Gunsmithing Threading set up

wnroscoe

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 12, 2006
3,907
56
NW Louisiana
I thought I'd share my threading set up for some of the new guys just starting out or anyone else that may be interested.

First, I take numerous measurements to determine the tennon length, diameter and TPI. I insert the blank into the lathe and extend the breech just enough to work on. I use a .001" indicator first to dial in the OD of the blank. Here it is with the OD dialed in and prior to the range rod being inserted.

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I then use a PTG Range Rod with removable pilots and twin Brown & Sharp .0001" Best Test Indicators to get the blank to .0002" or better. This particular barrel needed a .2560" bushing instead of the typical .2558" used on .264 barrels.

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After being dialed in to .00005" on front indicator and .0001" on rear..........close enough for the girls I run with
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Now, I turn down the tennon to the desired diameter and face it off the desired length as well.


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Next, I slip the recoil lug onto the tennon. This allows me to do several things prior to threading. I also take this time to indicate in my threading tool holder in and set up center to the work piece.

Things I check at this point,

1. Recoil Lug slip fit.

2. Recoil Lug tight fit against the barrel shoulder. I use a magnifying glass to check my shoulder fit with a bright light shinning down onto a piece of white paper in the back ground.

3. Threading tool center

4. Indicate the threading tool in

5. Set my stopping point for my threads. The stopping point for the threads is first determined by lining up the threading tool cutting tip to a point under the recoil lug. I then place a stop line on my bad ways next to the wiper. I watch the blue line during threading and get out of the cut once the wiper hits that point. New blue line for each barrel / threading job. (Thanks Trilogymac)

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Thread away, 1.0625" x 16 TPI and the final fit.

Bolt nose recess and chambering followed, I'll save that for another day.

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Re: Threading set up

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Papagrizzly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice explanation!

Thanks for taking the time. </div></div>

Machine look familiar?
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Re: Threading set up

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">5. Set my stopping point for my threads. The stopping point for the threads is first determined by lining up the threading tool cutting tip to a point under the recoil lug.<span style="color: #FF0000"> I then place a stop line on my bad ways next to the wiper. I watch the blue line during threading and get out of the cut once the wiper hits that point.</span> New blue line for each barrel / threading job. (Thanks Trilogymac) </div></div>

this such a simple tip but an excellent one. when you told me about this a while back it saved me a ton of stress trying to watch dial indicators to judge when to disengage the half nut. i got the tip from you but it looks like i should thank trilogymac too.
 
Re: Threading set up

Good info and nice pics. Im confused on how to get measurements for the chambering process and to figure in clearances for the bolt etc. How about a step back and tutorial w pics on that. At any rate nice work.
 
Re: Threading set up

Since I am always looking for better tools, why this style of threading tool versus another? I am on my second type of threading tool, but see at least one obvious advantage to the one you are using.

I was looking at the full profile 16 thread insert for this style of tool holder.
 
Re: Threading set up

Thanks for the kind words guys. The "Groove" that ya'll are asking about is just a simple thread relief for lack of better terms. During one of the last threading pass's I simply advance the threading tool into the work piece manually and machine off two or so threads. I then finish with tool pressure or spring passes to the final fit. If the fit is still too tight I only advance the compound in .001" at a time until I get what I want but, tool pressure passes are always in the routine.

 
Re: Threading set up

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JimT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since I am always looking for better tools, why this style of threading tool versus another? I am on my second type of threading tool, but see at least one obvious advantage to the one you are using.

I was looking at the full profile 16 thread insert for this style of tool holder. </div></div>

Jim,

I really like the Carmex stuff and prefere the lay down partial profile inserts over the stand up / on edge stuff. Partial and full profile threading inserts both work in this holder. I also have the full profile inserts and they work great but, I just prefere these. One of the best changes I ever made was to switch over to indexible tooling.
 
Re: Threading set up

Thank for the post, D.Miller pick up some steel stock for us to practice threading for a Rem action. Were going to face it then practice measuring for our tenon length and go from there. We also got some new bits, thank you for your suggestions wnroscoe.
 
Re: Threading set up

In your 7th picture, with the indicator against the tool bit, are you just running your crossfeed to indicate the tool itself perpendicular to the ways? I've never seen anyone do that, but makes sense especially with indexable tooling, which I'd assume to be about perfect. After indexing in the tool, do you have to still use the centering guage or is indexing it in a way to fine tune the angle?

Also, at what point in this process would you clock the barrel/action so that the muzzle run out is top dead center, if you are planning to have it that way?

Thanks for passing on the knowledge, I've learned a lot from reading your threads and from others on here that freely pass on their earned knowledge, thanks.
 
Re: Threading set up

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: customshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">why not indicate off the muzzle and breech?</div></div>

When you cut the barrel threads, you want them concentric and parallel with the bore in front of the chamber, not the breech or the muzzle.
 
