Rifle Scopes Torn between two new scopes... Leupold LRP vs. Vortex PST Gen 2

[0uTkAsT]

Hi! First of all, I'm aware neither of these scopes have started shipping yet, so this is a somewhat hypothetical post. On the other hand, some are already circulating in privileged hands, they were able to be fondled at SHOT, and there's a lot of knowledge and experience on this forum to draw general comparisons from, so I don't think it's entirely too early to start a thread about it.

So I'm looking at ordering a VX-3i LRP 4.5-14x50 SFP TMOA, Viper PST Gen II 3-15x44 SFP EBR-4 MOA, or even an SHV 4-14x56 SFP MOAR just to make this decision increasingly difficult. It's for a compact precision rifle that is primarily a mid range hole puncher (100-600 yards, maybe 800+ on rare occasion for shits 'n giggles), but it may also see hunting use. I've come up with the following list of "paper comparisons", but what I lack is any real hands-on experience with them, or anything remotely close (such as similar or past models from the same product line, etc).

- They are all within approximately $100 of each other, my cost.
- The LRP is ~2" shorter and roughly half a pound lighter than both the SHV and PSTII.
- The PSTII's objective diameter is at least .22" narrower than the other two.
- The LRP has 20 MOA / 35 MOA more internal elevation adjustment compared to the NF / Vortex (respectively), and considerably more internal windage adjustment as well.
- The PSTII has illumination standard where the others do not, but illumination is not much of a concern to me.
- The PSTII has a broader magnification range, but the shortest eye relief. The LRP has longer eye relief, but the SHV has the most consistent eye relief from high to low.
- The SHV has all capped turrets, the LRP has an extremely tall exposed elevation and capped windage, and the PSTII has all exposed turrets.
- They all feature zero stop, rotation counters, clean MOA reticle options, side focus, 30mm tubes, stellar warranties and customer service backing them, and are probably fairly similar in build quality and overall construction.

I can compare specs online all day but - size and weight aside - this data just tells me the decision is going to come down to things that I simply can't evaluate myself prior to purchase, such as glass clarity, turret quality & feel, etc. That's where you come in. I'm just curious to hear thoughts and opinions on these three choices, even if you may not have had your hands on the exact model in question.

 

[Raptor005]

If you're primarily using it for mid-range, internal elevation wont matter. Vortex PST Gen 2 would be my choice hands down, even bofore considering vortex's warranty.
-SHV is SFP, FFP has more to offer
-LRP looks like it's 10 years behind in technology

 

[quickdraw]

If you're primarily using it for mid-range, internal elevation wont matter. Vortex PST Gen 2 would be my choice hands down, even bofore considering vortex's warranty.
-SHV is SFP, FFP has more to offer
-LRP looks like it's 10 years behind in technology

Yep

 

[0uTkAsT]

If you're primarily using it for mid-range, internal elevation wont matter. Vortex PST Gen 2 would be my choice hands down, even bofore considering vortex's warranty.
-SHV is SFP, FFP has more to offer
-LRP looks like it's 10 years behind in technology

The PST Gen 2 and LRP are both available in FFP, but all three I've mentioned are SFP. I am specifically after SFP scopes with MOA turrets/reticles in the 3x - 16x range available for $1,000 or less. And internal elevation might matter to me because I'm using this on a short barrel in a 0 MOA mount.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by the LRP is 10 years behind in technology? Serious question. It baffles me since this is a brand new optic in a brand new body. Is there something about the coatings Leupold uses that are outdated or something along those lines?

 

[Raptor005]

Valid question, and it's likely a nice optic, just a bit behind its time. Here are a few drawbacks of the LRP:

-Turrets are very tall for no apparent reason (e.g. not locking turrets, not toolless zero stop)
-Turrets have minimal elevation per revolution, which sounds like you're concerned about needing to make quite a bit of elevation adjustments (only 5 mil turrets)
-Same price point as other scopes with more features (zero stop, illuminated reticle, etc.)
-Reticle design is very limited and lacking (especially mil reticle)
​​​​
It would be much better served at a different price point (like half the price).

