Night Vision Tired of trapping

[TRP173]

After reading a lot of this info I'm leaning to the XP 50 because I'm getting tired of trapping these damn Yotes and even more tired of them eating my fawns (pic below).

If my research is correct the XP 50 will serve as a day and night scope, any thoughts / comments would be appreciated as this would be my first NV scope?

This SOB got one of the twins and had to stop for a photo op right in front of one of my trail cameras.

 

[Darryle]

That picture gets around as much as the Heineken looter

 

[jeffl838]

Depending on how far your distances are, you might be better served with the XP38 due to field of view.

 

[Zeroit]

After reading a lot of this info I'm leaning to the XP 50 because I'm getting tired of trapping these damn Yotes and even more tired of them eating my fawns (pic below).

If my research is correct the XP 50 will serve as a day and night scope, any thoughts / comments would be appreciated as this would be my first NV scope?

This SOB got one of the twins and had to stop for a photo op right in front of one of my trail cameras.

View attachment 7299199

Yes, the XP 50 is a good unit.
It has many features, it's more than capable of taking care of your "problem".
A bit of a learning curve to tap into all of its features.
I like the (one shot zero) however it takes me Maybe 3rds.
A few years ago, I was waking up and heard a god awful scream from down in the ravine
Took me about 3 minutes to get down there, pulled a fawn out of the creek, I tried CPR
Didn't work, it had teeth puncture wounds on its neck.
I know they gotta eat part of nature, but I'll
Shoot any I get a chance to.
Right now is the time coyotes are having /had babies,and so are the deer.
Xp 50 is a good enough to see a mouse at distance, or a deer and other hunters that you might not see otherwise as long as they have a visible heat signature.

 

[TRP173]

That picture gets around as much as the Heineken looter

FYI: That picture is mine taken with my Browning trail camera on my property, I did post it here once before. I guess quite a few must like coyotes as much as I do.

 

[TRP173]

Depending on how far your distances are, you might be better served with the XP38 due to field of view.

Jeff, my average will be 100-200 and max of 400. Would you mind telling me the reason you mention the XP 38?
Thanks

 

[TRP173]

Yes, the XP 50 is a good unit.
It has many features, it's more than capable of taking care of your "problem".
A bit of a learning curve to tap into all of its features.
I like the (one shot zero) however it takes me Maybe 3rds.
A few years ago, I was waking up and heard a god awful scream from down in the ravine
Took me about 3 minutes to get down there, pulled a fawn out of the creek, I tried CPR
Didn't work, it had teeth puncture wounds on its neck.
I know they gotta eat part of nature, but I'll
Shoot any I get a chance to.
Right now is the time coyotes are having /had babies,and so are the deer.
Xp 50 is a good enough to see a mouse at distance, or a deer and other hunters that you might not see otherwise as long as they have a visible heat signature.

Z, looking over the description it does have a lot of features and I doubt I'll use most of them just to eliminate some dogs, maybe I going in the wrong direction.

 

[7P's]

I think the XP50 would do you fine. The difference is the 50 is 2X optical while the 38 is 1.2X optical giving you a tad larger field of view. For the money and your needs the XP50 will get it done.

 

[BamaSE]

Thermion or Trail XP50? I do not have experience with the Thermion, but the Trail XP50 was my first thermal and it performed very well. Pluses are the long battery life, picture in picture, and general ease of use. Negative is that if you do some online research you will find multiple well documented cases of this scope not holding zero. I never had that issue with mine, although here in South Alabama we do not have the major temperature changes over a short period of time that seem to be a contributing factor.

 

[NFAJohn]

I was thinking this was going to be a thread where we are tired of trappin to pay for thermals....

Take a look at the nvision 25mm, I have a running review on it. There are a couple halo 25s in the PX section that are priced right around the xp50. I'm very happy with the halo 25mm I purchased and will be getting another one when the time comes for an additional optic.

