Torn between two rifles for my first "real" bolt gun

[Djstorm100]

I'm looking for a foundation that is solid that I can grow and learn off of. Kinda like a house as threw the years one upgrades the kitchen, living room, floors, etc. This would the same as upgrading the stock, trigger and barrel. I have hunting rifle now that are old, or been in the family for some time and I do not want to hack them up because of the sentimental value. I'm a huge DYI type guy, yes I own a dremel but no it doesn't touch my firearms. I'm very confident in my work and not afraid to ask questions. I love learning how things work and why doing this modification helps the rifle and how to do it correctly. I am not afraid to invest in the correct tools to do the job IE re-barrel the Remington.

I'm torn between the Remington 700 AAC-SD

Goal: Further learn the fundamentals on precision shooting, being able to go to DMR matches and ring 6 (1 MOA) to 10 inch steel at 600 yards and maybe even go out to 1000 yards. The foundation needs to be great because as my skills develop, I want to be able to upgrade the rifle on my own.

Pros: 20inch barrel in .308 1:10 twist and
Already threaded ( I have a 7.62-SDN-6 can that I use on my AR's)
Many many parts, the 700 is like the Honda civic in the car world. Can make it look good or riced the hell out.

Cons: Not the same company they once were
Gunsmith would have to true the action and work it a little.


Savage 10 series (Law Enforcement)
I'm looking at the Precision Carbine basically the same specs as the Remmy or get 10 FCP McMillan

Pros: Floating bolt head (this could be both a con/pro)
The famous barrel nut, I though about after I get some trigger time (2-3 years) to swapping the barrel out to 6.5 creedmore or 260rem.

Con: The action feels like it is riding over MOAB or some off road adventure. It feels so gritty and is not smooth, this may or may not clear up as the action is worked.

My Pit "Remmy" said I should get the Remington.

 

[TacosGigante]

I would go Remington because of the better aftermarket/gunsmith support and resale market. I owned a Savage, it was good, but when it came time to sell it and the gun-specific accessories I took a bath.

 

[BoilerUP]

The Savage feel will improve with use, and a little DIY and a $8 bolt lift kit from Stockade can improve it even more.

All things equal, the action will only be as "good" feeling as a loved 700 after a time/true job from SSS or Stockade and a factory Tikka makes both feel like crap.

If you want the 700 get the 700; if you are interested in a Savage, buying used or building your own is a great option.

 

[Djstorm100]

Something I forgot to add and is important.

I'm a lefty but I order to get a rifle that is anything I want (IE above models) it would turn more in to a custom build.

 

[strike33]

CUSTOM REM 700 VARMINT 308 WIN 26" LH LEFT HAND HS : Bolt Action Rifles at GunBroker.com
Have the barrel cut and threaded...cheap

 

[roggom]

Knowing what I know now for an out of the box rifle I would choose a Tikka over Remington. Precision machining, no need to true anything, nor change trigger, quality barrel and dbm (CTR is metal). You can get one threaded and in either 308 or 260.

Other than that, go custom. I only say this because I went the "build a gun" route and in the end I spent more money than a modest custom rifle and ended up with a mediocre rifle. Shoots decent, but my Tikka out of the box shamed both of my Remmys.

I am not hating on Remington, but I had purchased a "no-go" guage to check out a C&R rifle, and used it on both my Remington 308's. Both rifles swallowed the no-go guage. That is bullshit.

I still use them as they passed the field guage, but that is just shitty machining.

 

[Deadshot2]

There's a good reason why there is more aftermarket support for Remington 700's. They're great rifles. If you buy one of the "Walmart" models you shouldn't expect much. If pure accuracy, yet having a good "base" for a future build, consider a 5-R Milspec. A great Remington that shoots great right out of the box (mine was capable of sub 1/4 MOA with handloads from the get-go). The trigger on the Remington sucks unless it has a 40-X so just budget and extra $125 for a Timney 510 or $210 for their new "Calvin Elite" 510 CE. I'm shooting one of those now and it's a great trigger. I have mine set at a nice even 8 oz. If I want a heavier trigger I can just swap back the 510 that Timney just rebuilt for me no-charge (actually replaced with new as my old one didn't meet their standards for even trigger pull after all the use I put on it).

