To mix Lapua brass lots or not

[NodakBarbarian]

I have two different lots of Lapua 6.5 Creedmoor brass that have both been 3x fired from the same rifle. Both lots have been neck turned before the first firing and necks measured the same neck thickness after 3 firings. Can I mix these two lots of brass and not see noticeable results at distance?? I’m tired of keeping them separate and only processing 100 at a time, especially when tumbling.

 

[Tchitcherine]

Is there any difference in how your load performs depending on what lot brass is used?
Or, similarly, is there any difference in your brass prep or other loading process to make them perform the same?

 

[Another Casual]

Sounds like a good opportunity for a side by side test. Same load in both brass. Shoot groups with each, shoot a few groups half and half, average them out.

Whether there's a difference that matters will depend on you and your standards for accuracy. Lots of guys would say to not mix, but if you can still achieve your goals with mixed, why not?

 

[NodakBarbarian]

Loading process is always the same. Haven’t noticed a difference between lots, but haven’t tested them closely at long range. I’m wondering if people have first hand experience.

 

[spife7980]

I wouldnt, even when I have a large lot I still keep each set of 100 pieces that go in the same box segregated from the other boxes.

 

[Pete B]

Most people I know that went down the rabbit warren of splitting hairs in the reloading room eventually went "fuck it"..... Lived a much happier life and saw no difference by doing so. Same quality brand, mix away.
You would have to have your shit so sorted in so, so many other area's to ever have a chance of seeing any difference, and likely still wouldn't.
Regards
Pete

 

[NodakBarbarian]

Most people I know that went down the rabbit warren of splitting hairs in the reloading room eventually went "fuck it"..... Lived a much happier life and saw no difference by doing so. Same quality brand, mix away.
You would have to have your shit so sorted in so, so many other area's to ever have a chance of seeing any difference, and likely still wouldn't.
Regards
Pete

I’d say I hold pretty tight tolerances all around the board by using high quality components and checking runout at each stage along the way. I don’t want to use up valuable barrel life by getting a sample size significant enough to have a decent level of certainty in the results. I’m hoping someone has done this already in the past, when components where plentiful and less expensive.

 

[CNC-Dude]

What kind of groups are you shooting now with all the neck turning and segregation so far?

 

[Yoteski]

I haven't noticed enough change across lots or even firings to worry about it. I guess it really depends on what game you're playing. Regular matches? I've really became "streamlined," i.e. don't give a f@&k near as much as I used to because it hasn't had any effect on my scores. More shooting equals better scores. It's easier to shoot more when the reloading process is streamlined.

 

[TxWelder35]

Is the velocity, ES/SD the same in between each lot with the same load? If yes then I would mix them and not think twice

 

[NodakBarbarian]

What kind of groups are you shooting now with all the neck turning and segregation so far?

.30MOA average

 

[NodakBarbarian]

I haven't noticed enough change across lots or even firings to worry about it. I guess it really depends on what game you're playing. Regular matches? I've really became "streamlined," i.e. don't give a f@&k near as much as I used to because it hasn't had any effect on my scores. More shooting equals better scores. It's easier to shoot more when the reloading process is streamlined.

I shoot regular matches but also shoot local club matches that have animal silhouette’s that have 15 pt bullseyes with -5 pt area merely 2 inches below that.

 

[NodakBarbarian]

Is the velocity, ES/SD the same in between each lot with the same load? If yes then I would mix them and not think twice

With limited testing the SD range was within 3 but I would need to test that further.

 

[n0glock]

I am not nearly as anal as some with my reloading but. I would take 10 cases from each lot, mark the base with 2 different color sharpies then load them in the same run and shoot them for groups, if the mixed loads shoot as well as your sorted brass you have your answer if not easy to split the brass back up.

 

[CNC-Dude]

I am not nearly as anal as some with my reloading but. I would take 10 cases from each lot, mark the base with 2 different color sharpies then load them in the same run and shoot them for groups, if the mixed loads shoot as well as your sorted brass you have your answer if not easy to split the brass back up.

That's what I was as going to suggest. Just try a few to verify and see if it does make a difference.

 

[Expert684]

Weigh them!

