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Tips and secrets for increasing the accuracy in an ar15
- Thread starter bronxmurdock1
- Start date
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Not quite sure what you meant by that, but I will take a stab at it.
So when shooting from a bench I can get 3/4 MOA, but would like to shoot .5, so I can take the AR15 out to its limit on distance.
This video was me be able to shoot my AR15 with 1. a magazine over 10 rounds and 2. a normal magazine release button.
I built the rifle about 4 years ago while living in California, and moved to Colorado recently.
Leave the moderation to me. You can stick with being a drama queen making vague accusations about manufacturers with zero evidence.
No, drama is not my thing. Is being a bully moderator yours?
I've done my part in answering the original post to the best of my ability. While I may not have told you what does not work, I have told you what does work, which is what the original poster wanted to know in the first place, and far more useful info. Building the uppers for several top 3-gun shooters for many years, to include Taran Butler, may have taught us a few things.
My "accusations" were in no way vague. To the contrary, they were quite specific about the accuracy degradation resulting from using the muzzle devices of a certain suppressor company.
If it upsets you that I do not disparage a particular company based on my own personal testing, we will both just have to learn to live with that.
Or you can kick me off SH and show everyone how they had better not cross a "Super Moderator" like you.
Your move.
It's not hard to figure out which manufacturer is being spoken of if you've followed posts here over the years and on other places. It has been seen as a trend on occasion, it's not necessarily the rule for this particular manufacturer, but it's not uncommon either. I can understand someone in MSTN's place not wanting to throw a certain manufacturer under the bus like that as that was not originally the topic of this discussion.
Being a "bully moderator"? I guess if you're a thin-skinned pussy then yes.
We really don't care who you think you are or who you build AR's for. This isn't 3-gun hide.
Your accusations were absolutely vague. You were not specific when you said "Muzzle devices from one well-known suppressor company will totally destroy any barrel's accuracy potential. Get a Surefire to be safe." A "well known suppressor company" is not specific, it is vague. It's not my fault you don't know the definition of vague.
Well, it doesn't upset me at all that you're trying to cause drama for a particular company. The fact that you even had to mention it whatsoever lends to the fact that you invited drama. I wont have to live with anything.
You're right, I can kick you off of SH and show everyone we don't need drama queens here. Go have fun wherever you normally hangout.
So what happens when your attempt at Reverse Psychology backfires? You do realize you're actually a guest here right and although you think your entitled... well... you're not... lol
Honestly, I started this thread to see if anybody had any tips or tricks about increasing the accuracy in my ar-15. I currently have a SJC Titan comp on the end of my barrel, and I'm very interested to know if the brand this person is talking about is SICK. If IT is creating worse accuracy then what my rifle could produce I would like to know. I think this person should say the company that makes this so called muzzle brake that will ruin your accuracy, for the common good of the forum.
There are two reasons he should have stated who it was. 1) to save people such as potentially yourself from making a bad decision. 2) to give said manufacturer a chance to defend themselves. Unfortunately he will not be back to tell us. He wished to be bullied and I granted his wish.
BTW, I hope you find success.
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Fairly certain he's talking about AAC. Its weird the brakes tend to cause the groups to open up until a can is installed on it then they settle back down. At least that is my exp and why I don't run them on my match rifles anymore.
This wasn't the first time he would throw out a claim and never return to explain or back it up. I have not doubt that MSTN (Wes, I believe it is?) makes an accurate rifle, knows his stuff, and could contribute a wealth of info to the hide. What I don't understand is his tendancy to leave you out of the loop when he thinks he knows something. I hate to see knowledgeable people go, but some "professionals" get so dang touchy on the internet.
I don't mean to make a broad brush statement as I'm sure there are good guys out there but it seems most of these "three gun" types are douchebags.