 

[deadnbrkn84]

I know everyone wants a Remington for some unknown reason but the fact is that you can get a much better gun if you get a Tikka. They are so much better in every way. I went down this path like so many on this board have. My first was a AAC-SD, but the fact is you can only polish a turd so much. At the end of the day it was still a sloppy 700 action that I had to replace everything touching it to make marginally better. It needed a bolt handle, rail, trigger, trued, blueprinted, blah blah blah. And for what? So you can still have a shitty 700 action?

Pickup a Tikka, they are LEAGUES better, the factory trigger is good, the action is very smooth, and put it in whatever stock you want and go to town. You will save your self SO many headaches, and time, and will have a better action then either of the two mentioned. If you want something better then that down the road then save up and buy a custom gun, but at least while you're saving you won't be using a shitty action the whole time.

 

[Djstorm100]

There's a good reason why there is more aftermarket support for Remington 700's. They're great rifles. If you buy one of the "Walmart" models you shouldn't expect much. If pure accuracy, yet having a good "base" for a future build, consider a 5-R Milspec. A great Remington that shoots great right out of the box (mine was capable of sub 1/4 MOA with handloads from the get-go). The trigger on the Remington sucks unless it has a 40-X so just budget and extra $125 for a Timney 510 or $210 for their new "Calvin Elite" 510 CE. I'm shooting one of those now and it's a great trigger. I have mine set at a nice even 8 oz. If I want a heavier trigger I can just swap back the 510 that Timney just rebuilt for me no-charge (actually replaced with new as my old one didn't meet their standards for even trigger pull after all the use I put on it).

Is there a difference in the SPS Tactial AAC that walmart sells vs the same firearm from a firearm dealer??

The Tikka T3 Tac is $1,550 more than double the price of the AAC-SD.

 

[BoilerUP]

The Tikka T3 Tac is $1,550 more than double the price of the AAC-SD.

Look at the T3 CTR, which will soon be available from EuroOptic for about $950.

Yup its more expensive than the AAC-SD - it also comes with a DBM (using expensive TRG-22 magazines, which you can sell if you drop the rifle into a chassis or stock/DBM that uses AICS magazines) and is arguably a better action.

 

[roggom]

Is there a difference in the SPS Tactial AAC that walmart sells vs the same firearm from a firearm dealer??

The Tikka T3 Tac is $1,550 more than double the price of the AAC-SD.

He did make a good point, as my remmies where both SPS-tac and Varmint. Although the 700P is the same barreled action as the Varmint (with better coating), but the 5R and LTR have different barrels than the SSD and Tac. All three come with HS precision stocks. The P, LTR, and 5r are all around $1k. Same as a CTR.

Still no excuse for Remington to put out shitty machining. Tikka T3 is the budget Sako, and it is built to the same quality specs as a Sako. If you can get your hands on one, take a look.

If you are dead set on a Remmy, just pick one up from another hider, they pop up quite often.

 

[deadnbrkn84]

I've put in my .02. Doubt anyone will listen because there is so many Remington fans on here but a Tikka is in just about every way a better rifle. I started with an AAC and now shoot two fully custom Defiance action builds. Looking back if I have to do it all over there is no question I'd start with a Tikka. It's LEAGUES better then any Remington. Just go run the bolts on both of them. If that doesn't tell you the difference then I don't know what will.

People are going to promote what they use, it's just the way it is. I'm telling you the honest truth that the Tikka is a better way to go. As I said I've got two $6k match guns in my safe. I'm building a 20 Tactical rat gun. You know what I'm buying to build it off of? Yep, a Tikka because they are as close to a custom feeling action as you're going to get.

 

[4000fps]

Tikka for the win. Been there, done that.

 

[Djstorm100]

I've got to find a dealer with a tikka so I can go put my hands on it


Using tapatalk

 

[deadnbrkn84]

I've got to find a dealer with a tikka so I can go put my hands on it


Using tapatalk

Do it side by side with a remington. The choice will then be easy. I'm going to pick one up from buds for $500 then sell the barrel and stock and put it in an XLR element when he comes out with the Tikka version.

