Tikka T3x CTR 6.5CM 24" - How fast do you run your bullets?

Jayjay1

Jayjay1

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Oct 30, 2018
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#1
Hey guys,
I´m wondering how fast you are running your 140gr. bullets with the factory barrel.
I´ve tried to push it as fast as possible and have read a lot, that 2850fps "is the right velocity", but it seems not for me.

I don´t know if it´s me, but I don´t get accuracy (under 1 MOA) with the original 24" barrel and 140grainers above 2800fps.
And I´ve tried some, Hornady, Nosler, Sierra, Berger, ...

Is it, that the barrel is not sturdy enough or is it me?

How fast do you guys run the 140grainers in the original 24" barrel with good to great accuracy?


Best wishes,
Jay
 
#2
You are wasting time, barrel life, and components chasing velocity. Find your node that consistently shoots well and enjoy the rifle. If you have a node in the 2700’s, run it. Mine was 2680.

My old Tikka barrel was very slow with the 140’s, but was a hammer. I currently have a Proof barrel on it now. While it is faster, the Tikka barrel was not holding me back.
 
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#3
Well, I was up to 3000fps with the 140s and around 2850fps with the 147 ELD-M.

Good to hear so, I will reduce the loads and see if I can get closer groups.
(y)
 
#5
I think we're all guilty of chasing maximum velocity at some point in our shooting past time. I know I did with my 280 ackley. I wanted over 2900 fps with 180 bergers. Every fps mattered to me. Eventually you'll learn that velocity is just a number. What's more important, IMHO, is to find a node that provides precision and accuracy. For example, when I was developing a load for my ackley I had an excellent accuracy node just under 2,800 fps. I don't recall the exact velocity, but was something like 2,780. However, that wasn't good enough. I needed more speed. As I approached 2,900 accuracy deteriorated, but I didn't care. "Scotty....I need more speed". Eventually I figured out that speed isn't everything and dialed the veolcity back. The faster you push it you will shorten brass and barrel life. As I'm sure you know.
 
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#6
Steel head said:
those speeds in a 24” barrel?
Especially a Tikka barrel which tend to be slow

yikes!

27XX is far more reasonable.
Click to expand...

Yessir!

Reload Swiss RS 70 is the wonder powder for the 6.5 CM.
I´ve tested six powders now in this caliber, RS 70 brings by far the highest velocities with the pressure still being ok.

I loaded all for max. speed, but see now that I might have to reduce my loads.
 
#9
Jayjay1 said:
Yessir!

Reload Swiss RS 70 is the wonder powder for the 6.5 CM.
I´ve tested six powders now in this caliber, RS 70 brings by far the highest velocities with the pressure still being ok.

I loaded all for max. speed, but see now that I might have to reduce my loads.
Click to expand...

isn't r16 Swiss?
Same powder?

I got 147’s to just under 2900 with my 260 and a longer barrel but I guarantee they’d pop primers if it got warm out and 2800 shoot so damn well at a mile.
 
#11
I'm as guilty of wanting "optimum" velocity as anyone, and I've chased it. But 99% of my shooting is 750 yards or less, 90% at 600 or less. The return on investment for an extra 100-150fps is simply not there. At all. Why trash brass and prematurely toast barrels for half or three-quarters of a mil at the relatively rare 1000-yard shots? I'm satisfied with 2725-2775 fps.
 
#12
Reloder 26 will give you the velocity. I have an accurate load with 47gr reloder 26 behind 140 Berger hybrids going 2820fps from my ruger American 22inch barrel. I highly agree with what others have said, no need to chase velocity as long as you have an accurate node with decent BC bullets, you won’t see much difference with that 100-150 fps increase, and you’re burning your barrel and shortening the brass life, plus most of those high BC .264 bullets are designed to be very stable at transonic speed.
 
#13
702shooter said:
Reloder 26 will give you the velocity. I have an accurate load with 47gr reloder 26 behind 140 Berger hybrids going 2820fps from my ruger American 22inch barrel. I highly agree with what others have said, no need to chase velocity as long as you have an accurate node with decent BC bullets, you won’t see much difference with that 100-150 fps increase, and you’re burning your barrel and shortening the brass life, plus most of those high BC .264 bullets are designed to be very stable at transonic speed.
Click to expand...
Ok, from this point on I motion to never speak of reloder 26 again since it is now completely unobtainable.

bench
 
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#16
My Tikka 24" barrel was slow as well. Drove me nuts at the time but it was dead nuts accurate. Tested a lot of times with a Labradar doing ladder tests with all sorts of combos. Here are the loads and speeds I ended up settling on. Powder was 4350 and Norma brass for all. 5 shot groups at 100

Lapua 139gr scenars 42.5gr, 2740 fps, SD 4, .3 MOA (max load careful)

Hornady 140gr ELD-Ms 41.5grs, 2663 fps, SD 7.6, .25 MOA

Berger 130 VLDs, 42.5gr, 2758fps, SD 2.9, .7 MOA

I liked the Lapuas 139s as they hit an accuracy node right under the max charge so velocity was up. The Hornady 140 ELDMs I had to give up a bit but they sure did print nice. Kind of a toss up. I put the 130 Begers in there as teh SD was unreal- the ES was actually 7 on those. I always figured I probably screwed up the group based on the numbers.
 
#17
Crang said:
I put the 130 Begers in there as teh SD was unreal- the ES was actually 7 on those. I always figured I probably screwed up the group based on the numbers.
Click to expand...
ES/SD and accuracy aren’t linked together.
It’s wonderful when they’re both present though.

my favorite AR load is wonderfully accurate but the SD is crappy.
I don’t care because it’s a short range AR load.
 
