Trackingpoint firearms are pretty dumb!!

#51
I saw a grenade launcher that did it. You designated a target and pressed a button, the computer got the distance and wind via a laser, the gun whirred to the appropriate elevation and azimuth and you fired it. It would put a single 40mm grenade through a window on the first shot every time. The target I saw it shooting was somewhere around 200m away.

I don't know how a laser gets wind information, but it'd be cool to integrate such a function into a rangefinder. I assume it works like the laser speedometers they use for testing vehicles and whatnot that simply point at the ground?

Edit: I love wikipedia. Don't think it'll be affordable to put on your rifle anytime soon! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_Doppler_velocimetry

damoncali said:
Cool. Does anyone know how well these work? They cold be pretty crappy and still work better than eyeballs.
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#52
To all the haters, Id love to play with one.
Can I shoot targets at 1000 yards and beyond?....yes.
Can I make hit a moa target at 1000 yards everytime....NO!!!!!
Can the top shooters in the world hit a moa plate at 1000yards everytime? (Wade, Shannon, George, Jered, Terry, Morris clan, etc) HECK NO!!! Can they make first round hits on a moa plate at 1000 yards everytime...HECK NO!!!They wouldnt even say they could.


The unit has its place. Its built on premium components and built right. Is it perfect....No

But to each there own.

Anyone who had shot in wind knows that is blows and stops blowing in the blink of an eye. And shooting a 300 Win Mag at distance with just a few mph wind change moves a bullet a pretty good peice.

Lots of internet pirates on here to say the least. WIll a 1300.oo Savage shoot a 13 inch plate at 1000 yards, yes. But IMO Is rather have a custom rifle wich will out shoot a factory gun 99.9% of the time.

OT each there own. Kinda like high fence hunting. If a guy has the money and it makes him happy, go for it. My opinon may differ but im not a hater.

Just sayin
 
#53
JRWALLSIII said:
To all the haters, Id love to play with one.
Can I shoot targets at 1000 yards and beyond?....yes.
Can I make hit a moa target at 1000 yards everytime....NO!!!!!
Can the top shooters in the world hit a moa plate at 1000yards everytime? (Wade, Shannon, George, Jered, Terry, Morris clan, etc) HECK NO!!! Can they make first round hits on a moa plate at 1000 yards everytime...HECK NO!!!They wouldnt even say they could.


The unit has its place. Its built on premium components and built right. Is it perfect....No

But to each there own.

Anyone who had shot in wind knows that is blows and stops blowing in the blink of an eye. And shooting a 300 Win Mag at distance with just a few mph wind change moves a bullet a pretty good peice.

Lots of internet pirates on here to say the least. WIll a 1300.oo Savage shoot a 13 inch plate at 1000 yards, yes. But IMO Is rather have a custom rifle wich will out shoot a factory gun 99.9% of the time.

OT each there own. Kinda like high fence hunting. If a guy has the money and it makes him happy, go for it. My opinon may differ but im not a hater.

Just sayin
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Maybe you need to work on your reading skills a little bit. The issue isn't so much that there's a platform like this as much as it is how the platform is being used when it gut shots an animal. Most of us could give less than a fuck if someone wants to drop the coin, but when they take it and go hunting without a single fucking clue what they're doing and they're not exactly shooting at metal targets. Add: And it's one thing to shoot 1k yards... but their targets were 700 and under.
 
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#55
_Nick_ said:
Maybe you need to work on your reading skills a little bit. The issue isn't so much that there's a platform like this as much as it is how the platform is being used when it gut shots an animal. Most of us could give less than a fuck if someone wants to drop the coin, but when they take it and go hunting without a single fucking clue what they're doing and they're not exactly shooting at metal targets. Add: And it's one thing to shoot 1k yards... but their targets were 700 and under.
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Nice language.... Ive killed more deer than the average guy. Ive shot more rounds down range than the average guy. Ive gut shot deer. I did when I was 6 and it still happens on occasion to this day. If you have ever hunted and killed animals you have gut shot and or missed deer. Anyone who says that they have not is a liar.