​​​​​I hope this helps.

 

[sig2009]

Athlon ARES!

 

[craigos]

Why anyone would choose a Leupold is beyond me. Stick with Vortex, they support the sport, they are used everywhere in this sport. Leupold seems to be sticking to their hunting market where they are pulled out the cupboard once a year for a few days. Tells you where their comfort level is IMHO.

 

[NovaHunter]

Just curious, why do you want the 2nd focal plane scope vs. a FFP?

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[athanasios23]

When I think of Leupold, I think $300-$500 dollar scope to put on a hunting rifle I bought on a whim and want to get it to the range. It serves it's purpose. This might just be me. I'm excited to see the new gen 2 pst. My buddy may be getting one and I'd like to really see how it performs and how much of an upgrade it is. I have an SHV and think it's great at its price point. It has capped turrets which I dont mind as its on my .22. And as mentioned before if its a scope is for the long haul the vortex warrenty is top notch.

 

[MATADOR]

I have used Leupold's warranty exclusively, and I will have to say that in my experiences it is as good as Vortex's. That being said, without even seeing one, I would tend to believe that the new PST Gen 2 will be twice the scope of the LRP. This game we play is just not the game that Leupold is interested in marketing/developing for. I will also second the NF SHV, for the price point, it's very hard to beat, very hard.

 

[0uTkAsT]

Thank you all for the helpful responses... this has been very eye-opening. I will admit that my experience with Leupold has been all positive, but entirely limited to scopes in the $300-$500 range. I had never heard anyone speak poorly of Leupold in comparisons to other brands, either, although - again - I was admittedly not speaking with folks in the precision / long range shooting circle. I guess I came into it with some sort of bias towards the LRP since I was familiar with the brand already, but for a completely different type of gun.

I was asked why I want SFP, and the answer is simply visibility across the magnification range. I don't like how small FFP reticles are at lower power settings... The broader the magnification range, the worse that effect is. I feel that, although the SFP reticle isn't useful for ranging or holdovers at low power, it is still more useful than a FFP variant at the bottom end because at least you can see it.

It sounds like I will be waiting for the PST Gen 2. After all, it will only be $50 more than the LRP and sounds as though it will offer a lot more bang for the buck. Does anyone know when they are expected to begin shipping?

 

[quickdraw]

The clock is finally running on these and from multiple questions asked of various sources I'm thinking around the 1st of April.

 

[0uTkAsT]

The clock is finally running on these and from multiple questions asked of various sources I'm thinking around the 1st of April.

I appreciate the info.

 

[mtnkind]

The Viper PST Gen II looks to be an awesome piece of glass!

 

[dannySH]

Thank you all for the helpful responses... this has been very eye-opening. I will admit that my experience with Leupold has been all positive, but entirely limited to scopes in the $300-$500 range. I had never heard anyone speak poorly of Leupold in comparisons to other brands, either, although - again - I was admittedly not speaking with folks in the precision / long range shooting circle. I guess I came into it with some sort of bias towards the LRP since I was familiar with the brand already, but for a completely different type of gun.

I was asked why I want SFP, and the answer is simply visibility across the magnification range. I don't like how small FFP reticles are at lower power settings... The broader the magnification range, the worse that effect is. I feel that, although the SFP reticle isn't useful for ranging or holdovers at low power, it is still more useful than a FFP variant at the bottom end because at least you can see it.

It sounds like I will be waiting for the PST Gen 2. After all, it will only be $50 more than the LRP and sounds as though it will offer a lot more bang for the buck. Does anyone know when they are expected to begin shipping?

If you want SFP, sportoptics has the 3-14 and the 5-25 PST Gen 2 SFP in stock, you don't need to wait.

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[PresTex]

CameraLandNy also had some Gen 2 SFP options in stock.


