Gunsmithing Torque wrench, is to many clicks a bad idea?

Peter83

Sergeant of the Hide
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Mar 25, 2019
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Hi guys, so i mounted a scope the other day for a friend. After it was level, and time to torque it down ( i used the tourqe wrench from Vortex ) he was very specifik on only making 2 clicks on all the screws. first 1 click on all the screws, then go back and in the same order make 1 click again on the wrench. I tottally agree with this method, however the reason he would only have a total of 2 clicks on the screws, was that he said that if you continued to make clicks on the screws, they would over tighten. Now, sometimes i have made 4 - 5 clicks ( one at a time on each screw and in the same order ) just to be sure. I also regually check if the screws are still tight. Is it wrong too click to much with this type of wrench? Will the screws over tighten?

Best regards, Peter
 
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In theory it should not tighten beyond the torque set on the wrench. I never go beyond the first or second click because I do not want to put unnecessary wear on the wrench.
 
Very true. Plus if someone sits there are just keep clicking away at the torque limiter they can get well above the set torque. I think it's all a little over-exaggerated though as consistency is equally important as not breaking a fastener - if you did 5 clicks on all of the screws evenly then call it done really.

What would be a terrible idea is to have one fastener lubricated while random others are not. About 90 percent of the torque is used to overcome friction - not provide clamping force.
 
Very true. Plus if someone sits there are just keep clicking away at the torque limiter they can get well above the set torque. I think it's all a little over-exaggerated though as consistency is equally important as not breaking a fastener - if you did 5 clicks on all of the screws evenly then call it done really.

What would be a terrible idea is to have one fastener lubricated while random others are not. About 90 percent of the torque is used to overcome friction - not provide clamping force.

True, true and more true.
 
In theory it should not tighten beyond the torque set on the wrench. I never go beyond the first or second click because I do not want to put unnecessary wear on the wrench.

is wear something to have in mind when using theese types of wrenches? I havent given wear much thourgt i must admit. However, i do always store them at minimun setting so the spring dont "set". Is there any wear in just making a lot of clicks with the wrench?
 
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Very true. Plus if someone sits there are just keep clicking away at the torque limiter they can get well above the set torque. I think it's all a little over-exaggerated though as consistency is equally important as not breaking a fastener - if you did 5 clicks on all of the screws evenly then call it done really.

What would be a terrible idea is to have one fastener lubricated while random others are not. About 90 percent of the torque is used to overcome friction - not provide clamping force.

Thanks :) I prefer to not lube screws when mounting ring screws, and would never torque anything down if there was inconsistency in screws having / not having any lupe / oil. But thx for mention is :)
 
If you feel the need to re-check things over time, a wrench that does not click is the way to go. Snap on torq o meter or something with a gauge rather.

To avoid exceeding recommended torque values, make the first round a percentage of final torque. With these low numbers, say 80% first round then final torque on second.

As said above, it’s more about consistency from fastener to fastener.
 
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Weren't you the same guy who was sure he made a bulletproof test stand for scope repeatability? But you have to ask how to use a torque wrench.

Werent you that guy that couldent see a problem with a scope where the center crosshair landed 4 clicks further down than were the 10 mil holdover mark was when dialing 10 mil? Now, as far as the question, i have heard diffrent opinions, and i ask what this forum have to say about it. That dosent mean i dont know how to use a torque wrench, but that i would like to hear other opinions. If you keep harassing me like you did in the other post i made, calling me all sorts of things, being extremely rude and hostile when i had been polite to you, i will report you. Just leave me alone, all your comments you have made in my posts have been hostile and rude.
 
Someone on here told a story of shooters, I think it was AMU, that before matches would check torque prior to shooting on their actions.

Just prior to shooting throw the wrench on it and click.

Eventually they snapped an action screw.

Im of the opinion once it clicks once....its done.

Sure bring it to spec in even increments and in a logical pattern but once you hit spec leave it alone.

If you want to check torque - loosen and bring back to spec.

A good wrench I think has a +/- 3% rating. Typical wrenches have about 5% - 6%.

That means you could be getting plus 5% with each extra click or over time.

Why keep pulling your prick after your finished? It can only lead to bad things like chaffing.
 
i go through twice (fix it stick) and then again once after the rifle has been fired.
tbh, i don't really think an extra "click" is going to hurt anything.
 
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Like many subjects, part of the confusion out there comes from a combination of lack of understanding of the science, “old wives’ tales” and contradictory information.

Let me give you the actual facts that are not open to dispute or opinion then those facts can be applied to the individual situation.
As stated by “AIAW”, “Torque” is a power measurement of work in a rotational force that has nothing to do (no direct line whatsoever) between “torque” and tension (clamping force). Also, up to 90% and possibly more can be consumed by friction rather then fastener elongation. (go to boltscience.com and read up)

To make it even more confusing the” clamping force” required by a fastener to even reach minimum tension is a relationship is dependent on the metals used for both the fastener thread and the parent thread. If you exceed the weaker then you start plastic deformation and stripping- if you go to the stronger then you risk damaging a component in the joint (think overtightening a gasket and cutting it)

We have this data on “graded” fasteners (SAE, ASME, ISO etc.) but not on unrated fasteners (which gun screws fall under) such as common hardware grades. That means there is no uniformity whatsoever in metal selection, tempering process (if any) for the fastener or parent material.

That being true then there cannot be any uniform “torqueing” tensioning standard across the optics world because there are too many possible variables.

Technically (in blind holes specifically) when that drop of blue gets in there, you risk false torque tension due to hydraulics.
Also, if the screws are too soft relative to the parent thread then heavy torqueing tensioning will deform the threads and lessen clamping force and it will shoot loose.

Fit class is another consideration when one is wanting a precise and uniform fit but too large to cover in a standard post.

I’ll be the FIRST one to tell anyone about the criticality of PROPER AND EQUAL tension between fasteners in every application (scopes, shaft alignment, flange fit, critical bearing tolerances etc.) because a large part of my career involves fixing things where that guidance wasn’t followed.

That being said, given the unknown grade, metallurgy et al of a set of rings and soft machine screws, my “personal and professional” RECOMMENDATION is to tighten uniformly (wrist or wrench) until the optic is SNUG and stop. (erring on the side of caution) Maybe even a drop of Loctite on the scope tube and lower mount for good measure.

Regarding wet V. dry torque- from a tension perspective there is zero difference because tension has nothing to do with tribology. It can make a difference with the friction using “torque” which is what makes it unreliable when clamping force is required. That said, the anti-galling assistance a wet thread has over a dry one is what keeps me in the lube the thread camp. But ASME and SAE will tell you that’s a major factor in the coating selection on the fastener to determine if wet or dry is recommended. ( just always be mindful of that hydraulically induced false torque)

Trust someone who does critical alignments for a living, a little variance between tension on scope mounts/screws isn’t going to deform or affect anything (assuming proper leveling and axis alignment). Properly snugged with good threads and clean are not going to shoot loose often if ever.

Even if they did I would rather repeat the tensioning operation that possibly induce fatigue, bend or other deformity which might be permanent but that’s just my personal preference.

This applies generally to any fastener in any application excluding special circumstances.

thanks for the detail!

i've wondered about certain torque specs and why they are so (seemingly) critical in certain applications.
for example, the FN Scar barrel retaining bolts require 62 in/lbs or torque, per FN. Not 60, not 63 or 65.
this is apparently important enough for them to have fix it sticks made specifically for 62 in/lbs, and one was included in my field kit.