Picked up a new Remington 700 AAC-SD and loaded some rounds up to do some testing with. Come to find out they are hard as hell to chamber so I figured new rifle, maybe some debris in the chamber etc.. wiped it out, and cycled 20-30 rounds through the chamber without firing and the bolt was still damn hard to close. Went home and loaded some rounds up with rcbs dies, and viola. chambers smooth as a babies bottom. So I obviously have some faulty dies, and found the source of my problem. Assuming it was a headspace issue with the Hornady FL resizing die. Could I have messed up my chamber from cycling 20-30 rounds that were so tight?
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Tight Bolt Close bad for chamber?
- Thread starter Precisions
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What were the measurements at the shoulder datum line for the brass that chambered and those that did not chamber.
Another thing to consider is that your new rifle simply has a tighter chamber than any of your previous rifles, have you used the Hornady die to produce sucessful ammo for other rifles? Likewise the RCBS die may be slightly smaller on the inside but both could still be within SAAMI spec and that could be why the ammo produced with the Hornady dies were tight in the chamber and the ammo made with the RCBS die was as you said smooth as butter.
I don't know just some random thoughts i had.
Another thing to consider is that your new rifle simply has a tighter chamber than any of your previous rifles, have you used the Hornady die to produce sucessful ammo for other rifles? Likewise the RCBS die may be slightly smaller on the inside but both could still be within SAAMI spec and that could be why the ammo produced with the Hornady dies were tight in the chamber and the ammo made with the RCBS die was as you said smooth as butter.
I don't know just some random thoughts i had.
Dont have a headspace gauge or 40 s&w case to check headspace, but i did take a fired 9mm case that does fit over the neck and onto the shoulder a little higher than the datum line. the measurement from the rcbs die was 1.695, and the measurement from the Hornady die was 1.700. No smearing on the bolt lugs or anything, but i did see a lot of brass buildup on the bolt face just from cycling those rounds earlier
Ref the dies, I can't help wondering if you set up both sets by "manufacturer instructions" to touch the shell holder plus some supposed magic 1/8 th, 1/4, 1/2 turn; if so, that's probably your "problem". Always size for results, not to match a formula. Dies, shell holders, presses and the cases themselves vary too much for any such simplistic instructions to be much help.
Jamming a bolt closed because the shoulder length is too long won't hurt anything but accuracy.... IF you keep the bolt lugs well greased.
Jamming a bolt closed because the shoulder length is too long won't hurt anything but accuracy.... IF you keep the bolt lugs well greased.
Yes did both dies to instructions, but 1/8 1/4 and 1/2 turns will only increase headspace length. I was thinking the problem of tight bolt close was from excessive headspace. I dunno. The rcbs dies are working fine, and im going to give Hornady a call and see what they say about warranty if the dies are faulty.
I was gonna say, galled lugs usually come from lack of grease. Yep you should grease them a little. If you run em dry they will gall.
Man I have been having the same problem. I have small base dies for my ar and my rem 700 in 223. I also have small base dies for my savage 10fp in 308. I have been having trouble loading case for both bolt rifles and it hit me like a ton of bricks. That I need full length sizing dies and not just neck sizer sb dies. What do you guys think of the hornady dies?
"Yes did both dies to instructions, but 1/8 1/4 and 1/2 turns will only increase headspace length. I was thinking the problem of tight bolt close was from excessive headspace. I dunno."
I do. Continuing to use the bolt to set your shoulders back a final 2-3 thou is hard on the lugs and bad for accuracy, your case shoulder lengths need to be made shorter in the press. Set the die down enough to push the shoulders back sufficently for the bolt to close properly; that's the whole point of it. We do that by turning the sizer down slightly until they fit the headspace, and I'd bet that's all you need to do to "fix" your "bad" die. And I'd bet another 1/8 turn will be sufficent.