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[0uTkAsT]

Thanks all!

 

[NovaHunter]

Thank you all for the helpful responses... this has been very eye-opening. I will admit that my experience with Leupold has been all positive, but entirely limited to scopes in the $300-$500 range. I had never heard anyone speak poorly of Leupold in comparisons to other brands, either, although - again - I was admittedly not speaking with folks in the precision / long range shooting circle. I guess I came into it with some sort of bias towards the LRP since I was familiar with the brand already, but for a completely different type of gun.

I was asked why I want SFP, and the answer is simply visibility across the magnification range. I don't like how small FFP reticles are at lower power settings... The broader the magnification range, the worse that effect is. I feel that, although the SFP reticle isn't useful for ranging or holdovers at low power, it is still more useful than a FFP variant at the bottom end because at least you can see it.

It sounds like I will be waiting for the PST Gen 2. After all, it will only be $50 more than the LRP and sounds as though it will offer a lot more bang for the buck. Does anyone know when they are expected to begin shipping?

If you want to get into this game, you really should get a FFP. I have a Vortex HD Razor Gen 1 5-20. Out to 600 yards, I usually run it on 10x. From there to 1000 yards, I usually run it to 15x. Rarely do I take it all the way up to 20x. The reticle is usable at all powers, even when "small". If I want to shoot at 100 yards at 5x, then I can as well, though usually I dial to 10x.

It is immensely helpful when shooting at longer ranges to know that my reticle always is the same ruler. At 1000 yards, I can dial to 15x, clearly see the target, and have greater field of view than at 20x. This allows me to see my misses. Since the scope is FFP, I know exacly how many MOA I am off and can quickly correct horizontally with the reticle or dial if my elevation is off.

With a 2nd focal plane scope, you limit your ability to use your reticle for corrections to the max power, and this greatly limits your FOV.

Shoot enough at ranges beyond 500 yards, and you'll want a FFP scope.

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[0uTkAsT]

If you want to get into this game, you really should get a FFP. I have a Vortex HD Razor Gen 1 5-20. Out to 600 yards, I usually run it on 10x. From there to 1000 yards, I usually run it to 15x. Rarely do I take it all the way up to 20x. The reticle is usable at all powers, even when "small". If I want to shoot at 100 yards at 5x, then I can as well, though usually I dial to 10x.

It is immensely helpful when shooting at longer ranges to know that my reticle always is the same ruler. At 1000 yards, I can dial to 15x, clearly see the target, and have greater field of view than at 20x. This allows me to see my misses. Since the scope is FFP, I know exacly how many MOA I am off and can quickly correct horizontally with the reticle or dial if my elevation is off.

With a 2nd focal plane scope, you limit your ability to use your reticle for corrections to the max power, and this greatly limits your FOV.

Shoot enough at ranges beyond 500 yards, and you'll want a FFP scope.

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I appreciate the insight. I've been shooting primarily SFP scopes for over 10 years, but very little in a precision / mid-to-long range shooting context. I'm a little out of my element here, so maybe I don't actually know what I want as much as I thought I did.

With that said, and it may entirely be my inexperience, I still have a dilemma about how small the reticle will appear to be on low power with these newer 5x magnification range scopes. I know that the broader the magnification range, the more dramatic the visible change in reticle size will be, and I will likely hunt with this rifle. I can't afford to not be able to see the aiming point across the entire magnification range, particularly at the lowest power where it is 90% of the time on a hunt. Substensions and field of view do me no good if the whole reticle is lost in a shadow or on a dark background in the moment when a clear shot opens up.

Perhaps it's is a moot point and I'm just over-thinking it, or perhaps not. I hope none of this comes off as being argumentative or obstinate. I came here to learn something new, not to defend a preexisting notion. This will be a higher-end optic than I'm used to, and I might just have to get a model with illumination (and utilize it) to help counteract the fading visibility of a FFP reticle at low power.