Oh and those gut shots were less than 700 yards.

I have seen people gut shoot deer at 50 yards.

Heck I grew up running dogs for deer. Killed a many that way. several were gut shot. Is it unethical....maybe.

How many deer have you seen killed stone cold dead with a bow and arrow MR ETHICAL. Probally none. I love to bowhunt and always will

I can read just fine. I can slao shoot a little better than that
 
#56
JRWALLSIII said:
Nice language.... Ive killed more deer than the average guy. Ive shot more rounds down range than the average guy. Ive gut shot deer. I did when I was 6 and it still happens on occasion to this day. If you have ever hunted and killed animals you have gut shot and or missed deer. Anyone who says that they have not is a liar.

Oh and those gut shots were less than 700 yards.

I have seen people gut shoot deer at 50 yards.

Heck I grew up running dogs for deer. Killed a many that way. several were gut shot. Is it unethical....maybe.

How many deer have you seen killed stone cold dead with a bow and arrow MR ETHICAL. Probally none. I love to bowhunt and always will

I can read just fine. I can slao shoot a little better than that
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Didn't realize your ears were so sensitive to foul language.

You're not 6 anymore, I doubt the deer you gut shot didn't move, and we're not talking about bow hunting which is apples to fucking oranges. Anyone that gutshots a stationary deer at 50 yards with a rifle shouldn't be shooting or better be 6 years old. I love how you're trying to turn a 600 yard shot with a modern rifle on a stationary target to a comparison against bow hunting and targets under 50 yards.
 
#57
The point is that they put footage of themselves using this expensive and supposedly amazing piece of equipment really poorly in their own promo film.
 
#58
_Nick_ said:
Didn't realize your ears were so sensitive to foul language.

You're not 6 anymore, I doubt the deer you gut shot didn't move, and we're not talking about bow hunting which is apples to fucking oranges. Anyone that gutshots a stationary deer at 50 yards with a rifle shouldn't be shooting or better be 6 years old. I love how you're trying to turn a 600 yard shot with a modern rifle on a stationary target to a comparison against bow hunting and targets under 50 yards.
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I don think he was comparing shooting a rifle was anything like shooting a bow. I believe what he was saying was that not every animal is DRT every single time regardless of what the shooter has in his hands or the distance at which he's shooting.As far as the shooting system is concerned making a first round hit that dumps a zebra at 700 yrds is damned impressive. They're an exceptionally tough animal and that's a mighty long shot to make cold bore. Is the system for me, no, I'm a bow hunter for most things but I'm also not going to begrudge any one else the opportunity to do something that makes them happy if it doesn't harm me. Whether you care to use it or not is your buisness
 
#61
surfr716 said:
I don think he was comparing shooting a rifle was anything like shooting a bow. I believe what he was saying was that not every animal is DRT every single time regardless of what the shooter has in his hands or the distance at which he's shooting.As far as the shooting system is concerned making a first round hit that dumps a zebra at 700 yrds is damned impressive. They're an exceptionally tough animal and that's a mighty long shot to make cold bore. Is the system for me, no, I'm a bow hunter for most things but I'm also not going to begrudge any one else the opportunity to do something that makes them happy if it doesn't harm me. Whether you care to use it or not is your buisness
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The fact that bow hunting in general was brought into the conversation is the whole point I was making. I agree animals are tough to bring down and at a distance, but... Comparing modern rifle to bow and the shot of a grown man with a $20K+ shooting system to that of a 6 year old is apples to tuna fish. In regards to your statement about allowing someone to do something that doesn't harm you that's a cop out and how bad things happen when people choose to do nothing.
 
#63
turbo54 said:
Truck drivers hate the automated (not autoMATIC) semi truck transmissions.

