Gunsmithing Threaded barrel (thread protector) help.

[zxGrizz]

Hello snipers

Introduction/background:

I'm pretty new to all this. Always had a interest in long range precision shooting I've just never made the leap and put the money into it. I'm really into bow hunting and know all to well constancy is accuracy, that small errors become bigger and bigger the further away you shoot. I have and have owned many guns but mainly average hunting rifles.($200-$600 range moa rifles with 3lbs+ triggers and sportster barrels)

I've made the leap and purchased a savage 10 6.5 creedmoor the previous owner had the barrel cut from 24" to 18" threaded and was kind enough to send me a flash hider to protect the threads. Problem is I have to take the FH off everytime I shoot because it decreases accuracy. My guess is it's not indexed( I don't have shims or a crush washer). I've only fired 20 rounds of ELD-m 140grain total so I don't have much info to share but here is my first 4 round group after firing only 6 shots before hand at 100yard. 3 rounds to check point of impact 3 rounds to confirm zero then this group.

That's without the FH shooting off a crappy walmart sand bag and my jacket lol but I'm fairly certain the gun will shoot even tighter of it wasn't for me. I'm not used to this 1.5lbs trigger at all but I love it haha.

Anyways if I snug the FH on the point of impact changes and I get a looser group/"gathering ". Instead of buying a new FH or shims/crush washer to improve it I'd just rather have a simple thread protector.

I'm just worried a thread protector will also affect accuracy if I don't buy a proper one for my rifle. "Proper" as in a certain type of metal, thickness to match barrel, length and shape also since I have no plans to screw on a can, MB or FH I thought maybe I should use a crush washer to torque it down to have even contact or even glue/seal it to minimize it coming loose and slightly altering vibrations) keeping the same contact. I've looked at alot of thread protectors and I have no clue how know if it's the same thickness as my barrel or if the threads are long enough,what metal it should be made of etc.


Forgot to mention how ugly it looks with open threads and I know ugly decreases accuracy too so It be a plus if the thread protector wasn't a hideous eye sore too.

Only info I have is:
6.5 creedmoor
Savage model 10( possibly model 10T)
1/8 twist 24" cut to 18" bull barrel
Threaded 5/8-24
Don't know what type of crown was put on it.
Here are some pics..

Warning the following bpictures could cause spontaneous gagging and eye pain.

 

[OREGUN]

Get any old 5/8x24, shoot through protector and party on. It won’t have nearly the effect of that FH, if any at all.


Here’s an example from a very reputable manufacturer.

Thread Protectors & Action Screws - Hawkins Precision Rifle Components

Hawkins Precision provides precision rifle components such as thread protectors and action screws to enhance your shooting experience. Our components are made in the USA!

hawkinsprecision.com

 

[Makinchips208]

What Oregon said.
Lots of options for inexpensive thread protectors, made in USA.

18mm x 1 RH Thread Protector .812″ Diameter, .625″ Long, M18x1 Blued – SKU#9180 - Hughes Precision LLC

M18 x 1 Right Hand .812" O.D. X .625" Long CVA and Sako TRG BLUED Fluted Thread Protector FACTORY DIRECT TO YOU PRICE $11.95

hughesprecision.com

 

[zxGrizz]

Get any old 5/8x24, shoot through protector and party on. It won’t have nearly the effect of that FH, if any at all.


Here’s an example from a very reputable manufacturer.

Thread Protectors & Action Screws - Hawkins Precision Rifle Components

Hawkins Precision provides precision rifle components such as thread protectors and action screws to enhance your shooting experience. Our components are made in the USA!

hawkinsprecision.com

Ya I figured it wouldn't because I believe the uneven gas displacement was mainly causing the issue but I was wondering if it would be best to get a thread protector that's the exact same OD as the barrel that didn't overlap the crown. I guess it does really matter.

What about alittle blue lock tight to make sure it stays put it is there something that would handle the possible high heat better?

Thanks for that link

 

[zxGrizz]

What Oregon said.
Lots of options for inexpensive thread protectors, made in USA.

18mm x 1 RH Thread Protector .812″ Diameter, .625″ Long, M18x1 Blued – SKU#9180 - Hughes Precision LLC

M18 x 1 Right Hand .812" O.D. X .625" Long CVA and Sako TRG BLUED Fluted Thread Protector FACTORY DIRECT TO YOU PRICE $11.95

hughesprecision.com

Wow I was expecting to spend over double that. I guess I'm over thinking this lol.