If you folks think FFP is best given the parameters I'll be using it for, then I almost need to start my search all over again since it changes the playing field. I might have previously ruled something out I shouldn't have, etc.

 

[Raptor005]

OuTkAsT - Have you used an FFP scope before? I would recommend trying one out before ruling them out. Although the reticle does adjust with the magnification, it never becomes unusable when the magnification is at the minimum power.

Good luck with the purchase!

 

[NovaHunter]

I appreciate the insight. I've been shooting primarily SFP scopes for over 10 years, but very little in a precision / mid-to-long range shooting context. I'm a little out of my element here, so maybe I don't actually know what I want as much as I thought I did.

With that said, and it may entirely be my inexperience, I still have a dilemma about how small the reticle will appear to be on low power with these newer 5x magnification range scopes. I know that the broader the magnification range, the more dramatic the visible change in reticle size will be, and I will likely hunt with this rifle. I can't afford to not be able to see the aiming point across the entire magnification range, particularly at the lowest power where it is 90% of the time on a hunt. Substensions and field of view do me no good if the whole reticle is lost in a shadow or on a dark background in the moment when a clear shot opens up.

Perhaps it's is a moot point and I'm just over-thinking it, or perhaps not. I hope none of this comes off as being argumentative or obstinate. I came here to learn something new, not to defend a preexisting notion. This will be a higher-end optic than I'm used to, and I might just have to get a model with illumination (and utilize it) to help counteract the fading visibility of a FFP reticle at low power.

If you folks think FFP is best given the parameters I'll be using it for, then I almost need to start my search all over again since it changes the playing field. I might have previously ruled something out I shouldn't have, etc.

Illuminated reticles mitigate losing the reticle in a dark background.

If you are shooting at 5x, you aren't shooting far enough to use mutliple aiming points. You just need to know center. The PST's are illuminated so that will help you with that.

If the reticle wasn't illuminated I completely agree that it could get lost on a dark backgroud. I actually have a FFP scope on my AR that is not illuminated and wish it was for this reason. My Razor is illuminated and I haven't had an issue at low power because of it.


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[NovaHunter]

Btw, I don't think you are being argumentative at all. Discussions are good. When it comes too it, you need to buy the scope you are happy with.

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[ZG47A]

Kahles introduced fully multi-coated scopes in 1972. In the early 1990s Leupold had a single 6x hunting scope with fully multi-coated lenses. Swarovski Optik spent millions on new production equipment before introducing the Z6 scopes. Leupold brought out a range of 30mm tube scopes with side-parallax adjustment and tried to make them with old equipment that was neither designed nor built to provide the necessary level of precision, As a result, they had a ridiculous percentage of warranty returns in New Zealand.

Leupold make good (but not excellent) hunting scopes and I have done very well out of their excellent warranty service BUT ... it took them decades to produce a version of their 6.5-20x40 scope that will reliably adjust below 100 yards without fitting a special adaptor to the objective housing. Weaver K and V series AO scopes have always had that facility!

Horses for courses!

 

[TMR137]

I used SFP scopes on everything for years, mostly MK4's because I did and still do have a love for Luepold. That being said, I have moved into long range shooting over the past couple of years and now I don't own a SFP scope. Everything has been swapped over to FFP. The advantages of FFP really do far surpass the cons compared to a SFP for field work. I have never had an issue with the reticle on the low end. My current hunting rifle wears the NF SHV F1 4-14 with Mil-R reticle. It is, in my opinion anyways, a fabulous scope for this purpose. The glass is typical NF and the mechanics are the best I have found in the price point.

I would recomend maybe maybe reaching out to people in your area and having a range day or swing past a local match. I know there are people on this forum from all over and we are all willing to help each other out. Get behind some different scope and see how they are to your eye. That is really the only way to see exactly what you want to own. Several people did this for me when I began my venture in LRP and it was invaluable.

Good luck and let us know what else we can do to help!