 

[MarinePMI]

FYI: ModArmory has the Halo on sale...

 

[acudaowner]

Z, looking over the description it does have a lot of features and I doubt I'll use most of them just to eliminate some dogs, maybe I going in the wrong direction.

sorry if its intruding but i noticed the patch and your name were you in the 173rd ? I ask because my father was in in the 68- 71 not that its any deal just figured Id ask

 

[Burning sensation]

Thermal works day or night, everything just looks a little different when the sun is out. I use a Trail XP50 on a regular basis, mostly hunting hogs. You can identify hogs and deer at 500 yards (probably farther, that’s as far as I can see where I hunt), and see raccoons & rabbits at the same distance. I’ve never shot with it past 300 yards, but I’m sure you could do fine at 400. The 1.6 magnification XP50 is really nice when the animals are in close, and I could see the wider field of view of the XP38 being useful. My success rate killing hogs has drastically increased since getting thermal(used a red light before, then an Armasight Zeus), and you should have no trouble knocking over coyotes with it. I do a few here and there, usually when they come to a hog I have on the ground.
The scope is great, their app. is ok, overall I’ve been really happy with Trail XP50.

 

[TRP173]

sorry if its intruding but i noticed the patch and your name were you in the 173rd ? I ask because my father was in in the 68- 71 not that its any deal just figured Id ask

Cuda,
No Problem and yes I was in the 173d 1967-1968, Fun Times.

 

[TRP173]

Thanks to all who responded. The more I research these things the more confused I get.

 

[BamaSE]

Thanks to all who responded. The more I research these things the more confused I get.

There is a lot to consider! And it can be daunting especially given the $$$ involved. Be advised whatever decision you make, your first thermal is like an”gateway drug”, there is always an upgrade or something else you need for a better “fix”?

 

[TRP173]

Thermal works day or night, everything just looks a little different when the sun is out. I use a Trail XP50 on a regular basis, mostly hunting hogs. You can identify hogs and deer at 500 yards (probably farther, that’s as far as I can see where I hunt), and see raccoons & rabbits at the same distance. I’ve never shot with it past 300 yards, but I’m sure you could do fine at 400. The 1.6 magnification XP50 is really nice when the animals are in close, and I could see the wider field of view of the XP38 being useful. My success rate killing hogs has drastically increased since getting thermal(used a red light before, then an Armasight Zeus), and you should have no trouble knocking over coyotes with it. I do a few here and there, usually when they come to a hog I have on the ground.
The scope is great, their app. is ok, overall I’ve been really happy with Trail XP50.

Burn,
You mention 1.6 magnification of the XP50 but they advertise it as 2-16 under optical specs.

 

[Darryle]

FYI: That picture is mine taken with my Browning trail camera on my property, I did post it here once before. I guess quite a few must like coyotes as much as I do.

I am just saying, I have seen it on multiple websites with various captions, not doubting it was yours

 

[Burning sensation]

Burn,
You mention 1.6 magnification of the XP50 but they advertise it as 2-16 under optical specs.

The Trail XP50 is a 1.6X. I think the Thermion XP50 is higher.

 

[TRP173]

It's easier to buy a new truck.

 

[Burning sensation]

Haha, yes it is. I’m sure the normal look of night vision/thermal, like the Trail, will be obsolete soon. Pulsar has the Thermion, and ATN has a similar one too. I like the lower magnification of the Trail because 90% of the hogs I shoot are 100 yards or closer. I hunt in thick South Texas brush. I’m sure the 2X Thermion would work great, I just don’t have a reason to replace my 18 month old Trail.

 

[woodsy]

Don't get paralyzed by the details. At some point you'll need to make a decision and stick with it or forget the whole idea together. Trying to make the perfect choice is gonna drive you nuts.

I believe Pulsar is dropping the Trail line in favor of the Thermions but you still may be able to find one. Using both in XP configuration, battery life goes to the trail and ease of use (and, perhaps, durability) goes to the Thermion. I have not experienced the wandering zero problems in the Trail that some have reported.

