TL3 vs Ruckus, hunting rifle build.

[Ckleeves]

Looking for some opinions here. In the process of getting parts for a new elk rifle build. Im kinda down to these two actions although I’m open to others if anybody has other suggestions.

I want to be able to use Proof prefits, more then likely going to go with 300 prc just because I already have dies, brass etc for my other much heavier PRC.

I know what I’m getting with Defiance, don’t have any complaints with their actions but I’m always open to trying something different. I have never owned a Bighorn/Zermatt. It would be fed out of Hawkins hunter mags with the Hawkins hunter DBM if I went the TL3 route. I read a lot about short action TL3’s but never see much on their long actions.

Thoughts?

 

[Zhomeguy]

I built a 300 PRC on a Lone Peak action. Smooth as Butta and used a Proof Carbon, total build just an Oz or two over 8lbs....
If your lookn for a bit different but tight tolerances try a Lone Peak, that said I'm generally a Defiance Action guy myself.

 

[Ckleeves]

Ya I have had a few Lone Peaks. Nice actions for sure. I think Proof just started LP prefits so that is another option.

 

[S3th]

I had a hunting rifle built on an LPA. Sold it. My Defiance Anti-X will be here Thursday; running a Proof Ruckus Prefit Carbon.

 

[Superjet]

If building a hunting rifle I would build off of an Origin.

 

[Ckleeves]

The Nitraded Defiance’s are slick no doubt. I love the one I have, zero complaints. I just see a lot of praise for Zermatt and was curious if I was missing out on something.

 

[Matt_3479]

It’s personal preference. Something about a control round feed on a hunting rifle that gives me some ease, as well as a mechanical ejector. Less parts to break, and guarantee to feed. The bighorns are smooth, super smooth, but they do bind slightly. It’s funny I only ever bind it when dry fire practice and never in live fire. Only time it happens in dry fire practice is when switching from one of my other customs
To it and it happens maybe 1-3 times in the first 15 then don’t happen again.

Hard to argue with defiance as well though. Classic, sexy, and super reputable. That said I’ve also read or heard about more failures with a defiance in extreme conditions then with bighorn (never heard it). That said it’s not a common occurrence but it has been known.

I had a hunting rifle built on an LPA. Sold it. My Defiance Anti-X will be here Thursday; running a Proof Ruckus Prefit Carbon.

Why did you sell it? Didn’t like the lone peak or have issues with it?

 

[S3th]

It’s personal preference. Something about a control round feed on a hunting rifle that gives me some ease, as well as a mechanical ejector. Less parts to break, and guarantee to feed. The bighorns are smooth, super smooth, but they do bind slightly. It’s funny I only ever bind it when dry fire practice and never in live fire. Only time it happens in dry fire practice is when switching from one of my other customs
To it and it happens maybe 1-3 times in the first 15 then don’t happen again.

Hard to argue with defiance as well though. Classic, sexy, and super reputable. That said I’ve also read or heard about more failures with a defiance in extreme conditions then with bighorn (never heard it). That said it’s not a common occurrence but it has been known.



Why did you sell it? Didn’t like the lone peak or have issues with it?

I experienced some issues with it (turned out to be the TT issue) and found customer service to be subpar. Additionally, I didn't go the titanium route so the rifle came in heavier than what I wanted. Anti-X checks off every box; steel, light, integrated rail, and nitrided.

 

[Matt_3479]

I experienced some issues with it (turned out to be the TT issue) and found customer service to be subpar. Additionally, I didn't go the titanium route so the rifle came in heavier than what I wanted. Anti-X checks off every box; steel, light, integrated rail, and nitrided.

Fair enough. Thank you. There isn’t a bunch about lone peak, but every time I do stumble across them there is nothing but praise for them. wanting to try one myself. Prefer hearing the negatives anyways, gives you a better idea of what could happen.

 

[S3th]

Fair enough. Thank you. There isn’t a bunch about lone peak, but every time I do stumble across them there is nothing but praise for them. wanting to try one myself. Prefer hearing the negatives anyways, gives you a better idea of what could happen.

