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Rifle Scopes To lap or not??

K

Killbox Alpha

Silenced America
Commercial Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 15, 2010
300
0
46
North Texas
#1
Do you gentlemen lap zero gap rings? I am looking at purchasing a NF and wanted to know if anyone laps these rings or is there even a need to? This will be my first higher end scope so I'm not sure what everyone usually does..

Thanks
 
#2
Re: To lap or not??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kill Box ALPHA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you gentlemen lap zero gap rings? </div></div>

What are zero gap rings?
 
#3
Re: To lap or not??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fw707</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kill Box ALPHA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you gentlemen lap zero gap rings? </div></div>

What are zero gap rings?</div></div>

http://www.barrett.net/optics/zero-gap
 
#4
Re: To lap or not??

I haven't yet, but have only run Seekins or Badger USMC's. This is sort of like the barrel cleaning thread, many do, many don't. If you feel the need, or extra piece of mind, do it. If you're afraid of ring marks man, just make sure you don't over torque them..and of course, under torque them.
 
#5
Re: To lap or not??

I guess there is a certain level of reassurance that comes with lapping them. This will be my first high end scope/rifle I wanted to be sure and do it right the first time.
 
#7
Re: To lap or not??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TBannister</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Buy Seekins, dont lap, no dented tube. </div></div>

Are you not supposed to lap seekins? I've always been told to lap in order to help align the rings more so than any other reason.
 
#8
Re: To lap or not??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kill Box ALPHA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess there is a certain level of reassurance that comes with lapping them. This will be my first high end scope/rifle I wanted to be sure and do it right the first time. </div></div>

I've never used the zero gap rings, but I've got at least 5 sets of Seekins bases and rings.
I've never lapped a Seekins ring, and I've never put a mark on 5 different NF scopes, and 3 Zeiss and Leupold 1" tube scopes.
 
#9
Re: To lap or not??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kill Box ALPHA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you gentlemen lap zero gap rings? I am looking at purchasing a NF and wanted to know if anyone laps these rings or is there even a need to? This will be my first higher end scope so I'm not sure what everyone usually does..

Thanks </div></div>
The manufacturers of the higher end rings, ie: TPS which I have, NF, badger, leupold say it's not needed and it voids the warranty. I do lap the cheaper rings such as the dovetail type.
 
#10
Re: To lap or not??

<span style="font-size: 20pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">LAP YOUR RINGS!!!</span></span>

It is Unbelievable how many $1000+ Optics I see for sale on The Hide with Ring marks. Part of a Lapping Kit is a set of Alignment Rods. I use the alignment rods just to get an idea of how close the rings align.

Torque the rings to the rail with a quality torque wrench. A lot of rings indicate a slightly smaller diameter at the points where the Rings seperate and these points are visible as damage on most scopes in the Classifieds section of this site.

I even lap One Piece Mounts (UniMounts) just to confirm my Optic is safe. Perfectly aligned rings show that quality very quickly meaning: Very little lapping is required - Stop! At least you know! The toughest part of the lapping process is removing the compound from the rings once lapping is complete.

MidwayUSA has affordable kits for 1-in and 30-mm Optics. Sinclair Intl. (Brownells) also offers a nice scope lapping kit.

<span style="font-size: 20pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">LAP YOUR RINGS!</span></span>

AnschutzNerd
 
#13
Re: To lap or not??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: heatseekins</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Never lapped any myself. I never felt the need to make the scope rings oversize and un-round like most lapping i have seen done. </div></div>


Glenn, maybe you can verify my thought on this.

The other day on another forum there was a similar topic. I speculated that the higher quality rings may be designed to retain a perfect fit only once torqued to a proper spec. So lapping quality rings may actually do more harm because you can not lap the rings when clamped down to spec.

If there is a miss alignment or a poorly finished out of round surface I know lapping a ring set can help with hold and marking the tube. But with quality parts it should never be necessary, just my thought.
 
#14
Re: To lap or not??

I was always of the belief that if you purchase quality rings (Badger, TPS, Seekins, NF, etc) and you have <span style="font-weight: bold">properly bedded your scope base</span>, <span style="font-style: italic">then lapping is completely unnecessary</span>.

Lapping is generally used to band-aid some other uncorrected problem like an out-of-spec scope base, poor scope base installation, out-of-spec receiver, etc.

I generally prefer NOT to lap my scope rings and properly bed my scope bases instead.
 
#16
Re: To lap or not??

Just a thought.
Maybe the EDM manufactured rings are in good alignment, but the base or the rail are off...so the lapping may compensate for the former or the latter...I am not a machinist but there are those here who could clarifiy it.
 
#17
Re: To lap or not??

My personnal opinion. (for the most part i agree with Glen)

If you are using a Remington factory reciever and/or 2 piece scope bases it might be a good idea to lap the rings so that they are aligned. If you are using a quality 1 piece base and rings, or a custom action with integral rail no lapping necessary (most of them are about perfect). If you are using an affordable base and rings and want to take all the guess work out then bed your rings in epoxy. There is no insurance that a lapping bar is perfectly straight (or your scope tube for that matter). Epoxy bedding eliminates all the variables and gives you a perfect stress free scope to ring fit.

