Hello all, I had received my new select Shilen match brl. and the chamber looks a little rough. When I had put a dummy case in, it came out out with some tiny scratches on it. I would like to polish it, but have never done this work to a chamber before. What tools would I need to use and what kind of trouble can I get into if not done properly. Closet desent gunsmith is 100 miles away. The rifle has not yet been fired.
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Re: To polish a chamber
I had a Shilen chambered barrel, now I have a GAP chambered Shilen barrel. I wouldn't polish anything until you either fire it or you can get a scope into the chamber.
In my case the chamber Shilen cut had a throat so long I couldn't reach the lands and still fit a cartridge in the magazine. I sent the barrel back to Shilen and they said it was perfect. I sent dummy spec cartridges and cartridges loaded to the lands and was still told the chamber was perfect. George Gardner ended up recutting the chamber. The GAP chamber netted almost 100fps gain in velocity as well.
Shilen makes a fine barrel but I'll never buy another barrel that they cut the chamber in.
I had a Shilen chambered barrel, now I have a GAP chambered Shilen barrel. I wouldn't polish anything until you either fire it or you can get a scope into the chamber.
In my case the chamber Shilen cut had a throat so long I couldn't reach the lands and still fit a cartridge in the magazine. I sent the barrel back to Shilen and they said it was perfect. I sent dummy spec cartridges and cartridges loaded to the lands and was still told the chamber was perfect. George Gardner ended up recutting the chamber. The GAP chamber netted almost 100fps gain in velocity as well.
Shilen makes a fine barrel but I'll never buy another barrel that they cut the chamber in.
Re: To polish a chamber
858, when the gunsmith installed my brl., he did mention that the throat did look on the long side. And yes, he did use a bore scope. However, at the time, he did not mention anything about the chamber being or looking rough. Once I got back home is when I tried the dummy round and was not completley satisfied. This is my first Shilen brl. Guess I will shoot it first and make some kind of a decision as suggested. Thank you.
858, when the gunsmith installed my brl., he did mention that the throat did look on the long side. And yes, he did use a bore scope. However, at the time, he did not mention anything about the chamber being or looking rough. Once I got back home is when I tried the dummy round and was not completley satisfied. This is my first Shilen brl. Guess I will shoot it first and make some kind of a decision as suggested. Thank you.
Re: To polish a chamber
you don't want the chamber to be mirror smooth anyway, I am not looking at your chamber, but you definately want some gripping surface for the brass in there...
Dave
you don't want the chamber to be mirror smooth anyway, I am not looking at your chamber, but you definately want some gripping surface for the brass in there...
Dave
Re: To polish a chamber
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DebosDave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you don't want the chamber to be mirror smooth anyway, I am not looking at your chamber, but you definately want some gripping surface for the brass in there...
Dave </div></div>
+1...
The brass of the case needs something to bite against so all the pressure doesn't fully engage the bolt.
I used to know a guy who was very lucky and got away with just having his cheek bone and cheek rebuilt. The initial scar went from his nose to his ear.
Call Shilen and talk to someone there. Don't take my word for it. Be sure in what you do. The consequences can be sevier.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DebosDave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you don't want the chamber to be mirror smooth anyway, I am not looking at your chamber, but you definately want some gripping surface for the brass in there...
Dave </div></div>
+1...
The brass of the case needs something to bite against so all the pressure doesn't fully engage the bolt.
I used to know a guy who was very lucky and got away with just having his cheek bone and cheek rebuilt. The initial scar went from his nose to his ear.
Call Shilen and talk to someone there. Don't take my word for it. Be sure in what you do. The consequences can be sevier.
Re: To polish a chamber
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: macv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">858, when the gunsmith installed my brl., he did mention that the throat did look on the long side. And yes, he did use a bore scope. However, at the time, he did not mention anything about the chamber being or looking rough. Once I got back home is when I tried the dummy round and was not completley satisfied. This is my first Shilen brl. Guess I will shoot it first and make some kind of a decision as suggested. Thank you. </div></div>
Tiny scratches I wouldn't worry about, if you fire a round and have grooves pressed into the brass then you should worry. I don't know about this "rough chambers equals more case grip" business, my concern would be polishing the chamber right out of spec.
