Suppressors ThunderBeast, Shark and Sandstorm shoot out

#51
Re: ThunderBeast, Shark and Sandstorm shoot out

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYshooter338$</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I still find it strange that your are getting such a dramatic first round shift with the Sandstorm. I have one on my GAP built 6.5 CM and its a tack driver. I never have had that shift like you are getting... </div></div>

Two rifles now with it, I must just have bad luck ?

Well see as I shoot it more.
 
#54
Re: ThunderBeast, Shark and Sandstorm shoot out

Maybe send it in to Gemtech? If tinypic would work I can show you what my 2 groups that I shot with 2 different rifles looked like. No first round flyer...
 
#55
Re: ThunderBeast, Shark and Sandstorm shoot out

I am going to shoot it a bit more and see what happens if it "settles" in... a fair amount of people are saying it doesn't happen with theirs, but its clearly happening with mine.

So we'll see if it continues or settles out, if it doesn't I will contact them. Being it just cleared last month, going back is a bit of pain, but not out of the question.
 
#57
Re: ThunderBeast, Shark and Sandstorm shoot out

Nice test but I don't think sound meters really tell
The full story just as hearing one over a microphone

Frank has a gen one can... New cans have one piece baffles and are modular for multiple thread on attachments I am almost finished with a quick turn threaded ratchet qd system

I have sold 7 cans this week and can't find the time to finish these other projects

By the way you heard it here first

I should have my 700 clone type action prototype out in about 2 months

Pics to follow
 
#59
Re: ThunderBeast, Shark and Sandstorm shoot out

David,

Can the internals be swapped ?

My can is a very low serial number that is for sure... I think I may have mentioned that, but all in all they were all within 1 to 1.5db of each other which I think is really of no consequence because this is a precision rifle using full loads, so the idea is to be accurate and have some distance on the target. I highly doubt at 100 yards away some, even with a meter can discern 1db.

The point is hitting what you aim at, and the Shark is very good.
 
#60
Re: ThunderBeast, Shark and Sandstorm shoot out

I commend what was done here. A refreshing change of pace in suppressor comparison spearheaded by our greatest member. I love it when people actually go outside and test stuff!!

But if you're going to test something like this, there needs to be multiple strings of fire and multiple suppressors of like make and manufacturer.

My testing of 3 different Sandstorms on 6.8spc platforms, fails to support these findings. Using a representative sample of three different cans obtained from three separate channels, seemed like the minimum representative sample group I could use. The results from each of the three Sandstorms was very much inline. Meaning the results were similar if not identical throughout my testing.

I have not tested a Shark or a Thunderbeast suppressor as of yet, although I did ask Raydog to borrow one for such purposes a while back. Still would like to....
 
#61
Re: ThunderBeast, Shark and Sandstorm shoot out

Again, to say, I honestly have to shoot the Gemtech more as it is a really nice can, the results are what they are, and make no mistake, the can is mine, bought and paid for, so for better or worse I own it... as with the others.

The shift is appears to be changing with each shooting and I will be shooting it more, so if it continues it will have to go back. I know many have offered to put me in contact with Kel, but right now I am not all that worried about it. As you can see I have more than enough to tide me over until I can get it back to them if that is what is required.
 
#62
Re: ThunderBeast, Shark and Sandstorm shoot out

Any way you could test all three on a shorter barrel? Like a Gladius perhaps?

I thought the really interesting things I've seen with TI cans have happened on the short barrels. Especially since shorter barrels are harder to suppress efficiently.

 
#63
Re: ThunderBeast, Shark and Sandstorm shoot out

The Gladius has a SF Muzzle brake on it and it was tested with a 24" and originally I had used it on a 20" rifle but that stick is back to GAP for some work. So here my shortest single point is about 22" to 24". Most of my shorter sticks are busy, or the ones I have here aren't threaded as they are older.

The thing is, really, its fair for all as each of them are similar in construction and weight, and clearly the Shark and TBAC had no issue. The Gemtech had less of an issue with the 26" barrel then it did with the 24" one.

