Top inherently accurate 2000 yard calibers

[Dan Warner]

Dan, a buddy of mine, 74 years old, and full tilt addicted to ELR pushes your 256 gr .338’ s at 3404 FPS, with no pressure issues!, RL 26, from a 32” gain twist 338 Lapua40deg improved. At 1642 yards he was shooting a 1/4 MOA, and hitting 6” thick rocks at will. It’s was the best performance from a rifle at that distance that I have seen. What I leaned that day was, accurate velocity is your friend especially in the wind, I’m not crazy about long barrels but they have their place, RL 26 is a good substitute for N570 in that cartridge, and lathe turned solids are an improvement over cap and core bullets, I was shooting a 300 Norma with cap and core and was way out of the league of the solid bullets moving at 3400.

Awesome! Thanks for sharing that and the data. On paper, I'd say that load is on the spicy side, so I'd certainly not suggest anyone just jump into that from the start; best to ladder into what works for obvious reasons. However, it is clearly working for him. But most, even with a high end load like that, are not running them quite that fast. One or two things going on there, perhaps a combination of the two. First in that the barrel is inherently on the fast side, based on fit and finish. Second is the possibility of barrel treatment (and I'd like to know what he's doing here). The use of HbN and/or Graphene bore treatments are known to speed things up. It's be interesting to know if either or both are being used here.

"full tilt addicted to ELR"; I might have to steal that one.

 

[nick338]

I'm still having trouble believing someone is pushing a 273 gr projectile 3295 out of a standard Lapua unless it's a 34" gain twist barrel, single feed, 8000 ft elevation and 90 degree day.

 

[jasent]

I believe it. I have a McGowen barrel that’s super fast. Consistently 200-300 FPS faster than quick load predicts. Shooting a 250 gr Berger at 3025 fps from a 338/375 ruger. 30” 1:9. Some times you just get lucky

 

[nick338]

I guess I've just been really unlucky. 30 plus barrels over the years and I've never had one run fast. 4 of them Lapua barrels and always struggled to see more than 2750 fps with 300 gr. Granted they were all 26-27" and I'm at sea level but that's still a tremendous difference.

 

[Lynn Jr]

Our guys are running the 256 flatlines at 3150 FPS from 30+ inch barrels in the standard 338 Lapua.

 

[riverside jeep]

Theis
Can you show me a full line of sub 2 inch NBRSA groups?
The screenshot shows the groups at the 2017 Nationals.
I suspect you are looking at local club matches?
The URSA gongs are 37 inches round and if you get 4 out of 10 you advance in 500 yard increments.
You are cordially invited to any of our matches.
The picture is me shooting my 338 Lapua Ackley Improved across a 2000 yard canyon. It's hard to spot your misses in snow.

Thats a great picture!, I know nothing of long range shooting but it looks like you need a hand truck to move your gun out of the truck. And I must say that those a mighty impressive group sizes posted.

 

[nick338]

Our guys are running the 256 flatlines at 3150 FPS from 30+ inch barrels in the standard 338 Lapua.

That makes more sense to me. Sounds like an absolute hammer. If I ever run a Lapua again I'll be giving the flatlines a hard look.

 

[Lynn Jr]

That makes more sense to me. Sounds like an absolute hammer. If I ever run a Lapua again I'll be giving the flatlines a hard look.

We have a shooter that posts here as WhiteMamba and I think he has gone 7-8 out of 10 several times now with the flatlines and a straight 338 Lapua at 2054 yards.
Maybe he will post his recipe?

 

[nick338]

We have a shooter that posts here as WhiteMamba and I think he has gone 7-8 out of 10 several times now with the flatlines and a straight 338 Lapua at 2054 yards.
Maybe he will post his recipe?

I'm all in on this 300 PRC and 225 ELD's for now. May even give the 198 Flatline a look as well but if it doesn't work out I may start a 338 Lapua reunion.
Thanks for the info.

 

[newbieshuter]

I’m running 270 @ 3050 on an easy load. No pressure at all. 87.5 gr 4831sc 3.710 oal. I don’t believe this 273 at 5000 yards crap at 3300 FPS lol

 

[Fsleeper]

I'm SORRY for replying to an OLD conversation but I'm really looking for help.