The moderator is correct. If you have knowledge of a known problem with accuracy concerning a Muzzle device why should you not share? I thought that was one of the concepts of this board was to share knowledge and experiences with others? Many on here have had problems with reputable Smiths. CLE, Noveske, GAP, KAC among others have been mentioned in threads where users were experiencing problems. Advice was given on these forums and the end users were given information to reinforce their suspicions that they had a defective product. Hiding information and being vague and evasive does not do anyone any good. That type of behavior reeks of hiding manufacturers flaws to protect dealers bottom lines in my opinion. I have read many of Wes's threads and find him to be very knowledgeable. Like wareagle700 it is a shame to see someone like him booted from the site. But I will share my experience with Wes. During the AR craze a few years ago I was perusing the Gunbroker boards and noticed that he had a special run Noveske 18" SPR barrel with Rifle length gas system. I emailed him expressing interest in purchasing a barrel. His response was for me to buy it off Gunbroker. I informed Wes that I would just like to purchase it outright and was not a member of Gunbroker and he basically said to bad.
on
on
Hey guys there is a certain company that you all know that makes a product that you all use and its going to kill you but because sunnosnvnifjw, I've seen it first hand but, i'm not going to do you the service of telling you who it is. Ok bye.
Also here is a video of me shooting some .75 MOA dirt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgKDtsqZHGo
Also here is a video of me shooting some .75 MOA dirt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgKDtsqZHGo
Watched your video, you seem a little young to be on a forum.
But keep up the good work.
It's all about trigger control and taking time to aim.
Not sure you are old enough to use a ruler or tape measure, but I think you are not shooting the groups you think you are. Honestly you are going to have a hard time shooting sub MOA from standing.
Next time you are out with your dad at the range, ask him if you can use a bench rest.
After reading your response to VJJ and watching you blast dirt at 70 yards I'de say you're a narcissist variant of a mall ninja. If you can shoot .5MOA why even start this thread seein how you have already figured it out? Just out of curiosity.
VJJ's advice is as solid as his cock in your mom. Why bust his balls.
P.S. Your avatar is not badass. If you do that to your wheel guns you truly are a fucking retard as previously stated by VJJ.
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What is with all the personal attacks here recently? Why not help a guy out by giving some advise? If they don't want it, their loss. IMO, lately there have been too many threads derailed by this crap. Helpful info without the BS used to be what set this place apart from other forums. Too many people trying to be comedians in tech forums.
if you have a good barrel and upper like this vltor ...blue loclite gel all over the Ar 15 Barrel Extension | Brownells before installing into reserver ...tighten barrel nut right ....clean up anything which will give you troubles .....take time to study how things work together ......dont use cheap Q/C parts !!!
Cliff Notes:
OP asks for accuracy tips on the AR15.
Children show up and start throwing sand. Various adult novelty toys are mentioned? Insults are levied, including ones mentioning people's dead mothers and rape.
MSTN gets banned?
How do we get this back to being a helpful technical forum?
BTW, there is a whole series of posts on accurizing the AR15 and AR10 here on the hide, with a lot of details that are well worth researching, including pictures, tooling, etc.
OP asks for accuracy tips on the AR15.
Children show up and start throwing sand. Various adult novelty toys are mentioned? Insults are levied, including ones mentioning people's dead mothers and rape.
MSTN gets banned?
How do we get this back to being a helpful technical forum?
BTW, there is a whole series of posts on accurizing the AR15 and AR10 here on the hide, with a lot of details that are well worth researching, including pictures, tooling, etc.
Seriously? I see youve been here bout the same time I have, what has always set this forum apart from the others was the lack of ARFCOM mall ninjas, and the ability for the forum to weed them out. Don't act like you're one of the old guys from the past. Whats changed recently is the overwhelming increase in those types, running off some of the biggest names in shooting sports that used to frequent here. Its Franks site, Frank's rules I am ok with that.
For the record, the OP is who caused this thread's course by running his mouth to people who were giving advice.
get it back? its always been the best source for technical information, just dont come on board being a douchnozzle and cry foul when confronted about it.
Excellent summary, thanks for that!
OP is a tool, more specifically - a douchenozzle...
SH is still a great forum, hopefully SMEs are not leaving due to an influx of wanna-be mall ninja types.