 

[alpha0815]

You will find negative reviews about the 700 SPS Tactical just like you will the Savage 10. I'm about to purchase a Savage 12 LRP soon, but after countless hours of research, it seems that Savage has been hit or miss since around the time ATK acquired. Could be a coincidence.

Either way, I don't think you could go wrong with either. I have a semi-custom 700 and a 700 SPS Tactical AAC-SD in a B&C A2 style stock w/ Vortex Viper PST. Stock trigger and stock everything else. I shot yesterday with FGMM 168 SMK and got the best 5-shot group ever with it. I was on a law enforcement range that doesn't allow to go down range to verify, but at 100 yards I had 4 shots in one hole and 1 about 1/2" off from the group. Needless to say, I am very satisfied with my 700 AAC

Good luck

EDIT: Definitely take a look at the Tikka CTR ($900 +/-) or the Tikka Varmint ($800 +/-). I've shot a CTR and it was sweet. Plenty of out the box accuracy and the action is legit.

 

[SRSDriver]

I agree, Tikka. The factory trigger is as good as some other guns in the 2-4k range.

 

[bogeybrown]

I just went through this debate with myself when I decided I wanted to screw around with a .223 bolt gun. I can't just buy an off the shelf Remington anymore. I'm spoiled and would have been buying the rifle for the action and ditching everything else. Being a .223 I just can't justify the expense of a custom build.
This got me looking at Savage, which is super cheap, but I'd probably still end up dicking around with until it was how I wanted it.

I realized that the Tikka really was THE option for me in a semi-affordable package. In order to utilize the AICS mags I was going to wait for the Element chassis to be ready, but in the meantime found a fair deal here on the hide for a T3 Varmint already sitting in an Evolution Chassis. Problem solved.

Because I'm incapable of NOT fucking with rifles, I may consider having the 24" barrel taken down by a few inches and threaded, but that's in no way essential and would just be a personal preference for me.

I couldn't justify the huge price jump to go to the tactical model, but in the under $1k category, I didn't see anything else that provided the value in my opinion that the Tikka did.

 

[the once-ler]

I built an incredibly accurate and very smooth custom rifle for not more than the cost of the parts off a Rem 700. I used a PTG bolt and a Bartlien barrel. Did everything except the thread and chamber myself. Looks beautiful and is a 5 shot 1/4" gun. Every time I take it to the range I have offers to sell it.
Look at Tac-Ops they use cheap Remmy actions and they are fetching <>5k a pop.

 

[fireEMT5]

As an owner of 2 Savage 10PC's - 1 in .308 and 1 in .223, I would certainly do it again. With a little time spent finding a load via the OCW method both rifles shoots as well as I'm capable of. A Savage may not be a pretty, or have quite all the aftermarket support, but being able to tinker and switch things out myself makes up for it. I can't see giving someone else cash for things I can do myself with minimal investment. YMMV.

 

[JB02]

Remington 700 AAC-SD

Cons: Not the same company they once were
Gunsmith would have to true the action and work it a little.

Most gunsmiths recommend against truing unless you are going to replace the barrel. When they single point cut the receiver, the tenon threads are oversized and won't fit on the breach end threads unless they are recut; all of that labor is rather pointless on a factory barrel because it doesn't buy you much.

If you are looking for an entry rifle, go with a Rem 700 5R or go with a Tikka. With the 5R you'll want to upgrade the trigger and invest in some aftermarket bottom metal that accepts AICS mags (or a chassis system like the XLR element). The Tikka has some warts but they are not as bad as Remington's.

 

[HodgdonExtreme]

My advice is to avoid both Remington AND Savage - for reasons well covered above.

I can advocate the Tikka, which is certainly a quality rifle, but dollar for dollar, the HOWA 1500 is the way to go.

The Howa is good enough to cost significantly more than either the Remington or Savage, yet costs less.