Headspace is the rifle, we can't change that and headspace, as such, hardly matters to a reloader who knows what he's doing. Chambers, dies, shellholders, presses and even cases vary a bit, all the die instructions can do is get us in the ball park, it's up to us to make it right. Custom making our ammo for our own rig is a large part of what reloading is all about. We MUST adjust our dies to make cases that fit, not blindly follow instructions and say we did "right" if the results are wrong!
I do. Continuing to use the bolt to set your shoulders back a final 2-3 thou is hard on the lugs and bad for accuracy, your case shoulder lengths need to be made shorter in the press. Set the die down enough to push the shoulders back sufficently for the bolt to close properly; that's the whole point of it. We do that by turning the sizer down slightly until they fit the headspace, and I'd bet that's all you need to do to "fix" your "bad" die. And I'd bet another 1/8 turn will be sufficent.
Headspace is the rifle, we can't change that and headspace, as such, hardly matters to a reloader who knows what he's doing. Chambers, dies, shellholders, presses and even cases vary a bit, all the die instructions can do is get us in the ball park, it's up to us to make it right. Custom making our ammo for our own rig is a large part of what reloading is all about. We MUST adjust our dies to make cases that fit, not blindly follow instructions and say we did "right" if the results are wrong!
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"That I need full length sizing dies and not just neck sizer sb dies. What do you guys think of the hornady dies? "
"Small Base" and "neck die" is a contradiction of terms; by definition a neck die does nothing to the base.
All die brands have their fans. On average, Hornady's dies are as good as any other average conventional dies. What anyone likes or dislikes about any brand's small differences in features is entirely a personal taste thing. Advertizing hype and colored Kool-Aide drinking aside, there're no average differences in the quality of ammo that can be produced with any of them.
"Small Base" and "neck die" is a contradiction of terms; by definition a neck die does nothing to the base.
All die brands have their fans. On average, Hornady's dies are as good as any other average conventional dies. What anyone likes or dislikes about any brand's small differences in features is entirely a personal taste thing. Advertizing hype and colored Kool-Aide drinking aside, there're no average differences in the quality of ammo that can be produced with any of them.
Were not on the same page. Instructions tell me to kiss the shelholder and thats it. No turns to let off like Ive seen in other dies. Although i will do this sometimes to fine tune for headspace that I want. In other words, I cant get it any smaller.
Seems to always be the same old thing....
I don't think Fuzzy is telling you the right way.
TURN YOUR DIE IN JUST A WEE BIT MORE AND YOUR PROBLEM WILL LIKELY BE SOLVED. There may be some tolerance stacking at work and you have a tight die to shellholder tolerance, or a pretty sloppy chamber(also likely). After you "kiss" the shellholder with the die turn it in a bit more until the ram "cams over". You will feel resistance and feel the clunk as it cams. Turn the die down to TOUCH the shellholder TIGHT. NOW retract the ram just a bit and turn your die in about 1/4 turn maybe less. You should need about 10lbs of pressure at cam over. Turn your die in a bit after you screw the die TIGHT to the shellholder. To get the die in any more after you touch the shellholder, you will have to lower the ram a bit. Lower the ram and turn the die in a bit more not much just enough so the ram gets a bit hard to go that last fraction of an inch. You are in effect compressing any slack out of the system. It is called camming or cam over in the reloading world. Lots of people do this, your press is designed to do this, your dies are designed to do this, people do it every day all across the country as they load their own ammo. If you like I can explain this again a bit more plainly. Trust us, you have a bit more room to push your shoulder available to you. If you understand but insist on doing it the way YOU want to do it then see my signature.
I don't think Fuzzy is telling you the right way.
