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Gunsmithing Threaded my bolt

sortafast

sortafast

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 8, 2011
94
0
Oregon
#1
I hate rem700 bolt knobs from the factory. So I made a jig for the CNC. With a little trial and error got it working as it should. Not bad for the first try. I think I am going to make a jig to do the handles for my savages next as I am too cheap to buy a tac handle. The knob I designed up and did quickly on the manual lathe. I think It came out alright. Plenty of room for my big hands to get to the trigger and infinitely better than that factory button thing.

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#3
Very nice. Perhaps a post in the D.I.Y. section too!

I just grossly cut/ground mine down with an angle grinder, then finished grinding with a dremel and threaded with a die.

Worked good 'nuff for me for what I have. Not knocking your method AT ALL!

I would've used a lathe if I had one & knew how to use it though! :)

~Will
 
#4
William_LXIX said:
Very nice. Perhaps a post in the D.I.Y. section too!

I just grossly cut/ground mine down with an angle grinder, then finished grinding with a dremel and threaded with a die.

Worked good 'nuff for me for what I have. Not knocking your method AT ALL!

I would've used a lathe if I had one & knew how to use it though! :)

~Will
Click to expand...
Yeah this is one of the benefits of having a CNC mill. Just program it set the zero and press a button. Its sweet. After running manual mill for ever a CNC is so nice. Up next is going to be a 20moa rail for the rem and the savage short action I got. Fun stuff.
 
#6
William_LXIX said:
Thread Hijack: What is starting ballpark for such a machine that you describe? Or is it a business machine?

Is there such a thing as a "starter CNC" that is worth a hoot?

Curious.

~Will
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Well I got my machine for a song. I got it for a business I have as well as to eventually make some gun stuff with. It was huge gamble as i barely had the money for it and I couldn't view it under power. But really there is no such thing as a "starter" cnc mill IMO. Its a gamble on some of the older, cheaper mills. The manual mill I had was a gamble that, if it wasn't for the price (and the fact that I could only see pics of it as it was like a 12hr drive away) I probably would not have gotten it. I got really really lucky with my mill. It was in mint condition and has run great for me. Price wise, Expect to pay $5-10k for an alright machine. You can get a CNC knee mill in that range or sometimes less. If you are in UT there isn't a ton of options for used so you would probably have to go to Kalifornistan, NV, AZ or the like to find a decent used machine. And even once you get one you got to figure out how to load, transport and unload it. Its not hard but it costs money. I was able to mostly DIY the move of my machine and got it moved for a few hundred. If you pay a rigging service it will probably be over a grand if you find one locally. If you have to go out of area, expect to pay a lot more. You could also retro fit a bench top machine or buy one pre-done, but even then you are looking at a min of $2k for a tiny Rong-fu X2 class machine. Bigger machines will cost you more $$. Its not out of the realm of possibility but just be prepared. I had a round column Drill mill I thought of converting, and probably should have but it would have been a bit of a head ache. Plus I made some good money on that machine so it was nice. But really at the end of the day, if you are looking to jump down that rabbit hole, be prepared to drop some coin, not only on the mill, but also on tooling. Think in the thousands of dollars. Its a rabbit hole for sure, but if what I am doing can help pay off some bills and pay for some toys too, I would be very well pleased.
 
#7
Riggers aint cheap. It was $1200 bucks to go from the truck to my shop floor when the new Kitamira arrived. At about 40 feet worth of distance, it works out to a rate of $2.50 per inch.

We did it ourselves with a rented fork and some skates.

Fwiw I have a cnc that im selling. CHEAP! it needs some work but it has potential. Eagle cnc knee mill with a cat40 spindle taper.

C.
 
#8
sortafast said:
I hate rem700 bolt knobs from the factory.
Click to expand...

Most do.

For you're next go-round give some thought to extending the knob.

I found that the EGW knob on the right in this picture gave my fat fingers a little more clearance around my scope

1300-1302-1.jpg


When cutting a new knob the OAL can just be controlled with a longer or shorter ferrule. I kind of like the "Groove" myself but every hand is different.


As for handles, no "soldered handles for me". I just replace my Remington bolts with PTG one-piece bolt bodies. Tig welding and adding screws may hold the factory handle on better but there's just something about a "One Piece" Also a good opportunity to dump the "spring clip" extractor in favor of an M-16 style.
 
#9
Deadshot2 said:
Most do.

For you're next go-round give some thought to extending the knob.

I found that the EGW knob on the right in this picture gave my fat fingers a little more clearance around my scope


When cutting a new knob the OAL can just be controlled with a longer or shorter ferrule. I kind of like the "Groove" myself but every hand is different.


