To SBR or not to SBR with a suppressor

[Glassaholic]

Right now I have a SBR with a 9" 300BLK barrel and Thunderbeast 30BA suppressor that I can spin on and off. Dealing with an SBR can be a pain though especially when crossing state lines. More and more companies are coming out with integrated suppressors for 300BLK and I'm wondering if I should go that route. Anyone with a integrated suppressor upper like Daniel Defense ISR, Aero Precision/SilencerCo or Witt Machine integrally suppressed uppers? What are your thoughts...

 

[Kadams1563]

I think I would much prefer the suppressor and SBR method. Then you can use the can on multiple guns for the future. Yea the wait sucks but I don't like having a suppressor permanently attached or something that is built to stay suppressed.

 

[LawnMM]

Just my take...

Why spend hundreds, even thousands of dollars... buying and building an SBR just to hang a 7-10" can on the end? I'd say either keep it unsuppressed and handy, or look at an integrated solution.

 

[5RWill]

Just my take...

Why spend hundreds, even thousands of dollars... buying and building an SBR just to hang a 7-10" can on the end? I'd say either keep it unsuppressed and handy, or look at an integrated solution.

Lawn has a point. Though the wait for a can is going to miserable, i guess that's a known. To be fair that is pretty much the longest can config you could with for an SBR. I'd like a shorter can and keep the SBR as is. Though i can see where integrally suppressed makes sense. I just dunno, all that wait and that suppressor is completely bound to one firearm, would probably bother me. I guess either way you're spending a heap of money be it a shorter new can or an integrally suppressed SBR. Probably end up going with the latter despite my dislikes.

 

[Glassaholic]

Lawn, I'd think the answer would be obvious to your question about building an SBR just to hang a can off the end - so I can shoot without ear protection. I shoot exclusively 300BLK subsonic rounds. I already have a suppressor as shown in the image above, so that's not an issue waiting for another one. I guess I'm curious to hear from other SBR owners how much a pain it is to travel across state lines, is it pretty easy to work with the ATF to request transfer and all that. I get your thoughts Will, being "locked" down to one suppressor for one rifle is a hindrance and I have been eyeing the new Thunderbeast Ultra 7 which will work with all my TB brakes on my rifles. I suppose that, along with the rarity of my state line travel with the SBR, really negates the benefits of not having an SBR.

I am curious from anyone who has spoken to the ATF about what happens if you have an SBR stamp for a rifle, but then put a 16" barrel on said rifle, is it then legal to take that rifle across state lines without getting permission from the ATF, or because the rifle is legally registered as an SBR, regardless of barrel length you have to follow all rules for SBR?

Also, what ever happened with the Trust issue with the ATF, I have not been keeping up entirely on the latest, did the ATF ever shut down the ability for Gun Trust owners to purchase a suppressor/SBR through the Trust or is that still a possibility?

 

[deersniper]

Brace is the way to go instead of SBR.

From what I have read on the subject, putting a non SBR upper on a SBR means u can go across state lines like it is a regular rifle.

 

[LawnMM]

The SBR configuration makes it class 3, not the receiver. If you put a 16" upper on it then it's no longer an SBR. Travel as you see fit. You can travel with an SBR but you're supposed to notify the ATF. I've heard it's fairly simple to do but I've yet to try it or travel out of state with mine.

On another note, even subsonic 300blk is not hearing safe, even suppressed. It's your life and they're your ears, but it's going to cost you in the long run. You're probably still around 120 dB which is still above what's considered "safe" for your ears.

 

[5RWill]

Also, what ever happened with the Trust issue with the ATF, I have not been keeping up entirely on the latest, did the ATF ever shut down the ability for Gun Trust owners to purchase a suppressor/SBR through the Trust or is that still a possibility?

You can still use the Trust to it's full extent, it's an inconvenience now to do so. Post 41F you'll have to have to submit a photo ID, fingerprint, and background check of every individual in the trust. I think i had read once you had done so you didn't have to again for a period of 2 years but don't quote me on that. Also i think a notification is sent to the CLEO now, granted he can't refuse but he is notified.