 

[DuneShoot]

0utkast-I have a NF F1 scope you can look through. Also have a smaller NF F2 you can look through.
For me I always use my scopes at max power. This is for target shooting. So 1st focal IMO isn't critical for my uses.
Also NF illuminated reticles can not be seen during the day.

I'm also in the market for another scope. I'm thinking somewhere in the 3-18 or 5-25 range for a 6.5 grendel.
Can't decide between a Nightforce ATACR or SHV.

 

[0uTkAsT]

Thank you all very much for the helpful replies!

You have made my mind up for me, and I'm probably going with the Gen 2 PST 3-15 FFP with the MOA reticle/turrets. A ~$1,000 optic is probably quite inexpensive for most folks on this board, but it will be one of the most expensive I have ever purchased so I am really grateful to you all for helping me make the right choice.

For some reason I'm having issues with the website right now, so I can't quote anyone to reply directly.
Raptor005 I have very limited experience with FFP scopes. Everything I currently own is SFP. The last FFP scope I owned was a Burris XTR II and I sold it because I was having issues with it.
NovaHunter that information you provided was extremely helpful. It only makes sense that the illumination mitigates the disadvantages of fine crosshairs in the reticle at low power... I just have never utilized illumination in such a sense before.
TMR137 again, thank you very much for the thoughtful response. It puts me at ease.

 

[NovaHunter]

Gen 2 PST looks like a really good scope. You'll be happy with it.

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[Raptor005]

You'll definitely be happy with the PST.

 

[osu92]

I just had an opportunity to shoot the LRP quite a bunch over the last couple of days. I'll give you the turrets aren't the most eye appealing turrets out there, but functionally, they performed great. The revolution indicator deal it incorporates makes it pretty easy to track where you are and the zero stop worked well. The integral throw levers on the scopes were also a very nice feature with like three or four sizes of levers to choose from (and they're super simple to change out). The glass was very clear and the turrets tracked very well shooting targets from 100-1000. Overall, it seems like a pretty nice scope for the money. I get that it might not appeal to everyones sense of sexy though.

And I love the comparisons of Vortex's warranty to Leupolds. To imply Leupold's isn't as good is ridiculous. Leupold has had a full lifetime guarantee for over 100 years. No original owner requirement, no registration card, nothing. It breaks, they'll fix it or replace it.

 

[0uTkAsT]

I just had an opportunity to shoot the LRP quite a bunch over the last couple of days. I'll give you the turrets aren't the most eye appealing turrets out there, but functionally, they performed great. The revolution indicator deal it incorporates makes it pretty easy to track where you are and the zero stop worked well. The integral throw levers on the scopes were also a very nice feature with like three or four sizes of levers to choose from (and they're super simple to change out). The glass was very clear and the turrets tracked very well shooting targets from 100-1000. Overall, it seems like a pretty nice scope for the money. I get that it might not appeal to everyones sense of sexy though.

And I love the comparisons of Vortex's warranty to Leupolds. To imply Leupold's isn't as good is ridiculous. Leupold has had a full lifetime guarantee for over 100 years. No original owner requirement, no registration card, nothing. It breaks, they'll fix it or replace it.

Thanks for the first-hand feedback on the LRP! Now that I have been talked into an illuminated FFP scope, it almost pains me to reconsider the Leupold again, ha! It seemed ideal two weeks ago, now I'm not so sure after reading all the suggestions from others on what I should be looking for in my next scope.

 

[scudzuki]

Personally I'd steer clear of any Leupold optic until it's been out for a while and other reputable users can weigh in on it. Other than Mk 6 and Mk 8 scopes, Leupold hasn't introduced anything based on new designs in a decade. I've seen a Mk 4 6.5-20 (that's a 3x erector) advertised for near $2k up until recently. That's a friggin joke IMHO.

 

[BCP]

I got one of the 4-14 LRPs for 725 from an ebay seller, it's sitting in front of me right now. Looks to be the same as my older 4-14 mark 4 with the exception of the turret box. If the mechanicals hold up I'll be happy with it.