Worth mentioning, the action arrived covered in some type of sticky gel and the bolt had significant wear on the nitride. I found both to be very strange... sticky gel took about 30 minutes to clean off. Either way, Defiance & Terminus are my go-to now. Anti-X will be here Thursday... hopefully, no sticky gel lol.

 

[Wyfox]

I have both on hunting builds and really do prefer my Defiance, it just runs like butter. Nothing against the Bighorn, its a great reliable action just personal preference. I have contemplated selling the TL3 and building the same gun on a AntiX.
The Bighorn has more options when it comes to swapping calibers such as swappable bolt heads, controlled round fed, Savage threads, etc

Just an FYI if you do decide on the Bighorn, you'll want the SR3. The TL3 is only for DBM and the SR3 has Rem style feed lips for BDL.

 

[Matt_3479]

Worth mentioning, the action arrived covered in some type of sticky gel and the bolt had significant wear on the nitride. I found both to be very strange... sticky gel took about 30 minutes to clean off. Either way, Defiance & Terminus are my go-to now. Anti-X will be here Thursday... hopefully, no sticky gel lol.

Thank you.
I appreciate that. On a bit of a personal thing trying as many actions as possible. Currently have stiller, kelbly, tl3, deviant, impact, Zeus, had vector, ks sar, surgeon. So next is falkor and impact

 

[Totoro]

Flip a coin, either will be a great foundation for a build.

Like others, I have owned and built quite a few rifles using various actions.

My current battery include Defiance, Kelbly and Stiller.

 

[b6graham]

Zermatt

But the current sale makes a Mausingfield or Archimedes a really attractive option

 

[anotherwannabe]

I just assembled a ruckas plus proof prefit for a buddy.

I can’t say I was super impressed with the fit/finish on the Ruckas versus Bats and borden’s i more regularly work with.

Nothing that functionally is an issue, just little stuff like the trigger pins “fell in” versus needing to be tapped in. The proof prefit didn’t clock “right” for their markings to line up either. The ruckas was pretty smooth and cocked without a big hitch, but it was bare and I definitely would have liked it nitrided instead.

The machine work on the proof did look good, better than I expected for chamber and threads on the borescope honestly. So I’m not sure who is in the wrong about it clocking a little wonkey. The barrel headspace sat sammi +.002 so within expectations there.

Just some food for thought - I don’t have any TL3 experience.

 

[Secant]

I experienced some issues with it (turned out to be the TT issue) and found customer service to be subpar. Additionally, I didn't go the titanium route so the rifle came in heavier than what I wanted. Anti-X checks off every box; steel, light, integrated rail, and nitrided.

Pretty surprised to hear the comment about customer service. I needed an extractor spring for my LPA SS s/a. Sent an inquiry on their website asking if I could purchase a couple or if they could point me in the right direction. The Owner gave me a call a couple hours later, sent me two springs for free and a hat. I was basically begging him to let me pay, haha. Super nice guy.

 

[Ckleeves]

That doesn’t surprise me about the Proof not clocking right. I’m not sure because I have only seen a few but it almost seems like they (proof) don’t really care where the markings end up. It even says on their site that they aren’t guaranteed to clock right. I guess it doesn’t bother me, the engraving is so shallow that cerakote pretty much hides it completely. That being said the ones I have shoot absolutely lights out.

 

[Chargerguy]

I sold off a couple TL3s and replaced them with SR3s with the Wyatts extended mag cuts. I feel the SR3 does everything the TL3 does but provides that one extra option (the Wyatt’s extended box). The only thing you’re really giving up with the SR3 over the TL3 is the pinned rail and also get the more open ejection port (not my preference though). I built two 28 noslers out of them. One with a PVA prefit the other a benchmark chambered by benchmark with my reamer throated for the 195 Berger. I like the idea of being able to use the CFE-12 Wyatts box with a 3.830” internal length, or MBE-3 with a 3.825” internal length which provides more room than a CIP 3.850” mag, which from memory I believe had a max COAL around 3.770”. Currently running an APA M5 DBM with CIP 3 round mag though because I’m waiting on a Hawkins M5 Oberndorf BDL bottom metal.