Again, shoot it and see what happens.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: macv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">858, when the gunsmith installed my brl., he did mention that the throat did look on the long side. And yes, he did use a bore scope. However, at the time, he did not mention anything about the chamber being or looking rough. Once I got back home is when I tried the dummy round and was not completley satisfied. This is my first Shilen brl. Guess I will shoot it first and make some kind of a decision as suggested. Thank you. </div></div>
Tiny scratches I wouldn't worry about, if you fire a round and have grooves pressed into the brass then you should worry. I don't know about this "rough chambers equals more case grip" business, my concern would be polishing the chamber right out of spec.
Again, shoot it and see what happens.
Re: To polish a chamber
There was a thread on the "grip" of a chamber it was pretty long and extensive and it showed conclusively, and clearly why a polished chamber or oiled cases ARE dangerous to shoot for the very reason above. It puts a significantly higher load on a bolt to the point of possible failure. DON'T POLISH!
There was a thread on the "grip" of a chamber it was pretty long and extensive and it showed conclusively, and clearly why a polished chamber or oiled cases ARE dangerous to shoot for the very reason above. It puts a significantly higher load on a bolt to the point of possible failure. DON'T POLISH!
Re: To polish a chamber
Guy's, thanks for your comments. I will not do anything to the chamber. Sounds like it could be a mistake. I will leave it as is and shoot it first. Chances are that it will be just fine. When the gunsmith looked at it with a bore scope and did not say anything, he more or less saw that all was OK. After all, he does build competion rifles, and he would know. Thanks again.
Guy's, thanks for your comments. I will not do anything to the chamber. Sounds like it could be a mistake. I will leave it as is and shoot it first. Chances are that it will be just fine. When the gunsmith looked at it with a bore scope and did not say anything, he more or less saw that all was OK. After all, he does build competion rifles, and he would know. Thanks again.
Re: To polish a chamber
And if he saw something he could make money on that would "fix" your rifle I am sure he would have told you he could fix it. Just makes business sense and keep a new customer.
And if he saw something he could make money on that would "fix" your rifle I am sure he would have told you he could fix it. Just makes business sense and keep a new customer.
Re: To polish a chamber
I do not have an opinion on this just posting for resource:from Varmint Al's-
"POLISHING MY CHAMBERS.... When I got my 223 Ackley Improved Virgin Valley (no longer in business) barrel, it had a very rough chamber. The fired brass had marks I could see where it had been gripped by the chamber and then slid backwards a tiny bit until stopped by the bolt face. It looked almost sandblasted. There were protruding primers on some of the fired rounds. When the firing pin hits the primer, it pushes the primer and the new case forward in the chamber. When ignition occurs, the pressure expands the walls of the brass. The rough chamber, with its high friction, grabs the case at the forward position and the gas pressure first pushes the primer back against the bolt face. As the pressure builds, the brass case is stretched until the case head is pushed back against the bolt or the case supports the total load. If the case head is pushed against the bolt face, it would produce a flat primer, but flush. If the load is light, the case does not stretch so much and leaves a gap between the case head and the bolt face, but the primer is still against the bolt face. This produces the protruding primers.
