Rifle Scopes Top end magnification to get to 1000 yards in .308?

[Flakbait]

Years ago, the US military was using fix 10 power rifle scopes to hit man sized targets to 1000 yards. Now variables are much more practical and reliable. What do you suggest the minimum top end power is needed for shooting out to 1000 yards with a .308 rifle at say 18-24 inch targets?

Common magnification ranges I see are the following:

3-12x50
3-15x50
4-16x50

Yes, 20 or 25 power is nice, but mirage makes such top end not too useful at times...Not to mention the obvious cost and weight of those scopes.

I'm looking for a midrange FFP scope at the high end of the market like a Steiner, Kahles, Premier Reticle LT, or Night Force F1 that has a solid lifetime warranty and that will not make me want to upgrade after five years. S&B is probably the king in this field but I don't like their limited 2 year warranty nor do I think their expense over their competitors is justified. This scope would be used primarily for shooting steel and paper with a Rem 700 SPS Tactical which I may spend the money later to rebarrel and blueprint the action as i develop my skill level. I might try to take a shot or two at a feral hog now and then but I have dedicated hunting rigs more suited to that activity.

I figure if I got a great scope now, I would not feel the urge to have to upgrade the glass again. I am not interested in SFP rifle scopes.

It's hard to get a good side by side comparison because few places stock such high end scopes. From my reading of this forum, these are my general thoughts.

Night Force F1 3-15x50 has inferior glass to the others in color rendition but excellent resolution and contrast. Most folks don't complain they missed the target because they were using a NF scope. However, since these scopes are in the $2500 range, I probably want more for my money than the NF F1.

Premier Reticle LT sounds interesting from all I have read but I am a little hesitant to purchase something from a company that will be out of business or changing owners every few years, especially if something needs fixing.

Kahles make a 3-12 scope which looks interesting, especially if it comes with a MSR reticle. Is 12 power too low? I think the Marines snipers are using S&B PMII 3-12 so probably not. I have experience with a Swarovski hunting scope so I assume the Kahles glass is excellent.

Steiner makes a 3-15x50 and 4-16x50 which interests me. The weight seems a tad high but everything so far I hear is pretty good from this company new to the US market.

I'm happy see more options available in just the past few years as more companies are moving into the market for producing good glass for precision shooting. I think I am leaning towards the Kahles k312 vs Steiner 3-15x50 or 4x16x50...with the Premier and NF running a distant third and forth.

 

[sib1948]

For what you want, I think you'd love the Vortex Razor HD 5-20X 50mm with EBR-2B reticle. Love mine and perfect for that caliber and distance! Lifetime, transferable warranty with great customer service. They'll fix or replace even if you run over it with your truck. Best bang for your buck and clear optics. I think I saw an ongoing Group Buy here on the Hide. 35mm tube, so mine is mounted in solid Spuhr 20 MOA mount. You get all that plus illumination for about $2000.

I also love my non illuminated March F 3-24x 42mm with FML-1 reticle for $2260 from Kelbly Rifles. Shortest and most lightweight of all premium scopes with 5 year warranty, which Kelbly says he will extend. Best turrets and simplest zero stop available. Zero can be quickly changed with a coin (no tools or wrenches). I've had 2 for over year of hard use on my Barrett MRAD without issues.

Good Luck with whatever you decide!

 

[Graham]

Weight in a scope is a good thing. The best value is still the NF F1. The cheapest is the Bushnell DMR. I do like the 5-25 Steiner, but only the newer ones with the thinner crosshairs and MSR reticle. You won't need anything over 15x. 4-16 is an ideal range for your purposes.

 

[MrSwede]

Razor HD if you want magnification, Kahles K312 if you want the most awesome glass available and a FOV to die for.

Personally I'd get the K312. I borrowed one for a couple of weeks, thinking 12x may be a little low. However the resolution and contrast really makes it feel like a 15x.
I spotted a retriever-sized dog at 1400 yeards and had no problems ID'ing or bracketing the vitals. The dogs owner then came into view and a man sized target even at "only" 12x at 1400 yards with the K312 seemed huge.

 

[sib1948]

Can't argue with Graham, since he is obviously more experienced than me.

MrSwede, I hope your rifle wasn't loaded...