 

[Fig]

I have never found a noticeable/measurable difference. If it makes you happy go for it, but you're not going to get me to believe it is delivering a single additional impact for you.

 

[NodakBarbarian]

I have never found a noticeable/measurable difference. If it makes you happy go for it, but you're not going to get me to believe it is delivering a single additional impact for you.

I’m concerned about it affecting group size, like say going from .3 MOA to .5 MOA.

 

[NodakBarbarian]

I am not nearly as anal as some with my reloading but. I would take 10 cases from each lot, mark the base with 2 different color sharpies then load them in the same run and shoot them for groups, if the mixed loads shoot as well as your sorted brass you have your answer if not easy to split the brass back up.

I’m going to sharpie the bullets up to the bearing surface and shoot 10 from each lot alternating each shot between the two lots in two 10 shot strings at 800 yards over my chronograph. Then compare group size, POI, and SD/ES.

 

[Fig]

That would be/could be an impact. I disagree.

I used to separate lots, and I buy 500 or 600 pieces at once, so it's not a big deal. After three or four full cycles of running the brass till the primer pockets start to give, I started to mix it up with no effects..

 

[Fig]

You may find the BR guys claiming that same lots along with weighing and sorting will get them .1 or so, but even that's a stretch in my mind. In their world that's quite a bit though...

I think you will get more precision out of weighing and sorting your bullets than you will the brass. Worrying about the same brass from different lots would be near the bottom of my list of things to wring more precision out of your rifle. However, I've done way more pointless shit in my pursuit of precision, so give it a go. It will probably only cost you some time.

 

[CNC-Dude]

I've just started using Lapua brass myself in my RPR 6.5 Creedmoor. Previously used Hornady. As long as the Hornady brass was within 3 to 4 grains of weight, my groups stayed all within 2-6 SD and MOA never fluctuated and was consistent high .3's to low .4's. The Lapua is much closer on their weight spread. So as long as you stayed with the same weight within a given +/-, I doubt you'd see much variation if any.

 

[NodakBarbarian]

You may find the BR guys claiming that same lots along with weighing and sorting will get them .1 or so, but even that's a stretch in my mind. In their world that's quite a bit though...

I think you will get more precision out of weighing and sorting your bullets than you will the brass. Worrying about the same brass from different lots would be near the bottom of my list of things to wring more precision out of your rifle. However, I've done way more pointless shit in my pursuit of precision, so give it a go. It will probably only cost you some time.

I am hoping the test I run will prove you right. I shoot 144 Berger LRHT's and they're so consistent I don't bother sorting them. I've read that most brass weight fluctuations come from the thickness of the case head which doesn't effect much if anything when it comes to accuracy. If I was going to weigh brass it would be to find the internal volume, something I'm not going to do though.

The whole point of this post was that I was hoping people had ran tests, like I'm going to do tomorrow, and chime in.

 

[NodakBarbarian]

That would be/could be an impact. I disagree.

I used to separate lots, and I buy 500 or 600 pieces at once, so it's not a big deal. After three or four full cycles of running the brass till the primer pockets start to give, I started to mix it up with no effects..

What kind of shooting did you do with those brass? You couldn't notice any SD/ES difference or grouping with the mixed lots?

 

[Fig]

PRS, nope. I get tight enough speeds to shoot out to 1,500 where my 6X47L goes subsonic and it all falls apart, but inside that it makes no difference by my reckoning.

 

[NodakBarbarian]

PRS, nope. I get tight enough speeds to shoot out to 1,500 where my 6X47L goes subsonic and it all falls apart, but inside that it makes no difference by my reckoning.

I hope my tests show the same. What kind of SD/ES are you getting?

 

[NodakBarbarian]

I loaded 30 rounds in alternating fashion between the two lots of brass. Shot three alternating 10 shot strings at 835 yards with one lot having the bullets colored with sharpie up to their ogive. 1 FPS average difference between the lots of brass. One lot of brass had an SD of 9.4 and ES of 30. The other lot had an SD of 5.2 and ES of 17.

I didn’t shoot each lot of bullets by themselves for group testing. Each 10 shot group that consisted of 5 of each brass lot was under 1 MOA. There was no discernible difference between the brass lot when it came to grouping.