I think next I am going to try it on my POF 16" , see what happens.

There was another test...
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#64
Re: ThunderBeast, Shark and Sandstorm shoot out

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 737SHARK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice test but I don't think sound meters really tell
The full story just as hearing one over a microphone

Frank has a gen one can... New cans have one piece baffles and are modular for multiple thread on attachments I am almost finished with a quick turn threaded ratchet qd system

I have sold 7 cans this week and can't find the time to finish these other projects

By the way you heard it here first

I should have my 700 clone type action prototype out in about 2 months

Pics to follow </div></div>

Will your QD system be available for any suppressor? I have the Tigershark on a Badger action/RWS build. Would love a QD attachment on that.
 
#66
Re: ThunderBeast, Shark and Sandstorm shoot out

One other question for competition is tube thickness

Sharks are .0625 anything less than this is dangerous especially if you weld them..heat embrittlement

Tigersharks are .095

 
#67
Re: ThunderBeast, Shark and Sandstorm shoot out

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Again, to say, I honestly have to shoot the Gemtech more as it is a really nice can, the results are what they are, and make no mistake, the can is mine, bought and paid for, so for better or worse I own it... as with the others.

The shift is appears to be changing with each shooting and I will be shooting it more, so if it continues it will have to go back. I know many have offered to put me in contact with Kel, but right now I am not all that worried about it. As you can see I have more than enough to tide me over until I can get it back to them if that is what is required. </div></div>

Regarding the impact shift, a buddy and I were out today shooting and as a test I tried removing the can then reinstalling the can and firing. Accuracy was good all day with the can on from 100-400yds. Went back to 100yds, took the can off, put it back on, fired a shot. 2" left of the dot I was shooting at. 2nd shot, "center punched". Can off/can on, 1-ish inches left, second shot, "center punched" in the same hole. Can off and on again, shots 5, 6, and 7 were left about 1". Maybe it was me for the last three shots? I dunno..

-X
 
#68
Re: ThunderBeast, Shark and Sandstorm shoot out

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Very interesting and useful, much appreciated.

Zak is correct, dB readings are limited at best to peak pressures. There is no duration metering (.308 and 300 win mag = SAME peak pressure, the difference in preceived loudness is duration) and there is no frequency readings as well. He is also correct, videos are fun to watch, useful for accuracy, useless for anything sound related. Still 2.5 dBs difference from the Sandstorm to the ThunderBeast is huge.

I would make one more important observation all cans must be current production units. All too often, provided cans have zero correlation to the actual production cans being sold. Also, as Al Paulson once said, why we don't measure preceived sound at target? That gives you some idea of how deeply we have thought this all through. We aren't suppressing to save the shooters hearing only, they can use plugs and muffs.

Still, enjoyable and an important departure from the typical web based suppressor review crap.

</div></div>

From everything I'd read and metered about 3 db is a noticible difference.

IMHO 6 or greater db reduction is Huge.

The highest Db peak is usually under 20ms so it's capatured, any sound after that is < than the peak.

@ 2db separates the quietest can of the day from the loudest in terms of NSR.....They are all pretty much equal IMHO.

That said, another thing to consider is how can perform at the shooter's left ear, or right ear.

The db reduction from the 1M to the ear location can be rather significant.

The db reduction numbers should give a good idea of performance, but they aren't comparable to other published info, not 1.6M above the ground, not in an open field, etc...

 
#70
Re: ThunderBeast, Shark and Sandstorm shoot out

Just had my barrel threaded by 737SHARK for one of his ti cans. Ask him to make me an extra rear cap for the can threaded to 1/2x28 so that it can be used for an AR as well. Great guy to do business with.
Here is the 1/2x28 end cap
DSC00205.jpg

Thanks again David
 
#72
Re: ThunderBeast, Shark and Sandstorm shoot out

I have two of Davids cans. A Shark, and a Hammer head. I could not be happier with the accuracy or repeatability with ether of my cans!