 

[kraigWY]

I ran sniper schools using 2.2X M84 Scopes on M1C/D's, we had no problem hitting E-Silhouette targets to 1100 yards. Better a 900, (max range of the adjustment on that scope).

I prefer 10X my self. You can see what you need to with less mirage interference you get with higher power scopes.

Was out scouting my antelope area and took my Weaver Tactical (max 10X) to practice MILing the critters. No problem seen critters at distance much farther then I'd attempt to shoot.

Like Graham, I like light weight.

They use 6" spotters to mark shots on 1000 yard targets. Never had a problem seeing them with my Weaver T-10 on my 1000 yard bolt gun.

 

[Lafayette]

While i think 16x is enough power to get out to 1K i find it difficult to spot misses with anything less than 20. Yes feild of view helps on lower power scope but my eyes the +20x is ideal.


I have the SB 5-25 MSR and have shot SS 5-20, Steiner 5-25, NF F1 at 1k. Bang for buck Steiner 5-25 with MSR

 

[Bruno]

Well, after reading your post, it seems you don't want high top end magnification. I don't blame you, as I find my Premier Heritage 3-15 about ideal in that magnification range and distance. It has excellent glass, and turrets are close to perfect. The Premier company was bought by ATI, a large company that isn't going out of business anytime soon. Lifetime warranty, and Paul Lange and Trevor at ATI service have been excellent to deal with. All the scopes mentioned are top shelf, but I am very pleased with my Premier.

 

[earthquake]

If you have top-end/good glass, the higher magnification settings (~25x) work great. Steiner/S&B/Premier etc. You probably only need to worry about that with lower quality scopes at high magnification. The difference is night and day between my Steiner 5-25x and my old SWFA 5-20x SS at the highest magnification.

 

[JWV]

I really like having up to 24 to 26 top end magnification, not that I usually shoot there, but it helps me read the mirage. Then I usually dial back down and shoot. However, I shoot F-class so a hit is not just a hit.

 

[neeltburn]

I run a Nightforce NXS 3.5-15 x 56 Second Focal Plane I have had hits and spotted hits and misses out to 1180-1200 yards. I think any of the scopes mentioned will do what you need. My list would be. Nightforce, Vortex, Bushnell HDMR. ( but that is what is in my budget)

 

[TheGerman]

I had an F1 3-15 and now have a 5-25 Steiner.

I next to never maxed out the F1 and the Steiner I notice I keep it around 12 most of the time unless I am trying to see something specific at distance. The mirage usually destroys your site picture the further over 12 you go.

 

[Palehorse68]

FWIW..I have both the NF F1 (LWRC REPR) and Vortex Razor HD w/ EBR-2B (FN-A5M)...love them both.. a month ago I was hitting steel at 1235yds and could easily see the splash through the Vortex. Quality of the NF glass is in the eye of the beholder..different strokes for different folks I guess..

 

[ccoker]

Razor HD if you want magnification, Kahles K312 if you want the most awesome glass available and a FOV to die for.

Personally I'd get the K312. I borrowed one for a couple of weeks, thinking 12x may be a little low. However the resolution and contrast really makes it feel like a 15x.
I spotted a retriever-sized dog at 1400 yeards and had no problems ID'ing or bracketing the vitals. The dogs owner then came into view and a man sized target even at "only" 12x at 1400 yards with the K312 seemed huge.

yes sir!
I agree, I got one after testing and it replaced a USO 3-17
The 18" plates appeared as big as the USO at 15
In Texas the heat mirage gets in the way of shooting at really high power and at 12x the field of view is very large as you referenced allowing to call my own shots.

I LOVE this scope..
love, love, love, giddy like a school girl

 

[Killshot44]

For 1,000 yard target shooting Nightforce rules the firing line. And the majority of them are the 12-42X for good reason - you can't hit what you can't readily see. New competitors who show up with 15-25X glass their first few matches almost always end up selling and buying more magnification.
I shoot F-open and rarely find a need to dial back from 42X due to mirage, this is in 90º+ heat in the Sacramento Valley. Mirage is a wind-reading tool, learn how to use it to your advantage.
There's little need for FFP on a KD range; need to measure distance? get a laser rangefinder.