 

[aahunt03]

remington

 

[Muldoon7]

My aac sd has had no problems next time I go out I'll take some pics of my groups just for the purpose of these threads. Personally I think the gun is more than capable it rests in the shooters hands

 

[346ci]

If you like building your own, go with a Savage. I just had my 10PC rebuilt to a 6.5 CM and must say she is sweet.

I also have a Tikka build in the works and the few I have played with seemed like a really nice rig. It may end up being my favorite..

No remy love here, dumped my 700 stuff after going to Savage.

 

[4000fps]

Tikka = side bolt release, safe and adjustable trigger, sako extractor, 70 degree bolt lift, removable bolt handle. What does Remington bring to the table?

 

[wade-19]

Tikka = side bolt release, safe and adjustable trigger, sako extractor, 70 degree bolt lift, removable bolt handle. What does Remington bring to the table?

A short action receiver, if that is important to the end user.

 

[mwroseberry]

I'm sorry some of the arguments above crack me up. Here is my $0.02:

The factory Remington Action is WAY behind the power curve. If you look at any custom action it is either perfectly round (a tube) or much thicker and in an octagon shape design. The remington is not a perfectly round action. If you are on a budget and can't afford a custom action then you do have the options listed above as good starter actions "Remington and Savage". Both can be made into extremely capable rigs. If you are going short action the Savage action in my opinion walks away from the Remington due to the action being able to accept longer OAL length rounds without needing to be opened up. The savage short action also has excellent stock and chassis options with only a select few manufactures not offering options for them. The barrel change design makes them great for someone starting in long range shooting and cuts down on smith fees. Also a Rifle basix trigger and bolt lift kit for under 125.00 total makes them much better than anything Remington offers for that dollar figure. Any barrel can be fitted to a savage and most manufactures that offer a pre-fit makes them MUCH cheaper to put on.

When it comes to long action the Remington is the winner mainly because of Manufacturer support of rifle stocks. I went Remington on my 7mm rem mag only because I knew one day I was going to a custom action and if I went Remington I could easily keep my same stock and other accessories when I went to the custom action. The triggers are much more expensive and the ejectors in my opinion aren't as durable.

So for the reasons listed above if you can't afford a custom action and are going short action go savage, long action go Remington but these are just my opinions.

Also to the person saying not to go with a "walmart remington". Here is my Walmart action sporting Remington





And with some Help with Tom Sarver at TVP with a Barrel install and inlet on the AICS chassis i got through him:



Good Luck,
Merritt

 

[P Henry]

Just piling on now, but +1 on the Tikka.

 

[Djstorm100]

I've called all the dealers in my area none have Tikka or even carry them. Since I can't hold it, I really don't want to spend the money without checking it out first.

...Thoughts on the setup?

Game Plan:

What thoughts on 700 AAC-SD and shooting (precision) out to 100 yards vs 22-24 inch setup? My concern is giving up accuracy/velocity for a shorter barrel (20 vs 22-24")

Here's what I'm thinking.

700 Rem AAC-SD $639 OTD
Bell and Carlson Tac, fully Adj.Bell & Carlson Tactical Medalist Style 5 Fully Adjustable - Remington 700 BDL (SPS, XCR, VTR) , Weatherby Mk V, Savage 10/12 - #2094, 2098, 6629, 2097

--OR--
Bell and Carlson M40 style stock

Vortex Viper PST 6x24-50 FFP
Badger Ordance 1 pc 20moa rail
M5 Stealth mag system 5rd/10rd
Nice rings Badger probably.
AAC Brakeout 2.0
Timney 510 Trigger

 

[deadnbrkn84]

You're going to waste a ton of money going this route. Order a darn Tikka then when you go to the range you can fondle someone else's remington a go home, have a beer and relish in the fact that you didn't make a stupid move. We are all trying to tell you Tikka because we've BEEN DOWN THIS ROAD.

 

[Deadshot2]

I've called all the dealers in my area none have Tikka or even carry them. Since I can't hold it, I really don't want to spend the money without checking it out first.

...Thoughts on the setup?