Re: Threading set up

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bryan27</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In your 7th picture, with the indicator against the tool bit, are you just running your crossfeed to indicate the tool itself perpendicular to the ways? <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">Correct</span></span>

I've never seen anyone do that, but makes sense especially with indexable tooling, which I'd assume to be about perfect. After indexing in the tool, do you have to still use the centering guage or is indexing it in a way to fine tune the angle? <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">I center the tool prior to indicating the holder in</span></span>

Also, at what point in this process would you clock the barrel/action so that the muzzle run out is top dead center, if you are planning to have it that way? That would be done after threading but prior to chambering. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">Barrels from Krieger and Bartlein routinely run almost dead nuts at the muzzle once the breech is dialed in. Rarely do I have to "Clock" a muzzle when using these barrels. "Clocking" would be performed though after threading and prior to chambering if needed</span> </span>

Thanks for passing on the knowledge, I've learned a lot from reading your threads and from others on here that freely pass on their earned knowledge, thanks. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">Thanks and my pleasure.</span> </span> </div></div>
 
Re: Threading set up

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: customshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">why not indicate off the muzzle and breech? </div></div>

IMHO, the only way to address the curvature of the bore is to double indicate one end of the barrel at a time. When working on and indicating the breech, the muzzle does as it may.
 
Re: Threading set up

I liked your post Wnroscoe and i can see a lot of others do to i am glad your building my 300 RUM CAN'T WAIT to get the barrel and stock in to get her going.

I know get a case of beer and relax RIGHT LOL!LOL
 
Re: Threading set up

Do you set your compound slide at 30 degrees and feed the thread depth with it, so that you're only cutting with one edge of the threading tool?
 
Re: Threading set up

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kombayotch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you set your compound slide at 30 degrees and feed the thread depth with it, so that you're only cutting with one edge of the threading tool? </div></div>

Yes
 
Re: Threading set up

Thought so from the pictures. It's a small detail that people starting out usually aren't aware of if they have no machining background. It also might not be intuitive to some that you're finishing the thread by backing out the tool vs. disengaging the half nut when the blue line is reached.
 
Re: Threading set up

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kombayotch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you set your compound slide at 30 degrees and feed the thread depth with it, so that you're only cutting with one edge of the threading tool? </div></div>

Yes </div></div>

Why this vs 29.5 degrees? Is there something with the way the tool is shaped to prevent galling and chatter on the trailing edge?
 
Re: Threading set up

When I first set up my machine I ran straight up at 29.5 degrees on the dial and the threads were fine. One day, I decided to check my compound angle with a fishtail and found my scale was off by 1/2 of a degree. It was suggested at that point that I trig my compound in to get the final definitive answer. Again, my scale was 1/2 of a degree off. Now, when I thread, the scale is set to 29 degrees but I know from the trig equation that .500" of compound travel is .2830" of travel on the indicator and that is equal to 29.5 degrees.

The other change I made was to indicate my tool holder in. Now, I know I’m dead nuts on with the tool and the tool angle relationship to the work piece. Maybe it’s just mental but, I feel my thread fit is better and the quality of my work is as good as I can make it.

Does this mean that your scale could be off?
Yes, it very well could be.

Does this mean that your thread fit will be wrong and not work?
Absolutely not.

The guys that taught me to run a lathe were tool and die makers by trade, over 50 years experience between them. There's another guy that’s shared a ton of info with me as well, Trilogymac here on the hide. He's one hell of machinist and actually runs/owns Trilogy Machine in south Texas.

The purpose of threads like this one is for me to pay it forward. Numerous others have shared their knowledge with me and I'm doing the same with you (Hide Members) it keeps our sport alive and the knowledge moving forward.
 
Re: Threading set up

That is basically how I did it in the Robert Gradous Class this week.

RGradousthreads.jpg


I have a relief cut under the recoil lug, but otherwise very similar

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Same results,
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For my first time touching a Lathe it was awesome to set up, get the barrel in the Lathe with no stress, so the whole experience was great. We did the same thing, set up the dial indictors very similarly, I think I was bit further out, but same difference. Still great results.

RGradouschambering.jpg


Robert made it easy to understand for me, from selecting the right tool to understanding the set up, right down to threading and chambering the barrel. if anything went wrong it would have been on me. LOL Lucky he teaches in a way I can understand.
 
Re: Threading set up

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Keith at PCR</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
RGradouschambering.jpg

</div></div>


Well look at that!

Nice job


So are you going to be building all your own rifles now?</div></div>

No, it was a one time deal, Robert Gradous offers a class, and I did build my own rifle, at the end of this, we had a finished product... through load development and shooting out to 600 yards.

I have a ton of video footage to go through but I will be putting up a complete review. It was a great couple of days.

I did it for the experience, and to get a lesson or more under Robert Gradous, it wasn't for me to start doing this for anyone else.

RGradouschamber.jpg


But I would highly recommend his Gunsmithing Class to anyone,layman or otherwise.
 
Re: Threading set up

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Lucky he teaches in a way I can understand. </div></div>

He uses crayons and grunting?
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I kid, good looking work there. I actually want to thank everyone who posts all these informative threads,wnroscoe, STR, eddief, C. Dixon, and a good number of others. I'm waiting for the fall semester to start, I've decided to change career paths and am going back to school for machining, so all these threads are a great primer for me and to see what can be done with the machines.

wnroscoe: is there any chance of doing a similar style thread showing how to contour a barrel?
 
Re: Threading set up

Nice job Frank. I've spoken to Robert numerous times, he's sharp for sure. The learning curve really isn’t that steep if you have someone showing you the way as you go. I've said it a 1000 times, this really is something all shooters must experience at least once in their life. Somehow, it changes you.