As for handles, no "soldered handles for me". I just replace my Remington bolts with PTG one-piece bolt bodies. Tig welding and adding screws may hold the factory handle on better but there's just something about a "One Piece" Also a good opportunity to dump the "spring clip" extractor in favor of an M-16 style.
Click to expand...
I don't know what scope i am going to go with on this rifle yet so I am unsure of the clearance. But I think the knob is plenty long (around 1.5") and is about 1" at the widest. So it should clear most scope. But I am building this for the wife so its more or less what she likes, even though I will probably end up shooting it more than her anyway.
 
#11
MosesTheTank said:
How did you fix the knob to the threads?
Click to expand...

I just tapped the knob 5/16-24 when I was turning it on the lathe and just screwed it on to the handle. Since I am not sure I like this profile right now I may change out the knob later so I haven't locked it on yet. When I do I will probably just put some Permanent thread locker on it. You can always take it off by hitting it with a propane torch. If it becomes a big issue I may just put some epoxy on it, but I like the thought of being able to remove the knob if need be.
 
#12
sortafast said:
I just tapped the knob 5/16-24 when I was turning it on the lathe and just screwed it on to the handle. Since I am not sure I like this profile right now I may change out the knob later so I haven't locked it on yet. When I do I will probably just put some Permanent thread locker on it. You can always take it off by hitting it with a propane torch. If it becomes a big issue I may just put some epoxy on it, but I like the thought of being able to remove the knob if need be.
Click to expand...


While a torch will certainly do the job, for those who have ceracoated bolts/knobs a better solution is a hot air gun. An open flame can scorch the finish you paid good money for. A hot air gun in all but the most extreme cases, won't harm the finish.

C.
 
#14
sortafast said:
Since I am not sure I like this profile right now I may change out the knob later so I haven't locked it on yet. When I do I will probably just put some Permanent thread locker on it.
Click to expand...


I just screwed on my bolt-knob with some Loctite "Blue" and it hasn't been a problem for several thousand rounds. I can take it off if I wish by just wrapping the bolt handle with a piece of rubber "plate" and grip with a vice grip. I use a piece of rubber that came out of a "Water Pipe Patch Kit". Some red rubber, a piece of sheet metal, and a couple of hose clamps. The rubber also makes great bottoms for my homemade "super feet" that I use under my front rest when I'm playing BR shooter.
 
#15
not trying to be a smart azz but I've been shooting the Rem. 700 series since 1965 & would like to know what are these big oversize bolt knobs used for ??...I have shot 1k matches in the past with a Garand but not a bolt gun although I kill/shoot at PDs up to & over 1k ...have built varmint rifles in the past using the 700 actions but would like to know about these oversize knobs ...thanks & take care
 
#16
kendak said:
not trying to be a smart azz but I've been shooting the Rem. 700 series since 1965 & would like to know what are these big oversize bolt knobs used for ??...I have shot 1k matches in the past with a Garand but not a bolt gun although I kill/shoot at PDs up to & over 1k ...have built varmint rifles in the past using the 700 actions but would like to know about these oversize knobs ...thanks & take care
Click to expand...

Some people just like them for looks, but most shooters prefer them to aid in the operation of their rifles. Having a larger knob gives your hand more purchase on the bolt, and allows you greater leverage to extract a spent cartridge. This comes in handy especially when you are at the max end of your reloading pressure or you have big gorilla hands and the little factory ball just doesn't quite cut it.

I'd really like to have mine done by Phoenix Custom Rifles , but sending my only firing mechanism for my only rifle through an under funded agency with a propencity for "losing" things, makes me extremely leery.
 
#17
kendak said:
not trying to be a smart azz but I've been shooting the Rem. 700 series since 1965 & would like to know what are these big oversize bolt knobs used for ??.
Click to expand...

Apothus said:
Some people just like them for looks, but most shooters prefer them to aid in the operation of their rifles. Having a larger knob gives your hand more purchase on the bolt, and allows you greater leverage to extract a spent cartridge.
Click to expand...

The stock bolt handle obviously will work for most. Their shape and size is kine of a "One size for all"

I have "fat hands" and often shoot with gloves. An extended handle allows for better access and operation around my large scope. When I shoot, unlike a hunter, I shoot 40-50 rounds at a stretch, slow fire and rapid fire. I have not only altered my bolt handle but replaced the whole bolt with a one-piece PTG. It's not just handles, sometimes people don't want a handle that relies merely on "solder" to hold it on. As for "hot loads", so far I've not had that happen. Have shot loads that made the primer look like it was first melted then poured in the primer pocket, leaving almost no line at the edge. Loads hot enough to make the case look like a pregnant woman's belly stretch marks. For some reason I haven't had any hot enough to make the bolt sticky. Something to look forward to I guess :) :)
 
#18
Apothus said:
Some people just like them for looks, but most shooters prefer them to aid in the operation of their rifles. Having a larger knob gives your hand more purchase on the bolt, and allows you greater leverage to extract a spent cartridge. This comes in handy especially when you are at the max end of your reloading pressure or you have big gorilla hands and the little factory ball just doesn't quite cut it.