There are quite a few good choices and advantages and disadvantages to every unit out there. Yes, do your research but don't get hung up on every little detail because at some point you're just splitting hairs. For example, the debate between the difference of base magnification between the Thermion XP38 & XP50 and which one works best. Really? The difference isn't that great and you will get used to and adapt to whatever you end up with.

 

[jeffl838]

Jeff, my average will be 100-200 and max of 400. Would you mind telling me the reason you mention the XP 38?
Thanks

Field of view is the biggest reason. The base magnification is slightly higher on the XP50. It doesn't sound like a big difference, and it isn't massive, but a lower base magnification is nice if your targets will be up close or if you have a very wide sector to scan.

The digital magnification is fairly usable up to 4 times base magnification I think for newer thermals. If you want to reach out to 400, I think you will probably be better off with the xp50.

I agree with woodsy for the most part about your ability to adapt to your equipment, but if you're stalking through thick brush, the difference between 2 power base mag and 1 power base mag is really big. The difference between the two is also 500 bucks which would fetch you a usable laser if you want to get NVG's eventually...

 

[cropdude]

Is Pulsar coming with a 2nd gen Trail? I recall seeing a video from SHOT where they changed the material in the housing to supposedly help with the zero issues. I would spend the money for a TrailLRF for ranging capability.

 

[MarinePMI]

I'd wonder about he Halo as well. I see the Halo and the Halo-LR suddenly on sale everywhere. Makes me wonder if something new is coming down the pipe from the vendors...

 

[TRP173]

Field of view is the biggest reason. The base magnification is slightly higher on the XP50. It doesn't sound like a big difference, and it isn't massive, but a lower base magnification is nice if your targets will be up close or if you have a very wide sector to scan.

The digital magnification is fairly usable up to 4 times base magnification I think for newer thermals. If you want to reach out to 400, I think you will probably be better off with the xp50.

I agree with woodsy for the most part about your ability to adapt to your equipment, but if you're stalking through thick brush, the difference between 2 power base mag and 1 power base mag is really big. The difference between the two is also 500 bucks which would fetch you a usable laser if you want to get NVG's eventually...

I went to the Pulsar site and I did not find the XP38, was it discontinued?

 

[7P's]

I believe the trail2 will be available sometime this June 2020 - it will have an upgraded sensor, which is always a good thing.

I believe the XP38 was discontinued, as they are sticking with the XP50. Google shot shot 2020, I think there's a video interviewing a Pulsar rep discussing the new 2020 products. Found it for you.

 

[MarinePMI]

Can someone explain why the Halo-LR cost so much more than the Trail XP 50-640?

 

[7P's]

Could be because the Halo LR is competing against the Trijicon Hunter MK3 60mm.

 

[TRP173]

XP38 discontinued @ 19:33 on the video

 

[Burning sensation]

Some may not agree, but an advantage the Thermion has over the Trail is the mounting. I hated the factory mount, and bought a Zro Delta immediately for my Trail. I do like the idea of being able to use 30mm rings of my choice to mount a Thermion.

 

[Nicholas Borne]

New Thermion XP50 owner here and brand new to thermal in general. Used it this weekend, but I didn't find any hogs. I was impressed by the clarity. I was able to identify raccoons at 230yds with impressive clarity. I'm hoping this thread keeps going with XP50 info cause I have a steep learning curve.

 

[TRP173]

Nick, I hope you keep us up to speed with your new toy. Thanks

 

[cropdude]

Some may not agree, but an advantage the Thermion has over the Trail is the mounting. I hated the factory mount, and bought a Zro Delta immediately for my Trail. I do like the idea of being able to use 30mm rings of my choice to mount a Thermion.

There is no LRF on the thermion correct? Hunting with thermals without ranging capability I think would be pretty tough unless you soley hunted in areas with sub 150 yard targets.