I can attest, experts in actual special mission units (not just AF fucktards or Marine Corps Marksmen / "Snipers") still frequent SH for advice, education from experts, and comic relief, yes, comedic exchanges for amusement and entertainment, all can be had on one forum, it is possible!
Good grief man! That got ugly. I figured I might be able to make a contribution but I'm not so sure now as I don't own a fleshlight...........yet.......I've had great luck with the 77's myself. Run them mag length, but I know a few guys who load them long and use them at 600. I don't know if 80's would work for your barrel. They would be single load if you wanted to give them a shot. The 1/8 will work for the 80's, I am not sure if 18" would be enough tube. Full disclosure, I'm shooting service rifle but have shot very good groups from all positions. I reckon if you're running some glass, you will lay 'em in there. I have found that the rifle will perform better with some mags as opposed to others. (This is even more so in the M14/M1A platform) Try some different mags and mark them. I will assume that the tube is free floated? Sounds like you got good kit. I guess my final deep thought from my shallow mind is to remember that we can only wring out so much accuracy from gas guns. Good luck and good shooting!
Doug
Doug
To the OPs question-
I have HBAR Wilson SS barrel that was OK- nothing special. Wanted to have it reprofiled to reduce the weight. The Gunsmith looked at crown and asked how it shot. I said right around an 1" @ 100 if I did my part. He recut the crown and said he'd guarantee the groups would shrink. They did.
So my tidbit is to check the crown. A little uneven and it can make a big difference.
Oh - and use a Surefire MB.
I have HBAR Wilson SS barrel that was OK- nothing special. Wanted to have it reprofiled to reduce the weight. The Gunsmith looked at crown and asked how it shot. I said right around an 1" @ 100 if I did my part. He recut the crown and said he'd guarantee the groups would shrink. They did.
So my tidbit is to check the crown. A little uneven and it can make a big difference.
Oh - and use a Surefire MB.
Ha. Too Funny. Somedays I miss the internet.
True Story.
A couple years back I was driving around downtown Charlotte NC trying to find parking and getting some quality skull from an overachieving blonde<----the reason for the trip. Wes calls me and we are talking about this very thing. I'm swerving all over the road and trying to make sense. And find somewhere to park. And it's awful and awesome and very much indicative of my life at that time. I'm sure half of what I said towards the end was gibberish as I attempted to not rear end another car or get my junk bit off before I could get her to stop.
The issue in accuracy degradation had to do with the aperture of the muzzle device just after the threads where the barrel screws in. Basically if it was too small groups went to shit until the muzzle device was either removed or the aperture was bored out. Most companies had a larger aperture and one in particular did not. I don't know if they have since corrected it or not as I left the suppressor world not too long afterwards. I suggested Surefire to Wes and either that was the last time I ever spoke to Wes. Or maybe it was the night on my porch talking SR-25 experiences. Can't remember anymore. Definitely one of those two.
This problem would be obvious to see. And many many many many people never saw it for some reason. And it wasn't because the muzzle devices were improperly made or from a bad batch. It seemed the people who were buying those suppressors and muzzle devices were not the ones pursuing real accuracy. If a barrel shoots awesome with bare threads and properly attaching a muzzle devices makes the groups go 3X as large the problem is right there staring you in the face. This problem did not seem to be a problem when the suppressor was attached. That's all I remember.
This was years ago. No idea if this still holds true but it would be amazingly easy to tell. Do you have an expensive muzzle device on your gun? Does it shoot amazingly better when the can is on but not when the can is detached? Pull the muzzle device and see what happens with just a bare muzzle.
The company in question is not important--I'm sure they were not and will not be the only company with this problem. What is important is that this seemingly obvious accuracy degradation was going completely unnoticed and talked about.
True Story.
A couple years back I was driving around downtown Charlotte NC trying to find parking and getting some quality skull from an overachieving blonde<----the reason for the trip. Wes calls me and we are talking about this very thing. I'm swerving all over the road and trying to make sense. And find somewhere to park. And it's awful and awesome and very much indicative of my life at that time. I'm sure half of what I said towards the end was gibberish as I attempted to not rear end another car or get my junk bit off before I could get her to stop.
