Time to Jump... Streklok Pro or Hornady 4DOF vs ?

[Samuel Whittemore]

The first dope chart for my Savage 300 WM was done for me and stuck in my scope cap. I didn't learn much. I need to learn this. I shoot mostly Hornady and in my first time try'n teach myself now, with my Ruger 300 PRC, seems like their 4DOF app is way easier. Probably bc I watched and followed along with their video.

I like that a Kestral 5700 is specifically designed for them and it's $200. cheaper than the Kestrel 5700 Elite Applied Ballistics one.

While I like rifle LR competitions, I'm not a competition shooter nor have I ever got much interest in competing against others. I just like competing against me. Next gun I'll own is a 300 NM.. don't see mysef buying another one after that (although that was what I said after the Savage too).

Any feedback is appreciated. Like if I'm missing some consideration... or the AB is that much better. But again... I'm just tip-toeing into this so my knowledge level is faint.

 

[_Windrider_]

I’d pick strelock between those. I don’t like 4DOF. It’s got potential but it’s just not there

 

[Samuel Whittemore]

I’d pick strelock between those. I don’t like 4DOF. It’s got potential but it’s just not there

K.. thanks. Ever obsessive that I am... I jumped and bought the full version so I might as well learn it.
Just seems like a lot more stuff to input I am only just beginning to grasp.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[ForgeValley]

Yeah I agree with that. 4dof has a shiny interface, but I used them both pretty extensively and Strelok won me over. So much packed into that app, and the solutions always seemed to agree with what my bullet was doing in real life better.

 

[W54/XM-388]

I might consider looking at the new ballistics program that @THEIS is about to release.
It's based on Patagonia Ballistics and should be a significant step up from a lot of what is on the market currently.

 

[6.5SH]

K.. thanks. Ever obsessive that I am... I jumped and bought the full version so I might as well learn it.
Just seems like a lot more stuff to input I am only just beginning to grasp.

Thanks for the feedback.

It is well worth the $12. I'd have suggested paying for it even if to just tide you over until THEIS app is released.

 

[Samuel Whittemore]

I might consider looking at the new ballistics program that @THEIS is about to release.
It's based on Patagonia Ballistics and should be a significant step up from a lot of what is on the market currently.

LOL... Oh sh*t... that's right! Early Alzheimers I designed the darn website and I totally forgot about that! LOL. Well... in any case... I'll start with using Strelok bc learning the concepts and what everything is I'm sure can be applied to his. I wish there was an intensive in person class I could take just on DOPE.

 

[6.5SH]

Not sure which phone OS you use but can read up on the app here:

http://www.borisov.mobi/strelokpro/android/default.asp

http://www.borisov.mobi/StrelokPro/ios/

 

[_Windrider_]

LOL... Oh sh*t... that's right! Early Alzheimers I designed the darn website and I totally forgot about that! LOL. Well... in any case... I'll start with using Strelok bc learning the concepts and what everything is I'm sure can be applied to his. I wish there was an intensive in person class I could take just on DOPE.

Oh but there is.

 

[Last Chance]

K.. thanks. Ever obsessive that I am... I jumped and bought the full version so I might as well learn it.
Just seems like a lot more stuff to input I am only just beginning to grasp.

Thanks for the feedback.

I have Strelok pro...Good to get the pro version, It's affordable!!! I've used it and like it...I keep things simple, you don't have to use all the bells and whistles for it to be very useful...

 

[Samuel Whittemore]

Oh but there is.

LOL... The second half of that statement is missing.
Oh but there is AT ____________________

 

[_Windrider_]

LOL... The second half of that statement is missing.
Oh but there is AT ____________________

Well remember dope is actual data. You make your calculator match that. Applied ballistics has great seminars and Frank’s class is also great for getting you going on gathering dope and getting the calculator tuned up

 

[Samuel Whittemore]

So much to learn so little time... https://www.snipershide.com/precision-rifle/truing-your-ballistic-calculator-with-weaponized-math/
Thank you guys.

 

[Johnny00K]

I've used many apps over the years and they all work, some are easier than others. For the last 2 years I have used a Kestrel 5700 w/ Applied Ballistics exclusively. It is far easier to just use the Kestrel and at this point I don't think I will ever use an app again. The Kestrel is always spot on and it really limits user error. The only time I use my cell phone when shooting is for loading gun profiles into our hunting rangefinders. If I had rifle enough to go past 3000 yards it might be a different story but until I do we will be using the Kestrel exclusively. I've never been around 4DOF, so no comment on that.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

I've tried a bunch (including Hornady 4DOF) and kept coming back to Strelok Pro. Haven't felt the need to dink with anything else in a year or more now.

A buddy of mine picked up a Kestrel 5700 with all the AB bells&whistles off a prize table.. didn't like/use it and gave it to me to try fall a year ago. I kept it a month and said screw it, this thing is a PITA to me - emphasis on to me; I'm not dumping on the product - and gave it back. Perhaps because I was very familiar with Strelok... but I just had more trouble than I was willing to sort through in understanding the 5700/AB interface.