 

[OREGUN]

I wouldn’t put any thread locker on there if it were mine but you probably could. I’m not sure that blue Loctite would hold up to the heat. You could use rocksett . That would take the heat and be easy enough to get off with water.

You should also really consider just putting a good brake on there. Something like a GEN two little bastard or one of 419s offerings. It will be expensive but it will actually improve your accuracy and increase your ability to spot your own shots, the importance of which cannot be overstated.

 

[zxGrizz]

I wouldn’t put any thread locker on there if it were mine but you probably could. I’m not sure that blue Loctite would hold up to the heat. You could use rocksett . That would take the heat and be easy enough to get off with water.

You should also really consider just putting a good brake on there. Something like a GEN two little bastard or one of 419s offerings. It will be expensive but it will actually improve your accuracy and increase your ability to spot your own shots, the importance of which cannot be overstated.

That was what I was going to do but I thought it needs to be done by a gunsmith and for a good brake plus gunsmith fee it was $200+. I also read on the same thread people posting it decreased thier accuracy.

 

[Average guy]

APA bastard series, Area 419, Insite Arms all offer self timing brakes. Super easy to self install. The APA will probably give you the most recoil reduction, but they are damn loud. I have 3. My next brake will be an Insite arms. Good recoil reduction but not near as obnoxious.

 

[OREGUN]

That was what I was going to do but I thought it needs to be done by a gunsmith and for a good brake plus gunsmith fee it was $200+. I also read on the same thread people posting it decreased thier accuracy.

It will be more expensive ($150 or so). Get a “self timing” brake, that allows you to use a locking nut and some engineering magic to install the brake, easily and repeatably, at home, with basic tools. Hawkins Precision ST Tank Brake, APA Gen 2 or 3 “Bastard” series, Area 419, all excellent choices. I don’t want to speak definitively about all cases but all of my rifles have worn these brakes at some point and I’ve never had a decrease in accuracy. I mostly reload and mostly have large diameter barrels so maybe a change in harmonics with factory ammo on a skinny barrel would cause a shift in POI, I just haven’t seen it. Recoil is absolutely reduced which makes it easier to execute the fundamentals and thus, consistent precision is more likely.

I just helped a friend set up a new Savage Axis II. We put a gen 2 lil bastard on it and she’s shooting factory ammo well within any expected accuracy.

 

[zxGrizz]

It will be more expensive ($150 or so). Get a “self timing” brake, that allows you to use a locking nut and some engineering magic to install the brake, easily and repeatably, at home, with basic tools. Hawkins Precision ST Tank Brake, APA Gen 2 or 3 “Bastard” series, Area 419, all excellent choices. I don’t want to speak definitively about all cases but all of my rifles have worn these brakes at some point and I’ve never had a decrease in accuracy. I mostly reload and mostly have large diameter barrels so maybe a change in harmonics with factory ammo on a skinny barrel would cause a shift in POI, I just haven’t seen it. Recoil is absolutely reduced which makes it easier to execute the fundamentals and thus, consistent precision is more likely.

I just helped a friend set up a new Savage Axis II. We put a gen 2 lil bastard on it and she’s shooting factory ammo well within any expected accuracy.

That's good to hear. Ya I was looking at similar muzzle brakes. I didn't see ones with locking nuts but was really considering one I seen with a crush washer I feel like it would give me solid contact and allow me to true the brake to the barrel. I'm still not clear on how I'll be able to index it precisely. I have a wheeler "professional" scope leveling kit but that would only really work on a flat wide brake like you see on barrett rifles and I don't like the design of those but I do know why the made them that way.

I think I'd rather have one that evenly displaces the gas in every direction or as mush as possible. I feel one like that will have less accuracy issues and also be more rookie friendly.