And Yes David is one of the nicest guys you will EVER deal with!!!!!
 
#73
Re: ThunderBeast, Shark and Sandstorm shoot out

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also, as Al Paulson once said, why we don't measure preceived sound at target? That gives you some idea of how deeply we have thought this all through. We aren't suppressing to save the shooters hearing only, they can use plugs and muffs.

Still, enjoyable and an important departure from the typical web based suppressor review crap.

spattern.gif
</div></div>

Pretty easy answer to that, in front of the shooter a .308 Win bullet will have c. 150 dB SPL at 1m from the bullet flightline.

Suppressors are not very effective in the front sector of the shooter, sound wise. Of course there the reduced flash, dust etc. signatures.

However if we are considering the environmental effect of the noise, the overall noise around the shooter is greatly reduced, there have been several tests and studies on this here in Finland.

Take Care!

Tuukka Jokinen
Ase Utra sound suppressors
 
#74
Re: ThunderBeast, Shark and Sandstorm shoot out

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bugg25</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just had my barrel threaded by 737SHARK for one of his ti cans. Ask him to make me an extra rear cap for the can threaded to 1/2x28 so that it can be used for an AR as well. Great guy to do business with.
Here is the 1/2x28 end cap
DSC00205.jpg

Thanks again David </div></div>

Can you show more pictures of the cap he made you?
 
#81
Re: ThunderBeast, Shark and Sandstorm shoot out

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 9mmkungfu</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How does the Cyclone compare to the other 3? </div></div>

The Cyclone is the "gold standard" to which all other 308 cans are compaired.

I was at a match today where 2 guys were shooting side by side all day. Both shooting 24" 308's. One had a tigrshark, the other had a SAS Arbitor. If you closed your eyes, the was NO DIFFERENCE. Tone and Volume were identical.

Both are WM rated. Make sure you listen to a can before you buy.
 
#82
Re: ThunderBeast, Shark and Sandstorm shoot out

Sorry for the delay.... redeployment time, then just havent spent too much time on computer. I should have been more precise with my wording of "rear cap", not "end cap". The design of the actual end cap allows for an adapter to be screwed into it that mates up the the actual end cap perfectly. The design prevents the can from becoming "un-concentric" (if that is a word), and then the adapter appears to be part of the can. What you see in the photo actually screw into the endcap for a perfect fit!!

Great product by the way!!
 
#83
Re: ThunderBeast, Shark and Sandstorm shoot out

Can anyone offer any insight as to how well these hold up under 300WM Fire? I'd like to know if heat/mirage, would make it impractical as a match set-up..... or, if one or the other might be a better fit for the magnum.

Thanks much.
 
#85
Re: ThunderBeast, Shark and Sandstorm shoot out

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tribe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can anyone offer any insight as to how well these hold up under 300WM Fire? I'd like to know if heat/mirage, would make it impractical as a match set-up..... or, if one or the other might be a better fit for the magnum.

Thanks much. </div></div>

When I get the chance I'll take the .300WM out with my TBAC. I've only shot it on the Sako so far. It might be a while since I am having the action rebarreled.
 
#86
Re: ThunderBeast, Shark and Sandstorm shoot out

Thanks Zak.... I actually just had a local shop order a 30P-1 this last week (WA is finally opening the gates to suppressorville!)... but I'm new to the scene.

I had figured the TAB cover as a given... however, with what I've been reading about how rapidly these things cook, it got me thinking that my plan might be flawed... and the 300 may be too much, to run a 20+ round stage, with any hopes of actually seeing the target by the end...

Please confirm that I can shut-up and shoot....
 
#87
Re: ThunderBeast, Shark and Sandstorm shoot out

I've shot my AI .338 (suppressed) until there was too much mirage coming off the barrel, using a TAB cover on the can. I don't remember what the firing schedule was, but I ended up with a pretty good pile of brass to the right of the rifle. As the cover retains the heat in the case (and does effectively block its mirage), you can still get mirage off the barrel which is heating up faster with the can on the end.