Last edited:
#18
Steel head said:
ES/SD aren’t linked together.
It’s wonderful when they’re both present though.

my favorite AR load is wonderfully accurate but the SD is crappy.
I don’t care because it’s a short range AR load.
Click to expand...

SD is directly proportional to ES. Think of ES as all the data point plotted on a bell curve with the mean at the center and SD is how wide even segments there are on that curve if 97.5% of the data points fit in +/-2 (or is it 3?) standard deviations from the mean. Or something like that. Its been a few decades since I took Prob/Stat.

The accuracy and SD dont directly coincide but I think there is a relationship there. Someone more knowledgable can chime in. The low numbers on ES/SD are as the barrel is at the end of its travel vibrating from being fired and at it s most stationary point as it changes direction-basically the accuracy nodes. SD/ES dont line up exaclty but they are usually pretty close but not always..
 
#19
Crang said:
SD is directly proportional to ES. Think of ES as all the data point plotted on a bell curve with the mean at the center and SD is how wide even segments there are on that curve if 97.5% of the data points fit in +/-2 (or is it 3?) standard deviations from the mean. Or something like that. Its been a few decades since I took Prob/Stat.

The accuracy and SD dont directly coincide but I think there is a relationship there. Someone more knowledgable can chime in. The low numbers on ES/SD are as the barrel is at the end of its travel vibrating from being fired and at it s most stationary point as it changes direction-basically the accuracy nodes. SD/ES dont line up exaclty but they are usually pretty close but not always..
Click to expand...
I forget a part
I meant to say ES/Sd aren’t linked to accuracy.
My second sentence kinda says that.

typing in the morning before coffee is challenging for me.
 
#21
Steel head said:
I forget a part
I meant to say ES/Sd aren’t linked to accuracy.
My second sentence kinda says that.

typing in the morning before coffee is challenging for me.
Click to expand...


Why wouldn't ES/SD have anything to do with accuracy?

ES is extreme spread, which I take this as being the range. Or, taking your highest MV and lowest MV and finding your difference.

SD is standard deviation. Which if I remember correctly from stat class, answers the following question:

On average, how far away are your numbers (in this case MV) from your average. So you first calculate the mean out of all your shots. Then, you get the difference of each shot and your mean. Lastly, you get the average of all those differences, and that is your SD.

If your MVs are deviating way too mich from your mean, or if your extreme spread is relatively large, I would believe it would give you really bad accuracy at distance. At least I would assume you would have some shots high and some low, so your group would not be tight. At least having low ES/SD would make your groups more constant and more repeatable, and your shots should be hitting pretty much all fairly close to your POA.

Since I have done no specific testing on whether there is any type of correlation between SD/ES and accuracy or group size, I would like for someone to correct me if I'm wrong or further explain this more if someone is more knowledgeable on this.
 
#23
Jayjay1 said:
Is it, that the barrel is not sturdy enough or is it me?
Click to expand...

With my Tikka I could get the 140 ELDs hand loads up to 2900 but was having pressure issues with H4350 as well as compressed loads. At 2850 I didn't have very good accuracy. I was getting about the same accuracy as the factory hornady 140 Match ammo, about 1" or a little larger.
For giggles I tried the 130ELDs and my mind was blown! Almost any powder charge with the 130's created one hole groups and I can push them 2900 without pressure issues, although I think I am at the top of the safe pressure. Since my rifle eat the 130's so well I never really finished the load testing for the 140s.

Photos of a 1/2 min group at 100 and 3/4 min at 770yds (minus the wind call adjustment on the left of the target)
Capture1.JPG Capture2.JPG
 
#24
I guess you are having a 24" CTR too, right?

Well, the 147 flies 200yds. further supersonic than the 130.
But what does that help if someone doesn´t hit?

Must I try another bullet?
:oops:
 
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#29
Find a load your rifle likes and stick with it. Don't worry about pushing max velocity.

I find my 24" CTR likes 41.5gr H4350 and Hornady ELDM bullets. Shoots about 2730fps for me.
 
#31
kentuckyMarksman said:
Find a load your rifle likes and stick with it. Don't worry about pushing max velocity.

I find my 24" CTR likes 41.5gr H4350 and Hornady ELDM bullets. Shoots about 2730fps for me.
Click to expand...
What weight bullets? My 147s never got that fast, closer to 2650 with 41.5gr H4350. My 20" CTRs are, not surprisingly, slower yet at around 2590 or 2600 with the same load.

I hope, and maybe someone smarter than me can chime in, that the slower speed with Tikka barrels translates to longer barrel life overall.
 
#32
Rodney65 said:
What weight bullets? My 147s never got that fast, closer to 2650 with 41.5gr H4350. My 20" CTRs are, not surprisingly, slower yet at around 2590 or 2600 with the same load.

I hope, and maybe someone smarter than me can chime in, that the slower speed with Tikka barrels translates to longer barrel life overall.
Click to expand...
Gotta be 130 eld-m

I’m not gonna say it’s impossible to push a 140 at 2700+ with 41.5 grains, but no other load data that I’ve seen supports that as a feasible option.
 
#33
Mine 147 ELDM load is 42.2gr ADI2209 (H4350) and does 2680fps. It doesn't appear to be a hot load.

I've got two loads each for 130 ELDMs and 123 Scenars. All ADI2209.

130 ELDMS
44.0gr 2950fps
42.5gr 2795fps

123 Scenar
44.0gr 2950fps
42.0gr 2810fps
 
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