 

[anotherwannabe]

That doesn’t surprise me about the Proof not clocking right. I’m not sure because I have only seen a few but it almost seems like they (proof) don’t really care where the markings end up. It even says on their site that they aren’t guaranteed to clock right. I guess it doesn’t bother me, the engraving is so shallow that cerakote pretty much hides it completely. That being said the ones I have shoot absolutely lights out.

Yup - didn’t even look to see if defiance guarantees clocking. Maybe not

 

[4thandbleek]

Lone peak arms and Kelbly's actions look sweet.

 

[Yoteski]

Bighorns for me. Bolt binding is not an issue if you run the bolt like it should be ran; fast. Part of the reason the bolt can bind if you're running it like a princess is because there is planned tolerance there to allow it to run when dirty.
Defiance actions are definitely nice and have a unique clockwork feel to them. When it comes to field performance, the features on the Bighorn make them subjectively a more reliable action.

 

[Mrindecisive]

Worth mentioning, the action arrived covered in some type of sticky gel and the bolt had significant wear on the nitride. I found both to be very strange... sticky gel took about 30 minutes to clean off. Either way, Defiance & Terminus are my go-to now. Anti-X will be here Thursday... hopefully, no sticky gel lol.

So how is the anti-x?

 

[S3th]

So how is the anti-x?

Looks really good, smooth without binding, light AF (mine came in at 22.7oz). Bolt lift is noticeably heavier than others but that is due to the shorter handle/small hollowed-out knob. You can request the larger version which I may do but likely won't as this is a hunting rifle and won't see the round count other rifles will. Overall, I would buy again for another hunting rifle build.

*0 rounds on it ... need more time to develop a full opinion but I like what I see for the purpose.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I have 2 Zermatt actions and I love em both. Never had any issue with any binding. The throw is ideal and they run very smooth. I keep em pretty clean so I don't know how they run dirty. Had em in a few different chassis and honestly they just work really well. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another Origin or TL3. The only reason I'd even consider any other action is to gain a true quick change but even that isn't all that appealing to me.

 

[Matt_3479]

I have 2 Zermatt actions and I love em both. Never had any issue with any binding. The throw is ideal and they run very smooth. I keep em pretty clean so I don't know how they run dirty. Had em in a few different chassis and honestly they just work really well. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another Origin or TL3. The only reason I'd even consider any other action is to gain a true quick change but even that isn't all that appealing to me.

I’d love to get my hands on another personally, as I hear some are little worse then others with the binding. If I run any of my other actions then move back to the tl3 it is the worst binding action I’ve ever felt. But if I start with it and shoot all day I never notice it lol. It’s getting to the point I’d debate on selling it, if my barrel wasn’t so accurate I probably would

 

[jda2631]

I have 2 TL3 long actions and 2 TL3 short actions currently. I love them. Highly recommend. My long action hunting gun is TL3, Proof 28 Nosler, running CIP length AICS mags and run a COAL of 3.730" (They may do this standard now, but just talk to Zermatt, used to you would have to let them know when you ordered the action if it was gonna be a CIP length cartridge and they would alter the feed ramp to make sure you had no issues with the longer cartridge). But Zermatt makes great stuff and their customer service is top notch.

 

[Ocean_Dweller]

If building a hunting rifle I would build off of an Origin.

This is what I would do as well. I have an Origin, TL3 (long), Deviant, Tenacity, Atlas Tactical and IMO the engineering on the Bighorn actions is superior. Now that the Origins are made out of stainless steel, really the only thing you are giving up is the integrated recoil lug which isn't really that necessary. The Defiance is a little smoother but gives up too much to the Bighorns mechanically, especially for a hunting rifle.

One thing I do recommend if you go the Bighorn route and order from the factory, is to send them your trigger for them to time it. It's a free service and and definitely worth doing.