Somewhere in between, when you pull the TAB cover back, you'll see what looks like "wetness" on the surface of the can. This is some of the external cordura on the TAB cover melting a little bit and vaporizing through the inner thermal material onto the can. As the can cools, it must evaporate because it doesn't leave residue on the can.

I don't think you'll have a problem with 20 rounds if it's a firing schedule similar to NRA-HP.

If you need to pound 20 rounds as fast as you can pull the trigger, a bolt-action .300WM is probably the wrong tool for the job (the can will be fine though). Let me relate a story. 5-6 years ago a bunch of us drove down to TX for a sniper match that was advertised to have field stages, long-range, etc. So guys brought their .300's, 7's, and I brought my .308 (was all I had at the time). The match ended up having probably about 75% of its rounds shot at 100-200 yards at paper. The magnums were a waste. The match could have been won with an accurate AR-15 shooting 69's or 77's.
 
#88
Re: ThunderBeast, Shark and Sandstorm shoot out

<span style="text-decoration: underline">ALL</span> field shooting... and yes, when we get one of those "pounder" stages... it is NOT the ideal tool... hammered through a stage last year (if I recall correctly) of about 36 rounds in around 3 minutes or thereabouts, at 100 yards!?!? Everything else was around 300 to 1k or so ....but we gotta' dance with the one we brung.
whistle.gif


As per usual... best way to see, is to take a look.... Thanks again for the input... It's going to be a LOOOONG wait.
 
#90
Re: ThunderBeast, Shark and Sandstorm shoot out

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Again, to say, I honestly have to shoot the Gemtech more as it is a really nice can, the results are what they are, and make no mistake, the can is mine, bought and paid for, so for better or worse I own it... as with the others.

The shift is appears to be changing with each shooting and I will be shooting it more, so if it continues it will have to go back. I know many have offered to put me in contact with Kel, but right now I am not all that worried about it. As you can see I have more than enough to tide me over until I can get it back to them if that is what is required. </div></div>

How is your shift problem now, with the Sandstorm?

I don't store mine on the rifle. So a week ago, after I warmed up with 20+ shots I took the can off for 6 shots then re-installed the can.
My first shot seems to be 3" or so to 2 o'oclock, second round 1" to 3 o'clock, then the next 8 rounds into a hole that can be covered by a quarter.

Yesterday I went back and had similar results.

I don't know what is going on..........
 
#91
Re: ThunderBeast, Shark and Sandstorm shoot out

Well I think I will be happy with purchase as I just picked six cans from David. The 30-P is 300 WM rated and the shark is not.(If it is the Shark and not the Tiger Shark) so that stacks up really well.
After I get all mine approved, I am interested in seeing the difference between the Shark, Tiger Shark, and Jaws.
Good review and even though it is an older thread I would like to say thanks for taking the time to put this all together.
I am a noob to the NFA items and looking forward to getting them to the range.( most likely in Dec. or Jan.)
David is great to deal with and did not get tired of my stupid questions.
The review was good and the products seems so as well. Thanks again.
 
#93
Re: ThunderBeast, Shark and Sandstorm shoot out

Sorry I tried to get it spaced properly, and worded properly. I see I did not do either. I bought sharks from David.

Most of them were the Tiger Shark, But I did get a Shark, and a Jaws as well.

He also got me a .22 suppressor.

The review was very informative and one of the reasons I bought from David was pointed out by Lowlight, David's cans let you upgrade and replace internals if a better design is created.

David always finds time to answer any question no matter how stupid, or how many you have.

I am sure both are great but it is the little things that will keep me a Shark customer. Great product as shown here(that I believe is a more advance design), friendly and top not service, also shown here.

This of course is subjective and as I said before I am sure both are good, I just find the options on the Sharks to be more.( One of those I left out was the the Thread adapters that can be changed with ease.
 
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