TURN YOUR DIE IN JUST A WEE BIT MORE AND YOUR PROBLEM WILL LIKELY BE SOLVED. There may be some tolerance stacking at work and you have a tight die to shellholder tolerance, or a pretty sloppy chamber(also likely). After you "kiss" the shellholder with the die turn it in a bit more until the ram "cams over". You will feel resistance and feel the clunk as it cams. Turn the die down to TOUCH the shellholder TIGHT. NOW retract the ram just a bit and turn your die in about 1/4 turn maybe less. You should need about 10lbs of pressure at cam over. Turn your die in a bit after you screw the die TIGHT to the shellholder. To get the die in any more after you touch the shellholder, you will have to lower the ram a bit. Lower the ram and turn the die in a bit more not much just enough so the ram gets a bit hard to go that last fraction of an inch. You are in effect compressing any slack out of the system. It is called camming or cam over in the reloading world. Lots of people do this, your press is designed to do this, your dies are designed to do this, people do it every day all across the country as they load their own ammo. If you like I can explain this again a bit more plainly. Trust us, you have a bit more room to push your shoulder available to you. If you understand but insist on doing it the way YOU want to do it then see my signature.
Since there are a couple guys on this thread that seem to be brand new to reloading and are following die instructions from the factory here is another tip.
Sometimes setting up a seating die, per manufacturers instructions can cause these same problems. Here is why. If you follow their instructions your case may make contact with the crimp feature before the bullet is fully seated. This will bulge your case and make it hard to impossible to chamber, you may not be able to see the bulge. I have seen this MANY times with fledgling reloaders, not just on the internet but in person FTF. Since there is no reason ever to use the crimp feature in most seater dies here is how you set that sucker up to be trouble free.
Take a sized case and put it in your shellholder. Take your seating die and loosen the seater plug and back it out quite a bit. Make sure your die lock ring is loose and turn it up the die body quite a ways. Screw your seater die into the press a few turns and raise the ram with the sized case until it tops out. Now screw the die down until it stops, it should stop long before you touch the shellholder, if it does your die has a crimping feature and guess what? YOU JUST FOUND IT. NOW back the die out one full turn, this should set you off the crimping feature about .072" plenty safe. NOW tighten your lock ring and set screw. FROM NOW ON all you have to do is put the die in the press, tighten, and use your seataer plug to adjust bullet seating depth, just like you are supposed to.
Sometimes setting up a seating die, per manufacturers instructions can cause these same problems. Here is why. If you follow their instructions your case may make contact with the crimp feature before the bullet is fully seated. This will bulge your case and make it hard to impossible to chamber, you may not be able to see the bulge. I have seen this MANY times with fledgling reloaders, not just on the internet but in person FTF. Since there is no reason ever to use the crimp feature in most seater dies here is how you set that sucker up to be trouble free.
Take a sized case and put it in your shellholder. Take your seating die and loosen the seater plug and back it out quite a bit. Make sure your die lock ring is loose and turn it up the die body quite a ways. Screw your seater die into the press a few turns and raise the ram with the sized case until it tops out. Now screw the die down until it stops, it should stop long before you touch the shellholder, if it does your die has a crimping feature and guess what? YOU JUST FOUND IT. NOW back the die out one full turn, this should set you off the crimping feature about .072" plenty safe. NOW tighten your lock ring and set screw. FROM NOW ON all you have to do is put the die in the press, tighten, and use your seataer plug to adjust bullet seating depth, just like you are supposed to.
"I don't think Fuzzy is telling you the right way. TURN YOUR DIE IN JUST A WEE BIT MORE AND YOUR PROBLEM WILL LIKELY BE SOLVED. "
You use a lot more words to say screw the damp die down more. I suspect 1/8th turn (about 8 thou) would be plenty, certainly to start with.
You use a lot more words to say screw the damp die down more. I suspect 1/8th turn (about 8 thou) would be plenty, certainly to start with.
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I didn't do the 1/4 turn when I adjusted my .308 die, I loaded up a few rounds to cycle and all seemed well. Sized a bunch of rounds and loaded them only to find out it was a little snug when closing the bolt. It wasn't bad enough that I worried about it so I just ran them and I still have a few left shoot.
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