I'd really like to have mine done by Phoenix Custom Rifles , but sending my only firing mechanism for my only rifle through an under funded agency with a propencity for "losing" things, makes me extremely leery.
Click to expand...

Same here, I like the extraction leverage they provide, and have had most of mine done by Phoenix Custom Rifles.
 
#19
I did mine for a couple reasons. First was because I have big hands and I really hate the feel of the factory knob. I have a hard time working the bolt quickly with that little factory button knob thing they put on there. The other reason I did this was mainly because I can. I have a CNC mill that I haven't had work for for a bit so why not. I designed and built the jig and ran it and am pretty happy with the results. It really makes me want to get a couple more R700's so I can thread those too.
 
#20
thanks for all the replies ...I also have big hands [wear a size 12 glove] but have no problem with factory bolt on a PD shoot where I will go through 2 or 3k rds. in 5 days ...I have broken the bolt knob off on a couple with hot wildcats also seams like the bigger knob would make the breaking eazier ...my pet load for my VSSF in .223 is pretty hot 29.5gr. of H335 behind a 50gr. BT in military brass runs about 3900fps. ...might have to try bolt knob "C" in above pic. on a .308 tactical just for the heck of it ..have a 8mm mag. necked down to .257 that gets "sticky" also it might be where to start ...as for the handles that break off I just TIG them back on & true the bolt & you're good to go with no more breakage ...BTW. do you think a knob like "C" above would clear a March 10-60x52 tactical mounted in nightforce pic. style rings ? take care
 
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#23
.308mk4 said:
That's funny. I did mine today also. No fancy cnc though. Small manual grizzly. First one. New to machining to.
Click to expand...

HA. Your jig looks a lot like mine, Dykem and all. Did you use a hollow mill to get it to the right diameter or did you just get it close then round the corners?

Muskyjerk said:
OP and 308 do you have a pic half way through the process. I am not learning as much as I could. Both look great BTW
Click to expand...

I didn't bother to take pictures as I was trying to get the program dialed in for the correct height, triple checking my zero and such since I only had one shot at it. I didn't want to have to drop some cash on a new handle or have to do the whole weld in the stud and grind the piss out of it to make it look good option. On a CNC its easier in some respects but harder than others when doing it on a manual mill. But I guess I am not sure what you are getting at here Musky. I used a CNC mill so I just interpolated a circle (a couple actually), then I ran a 45° chamfer on the top edge, then I ran a 5/16"-24 die down the stud a few times to get clean threads. My thread will won't be here for a bit since I haven't ordered it yet so running to the hardware store for a $6 die did the trick.
 
#24
No pics during. I always forget when I'm involved in something.

Annular cutter. I actually would have had it done a few weeks ago but the ID chart for the annular cutters is for the pilot not slug size. Hougen took exceptional care of me though. World class outfit.

My goal is to make it a process with just a couple steps. I forgot to wrie down my measurements . I did not make my knob either.
 
#26
.308mk4 said:
No pics during. I always forget when I'm involved in something.

Annular cutter. I actually would have had it done a few weeks ago but the ID chart for the annular cutters is for the pilot not slug size. Hougen took exceptional care of me though. World class outfit.

My goal is to make it a process with just a couple steps. I forgot to wrie down my measurements . I did not make my knob either.
Click to expand...

not that it matters, but how was the surface finish after running the annular cutter down? Did you cut the sides off the knob before running the cutter down? Its not a bad way to do it if it comes out clean. I like the hollow mill approach, but the annular cutter is a nice work around, and probably a whole lot cheaper too.
 
#27
I milled the knob down until I could actually get some good measurements. The annular cutter leaves a little to be desired on the finish but it's not horrible. The slug is a tad big but the die runs down fine. 320 grit takes care of the rest. I'm knew at this so things will be improved apon as I go

As far as the cutter being able to cut the knob away , it will chomp right threw it. I tested it on harder metals and it cuts easily.
 
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#28
well, scour the Ebay for a used, adjustable hollow mill. They are just about perfect for this sort of thing. I have found them for around $100-200 or so. They may be old but they work great. Either that or you can try to run it on a rotary table, but that it a royal pain. When I was running parts on my manual mill, I had a set up that I had to do on a RT and it was less than fun to set it up properly and dial it in. Wish I would have ponied up for a hollow mill but since I would have had to have one custom made (for $950) it just didn't pencil out. With a CNC, things are much more simplified.
 