Not because they don't work, but because they obsolete the skill/experience of the trucker.
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This whole line of shit about the purity of the experience sure gets old with the manual transmission crowd, because so many people are hypocrites (how many of the manual-trans crowd would hop into a car with manual choke, manual ignition advance, non-assisted steering and brakes, etc.?). I've certainly enjoyed snapping off some crisp heel-and-toe downshifts coming into the "bus stop" from the back stretch at Daytona, and yet I don't feel that makes me somehow superior to someone who drives a DCT or slushbox.

Someone can't sit there with a $5k rifle, $3.5k scope, ammo loaded with the latest gee-whiz HPBT and double-base powders, Kestrel with ATRAG, a laser rangefinder, etc. and start talking about how the Trackingpoint setup is "cheating". Either the thing works or it doesn't; any commentary beyond that is just making noise.

If someone wants a "pure" experience, go old-school and shoot long-range blackpowder matches. I'm sure it'll be even more pure if one drives there in a Model T, or better yet goes on horseback.
 
#64
E. Bryant said:
This whole line of shit about the purity of the experience sure gets old with the manual transmission crowd, because so many people are hypocrites (how many of the manual-trans crowd would hop into a car with manual choke, manual ignition advance, non-assisted steering and brakes, etc.?). I've certainly enjoyed snapping off some crisp heel-and-toe downshifts coming into the "bus stop" from the back stretch at Daytona, and yet I don't feel that makes me somehow superior to someone who drives a DCT or slushbox.

Someone can't sit there with a $5k rifle, $3.5k scope, ammo loaded with the latest gee-whiz HPBT and double-base powders, Kestrel with ATRAG, a laser rangefinder, etc. and start talking about how the Trackingpoint setup is "cheating". Either the thing works or it doesn't; any commentary beyond that is just making noise.

If someone wants a "pure" experience, go old-school and shoot long-range blackpowder matches. I'm sure it'll be even more pure if one drives there in a Model T, or better yet goes on horseback.
Click to expand...

I think it's more that it totally obsoletes the experience if it works. It makes us all black powder shooters. I'm cool with that. I even have a mechanical calculator.
 
#65
I don't agree with the gut shots on any animal and IMO, there are some questionable shots in that video. If I worked for that company I wouldn't want video of gut shots as a product promotional.

However, I think I only saw it mentioned once in this thread briefly and not mentioned again, it's like the elephant in the room. Lets face it, given the associated price tag, this system isn't targeting anyone reading these types of forums, nor is it designed for hunters/hunting, it's customer base is clearly military and it's purpose is to shoot people. The video is just another way to show potential customers the system works on live targets in the real world by minimally trained/experienced shooters and isn't the typical paper target punching on a bermed range in a controlled environment weapons demo seen at arms shows. Maybe, one day, this tech might trickle its way down to the average consumer level and we'll have a separate forum here for these types of scope systems but lets be realistic what it's current purpose and customer is.
 
#66
_Nick_ said:
The fact that bow hunting in general was brought into the conversation is the whole point I was making. I agree animals are tough to bring down and at a distance, but... Comparing modern rifle to bow and the shot of a grown man with a $20K+ shooting system to that of a 6 year old is apples to tuna fish. In regards to your statement about allowing someone to do something that doesn't harm you that's a cop out and how bad things happen when people choose to do nothing.
Click to expand...

I'm hardly copping out, my reasons to mot support it are it isn't the type of thing I would get into. My not begrudging others is based on if they feel like spending 20 grand to get a system capable of allowing them to do what they did in the video more power to them. I watched the video a couple times to see what all the fuss was about and honestly I didn't see anything worth getting all worked up over. I saw a lot of one shot kills at extended ranges and large african plains game falling the fuck over. What more can you look for from a rifle, only one animal even took a step and I believe it was a big eland, so where does the problem come in? Rifle made a bunch of marginal shooters capable of making cold bore hits, quite fatally I might add, at distances beyond the vast majority of peoples capabilities. Thats an impressive system albeit a very expensive one
 
#68
_Nick_ said:
Didn't realize your ears were so sensitive to foul language.