Game Plan:

What thoughts on 700 AAC-SD and shooting (precision) out to 100 yards vs 22-24 inch setup? My concern is giving up accuracy/velocity for a shorter barrel (20 vs 22-24")

Here's what I'm thinking.

700 Rem AAC-SD $639 OTD
Bell and Carlson Tac, fully Adj.Bell & Carlson Tactical Medalist Style 5 Fully Adjustable - Remington 700 BDL (SPS, XCR, VTR) , Weatherby Mk V, Savage 10/12 - #2094, 2098, 6629, 2097

--OR--
Bell and Carlson M40 style stock

Vortex Viper PST 6x24-50 FFP
Badger Ordance 1 pc 20moa rail
M5 Stealth mag system 5rd/10rd
Nice rings Badger probably.
AAC Brakeout 2.0
Timney 510 Trigger

Everyone has their favorite. Apparently this is "Tikka month".

I'm headed to the range with my Remington 700 on a B&C 2094 stock along with Timney 510CE trigger and NF 12-42X56 NXS. I assure you that it will shoot every bit as well as any Tikka. Would I consider a Tikka? Sure. But it's not the ONLY rifle out there that will "shoot". Do people like theirs? You bet. So do those of us who have Remingtons that shoot well.

Consider this. More rifles shoot well because of good shooters than because of the name on the side of the action.

 

[BoilerUP]

More rifles shoot well because of good shooters than because of the name on the side of the action.

If that's the case, the OP should definitely get a Savage.

 

[Djstorm100]

You're going to waste a ton of money going this route. Order a darn Tikka then when you go to the range you can fondle someone else's remington a go home, have a beer and relish in the fact that you didn't make a stupid move. We are all trying to tell you Tikka because we've BEEN DOWN THIS ROAD.

While I appreciate and understand your point of view, I am not going to throw money at something unless I can check it out first. You would buy a car and not test drive it or sit in it or give it a look over?

I had bought a rifle this past weekend which started life out as a Dicks SPS Varmint (Link:http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...fles/263137-thoughts-rifle-starter-rifle.html) anyway found rust in the receiver. At first thought it was the copper solvent that I've seen in Remington before but it was not solvent. Anyway it shot 5 round group that was almost a ragged hole. measured 0.7 and shot a 6 inch group at 800 with 175SMK.

 

[shamir]

I've put in my .02. Doubt anyone will listen because there is so many Remington fans on here but a Tikka is in just about every way a better rifle. I started with an AAC and now shoot two fully custom Defiance action builds. Looking back if I have to do it all over there is no question I'd start with a Tikka. It's LEAGUES better then any Remington. Just go run the bolts on both of them. If that doesn't tell you the difference then I don't know what will.

People are going to promote what they use, it's just the way it is. I'm telling you the honest truth that the Tikka is a better way to go. As I said I've got two $6k match guns in my safe. I'm building a 20 Tactical rat gun. You know what I'm buying to build it off of? Yep, a Tikka because they are as close to a custom feeling action as you're going to get.

Since when have you been a Tikka fan deadnbrkn84 ? I thought you were a custom action guy .

But yes, couldn't agree more. I have a Tikka T3 Sporter in .260 that's in an X-ray stock, a T3 CTR in .308 on the way which will get put into an X-ray as well, and my next build will be a T3 in 6mm Creedmoor that will go into a Whiskey 3. All of them shoot better than I do.

 

[RTH1800]

It is a buyers market right now. I would suggest you simply watch the ad's on custom rifles and find a good one. The DIY idea is an expensive road to a mediocre rifle in a high percentage of cases. Money pit. If you want an amateur build, buy one and let the other amateur take the loss.

 

[deadnbrkn84]

Everyone has their favorite. Apparently this is "Tikka month".

I'm headed to the range with my Remington 700 on a B&C 2094 stock along with Timney 510CE trigger and NF 12-42X56 NXS. I assure you that it will shoot every bit as well as any Tikka. Would I consider a Tikka? Sure. But it's not the ONLY rifle out there that will "shoot". Do people like theirs? You bet. So do those of us who have Remingtons that shoot well.

