consistent trajectories
    especially when time of flight/gravity/aerodynamics are involved.

    It's not a real problem, though.
    I can still hand load 5.56 if I feel the need for 22 caliber precision at extended range, eh? :D

    WOfDOs5j7UxFrUyavUS8TRKS0WHoTIJWySRpMuFJZRS3D_KF5B_XfJ2nZgB5YCQM5rQTJTGAeb4F0l_gZg=w501-h660
     
    Theis,

    That's a valid option for sure (though necking down isn't needed, unless you're implying pushing the shoulder back a bit). The case's plastic coating and thin rim do pose a few issues though, since they are far from a robust case (ask how I know :LOL:). When the first 5.7x28mm dies came out, the corresponding shell holder had the standard large primer hole, which left the rim largely unsupported. As a result, rims would constantly snap off as the case was resized. I ended up turning a small bushing to sleeve the hole and the problem was solved. Not sure if RCBS ever corrected that issue. A cute cartridge for sure though, but still a centerfire.

    As to the rimfire reloading, it can be done at a match grade level, comparable to centerfire, but the machines have to be slowed down drastically (hence the cost increase) to minimize variations and impacts of tooling within the machines. The faster the machine goes, the sloppier the output. This goes for the loading machines, as well as the bullet making/swaging and priming machines. WRT priming, the inconsistencies a lot of folks see with rimfire is due to the older (liquid priming mix), which is dropped into the formed case and then the case is spun, relying on centrifugal force to push the priming mix into the rim. As the case slows down though, the priming mix can become less uniform and therefore brisance variations are seen. With the (relatively) newer Eley priming method (regardless of whether it is an Eley made priming mix or not) it is actually a paste. This paste is metered/measured out and dropped into the case, followed by an precision plunger, that presses the mix into the rim, which allows a uniform amount to be put in the case, as well as an additional mix to be spread uniformly across the case head (determined by how far down the plunger goes). The result is a much more consistent ignition (obviously, the paste has to be dried out as well). The additional benefit is that the priming mix paste is much safer to handle (at least until it dries) than the liquid stuff.

    Rimfire ammo is unique in that it isn't just the powder that determines performance and accuracy, but also the priming mix. The priming mix is part of the reloading recipe for a given round (unlike centerfire, which remains fairly consistent across primers available to reloaders and industry). So a given rimfire reloading recipe may be 7grs of industrial powder blend "X" (comprised of two or more powders blended together to achieve a specific burn rate and pressure) and a priming mix of "Y" milligrams (25mg for example). The point being, with rimfire ammo, the loading recipe is an order of magnitude more complex than centerfire, since the priming is an additional variable (thereby increasing the number of permutations available to achieve a given performance spec). Definitely a head scratching (and interesting) endeavor (developing rimfire loads that is), an definitely on par with some of the complexities/nuances to reloading small, sub-caliber (.20, .19, .17 and .14 cal) cases. Small cases can get go from clearly within pressure range, to waaayyyy over pressure, with just a minute change to a single variable.
     
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    Hi,

    Hmmmm.... 5.7 case (So reloading problems can be accounted for and controlled) necked down to run a monolothic 60gr (For better ballistics) 22 projectile :).

    Sincerely,
    Theis

    I just started reloading for 5.7x28 last week. I've had some hurdles to overcome, mostly the dies and shell holders. It'd take 15 minutes of typing to tell all about this dilemma so I'll refrain. Not that I didn't overcome or not that it's not a fun little case!

    I know this post is just a fun one but...

    As most of us know it's the poor ES and like Justin keeps mentioning the inconsistencies in manufacturing that are a big problem with rimfire.

    Say those two problems were overcome, how much would ammo then cost, who'd pay $25 to $30 a box a 50???

    I'd be happy with a heavier higher BC bullet in 22LR that was of a decent quality standard, then call it good for $10 a box of 50. It's up to the manufacturers to investigate what shape and how heavy a bullet will stabilize in normal twists for 22rf. Past this advent I'm not interested in trying to make a 22 what it's not.

    17 hmr suffers from the manufacturing plight also and at longer distances that 17 grainers impact in dirt or grass is hard to see sometimes.

    I haven't tried those 50 grain self defense loads in my HK300 22mag but those 30 grainers have a horrible low BC, going off memory it's like .11.

    Well, this is part of the reason I got my 20-221AI, super performance in a small case. 32's at 3735 fps on 18.8 grains of powder in a 21" barrel, (That's about the same as 22-250 ballistics with 50's but less energy, recoil, barrel heating and noise, plus cheaper too). Not uncommon to produce some 1.25" sized splats on steel at 300Y on a calm day. If I ever get bored I'll try some trail boss with 32's at 1100 or so.

    There's also powerful PCP air rifles using slugs. There's a video on youtube of a guy hitting pop cans at 400Y without too much fuss.

    For the fun of it, right?!
     
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    Form some cases for that 20-221AI out of LC brass, and stand back and be amazed at how hard you can push those 32gr bullets. Those tough cases really let you push that wildcat to a mind numbing level of performance. 600yd hits on things was pretty common for an old friend of mine running the "standard" .20Vartarg.
     
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    Form some cases for that 20-221AI out of LC brass, and stand back and be amazed at how hard you can push those 32gr bullets. Those tough cases really let you push that wildcat to a mind numbing level of performance. 600yd hits on things was pretty common for an old friend of mine running the "standard" .20Vartarg.

    I'm too lazy, lol. Good suggestion for someone wanting to put in the work.

    Seen guys reaching 4000 fps in longer barrels with AA2200 but then there's the temp sensitivity, barrel heating faster, less barrel life, etc, so I'm happy where I'm at. The low node was 3550 fps but ES was higher. Bolt got sticky at 19.1 grains of H4198 so...
     
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    In the end what would be achieved of the modified 22lr scenario given the expense of a highly customized action, cambering, ammo. I can only see weight savings potentially. And that is only minimally benefited given other cambering options. One of the other posts on this subject was I believe intending for use on a uav where weight savings in grams are much more critical at the expense of the added costs.
     
    In the end, I guess the benefit is more from a manufacturing perspective (no significant tooling change other than bullets and bullet loading tooling).

    On the consumer side, better performance at long range while "technically" still shooting a .22LR based round. Of no doubt, it'd be highly specific (niche if you will), but let's face it; people are spending something like $1800 on a Voodoo barreled action.

    At any rate, it's just a thought that's been rolling around the brain housing group for a while now...
     
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    As to the rimfire reloading, it can be done at a match grade level, comparable to centerfire,
    but the machines have to be slowed down drastically (hence the cost increase) to minimize variations
    and impacts of tooling within the machines. The faster the machine goes, the sloppier the output.


    Y'er right, which is why I giggle when folks claim CCI SV is great ammo.
    Watch the CCI plant tour on YouTube and do so with a critical eye.
    Primer application, dumping components from 1 bin into another
    and dropping bullets at height from the tumbler to the cart.
    Lead is a soft metal and those are finished bullets heading to the seating press.
    24 inch fall isn't going to be conducive to producing symmetrical bullets.
    Think of the impact on the edges of the bullet heels.
    No wonder so many strays show up on target due to CCI component handling.

    DUMP.jpg
     
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