I have a really nice dessert tactical .338LM (Bullpup design) and great Night Force Scope with a base zeroed at 200 yards from the start. Obviously hitting bulls at 1000 is childs play (heck daughter at 15yo, first shot, was dinging at 1000)

But... That's my max! NOT because I miss beyond that but because with the scope zoomed out all the way and cracked as far as I can for elevation I STILL have to estimate 1 more passed the last ladder on the scope!

Mind you thing is no cheap scope either, a few grand there alone.

Obviously
#1 I don't know "what next". We REALLY want to learn how to shoot to Max distance (yes, I was thinking a swap to the. 416). I really enjoy it!

#2 I guess I did NOT properly understand a more appropriate scope specs needed? (see #1)

I'm an hunter and ole US MARINE (disabled Vet) and really enjoy everything related but.. We all don't train by default for shooting at these ranges. 500-1000 sure, but not beyond.

If anyone could at least point me in the right direction to go from here?

 

[SIDS01]

I'd suggest starting with figuring out how much more you can get out of the scope you have.

From your zero, how much elevation is available before it tops out? What is the advertised elevation for that scope? Subtract one from the other and that's roughly how much more base you can use. The more accurate way to do it is to just move the zero stop out of the way and see how far down you can go. You'll need to leave a couple few mils above completely bottomed. Buy another base that recovers a chunk of that available elevation. Or buy a 1 piece setup with some cant in it to put on top of the base you have. Burris also makes rings with inserts that allow adjusting cant.

A shorter version would be exactly which scope do you have and how many moa are in the base. How many mils or moa from your zero until the scope tops out?

The general approach on optics is to buy a scope that gives 30 mils or more of available travel, add cant in the base to use most of it, and then add a Nightforce Wedge or Charlie Tarac if you need more elevation after that.

The 416 won't help much without solid fundamentals. It'd just be a more expensive way to learn them.

 

[SIDS01]

But... That's my max! NOT because I miss beyond that but because with the scope zoomed out all the way and cracked as far as I can for elevation I STILL have to estimate 1 more passed the last ladder on the scope!

Let's move back a step.

Are you dialing elevation or trying to use the reticle with the turret at the 200 yard setting?

If you're still on the reticle, start dialing the turret. The travel and repeatability of that turret are why you bought the Nightforce. If you haven't already, set the zero stop so you don't get lost coming back to your zero.

 

[wooferocau]

I'm SORRY for replying to an OLD conversation but I'm really looking for help.

I have a really nice dessert tactical .338LM (Bullpup design) and great Night Force Scope with a base zeroed at 200 yards from the start. Obviously hitting bulls at 1000 is childs play (heck daughter at 15yo, first shot, was dinging at 1000)

But... That's my max! NOT because I miss beyond that but because with the scope zoomed out all the way and cracked as far as I can for elevation I STILL have to estimate 1 more passed the last ladder on the scope!

Mind you thing is no cheap scope either, a few grand there alone.

Obviously
#1 I don't know "what next". We REALLY want to learn how to shoot to Max distance (yes, I was thinking a swap to the. 416). I really enjoy it!

#2 I guess I did NOT properly understand a more appropriate scope specs needed? (see #1)

I'm an hunter and ole US MARINE (disabled Vet) and really enjoy everything related but.. We all don't train by default for shooting at these ranges. 500-1000 sure, but not beyond.

If anyone could at least point me in the right direction to go from here?

Desert Tech 338Lap with 300gr Atips last weekend... Plate is 24" x 24"

 

[Fsleeper]

I'd suggest starting with figuring out how much more you can get out of the scope you have.

From your zero, how much elevation is available before it tops out? What is the advertised elevation for that scope? Subtract one from the other and that's roughly how much more base you can use. The more accurate way to do it is to just move the zero stop out of the way and see how far down you can go. You'll need to leave a couple few mils above completely bottomed. Buy another base that recovers a chunk of that available elevation. Or buy a 1 piece setup with some cant in it to put on top of the base you have. Burris also makes rings with inserts that allow adjusting cant.

A shorter version would be exactly which scope do you have and how many moa are in the base. How many mils or moa from your zero until the scope tops out?

The general approach on optics is to buy a scope that gives 30 mils or more of available travel, add cant in the base to use most of it, and then add a Nightforce Wedge or Charlie Tarac if you need more elevation after that.

The 416 won't help much without solid fundamentals. It'd just be a more expensive way to learn them.