 

[jeepguy88]

I had the free Strelok version for along time. Tried to use 4DOF. The 4DOF interface is pretty nice, but the math never worked out for me. Using 3 different guns at 1000 the 4dOF was way off. Strelok has always been spot on. I like Strelok so much I bought Strelok Pro. To get a few more features and show some support. My first app ever purchased.

 

[Gee Kay]

get free strelok for now and wait for genesis

 

[Samuel Whittemore]

Hey thnks.

Sterlok is quite complex for the newb. And not pretty. Theres stuff in there I got zero clue what it means... I was just getting up to speed with understanding 4DOF. But now what I've read from stuff on here, if I understand correctly, is I should do it manually anyways. No computers.

Snipped:
"One of the downsides to using a ballistic calculator is the before vs. after effect. We read every day on Sniper’s Hide about shooters who have issues aligning their software to their real-world data. This is understandable because most are working the problem backward. Worse in this situation are shooters who feel they need the computer to get started. They have no reference points to use so they believe the computer is the only answer.
The easiest way to set up a ballistic calculator is after the rifle has been doped out to distance."

Anyways Sterlok will become less intimidating the more I play with it, looking up terms if I have too. Quite overwhelming.

 

[_Windrider_]

Hey thnks.

Sterlok is quite complex for the newb. And not pretty. Theres stuff in there I got zero clue what it means... I was just getting up to speed with understanding 4DOF. But now what I've read from stuff on here, if I understand correctly, is I should do it manually anyways. No computers.

Snipped:
"One of the downsides to using a ballistic calculator is the before vs. after effect. We read every day on Sniper’s Hide about shooters who have issues aligning their software to their real-world data. This is understandable because most are working the problem backward. Worse in this situation are shooters who feel they need the computer to get started. They have no reference points to use so they believe the computer is the only answer.
The easiest way to set up a ballistic calculator is after the rifle has been doped out to distance."

Anyways Sterlok will become less intimidating the more I play with it, looking up terms if I have too. Quite overwhelming.

use @Enough Said and @lowlight weaponized math method to get you on target to 1k. then we can tweak strelok to match. once you do it a coupe times it gets fast and easy. the biggest thing with ballistic calculators is the setup and entering the correct information. something as simple as your height over bore being wrong can cause big problems.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

Hey thnks.

Sterlok is quite complex for the newb. And not pretty. Theres stuff in there I got zero clue what it means... I was just getting up to speed with understanding 4DOF. But now what I've read from stuff on here, if I understand correctly, is I should do it manually anyways. No computers.

Snipped:
"One of the downsides to using a ballistic calculator is the before vs. after effect. We read every day on Sniper’s Hide about shooters who have issues aligning their software to their real-world data. This is understandable because most are working the problem backward. Worse in this situation are shooters who feel they need the computer to get started. They have no reference points to use so they believe the computer is the only answer.
The easiest way to set up a ballistic calculator is after the rifle has been doped out to distance."

Anyways Sterlok will become less intimidating the more I play with it, looking up terms if I have too. Quite overwhelming.

What pieces of Strelok are confusing? I'll be happy to help if I can, as will many others.

I've never had trouble getting Strelok Pro to align closely, if not perfectly, with observed data from eight different rifles in three different calibers. Of course, the .22 rimfires were twitchiest, just due to the nature of .22. But my .223s and 6.5CMs were always within a tenth or two of what Strelok predicted out to 875 yards, and then it's simple to "true" the calculator. I've struggled a few times with hits at 1000-1200, but I'm confident those challenges arose from environmental factors, not something wrong with Strelok's output.

The main thing to have, imo, is an accurate muzzle velocity. That means a chronograph... or others will opine that you can derive a velocity by zeroing at 100 and gathering data on elevations/hits as far out as you can go. My philosophical "issue" with the latter is, the further out you go, the more impact environmental conditions have on how the bullet prints, so I have found myself always verifying my Strelok output against what happens at the target. There are time-lapse videos "out there" of spotting scopes centered on a distant target (900 yards plus or minus); as light and mirage change through the day, the target appears to move by as much as half a mil. But neither target nor scope is moving.

Fwiw.

 

[Long Range 338]

Between Hornady 4DOF and Strelok Pro I would choose the Hornady app if using Hornady bullets with the doppler data. If you are using the Hornady BC calculator, I wouldn't bother as others are much better.

I've got a dozen apps and like to nerd out with them comparing real world results against the different apps with the same data entered. In reality all the apps with work if you spend the time to correctly adjust your inputs for the correct calculations.

I shoot a lot of Hornady so the 4DOF works for me, also the interface is more intuitive IMO. Strelok works well but requires more fine tuning in my experience and the interface isn't as easy for me to navigate. Buy Strelok and enjoy the Hornady for free and compare your results. I think having multiple calculators is an excellent resource/training tool.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

I've been using Strelok for quite a while now and it works very well for me. I've spent A LOT of time playing with it on the couch entering different settings and such just to get the feel and will play with it before a match just to familiarize myself with everything so I'm not struggling to use it. It's can be as simple or complicated as you choose. Play with the difference ballistic profiles to find what matches your actual dope and you should be able use it reliably in the field. G1 has been perfect for my Center X and Midas even though there's a ballistic profile specific to those bullets. Knowing your actual FPS for speed is immensely helpful. If you don't have an accurate speed, you don't have shit. Especially if you're shooting over 500 for CF and 100 for RF.