Consider this. More rifles shoot well because of good shooters than because of the name on the side of the action.

Tikka month? No, if you read this thread I said that I shoot custom Defiance actions. I don't even own a Tikka. What I also said is that it's the closest thing to a "custom action feel" as you're gonna get. They are 10x better then a crappy Remington action. I'm glad that you like yours, and I'm sure it will shoot as well as any Tikka, but it will never feel like one. The point is you spent the same or more money for a sub par action.

 

[QuietShootr]

Yup, fuck some Remington. Went Sako and FN and have never been happier.

If you like building your own, go with a Savage. I just had my 10PC rebuilt to a 6.5 CM and must say she is sweet.

I also have a Tikka build in the works and the few I have played with seemed like a really nice rig. It may end up being my favorite..

No remy love here, dumped my 700 stuff after going to Savage.

 

[Whit]

I have had all three actions. Tikka is a much better feeling then a Remington (factory with no work done). If I was in your shoes I would get the Tikka CTR.

This is how I would place them.
1) Tikka
2) Savage
3) Remington

 

[Nemesis Lead]

I would go Remington because of the better aftermarket/gunsmith support and resale market. I owned a Savage, it was good, but when it came time to sell it and the gun-specific accessories I took a bath.

+1

 

[Nemesis Lead]

I would go Remington because of the better aftermarket/gunsmith support and resale market. I owned a Savage, it was good, but when it came time to sell it and the gun-specific accessories I took a bath.

Sorry--double or triple post!

 

[Djstorm100]

I would go Remington because of the better aftermarket/gunsmith support and resale market. I owned a Savage, it was good, but when it came time to sell it and the gun-specific accessories I took a bath.

This is a big reason why I moved away from Savage I have a habit of building and selling. With this rifle I hope to keep it for a long time and never sell it but life happens.


What thoughts on 700 AAC-SD and shooting (precision) out to 1000 yards vs 22-24 inch setup? My concern is giving up accuracy/velocity for a shorter barrel (20 vs 22-24")

 

[strike33]

This is a big reason why I moved away from Savage I have a habit of building and selling. With this rifle I hope to keep it for a long time and never sell it but life happens.


What thoughts on 700 AAC-SD and shooting (precision) out to 100 yards vs 22-24 inch setup? My concern is giving up accuracy/velocity for a shorter barrel (20 vs 22-24")

100yds? no discernible difference
A shorter barrel is no less accurate. 22" is typically considered the best all purpose length for the 308. A 20" barrel isn't going to give up much..

 

[Djstorm100]

100yds? no discernible difference
A shorter barrel is no less accurate. 22" is typically considered the best all purpose length for the 308. A 20" barrel isn't going to give up much..

Epic fail on my part I meant 1000 yards

 

[BoilerUP]

You won't lose any accuracy with a 20" barrel vs. a 24", you will however lose 60-100fps which obviously means more drop & wind at 1000.

 

[deadnbrkn84]

Since when have you been a Tikka fan deadnbrkn84 ? I thought you were a custom action guy .

I definitely won't part with my custom actions but as far as a "stock" rifle goes Tikka unquestionably gets my vote

 

[Djstorm100]

If I had a custom rig I wouldn't part with it either. Here's why I'm torn. Rifke I got now shoots great but when I got home I found corrosion in the trigger group/ receiver/ scope rail screw and stock hardware had rust. The guy offered to buy it back but knowing my kick I go to get the aac it will shoot like shit. It's my kinda luck lol

 

[Djstorm100]

What ring height would I need with Bell and Clarkson M40 and Vortex 6-24x50. Seekin 20moa rail. Concern with the added comb height my eye might be a little too tall from center of the scope.

 

[BoilerUP]

What ring height would I need with Bell and Clarkson M40 and Vortex 6-24x50. Seekin 20moa rail. Concern with the added comb height my eye might be a little too tall from center of the scope.

Low...

 

[Djstorm100]

Low...

Well shit...I ended up with the Medium .875. Vortex said to use their low which is Seekin Medium.

I couldn't find the base height for Seekins to do the formula that is on here.