Thanks for the reply!
The scope is the Nightforce NXS - 8-32-56mm which is 62MOA (.25 MOA per click). With the scope zeroed at 200 naturally. So giving me the full range of elevation. But at just under 1000 I'm still at max elevation (assuming the there isn't more past what the dial will let me spin ) - I'm still at 1 passed the last ladder step.

I read about people using a 20 MOA Base which I assume it basically a trade off of giving me 20 more MOA for Long Range, but say goodbye to anything close.
That or find a 100MOA scope.
Or.... I'm a dork and missing something huge (I vote for this option!)

 

[Fsleeper]

Let's move back a step.

Are you dialing elevation or trying to use the reticle with the turret at the 200 yard setting?

If you're still on the reticle, start dialing the turret. The travel and repeatability of that turret are why you bought the Nightforce. If you haven't already, set the zero stop so you don't get lost coming back to your zero.

Yes, dialing. So with the scope mounted and it cranked all the way down at 200 I'm dead on. But dialing up all the way I'm at max and having to put bullseye (zoomed all the way out, not zoomed in) one virtual rung under the last step on my ladder, which works our for the calculations - but - I'm thinking how in God's name are you hitting out this and FAR beyond? I can't imagine if I'm doing everything right - that I'm at max I can get with this scope without possibly cutting out 500+ and below for shooting to gain that on the top end. I've gotta be missing something critical

 

[Fsleeper]

Desert Tech 338Lap with 300gr Atips last weekend... Plate is 24" x 24"

There ya go - yup, that's the rifle, though I went for all black. Looking at your scope - 400MOA adjustment?!!

 

[Northman623]

There ya go - yup, that's the rifle, though I went for all black. Looking at your scope - 400MOA adjustment?!!

Read this thread, it may help answer a few things.https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/what-distance-are-ko2m-guns-zeroed-at.7145628/

 

[secondofangle2]

What is "inherently accurate"?

According to Litz and many others (e.g., Rem Custom Shop only offers their 1/2 MOA guarantee on 30 cal and under), it is smaller calibers; in his book he says it's the ratio of muzzle energy to total weapon system weight.

So if you wanna be inherently accurate, just get a big, long, fatty barrel and heavy everything else in whatever caliber you choose.

And make sure you manage the recoil with a highly effective device, because heavy recoil wreaks havoc on a shooter's fundamentals

 

[Sigma]

has 6.5 creed been mentioned yet?

 

[SIDS01]

Thanks for the reply!
The scope is the Nightforce NXS - 8-32-56mm which is 62MOA (.25 MOA per click). With the scope zeroed at 200 naturally. So giving me the full range of elevation. But at just under 1000 I'm still at max elevation (assuming the there isn't more past what the dial will let me spin ) - I'm still at 1 passed the last ladder step.

I read about people using a 20 MOA Base which I assume it basically a trade off of giving me 20 more MOA for Long Range, but say goodbye to anything close.
That or find a 100MOA scope.
Or.... I'm a dork and missing something huge (I vote for this option!)

What is your firing solution at 1000 yards? I ran a generic 338 Lapua load using a 300 grain Berger at 2750 fps and came up with about 25 moa? With a little help from a density altitude above sea level you should almost be able to do that with either the MOAR-T or MOAR-20MOA and nothing in the turret?

Your scope has an advertised 62 moa of travel. It comes centered and will normally zero around there with a flat base. That'll give you 30ish moa of travel up. If the zero stop is set, there won't be any down. If you add a 20 moa base or mount, the zero stop will have to be lowered that amount to regain your 200 yard zero but now the scope will give 50ish moa of that advertised 62 moa.

I'm not sure why a rifle like that Desert Tech ever came with a flat base. There will be varying amounts of optical degradation as the scope is adjusted closer to its limits. You'll need to decide if you want maximum clarity when you're jerking off at 100 yards or when you're actually shooting. And 200 yard zeros are for hunters. When you start taking the reticle off the fur, most go to 100 yard zeros. It's less walking and harder to fuck up. That SFP silliness is also for hunters who don't estimate range.

Start warming up to that 100 moa scope idea, but don't buy it yet. It'll save a few steps if you wait until you've worked through these base/available travel concepts, you've accepted that the idea that 125+ moa is the way to go, and FFP is for UKD long range.