 

[Potss]

The answer is a bullpup like the Tavor in .300blk. Unless accuracy at range is a huge concern.

 

[newguy2k3v2]

Yes you have to notify the ATF when crossing state lines with a SBR but I think you're forgetting that applies to any class 3 item. Going to an integral upper doesn't get around that.

 

[bkw1911]

Yes you have to notify the ATF when crossing state lines with a SBR but I think you're forgetting that applies to any class 3 item. Going to an integral upper doesn't get around that.

Not true of a suppressor. No notification required. Maybe 15yrs ago.

 

[Glassaholic]

Thank you all for your input, that helps a lot, always appreciate the Hide community and their input. I have actually thought of the Tavor, I really like those rifles. bkw1911 is correct, you do not need to notify ATF when traveling to another state with a suppressor, I have verified this with ATF; however, these must be states that allow suppressors, not sure how it might work if you are traveling through a state that bans suppressors.

 

[TexasEric]

Sorry about being off topic. What kind of rail system is that? I like it a lot.
Also do you handload? Or use cheap ammo? If you experiment with anything that may be unstable, one baffle striking will deadline the whole weapons system. If you don't use integral suppressed, you would not lose use of the gun. Just a thought.

 

[A5scott]

SLR Rail. They are great.

I would SBR, and I have 2 factory SBR's and 4 Form 1 lowers. I also have a pistol brace lower for times I don't get a 5320.20 in time.

If I didn't want to deal with traveling across state lines with an SBR, I would pin and weld my GA Spartan 3 or Sig SRD 556 direct thread can and hopefully be able to sacrifice the barrel to save the can if I ever had to split them.

As cool as integrally suppressed are, I tend to stay away as they are a bit heavy, and if I remember correctly, they don't suppress as well as the non-IS systems.

Scott

 

[Glassaholic]

Eric, Scott is correct, it is an SLR Rifleworks Solo Series handguard, SLR makes nice gear, in fact all of my handguards for AR-15's and AR-10s are SLR, though I do have a Rainier Arms guard sitting around somewhere for another AR-10 build. I handload my 300BLK, bought like 800 cases or something like that from a guy that cut down Lake City 5.56 and reformed and all that, great deal. So easy with H110, W296 and now I just got some CFE BLK that I can't wait to play around with. I buy the cheapest .308 heavy bullets I can find, the lightest I've loaded subsonic and still reliably cycles are 168's, but I can often find Nosler Custom Competition 190gr blems for less than $20 for 100 and they do very well subsonic. Good point about some accidental baffle strike with an integral suppressor. Thanks everyone for your advice, I think I'm going to stick with the separate suppressor for now.

 

[Servo93]

In response to the crossing state lines with an SBR. It's not that difficult and can be done for up to a year at a time.
if you frequent family members or a particular range across state lines input that address into the form 20 and just put the dates from January 1 to December 31.
You can resubmit the same information year after year with updated dates for all your SBRs. Paper work takes about 1-3 months and is super easy.

you can submit paper work for multiple states at the same time.

 

[Sendit6.5]

Personally, I think an integrally suppressed barrel is a waste of money - unless you REALLY love that setup! You're going to have to pay just about the same amount as you would for a traditional suppressor but you're going to be limited to only one of a few manufacturers and none that I'm aware of that're renowned for their accurate barrels. Suppressor rules are the same whether it's integral or not; so I don't see any advantage as far as travel goes. You will have the same laws to contend with either way. Lastly, the suppressor may (likely) outlive the barrel (on integrally suppressed) and then you've got to throw away a perfectly good suppressor. I don't see any advantage to integral suppressors until such time as suppressors may be removed from NFA control. JMO


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[leeb10]

One benefit of the IS option is if it is over 16 inches with the suppressor you only need one NFA stamp (for the suppressor). Also as it is not an sbr, you do not need to notify ATF when traveling across states.