And before anyone asks 1) yes it is genuine, serial number etc all checks out and 2) no the glass isn't a super upgrade from the "old" ones, it looks no different than my VXR or Vari-X III's and a tad behind my LRHS in resolution.

 

[barrelobstruction]

I second the opinion to check out a front focal scope before buying. They are very useful but you may just not like it. IMHO if it's 5 or 6x zoom the reticle can't be optimized for both so you either have a hard time finding it at low or the features are too big at high. I've shot/handled Leupolds and Vortex and both print good groups for me. The weight is the most obvious difference. Not sure what Vortex is doing to make their stuff so heavy. Nightforce doesn't seem to have that problem and their stuff works good too.

 

[dannySH]

Not sure what Vortex is doing to make their stuff so heavy. Nightforce doesn't seem to have that problem and their stuff works good too.

They make the Razor AMG that is lighter than the NF


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[.30kal]

I'd be looking at a Bushnell LRHS 4-18x. You should be able to find a good deal on a lightly used one in the PX.

 

[Duffman1975]

Personally I'd steer clear of any Leupold optic until it's been out for a while and other reputable users can weigh in on it. Other than Mk 6 and Mk 8 scopes, Leupold hasn't introduced anything based on new designs in a decade. I've seen a Mk 4 6.5-20 (that's a 3x erector) advertised for near $2k up until recently. That's a friggin joke IMHO.

I actually have the exact opposite opinion, which i why i ordered an LRP. I would stay away from the PST gen II until A. It's actually available, B. its been vetted for a while. The Gen II is a completely redesign of the original, and its on completely new optical system of a 5x erector (which means all internals need to be redesigned ). This is going to be problematic, which is why they have been pushing back the availability of the PST Gen II's until their manufactures overseas can get the build right and it passes testing.

The VX-3i has been out for over a year, and on a very well proven 3x system. Given the reputation of the VX-3 line, and the fact the LRP is lighter, has a better eye box, cheaper, and Made in America, my decision was pretty easy.

YMMV

 

[CharlieKilo]

Duff, are you speculating about problems with the PST Gen II or do you have some inside knowledge? I've been reading everything I can about that scope as I've got one on order and I haven't seen anything about there being problems with it. I understand whenever a new product comes out there can be issues, however, pushing back availability because the mfg can't get it right is not something I've heard yet. Just curious.

 

[brix8984]

I actually have the exact opposite opinion, which i why i ordered an LRP. I would stay away from the PST gen II until A. It's actually available, B. its been vetted for a while. The Gen II is a completely redesign of the original, and its on completely new optical system of a 5x erector (which means all internals need to be redesigned ). This is going to be problematic, which is why they have been pushing back the availability of the PST Gen II's until their manufactures overseas can get the build right and it passes testing.

The VX-3i has been out for over a year, and on a very well proven 3x system. Given the reputation of the VX-3 line, and the fact the LRP is lighter, has a better eye box, cheaper, and Made in America, my decision was pretty easy.

YMMV

Made in America? You mean assembled in America correct? This is one thing I can't stand about leupold (and they do make some great stuff). I feel like they try to deceive people into thinking they are getting an American made product when in all actuality they are not. Yes it is more American made than optics from china or Japan or the Philippines but it just erks me that they try to deceive the consumer. Imho

With vortex on the other hand I feel that they are open and upfront about this. Even on there amg lines when they had to source the reticle from Europe it clearly states on the optic that it is made in the USA with a reticle from Germany or the U.K.

 

[roggom]

It really comes down to this, Vortex and Leupold are both solid companies, and make good optics. Both have great no BS warranties and when the time comes, they both will take care of you (for the most part).

Both companies have released new scopes because the market demands certain features and quality at a given price point. If Vortex always got it right, then there would not be a PST Gen II, Razor Gen II, AMG, etc . Same with Leupold, scrapping the Gen 1 VX6 etc.