The issue in accuracy degradation had to do with the aperture of the muzzle device just after the threads where the barrel screws in. Basically if it was too small groups went to shit until the muzzle device was either removed or the aperture was bored out. Most companies had a larger aperture and one in particular did not. I don't know if they have since corrected it or not as I left the suppressor world not too long afterwards. I suggested Surefire to Wes and either that was the last time I ever spoke to Wes. Or maybe it was the night on my porch talking SR-25 experiences. Can't remember anymore. Definitely one of those two.
This problem would be obvious to see. And many many many many people never saw it for some reason. And it wasn't because the muzzle devices were improperly made or from a bad batch. It seemed the people who were buying those suppressors and muzzle devices were not the ones pursuing real accuracy. If a barrel shoots awesome with bare threads and properly attaching a muzzle devices makes the groups go 3X as large the problem is right there staring you in the face. This problem did not seem to be a problem when the suppressor was attached. That's all I remember.
This was years ago. No idea if this still holds true but it would be amazingly easy to tell. Do you have an expensive muzzle device on your gun? Does it shoot amazingly better when the can is on but not when the can is detached? Pull the muzzle device and see what happens with just a bare muzzle.
The company in question is not important--I'm sure they were not and will not be the only company with this problem. What is important is that this seemingly obvious accuracy degradation was going completely unnoticed and talked about.
Actually if you want an accurate AR, just have MSTN build ya one. You won't be disappointed. He's forgotten more about AR's than Ill ever know.
No hes really not.
Sorry I didn't see this thread last month, but people are clearly missing the obvious.
Wes (MSTN) is a very well known builder and has been doing it longer, for more "door kickers" than most anyone you can name. While I used to make fun of him back in the day on Arfcom for his tendancy TO SAY EVERYTHING IN CAPS, ALL THE TIME...... he knows his shit inside and out. That is not debatable. He is a wealth of knowledge and is a great asset to ANY gunboard.
He came here, gave good info, and even a small piece of advice that anyone without rocks for brains would understand is advice. If you are too dumb/dense to see that, that's your problem, not his. As a business owner/builder himself, its not exactly prudent to call out by name a certain cocksucking, Freedom Group, shitty quallity suppressor manufacture that has a well known history of using it's size to sue/bully smaller companies.
Put 2 + 2 together and you get 4. He may just not want to state "4" directly as it could cause backlash to his livelyhood.
The hide has some great moderator's and this is one of the more free flowing sites, but cmon man, why throw the baby out with the bath water?
For you or me, its easy to call companies out by name becuse our livelyhood is not tied to what we say on a website, and quite frankley some of us don't give a shit becuase when your right your right. But don't put a business owner with ass in the game on the same playing field as a bunch of consumers who have little/no risk in calling out shitty products. That's really not fair.
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I agree, banning Wes was kind of childish. Surefire is well known to have the least amount of shift. That was the hint.
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But my Lantac Dragon Muzzle Break makes fireballs AND has "dragon" in the name. I win. +5000 mall ninja points.
All my AR's are waaaaay more accurate than I am, I could put a potato on the barrel and still not reach their accuracy potential....
My limited experience would lead me to tell the OP that for a really precision semi, to buy quality parts and have it assembled (at least the upper) by a reputable gunsmith unless you have lots and lots of experience. A great smith with lots of AR building experience will also help you buy your parts and tell you what to spend your money on and what is BS. Or buy an expensive factory build like JP or GAP.
Also, do NOT put a potato on your barrel, aka a "California silencer." Supersonic potato parts can be VERY dangerous....and it's embarrassing to admit to your buddies that your black eye (thank god for eye protection) is from a potato. (It happened long, long ago, back when I already knew everything --ahhhh to be a teenager again.)
All my AR's are waaaaay more accurate than I am, I could put a potato on the barrel and still not reach their accuracy potential....
My limited experience would lead me to tell the OP that for a really precision semi, to buy quality parts and have it assembled (at least the upper) by a reputable gunsmith unless you have lots and lots of experience. A great smith with lots of AR building experience will also help you buy your parts and tell you what to spend your money on and what is BS. Or buy an expensive factory build like JP or GAP.