 

[brianf]

Hoplite Genesis is moments away...id wait if i were you

 

[iceng]

Strelok pro. Been using it a long time. 7+ year I think. Tried others, and nothing seems to be as consistent. AB always gives me grief, I'll have to dig up the screenshot of the solution where it GAINS velocity and lower drop like a gyrojet. 3 different people couldn't figure out why it was weird.

Have a kestrel 5700 which does work super reliably, drop results are spot on. 4dof is just janky and also gives erratic results on occasion unless you are using their specific bullets in their library.

Geobal is kinda cool, but I always keep coming back to strelok. Boris is super nice, always responsive to suggestions, and the app simply works.

Strelok pro and 5700elite, purely for inputting Atmos data, but why not have a redundancy incase, which outputs good data.

 

[chevy_man]

Hornady was spot on to 1300 shooting their bullets with good velocity info. If you're not using their bullets and dopler info it's useless.

I rely on strelok pro for everything though. It's way more accurate when you get the data in there.

Example: I changed 22lr ammo. I sighted at 50 and used the strelok default for the ammo to get close at 300. Adjusted my turrets until I was consistently hitting on the horizontal (left right is wind, not a big deal when you're looking for drop). Went to the "true drop". Input my actual dialed drop and it spits out an adjusted speed or bc. Told it to use that adjusted bc and I was able to run it anywhere out to 500 within a tenth.


I bought Bryan's book and tried the AB that it comes with. I was getting damn near identical numbers to strelok.

 

[iceng]

I also own the library of AB books, and are rock solid data, as is the custom curves in kestrel units. Also found 4dod to be less than useless when making a custom bullet with custom BC. It just doesn't work.

Strelok is Old faithful, clean interface, easily switch guns or ammo for a gun, and dial in your data, plus connecting via BT to a kestrel for atmosphere is so convenient. If not it has a "closest weather station" based on your GPS if that's your thing.

 

[Samuel Whittemore]

Ok... I focused a bit and did the best I could adding the info into Strelok. Being an interface designer... noooo like that interface... klunky. Compared to 4DOF anyways.

I know my velocity is 2896 --the averaged 5 shots taken with a Caldwell Crono. I am using a beginner rifle Ruger Precision Rifle 300 prc Model 18083. Athlon 4.4x30 50 Ares FFP MIL

Does this all look correct?

Took AD from this guy's Kestral read, since Google Maps seems to be retarded.

A key factor I assume...I'm not sure about the wind at all... That day I know there were occasional 25mph gusts... but I don't recall what it was doing when I was actually shooting. I'm guessing that negates everything..

Good exercise tho. I'll have fun going again Tues and redoing everything, making sure everything is correct.

Any idea the release date of Genesis?

 

[6.5SH]

Unless your zero point of impact was .1 mil high and right remove the zero offset entries.
Twist would just be 9 for 1 in 9" not 1.9

 

[Samuel Whittemore]

Unless your zero point of impact was .1 mil high and right remove the zero offset entries.
Twist would just be 9 for 1 in 9" not 1.9

TY

 

[LastShot300]

Any idea the release date of Genesis?

Word is it's coming out pretty soon, I have read some reviews from Beta testers and it's a blast. Worth the wait for sure.

 

[6.5SH]

Entering your info it seems that yours would be an "8 mph" rifle wind wise. Try entering 8.0 for wind speed and 90 degrees for direction.
Hit Calculate! and then click the chart button. The wind hold should be 0.1 Mil per 100 yards.

Click the gear icon on that page to select/deselect what you want shown and increase the range displayed etc.

I'd bookmark both of these:

https://www.hornady.com/bullets/rifle/30-cal-.308-225-gr-eld-match#!/

Ballistic Coefficient - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc

A-Tip®, ELD® Match, and ELD-X® Ballistic Coefficient Values Hornady originally published “800 yard”* average Ballistic Coefficient (BC) values for ELD-X and ELD Match bullets. This was done to provide the most usable BC from a trajectory prediction st...

www.hornady.com

You will eventually want the info to compare, adjust and tweak things as needed.

 

[Samuel Whittemore]

Word is coming pretty soon, I have read some reviews from Beta testers and it's a blast. Worth the wait for sure.

Well, DOH... I just stumbled across the Genesis thread. WOW. Impressive. I should have known coming from Theis.

How much?

 

[6.5SH]

Well, DOH... I just stumbled across the Genesis thread. WOW. Impressive. I should have known coming from Theis.

How much?

Genesis Ballistics Solutions--Android Now Available!!

Forgive me if I missed it. What is the estimated price point? Good question

www.snipershide.com

 

[Samuel Whittemore]

Thanks... I have about 100 windows open and I didn't quite get to that part of the thread. But yeah.. for the Genesis $30. is a friggen deal! TY