Like I said I'm very new to all this and don't have much experience with working on guns or with muzzle brakes so I probably am wrong but when I think about a gun firing and round. I picture the bullet traveling tightly through the barrel spinning with the rifling with a large amount of gas behind it and possibly a small amount infront of it, then once the bullet leaves the barrel that gas passes the round and since my barrel is only 18 inch then it's probably at a higher rate than most so in my eyes I'd want something that will displace it quicker. I also imagine if it didn't displace it evenly in all directions then it could cause the rifle to jump a certain way before the round completely cleared the brake or some sort over uneven pressure on the round. As usual I'm probably over thinking all this and probably wrong about how Im visualizing it happening with what little I know about all this but I'd like to know how it works so I can buy the right brake and install it correctly.

 

[zxGrizz]

APA bastard series, Area 419, Insite Arms all offer self timing brakes. Super easy to self install. The APA will probably give you the most recoil reduction, but they are damn loud. I have 3. My next brake will be an Insite arms. Good recoil reduction but not near as obnoxious.

I don't know what brake is on my ar but you ain't kidding about brakes in general making guns louder. I had just bought my first AR and sighted it in(with ear protection). Like I do with any new gun I get. I find a excuse to take it hunting to see what it will do.

I'd seen coyotes a few times they hunting so figured I go sit in that turkey blind and see if I'd get lucky enough to see them again this time with something that had more reach than my shotgun with turkey loads. They have killed alot of our chickens,ducks and even our outside cats kittens so I got a grudge to settle if I do see one.

Out of nowhere 3 of them came gliding by 40 yard away really quietly This was 6 years ago so I was 21 or 22. I'm in a single man blind with all the windows zipped closed except for the front one which is cracked about 8 inches. At the time I had no clue how loud this ar was going to be shooting from this . I shoot and drop one instantly felling ear and head pain, I fire 2 more shots at one running while I'm still in a daze from the first shot thinking ouch that hurts I missing both times I remember my vision shaking every time I shot and the sharp pain in my ears and head. my brain said stop after the first shot but my finger kept pulling the trigger ... The third shot got me so good that I just laid the gun down defeated thinking about how big of a idiot I was looking at the coyotes running away through my now 2'x 2' hole that the ar blast ripped in my blind. My ears rang or a week and I'll already know what story I'm going to be telling my grandkids when they ask why I need hearing aids.

Good news is I was above average on a hearing test we have to do at my job a year after that hopefully no permanent damage occurred but my wife says I don't hear anything she says

 

[Makinchips208]

Thats a funny story!
I’ll second the fact that I have never personally seen a brake degrade accuracy, for hunting or pinging steel in my experience. Get one of the brands others have suggested and you will be good.

 

[OREGUN]

Don’t over think it. The best brakes have three or so ports that displace gas to the sides and rearward. There is not a single precision rifle shooter who advocates for a round brake with ports all around the circumference….and there are a few, like @lowlight himself who will come right out and say that the design is worthless.

Indexing a self timing brake is super simple…much easier than a crush washer or peel washer arrangement. It’s also not critical that the thing be absolutely level. There is no need for a level in the installation process. Eyeball it and you are close enough. There’s virtually no truth to the wives‘ tale about wanting the brake to be slightly canted to counteract the asymmetric recoil impulse caused by the rifling twist or whatever such nonsense you read on the inter webs.

Also, wear hearing protection. Always. Hearing damage is cumulative and permanent and tinnitus is real and real annoying.

 

[SporterII]

I would consider the possibility the shoulder is not square. A better version of a brake, sure but I had a questionable muzzle treatment removed. Happy with it.

 

[zxGrizz]

Don’t over think it. The best brakes have three or so ports that displace gas to the sides and rearward. There is not a single precision rifle shooter who advocates for a round brake with ports all around the circumference….and there are a few, like @lowlight himself who will come right out and say that the design is worthless.

Indexing a self timing brake is super simple…much easier than a crush washer or peel washer arrangement. It’s also not critical that the thing be absolutely level. There is no need for a level in the installation process. Eyeball it and you are close enough. There’s virtually no truth to the wives‘ tale about wanting the brake to be slightly canted to counteract the asymmetric recoil impulse caused by the rifling twist or whatever such nonsense you read on the inter webs.

Also, wear hearing protection. Always. Hearing damage is cumulative and permanent and tinnitus is real and real annoying.

Sounds good I feel alot better about installing a brake hearing what y'all have said and some more reading up on it last night.
Ya I suddenly started having tinnitus this year it's extremely annoying.
Thank you for the help.