Also, do NOT put a potato on your barrel, aka a "California silencer." Supersonic potato parts can be VERY dangerous....and it's embarrassing to admit to your buddies that your black eye (thank god for eye protection) is from a potato. (It happened long, long ago, back when I already knew everything --ahhhh to be a teenager again.)
I usually don't agree with anything CC has to say....but this is spot on....Wes was an asset....I'm going to assume there was more to this than this one thread but if not its total bs.
To answer the original questions, I am not an expert at anything, just talkative.
I agree with several of the posts. Barrel and load are key, trigger and optics make those keys usable, and ensuring that there are no flaws in the construction and mountings makes troubleshooting simpler, if not actually unnecessary.
I have owned a Colt Match Target AR15, currently own a Stag 6 Super Varminter 24", and also have a CMMG 16 Bull WASP upper. About all these last two have in common is heavyweight barrels.
An earlier reference to the HDY 75gr HPBT Match bullet and around 24gr of Varget sounds familiar. My load is mag length 23.7gr and it works admirably in both uppers, as well as a Savage 11VT, and even a Mossberg MVP Predator. All have 1:9" or 1:8" twists. My optics are Weaver and Bushnell, a Classic V-24, and an AR Optic BDC 3-12x40. The trigger is whatever Stag is using for the Super Varminter, probably their own.
Handloading is a critical asset. Finding a factory load that works is only really valid for that production lot. There are exceptions. but manufacturers use components according to bids and sometimes those components change according to the outcomes of those bids. Corporate realignments have added some stability to that, but the only real way to maintain a consistent load is to develop one for your rifle, make it up in batches yourself, and to verify that load's performance when you suspect a component variance. For such instances, I keep and use an RCBS Collet Bullet Puller (a lot). Following this advice has helped me to get my rifles to shoot far better than they should have a right to shoot. My 24" Stag gives my Savage 24" 11VT a run for its money at 250yd with the same loads.
The heavier bullets are supposed to help at distance, and they do. My current max distance is 250yd, not extreme at all. Our club range is a cut swath between stands of trees, and the resultant swirling, gusting winds play utter havoc with precision. My efforts with lighter, faster bullets have proven frustrating; but the heavier ones seem less responsive to those winds.
Greg
I agree with several of the posts. Barrel and load are key, trigger and optics make those keys usable, and ensuring that there are no flaws in the construction and mountings makes troubleshooting simpler, if not actually unnecessary.
I have owned a Colt Match Target AR15, currently own a Stag 6 Super Varminter 24", and also have a CMMG 16 Bull WASP upper. About all these last two have in common is heavyweight barrels.
An earlier reference to the HDY 75gr HPBT Match bullet and around 24gr of Varget sounds familiar. My load is mag length 23.7gr and it works admirably in both uppers, as well as a Savage 11VT, and even a Mossberg MVP Predator. All have 1:9" or 1:8" twists. My optics are Weaver and Bushnell, a Classic V-24, and an AR Optic BDC 3-12x40. The trigger is whatever Stag is using for the Super Varminter, probably their own.
Handloading is a critical asset. Finding a factory load that works is only really valid for that production lot. There are exceptions. but manufacturers use components according to bids and sometimes those components change according to the outcomes of those bids. Corporate realignments have added some stability to that, but the only real way to maintain a consistent load is to develop one for your rifle, make it up in batches yourself, and to verify that load's performance when you suspect a component variance. For such instances, I keep and use an RCBS Collet Bullet Puller (a lot). Following this advice has helped me to get my rifles to shoot far better than they should have a right to shoot. My 24" Stag gives my Savage 24" 11VT a run for its money at 250yd with the same loads.
The heavier bullets are supposed to help at distance, and they do. My current max distance is 250yd, not extreme at all. Our club range is a cut swath between stands of trees, and the resultant swirling, gusting winds play utter havoc with precision. My efforts with lighter, faster bullets have proven frustrating; but the heavier ones seem less responsive to those winds.
Greg
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