#30
Deadshot2 said:
Yes indeed. As one of my suppliers proved several years ago, it's easy to make hundreds of parts with ease. Unfortunately he delivered several hundred that were "WONG". He learned the hard way to check the first off part to see if it was correct rather than just "pumping them out". :) :( :(
Click to expand...

yeah, I have learned that the hard way a few times since I went cnc. Now I go slooooooow on my first part. So far I have done pretty good.
 
#32
Goatman007 said:
As I try to keep telling the young uns, "Slow down!!! You can't screw up fast enough!!"
Click to expand...

yep. Especially no with new machines that run at 1000ipm rapids. By the time you respond with an E-stop the tool holder could very well be buried into the table. Even at 250-300ipm that my machine rapids at I have still blown up a few tools and run a $300 drill chuck (that doesn't belong to me) into the vise a couple times. I love manual machines as they are a bit harder to screw stuff up really badly on, but there is something really satisfying about pressing a button and watching the machine do in 2min and 2 holdings that would have taken me 30-45min and 4 different ops on a manual.
 
#33
Round 2

Got some good measurements. Need to adjust one a few thousandths. Find two edges , dial in two measurements. Chomp the knob off. Mill down to right hight. Thread.
 

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#36
308mk4,

Was this a dry operation or did you keep it irrigated while cutting?

I'm a carpenter/wood worker and have a nice drill press that should chuck that annular cutter nicely. I've played around a lot with routers and drill presses for unusual uses and curious if it's something I could pull off so long as the bolt handle is indexed correctly and seated firmly.

Very nice work and thank you for the photos!
 
#37
I don't know how effective it would be on a drill press. On a mill it's easy to find the edge's and dial it in once you get the correct measurements. Also I still mill the length of the threads. The knobs I have , have varying thread depths so I thread the whole shank , screw the knob down and then measure how much more needs to come off. The time went into the jig that holds the bolt. I'm actually somewhat surprised at how well it works.
 
#38
Queequeg said:
308mk4,

Was this a dry operation or did you keep it irrigated while cutting?

I'm a carpenter/wood worker and have a nice drill press that should chuck that annular cutter nicely. I've played around a lot with routers and drill presses for unusual uses and curious if it's something I could pull off so long as the bolt handle is indexed correctly and seated firmly.

Very nice work and thank you for the photos!
Click to expand...

I would not try this on a drill press. Not nearly rigid enough IMO, and it would be very difficult to dial in exactly where you need to be. On a mill its a lot easier like 308mk4 said. Also building the jig is a bit of a pain with proper tools and a mill can't imagine trying to mill something like that on a drill press. Especially with the weaker bearings and castings and such.
 
#39
Can be done with a drill press, as far as the quality of bearings and casting well that would depend on the type of drill press he owns. Don't assume it's a cheap little flimsy thing. Also the cutting action is a straight up and down action not a side to side action, that is what a drill press is designed to do. The hardest part is centering it, but there are ways to do that, such as clamping a shaft in the jig and bring the cutter down over the shaft to locate it and clamping the fixture. Now replace the shaft with the bolt and cut it. As for milling the thread to length, you can chuck a slot drill in the drill press or just cut to length with a grinder and chase the threads. This is about making do with the equipment you have not the best way to do the job.
 
#41
nzgrip said:
This is about making do with the equipment you have not the best way to do the job.
Click to expand...


I've seen some remarkably good looking jobs done with just a grinder to knock off the majority of he extra metal then handworking the end of the bolt with a flat file. One job I saw, the owner just drilled out the threads of a nut and used it as a gauge. First some Dye Chem and then start the "bushing" File and repeat. Then threaded using a die he bought along with the handle. Some loctite and install the handle. Nice and tight, looked great, and nobody noticed the few threads that were a little "flat" because he removed a touch too much in some places.

Sometimes we all forget that Rifles were once all made by hand without mills and lathes. Just hand tools, craftsmanship, and patience. The most used tools in my shop are my pattern files, grinder, and dremel.
 
#42
Apothus said:
I'd really like to have mine done by Phoenix Custom Rifles , but sending my only firing mechanism for my only rifle through an under funded agency with a propencity for "losing" things, makes me extremely leery.
Click to expand...

I shipped my Priority Mail to Short Action Customs.

I insured it for enough to buy and fit a PTG bolt if they lost mine. :)
 
#43
My drill press is a Delta 11-990, a heavy bench top model that is a good compromise for what I need and the space I have to do it in!

I'm a carpenter and mostly work in the Door and hardware niche but I came up doing all manner of woodworking including millwork, cabinets, high end finish work as well as framing, and form carpentry.

I have been able to pull off a lot of machining operations using routers, drill press and saws that would typically require some serious head scratching.

Working metal is obviously a different set of skills altogether but my thinking is that this bolt knob operation is a couple magnitudes of order less complicated than trying to head space a barrel with chisel! :D
 
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