 

[missed]

I'm going through the same thing right now. I want a MCX with the folder. I have been thinking really hard about a permanent mounted supressor to make the 16" and call it good. As I can't buy a 11"MCX as a civilian unless it's a pistol. I know I could get the arm brace, but the skeleton folder I really like.

 

[Pure-Precision]

I would suggest looking into pinning and welding a can on to an 11" barrel. As stated many mfg are now making cans specifically for this. Gemtech, sig sauer, yhm, and innovative arms just to name a few. Also if done properly they can be removed by drilling out the weld and removing or drilling through the pin. I have done this twice for customers that had upper failures.


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[Glassaholic]

Good point Pure about pinning and welding, for 300BLK that probably makes more sense as you're not going to gain much with a 16" barrel vs a 9" barrel with 7" suppressor and subsonic ammo. The integral suppressor probably make more sense with 5.56 that benefit from the longer barrel.

 

[Racer9j]

Why not just buy a separate 16" upper for when you cross state lines? you can still then put the can on the full size upper and then when your home back to the shorty.

 

[Glassaholic]

That was one of my questions early on Racer, can you swap an upper on an SBR'd lower and cross state lines without having to fill out the ATF forms and it sounds like that is the case.

 

[Racer9j]

That was one of my questions early on Racer, can you swap an upper on an SBR'd lower and cross state lines without having to fill out the ATF forms and it sounds like that is the case.

That is my understanding, but I haven't left the state with mine. There is so much gray area with NFA items; I would look into it.

But unless you go to a commie state, the chances are likely that no one would think twice with a 16" setup. It's worth knowing though!

 

[Sendit6.5]

That was one of my questions early on Racer, can you swap an upper on an SBR'd lower and cross state lines without having to fill out the ATF forms and it sounds like that is the case.

If a NFA lower has a 16" (or longer) upper on it, then it's not a SBR in that configuration and, thus, requires ZERO paperwork for interstate travel.


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[oldfatguy]

I really like my SBR with the stock and have filed the 5320s, no big deal. I also have a pistol lower that works very well with the advantage of being allowed to carry it loaded in a vehicle.

The 8.5" 300 BLK with Saker 7.62 attached makes for one very large pistol, but legally it is still a pistol.

OFG

 

[Glassaholic]

I also have a pistol lower that works very well with the advantage of being allowed to carry it loaded in a vehicle.

The 8.5" 300 BLK with Saker 7.62 attached makes for one very large pistol, but legally it is still a pistol.

OFG

I hadn't thought of that OFG, that's definitely something to think about...

 

[PlinkIt]

Just to add another clarification since it's been brought up a couple times. Crossing state lines with SBRs...

I have called in with the question about putting a 16"+ barrel on my SBR lower to take across state lines. I was told that is 100% good to go. The SBR just can't be configured as an SBR while over the line.

Pinning to a SBR... Why? The cost of the work on and off over the cans life is more expensive than the stamp... If you live close to a couple state lines, just do the forms for a year for each state.

 

[Sendit6.5]

Just to add another clarification since it's been brought up a couple times. Crossing state lines with SBRs...

I have called in with the question about putting a 16"+ barrel on my SBR lower to take across state lines. I was told that is 100% good to go. The SBR just can't be configured as an SBR while over the line.

Pinning to a SBR... Why? The cost of the work on and off over the cans life is more expensive than the stamp... If you live close to a couple state lines, just do the forms for a year for each state.

Great advice, there! Not sure what the big hassle is about filling out the form once a year to be cleared to transport your SBR across state lines.


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[Glassaholic]

Great advice, there! Not sure what the big hassle is about filling out the form once a year to be cleared to transport your SBR across state lines.


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My original question was regarding issues with crossing state lines with SBR and whether or not it might be better to get an upper with an integrated suppressor and 16" barrel because you don't need to file anything to cross a state line with a suppressor as long as that state allows suppressors. After hearing from many others I have decided that an integral suppressor is not the route I need to take and have realized the forms for crossing state lines aren't that big of a deal, and if I really want to take the rifle into another state I can always put on one of my 16" uppers. Thanks again to everyone.