CONTROVERSY OR GOOD ENGINEERING.... Now some controversy. I polish my chambers with Flitz. I don't want excessive friction between the brass and the chamber wall. Some are going to argue with this, but I have thought long about this. I have tried it and it works and is good engineering. I polished the chamber in my new Virgin Valley (no longer in business) barrel and it has made quite an improvement. With a polished chamber, the friction coefficient is much less between the brass and the polished stainless steel chamber. The pressure is able to force the case head against the bolt face before the case walls grab the chamber. First, this lets the primer (on the first shot with new brass) protrude, but be immediately reseated in the primer pocket as the case head is pushed back. The brass does not stretch nearly as much as it would in a rough chamber. Now some will say that a polished chamber will increase the force of the bolt face (frame face on the Encore) and that is bad. WRONG! That is faulty logic. The force is increased on the bolt face, but that is where it belongs. As all modern rifles, the barrel and frame of the Encore are designed for strength. They are strong enough to support large diameter Magnum-belted calibers. The force from the much smaller area of the .223 case head is easily supported by the frame face. The brass case is designed to act as a bladder and encase the gas pressure. Trying to use the weaker brass to lighten the load on the action and bolt face of a rifle by having the brass grip the chamber is analogous to using a car's radiator to protect the bumper in a front-end collision. A polished chamber minimizes case stretching, reduces case head separation, and increases case life. More information on chamber finish here. To polish a chamber, I put Flitz on a cotton bore mop and a piece of cleaning rod long enough to be held in a drill motor. I polish for about 30 seconds or more at a 300 to 600 rpm speed. Sometimes I have to wrap a paper towel around the swab and put Flitz on it to get a good fit. Be sure that the end of the bore mop's metal part is much smaller than the bore and covered so it will not damage the rifling in front of the chamber."
Here are 2 more links to more reading!!
http://www.varmintal.com/a243z.htm
http://www.varmintal.com/afric.htm
I do not have an opinion on this just posting for resource:from Varmint Al's-
"POLISHING MY CHAMBERS.... When I got my 223 Ackley Improved Virgin Valley (no longer in business) barrel, it had a very rough chamber. The fired brass had marks I could see where it had been gripped by the chamber and then slid backwards a tiny bit until stopped by the bolt face. It looked almost sandblasted. There were protruding primers on some of the fired rounds. When the firing pin hits the primer, it pushes the primer and the new case forward in the chamber. When ignition occurs, the pressure expands the walls of the brass. The rough chamber, with its high friction, grabs the case at the forward position and the gas pressure first pushes the primer back against the bolt face. As the pressure builds, the brass case is stretched until the case head is pushed back against the bolt or the case supports the total load. If the case head is pushed against the bolt face, it would produce a flat primer, but flush. If the load is light, the case does not stretch so much and leaves a gap between the case head and the bolt face, but the primer is still against the bolt face. This produces the protruding primers.
CONTROVERSY OR GOOD ENGINEERING.... Now some controversy. I polish my chambers with Flitz. I don't want excessive friction between the brass and the chamber wall. Some are going to argue with this, but I have thought long about this. I have tried it and it works and is good engineering. I polished the chamber in my new Virgin Valley (no longer in business) barrel and it has made quite an improvement. With a polished chamber, the friction coefficient is much less between the brass and the polished stainless steel chamber. The pressure is able to force the case head against the bolt face before the case walls grab the chamber. First, this lets the primer (on the first shot with new brass) protrude, but be immediately reseated in the primer pocket as the case head is pushed back. The brass does not stretch nearly as much as it would in a rough chamber. Now some will say that a polished chamber will increase the force of the bolt face (frame face on the Encore) and that is bad. WRONG! That is faulty logic. The force is increased on the bolt face, but that is where it belongs. As all modern rifles, the barrel and frame of the Encore are designed for strength. They are strong enough to support large diameter Magnum-belted calibers. The force from the much smaller area of the .223 case head is easily supported by the frame face. The brass case is designed to act as a bladder and encase the gas pressure. Trying to use the weaker brass to lighten the load on the action and bolt face of a rifle by having the brass grip the chamber is analogous to using a car's radiator to protect the bumper in a front-end collision. A polished chamber minimizes case stretching, reduces case head separation, and increases case life. More information on chamber finish here. To polish a chamber, I put Flitz on a cotton bore mop and a piece of cleaning rod long enough to be held in a drill motor. I polish for about 30 seconds or more at a 300 to 600 rpm speed. Sometimes I have to wrap a paper towel around the swab and put Flitz on it to get a good fit. Be sure that the end of the bore mop's metal part is much smaller than the bore and covered so it will not damage the rifling in front of the chamber."
Here are 2 more links to more reading!!
http://www.varmintal.com/a243z.htm
http://www.varmintal.com/afric.htm
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