I was in need of a sub $1k light, FFP, Mil/Mil , ZS with enough elevation to reach out to 1200 for local matches. I searched and the LRP seems to have everything I need, it comes in next week and I have a shoot in two weeks, it will either work or I will sell it. That simple.

 

[Rob01]

It really comes down to this, Vortex and Leupold are both solid companies, and make good optics. Both have great no BS warranties and when the time comes, they both will take care of you (for the most part).

Both companies have released new scopes because the market demands certain features and quality at a given price point. If Vortex always got it right, then there would not be a PST Gen II, Razor Gen II, AMG, etc . Same with Leupold, scrapping the Gen 1 VX6 etc.

I was in need of a sub $1k light, FFP, Mil/Mil , ZS with enough elevation to reach out to 1200 for local matches. I searched and the LRP seems to have everything I need, it comes in next week and I have a shoot in two weeks, it will either work or I will sell it. That simple.

Actually to clarify, the Gen II PST is the only one that was replacing an existing line. They listened to complaints about the PST line and went about fixing them and putting out a better optic. The Razor II was a totally different line. It didn't replace the Razor. The AMG line is also a totally new product line. Not replacing anything.

 

[osu92]

Made in America? You mean assembled in America correct? This is one thing I can't stand about leupold (and they do make some great stuff). I feel like they try to deceive people into thinking they are getting an American made product when in all actuality they are not. Yes it is more American made than optics from china or Japan or the Philippines but it just erks me that they try to deceive the consumer. Imho

With vortex on the other hand I feel that they are open and upfront about this. Even on there amg lines when they had to source the reticle from Europe it clearly states on the optic that it is made in the USA with a reticle from Germany or the U.K.

Please explain for the audience just what you believe Leupold is not making in the US besides the glass which they're very open about sourcing from overseas...

 

[Duffman1975]

Made in America? You mean assembled in America correct? This is one thing I can't stand about leupold (and they do make some great stuff). I feel like they try to deceive people into thinking they are getting an American made product when in all actuality they are not. Yes it is more American made than optics from china or Japan or the Philippines but it just erks me that they try to deceive the consumer. Imho

With vortex on the other hand I feel that they are open and upfront about this. Even on there amg lines when they had to source the reticle from Europe it clearly states on the optic that it is made in the USA with a reticle from Germany or the U.K.

I think you are confusing Leupold with Nightforce. Leupold has been very unfront about what they do. They design (with over 100 engineers) , manufacture (from raw US steel/aluminum bars), and assemble in the USA. They employee 700 Americans in Oregon at their facility.

This information I just stated above is all available from simple google/YouTube research.

 

[brix8984]

I may have misspoken some. They do design and assemble and make a lot of parts in Oregon and I think that is great! I however still feel that there advertising is a bit off. It does state clearly that they ourtsource glass and certain components on there website but it is there advertisin .such as banners and magazine adds that I find misleading. If you ask around to your average hunter or shooter who doesn't spend a lot of time reading and researching they will most often tell you that they believe that there leupold is "made in America" where that is a half truth imho. I agree that the consumer should know what they are getting but most consumers don't. After reading your comments though I realize I am probably being to harsh on this and should give them more credit for what they are doing here.

 

[brix8984]

I might add I was definitely the average consumer for some time until I really got interested in good glass for hunting.

 

[Duffman1975]

There are reported issues already in these forums of the PST Gen II's having issues with the illumination and the elevation dials coming off. Just FYI.

 

[SHGMac]

Duff, are you speculating about problems with the PST Gen II or do you have some inside knowledge? I've been reading everything I can about that scope as I've got one on order and I haven't seen anything about there being problems with it. I understand whenever a new product comes out there can be issues, however, pushing back availability because the mfg can't get it right is not something I've heard yet. Just curious.