 

[Nicholas Borne]

There is no LRF on the thermion correct? Hunting with thermals without ranging capability I think would be pretty tough unless you soley hunted in areas with sub 150 yard targets.

Correct. The Thermion XP50 does not have a LRF. The Trail has some LRF options. The places I plan to use it, I already know the basic distances. I'm more about "MOH" minute of hog currently. Once I get more comfortable with the unit I'll try to refine my zero. I zeroed at 50 yds with .300BO 125 gr supers then when shot reduced IPSC steel from 100-200 and got first round hits so I'm happy so far.

SIDE NOTE for anyone starting to research for buying the Thermion: The pamphlet it comes with does NOT go into detail about contrast/gain and all the possible dropdowns in it. Foxoptic.com has the about the only technical type videos I've seen so far (zero and update/app connection). The rest are just pretty much hog killing which is fun to watch, but doesn't get you anywhere.

 

[deersniper]

There is no LRF on the thermion correct? Hunting with thermals without ranging capability I think would be pretty tough unless you soley hunted in areas with sub 150 yard targets.

? You can use a mid range zero and be good to a lot farther than 150. Especially with something flat like 22-250, 95gr 6.5cm etc

 

[7P's]

I think a 22-250 sighted in at 200 yards will be about 1/2” high at 50 yards, about 1.25-1.5” high at 100 yards, dead on at 200 yards and about 2 inches low at 300 yards - with a 52 to 55 grain bullet. One would need to look in a reloading manual to get the right poop for your bullet taking into account velocity at the muzzle - but the aforementioned is my recall at the moment.

 

[cropdude]

I get it, but I still think in the pitch black that knowing the range would be important. Especially with a BO.

 

[deersniper]

If by BO you mean 300 BLK. Yeah throw a radius on top. The Leupold 300 specific scope helps too.

 

[Burning sensation]

The Thermion and my Trail (non-LRF) have their “stadiametric” (tell it how big the object is, it estimates the distance) range finder, which I have heard is an ok range estimator. I keep saying I’m going to try it just to see how it works, but I have not. Mine only has options for elk, hog, and rabbit, I think. I would think a coyote option would be more used than the rabbit, but that’s just me.
Where I hunt I honestly do not think I would use the LFR much if I had one. I have long, narrow clearings I cut that are 500 yards long, and I know how far the animals are if they come into the clearings. I usually sneak up close if it’s dark.
My range estimation has been off (20-30 yards) several times when I was away from the clearings. It’s always been a big hog that was farther away than I thought because I thought it was smaller. I currently night hunt with an AR15 in 30 wssm, and my errors have not yet been enough to lose an animal. The same was true when I used a 6.8SPC2. If I hunted in open areas I would put an LRF to use. I also probably would if I used a 300bo, as Cropdude stated.

 

[Aescobar17]

I use my LRF all the time on coyotes. A lot of times they’ll only pop their heads up when coming to a call and not give the largest target. In that case you’ve got to be a lot more precise than if they presented a full body shot. On hogs I don’t use the LRF as much to shoot, but I do use it when stalking quite a bit. We hung some wheat fields that 3-4K acres, and it can be pretty decieving if they’re 400 yds out or 800. Depending on the wind we figure out our best approach.

 

[Burning sensation]

The LRF makes a lot of sense in a field. I need to work on finding a bigger place to hunt on. Below from last night is a little closer than I usually get when they’re in my clearing, but the point is the same. It’s an easy shot, much easier than a coyote sticking his head out.

 

[Nicholas Borne]

The LRF makes a lot of sense in a field. I need to work on finding a bigger place to hunt on. Below from last night is a little closer than I usually get when they’re in my clearing, but the point is the same. It’s an easy shot, much easier than a coyote sticking his head out.
View attachment 7306600

Nice. What unit are you running?