 

[n0glock]

Good information, thank you

 

[MakeSawdust]

OCD reloading is for benchrest. Good components, with no sorting will shoot .3 at close range easily. No neck turning either. I have several boxes of Lapua br brass that gets annealed every third firing. I can mix them up with some freshly annealed and some on their second and third firing and velocity and group size don't change.

I used to do a ton of nitpicky shit. Now, it is easy. Lapua brass, Berger bullets, a good barrel with a concentric chamber. I full length size with .002-.003 shoulder bump, prime with a Lee priming tool, throw charges on the auto trickler and seat bullets. I and many others are getting the same results on paper as you are.

Many have figured out that .3 is easy and mostly a good gun and good component selection. The only people that really make gains with neck turning, bullet sorting, etc. are the people that want to shoot every group under .25 moa.

If the extra steps build confidence, do them. If they do not, they are just wasting time.

PS: I also did the same experiment with a 243ai and Winchester brass. I had the same results.

 

[Darkside-Six]

Throw them together. You’ll be fine and won’t see any difference.

 

[NodakBarbarian]

OCD reloading is for benchrest. Good components, with no sorting will shoot .3 at close range easily. No neck turning either. I have several boxes of Lapua br brass that gets annealed every third firing. I can mix them up with some freshly annealed and some on their second and third firing and velocity and group size don't change.

I used to do a ton of nitpicky shit. Now, it is easy. Lapua brass, Berger bullets, a good barrel with a concentric chamber. I full length size with .002-.003 shoulder bump, prime with a Lee priming tool, throw charges on the auto trickler and seat bullets. I and many others are getting the same results on paper as you are.

Many have figured out that .3 is easy and mostly a good gun and good component selection. The only people that really make gains with neck turning, bullet sorting, etc. are the people that want to shoot every group under .25 moa.

If the extra steps build confidence, do them. If they do not, they are just wasting time.

PS: I also did the same experiment with a 243ai and Winchester brass. I had the same results.

Thank you for the thorough explanation. That makes a lot of sense. What are your thoughts on annealing non-wildcatted cartridges? Nick at BulletCentral said that there was zero need to anneal a 6.5 Creedmoor Lapua brass, and that with all the testing he’s done, it doesn’t promote more consistent neck tension or longer brass life vs not annealing when it comes to the 6.5CM.

 

[NodakBarbarian]

Alright, the brass are now mixed, no going back now!

 

[Rocketmandb]

Alright, the brass are now mixed, no going back now!

I just read this thread and was going to post that mixing brass lots has a significant detrimental effect on...

 

[NodakBarbarian]

I just read this thread and was going to post that mixing brass lots has a significant detrimental effect on...

Funny guy, trying to torture me?

 

[Rocketmandb]

Funny guy, trying to torture me?

Call it a personality disorder

 

[Darkside-Six]

Thank you for the thorough explanation. That makes a lot of sense. What are your thoughts on annealing non-wildcatted cartridges? Nick at BulletCentral said that there was zero need to anneal a 6.5 Creedmoor Lapua brass, and that with all the testing he’s done, it doesn’t promote more consistent neck tension or longer brass life vs not annealing when it comes to the 6.5CM.

I personally anneal everything every firing. I have noticed over the years it’s a little more consistent and it just boils down to piece of mind. Annealing is easy and cheap.

 

[Joel Danielson]

I am hoping the test I run will prove you right. I shoot 144 Berger LRHT's and they're so consistent I don't bother sorting them. I've read that most brass weight fluctuations come from the thickness of the case head which doesn't effect much if anything when it comes to accuracy. If I was going to weigh brass it would be to find the internal volume, something I'm not going to do though.

The whole point of this post was that I was hoping people had ran tests, like I'm going to do tomorrow, and chime in.

I am a BR shooter, and what Fig said is spot on. Unless you are good enough to shoot group scores in the 1.5 inch range at 600 yards, you will not tell the difference with Lapua brass. I did a test with 6BR brass from separate lots a few years back that were a couple years apart in production age. I found more internal volume difference in cases from the same lot than I did from an average of the two. Part of what makes Lapua successful is their lot to lot consistency.
Cheers