I use good rings and have an integral rail and torque all the screws to recommended specs. There have been very very faint scuffing ring marks only on some of my scopes (i think this is probably more from me setting the scope in the rings then adjusting the eye relief). I think people make a bigger deal out of this than is needed. The only time i worry about "ring marks" is when im buying a used scope. Are they there because the guy overtightened the rings and deformed the main tube (which can cause tracking problems) or because of light scuffing from the sharp edges of the rings? I personnally don't think a little light scuffing is a big deal. And my scopes track and retain zero.

.02
 
#18
Re: To lap or not??

On a one piece rail I think it is more important to bed the base to the receiver, the good quality rings will be on. I have seen some 2 piece bases on some commerical actions the the rings were off and I did lap them.

Ken
 
#19
Re: To lap or not??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jtb33</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Lapping is generally used to band-aid some other uncorrected problem like an out-of-spec scope base, poor scope base installation, out-of-spec receiver, etc.

</div></div>

This is very true IMO. You can buy the nicest rings and mount available and they can be perfectly straight. But if your receiver is not straight then your base will bend when you tighten it down making everything else out of alignment.

I have found lapping actually causes worse ring marks than not lapping. I lapped several sets of rings a few years back. All the scopes that were in those rings had slight ring marks. Since I have started bedding my bases and using alignment bars to make sure everything is square and have not used a lapping bar. I have not had ring marks sense.

So to be like the guy above, I say. <span style="font-size: 20pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">DO NOT LAP YOUR RINGS!!!</span></span>
 
#20
Re: To lap or not??

Nuff said
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: heatseekins</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Never lapped any myself. I never felt the need to make the scope rings oversize and un-round like most lapping i have seen done. </div></div>
 
#22
Re: To lap or not??

I think it helps to do the final torque on the cap screws before doing the final torque on the clamp screws.
At least it seems to work on the Seekins stuff.
 
#24
Re: To lap or not??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TBannister</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nuff said
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: heatseekins</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Never lapped any myself. I never felt the need to make the scope rings oversize and un-round like most lapping i have seen done. </div></div> </div></div>

What he said
 
#25
Re: To lap or not?? Benchrest guys

LAP THOSE RINGS

Successful benchrest shooters attend to <span style="font-style: italic">EVERY</span> detail of shooting and lapping scope rings is one of them.

>A Picatinny rail is likely to be very straight - until it's mounted, when it can warp slightly on a not-perfectly straight, flat reciever top.

>Scope rings are seldom perfectly round, even from the best manufacturers or from lot to lot.

>Your torquing of mounting screws, even with the proper rotation of tightening, can be unequal, putting uneven pressure on the tube unless you use a small torque wrench. Do you really have one?

An expensive scope costing several thousand dollars is expensive becuse it is a PRECISION instrument with excellent alignment of lenses, adjusting mechanisms and reticles. Bending a good scope, even a few thousands of an inch, will, over time, cause some misalignment internally.

The scope-to-rifle "interface" is of utmost importance. I sugest using engineers' blueing to check for even ring contact with the scope.



 
#26
Re: To lap or not?? Benchrest guys

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: litehiker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LAP THOSE RINGS

>A Picatinny rail is likely to be very straight - until it's mounted, when it can warp slightly on a not-perfectly straight, flat reciever top. </div></div>
And that's why you're supposed to bed your scope base - to avoid that very thing.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
>Scope rings are seldom perfectly round, even from the best manufacturers or from lot to lot.</div></div>
I think that some manufacturers here would beg to differ on that statement.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
>Your torquing of mounting screws, even with the proper rotation of tightening, can be unequal, putting uneven pressure on the tube unless you use a small torque wrench. Do you really have one?</div></div>
Yep; use a torque wrench. No problem here.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

An expensive scope costing several thousand dollars is expensive becuse it is a PRECISION instrument with excellent alignment of lenses, adjusting mechanisms and reticles. Bending a good scope, even a few thousands of an inch, will, over time, cause some misalignment internally.

</div></div>

Which is why you should bed your scope base and purchase quality bases and rings that are manufactured with precision tolerances. Lapping rings is a crutch and a band-aid for other problems that have not been properly addressed. Lapping has its place (typically among two-piece scope bases), but I cannot find any reason for most people to lap rings when they buy quality equipment and install it correctly.
 
#27
Re: To lap or not?? Benchrest guys

I have a set of Seekins rings on my U.S. Optics and have not lapped them, they have not left any marks. I also use an ADM Recon on a Leupold M3A, it has left no marks. On the other end of the spectrum, I have used cheap weaver 2 piece bases with cheap weaver rings on a Shepherd scope I once used, they also left no marks or dents. I agree with the majority, just use quality parts and you will not have an issue.
 
#28
Re: To lap or not??

The different methods are real interesting.

I've used the alignment rods and lapped, but only after using a tad of metal high spot dye to determine what the contact area of the scope and mount would be.
If not enough contact to suit me, lap and recheck with the high spot until I can call it good. High spot cleans up with alcohol except on skin or other porous surfaces.
 
#30
Re: To lap or not??

A question to those of you who bed the base and don't lap the rings:

Do you find that good rings on a well bedded quality base are already aligned? If they were still out of alignment, would you then lap the rings or would you never lap?
 
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