I saw a guy at the range this weekend unscrew his elevation adjustment. It just popped off the scope! I don't think it's a hard problem to solve, but makes me worried about what else could be missing, out of print, or installed incorrectly. I went with an LRP 4.5-14x50 TMR FFP just to see if this not-mark4-replacement was any good. The elevation adjustment is gangly, and the size of a shot glass, but it works great. I actually like what they did with the rev counter. I'm getting sub 1" box drill groups at 100yds running store bought match grade HPBT 308. The best part about this scope is that I haven't had to ship it back to the manufacturer because a piece of it just fell off. We all get hung up on the latest features, but, for me... dependability is KING. So far so good....

 

[Rob01]

If there is an issue Vortex is already on top of it. It's a new product hitting the market and they don't want any issues anymore than any of the customers.

 

[SHGMac]

They make the Razor AMG that is lighter than the NF

There is no shortage of negative PST posts out there. Whether it be Snipershide, or any of the other 6 or so key forums, and the Facebook long range group that is well into the 40,000 member range now. What happens most of the time... wait... I mean ALL OF THE TIME is someone defending Vortex with a completely different product line, made in a completely different company by a completely different manufacturer. It's like when your buddy comes over with his 90Lb black lab, dog takes a massive steaming shit right on your kitchen floor, but then your buddy proceeds to talk about how well the dog can fetch a tennis ball. I don't see Sig doing this. I don't see NF doing this. I don't see Leupold doing this. It's a bad look.

 

[dannySH]

There is no shortage of negative PST posts out there. Whether it be Snipershide, or any of the other 6 or so key forums, and the Facebook long range group that is well into the 40,000 member range now. What happens most of the time... wait... I mean ALL OF THE TIME is someone defending Vortex with a completely different product line, made in a completely different company by a completely different manufacturer. It's like when your buddy comes over with his 90Lb black lab, dog takes a massive steaming shit right on your kitchen floor, but then your buddy proceeds to talk about how well the dog can fetch a tennis ball. I don't see Sig doing this. I don't see NF doing this. I don't see Leupold doing this. It's a bad look.

I think you better re read the whole thread, nobody is defending anything just appointing a FACT. This is what was posted before

Question
Originally posted by barrelobstruction

Not sure what Vortex is doing to make their stuff so heavy. Nightforce doesn't seem to have that problem and their stuff works good too.

Answer posted by me

They make the Razor AMG that is lighter than the NF

Simple.


Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk

 

[bigwatchpilot]

Before anyone 'talks you into' anything go with what you want period. It sounds like you are Leupolds target customer with the LRP. You dont NEED any of the bells and whistles mentioned. If you want MOA stick with MOA, you dont NEED FFP...most ranges are all known distance or you have a laser range finder. If you are at the range 90% of everyone is always at Max magnification so you can see and make your own shot corrections otherwise you have a spotter, SFP has worked for a long time and always will. I have sold all but 2 of my Vortex a PST 1-4 and my Razor 4-27, sold the other 4 PST's I had. I have more Leupolds than any other scope. I only have 1 Nightforce left out the the 3 I have had.

I have 3 types of rifles...hunting, hunting/target, and target. I thought I needed tacticool Mil/FFP/Big Magnification on all of them. Slowly I moved back to a more versatile hunting scope and Leupold fits the bill nice, love their scopes. I have NOT looked at the LPR, I think its intended for a budget minded 1st time getting into longer range target shooting. The biggest factor on my hunting/target rifles are the reticle...I hunt mostly woods and thin crosshair target style gets lost and hard to see. The NF IHR is great love it and same for Leupolds Firedot. If you are going to spend this much on a scope its a tough decision. The SHV is great also and you can pick up a used one for around $800ish. As neat as the Firedot is you don't need illumination either.

If you hunt fields and big open spaces then the target style reticle works well...not so much in the woods IHO. I personally have been buying the VX-6's on clearance. 3-18 with CDS-ZL take me out to 700 yards on my hunting/target rifles for around $750.

BWP