 

[Nicholas Borne]

Head shots were at 50yds. Second pic is at 215yds First shot low was using center mass hold. I held first dot high chest for next 2 shots. No clue if it’s an actual MIL or not for the reticle I was using. Thermion XP50 on JP 16” .300BO 125 supers.

 

[Burning sensation]

Nice. What unit are you running?

A Trail XP50. I‘m way behind and just downloaded their newest firmware update, and there is a big improvement in the image quality, at least up close. A pig at 100 yards or more is still a glowing silhouette. I’m pretty sure I could improve that by tinkering with the settings more. I’ve heard the Thermion is better so I’m a little jealous of the guys that have them.

 

[Burning sensation]

This one is at about 70 yards. Not quite the detail as up close, but it works. Deersniper & Borne, I like your rigs. I keep saying I’m going to put together something shorter, but my go to AR still has a 22” barrel and a 9” can hanging off the end.

 

[Old_Red]

My family has raised cattle since at 1350 and as far as I know of we never lost a calf to a coyote. I cow or heifer won't take care of her calf well enough to keep coyotes off I'm not feeding her enough or their the wrong kind of cattle.

Sheep, goat, chickens and and such are all together a different deal. They just the right size for coyotes to ea

I didn't have deer before 1980. Now the places they cross the wheat fields only make half as much wheat as the rest of field where the nibble on maturing wheat. They don't.eat much but they cost me a lot more than coyotes.


I have hunted, trapped and chased coyotes with dogs day and night since 1955. Once I was awfully good at it. Talking with a couple guys that made their living killing coyotes and other troublesome critters Including the last Jaguar trapped near Graham Texas in 1945 poisoning them with Cyanide or 1080 was the only man could make a serious dent in coyote populations without natures help from disease or parasites.

 

[MarinePMI]

Don't quite follow everything you're saying but yes, you have to kill a lot of coyotes to make a dent. According to studies, like 70% of a population has to be killed off to affect it. The bitches' litter sizes are determined by how much protein she is eating before she goes into heat. More protein, bigger litters. Less protein, smaller litters. Less coyotes in a given area means more available protein.

And the only thing that will kill coyotes on sight, are wolves. And that's a whole other conversation/debate...

 

[woodsy]

A Trail XP50. I‘m way behind and just downloaded their newest firmware update, and there is a big improvement in the image quality, at least up close. A pig at 100 yards or more is still a glowing silhouette. I’m pretty sure I could improve that by tinkering with the settings more. I’ve heard the Thermion is better so I’m a little jealous of the guys that have them.

You're not giving up a lot with the Trail as compared to the Thermion. I like how the Thermion mounts and like the controls better but battery life is a big downside. You'll get much more run time afield with the Trail. The only zero shift that I've seen in the Trail is related to updates. They do seem to be a little affected by temp so I wonder if guys that have wandering zero problems are sighting in during the summer and then seeing it change during winter? I dunno.

 

[Burning sensation]

You're not giving up a lot with the Trail as compared to the Thermion. I like how the Thermion mounts and like the controls better but battery life is a big downside. You'll get much more run time afield with the Trail. The only zero shift that I've seen in the Trail is related to updates. They do seem to be a little affected by temp so I wonder if guys that have wandering zero problems are sighting in during the summer and then seeing it change during winter? I dunno.

I’m just recently hearing the battery life on the Thermion is not as good, but I would be ok most of the time. I usually turn the scope on, scan, then it’s off for 3-4 minutes. The exception is when I’m calling, then I’m constantly scanning.
I have not had any issues with my zero wandering, Winter or Summer. Hondo Texas has not gotten below about 15 degrees that I’ve seen, and is 90 at most at night, usually lower. I’m curious if zero shifting problems with temp change have anything to do with the factory mounts. I replaced mine immediately. I did hear from a Pulsar rep that one previous update threw zero setting off. The last one did not on mine.
I took over an XQ50 from an acquaintance, so between that and the XP50 I got new, I’m sticking with the Trails for a while.