You're not 6 anymore, I doubt the deer you gut shot didn't move, and we're not talking about bow hunting which is apples to fucking oranges. Anyone that gutshots a stationary deer at 50 yards with a rifle shouldn't be shooting or better be 6 years old. I love how you're trying to turn a 600 yard shot with a modern rifle on a stationary target to a comparison against bow hunting and targets under 50 yards.
Click to expand...

I try to set good examples for people that may be on the hide. I dont cuss in front of my children or anyone elses children that may be on this site.

Also Im really not sure if a animal would think a gutshot with a bow is more respectable than a long range rifle shot to the guts. so comparing the two is not really diffrent. Matter of fact. I would say more people can make a properly place bow shot at 20 yards than a rifle shot at 700.

Seems to me some people think this Tracking point system has a brain. The shooter still has to "paint" the target in the right location. If a animal does not move and you "paint" the target in the guts.....well chances are the bullet is headed where you painted it.





FACT most deer are shot within 125 yards.

FACT 99.9% of all deer are killed by people older than 6 years old

Fact Anyone who has ever killed more than a handful of deer and spent anytime in a deer camp has seen gutshot deer.(they were dead deer too)

I am wrong about one thing though it seems. I thought all you WA guys were bunny loving tree huggers that thought that hamburger meat came from the grocery store and not an animal.......Now I have learned something.

This post has gotten out of hand so I am out. For you guys that can afford it and try it out. Go for it. I do know for certain that the rifles the system is mounted to are built right and drive tacks.

Off to pick up my new Gradous rifle and actually shoot some down range
 
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#69
JRWALLSIII said:
I try to set good examples for people that may be on the hide. I dont cuss in front of my children or anyone elses children that may be on this site. You're not a child and I highly doubt there's a lot of children hanging out here so...

Also Im really not sure if a animal would think a gutshot with a bow is more respectable than a long range rifle shot to the guts. so comparing the two is not really diffrent. Matter of fact. I would say more people can make a properly place bow shot at 20 yards than a rifle shot at 700. I never said a bowhunter wasn't accurate so why you felt the need to go there who knows.

Seems to me some people think this Tracking point system has a brain. The shooter still has to "paint" the target in the right location. If a animal does not move and you "paint" the target in the guts.....well chances are the bullet is headed where you painted it.





FACT most deer are shot within 125 yards. Not one said anything about average distance to targets...

FACT 99.9% of all deer are killed by people older than 6 years old. No one said anything about the average age of shooters. You're the one that talked about when you were six...

Fact Anyone who has ever killed more than a handful of deer and spent anytime in a deer camp has seen gutshot deer.(they were dead deer too) Were those gut shots on stationary deer that DIDN"T move with a modern rifle and under 125 yards?

I am wrong about one thing though it seems. I thought all you WA guys were bunny loving tree huggers that thought that hamburger meat came from the grocery store and not an animal.......Now I have learned something.

This post has gotten out of hand so I am out. For you guys that can afford it and try it out. Go for it. I do know for certain that the rifles the system is mounted to are built right and drive tacks.

Off to pick up my new Gradous rifle and actually shoot some down range
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I like how you ended it with a name drop about your rig...
 
#70
I personally think a serious and respectful hunter will learn their trade rather than buying a do-it-all-gizmo. Some of the shooters in that video had atrocious fundamentals, especially their trigger actions.

That Zebra had definitely already been shot and the Eland toward the end went down but was still clearly alive before they cut back to the idiots congratulating each other and smiling.

It gives us all a bad name.
 
#71
One thing most all have missed is that this weapon system is NOT legal to use for hunting in many states. The two most common states I hunt in do not allow any electronic scopes or other electronic devices attached to a hunting weapon to aid in shooting. They also have weight limits to the weapon.
 
#72
The concept to me is similar to a car that parellel parks itself and knows when to brake if the driver is putting on makup and texting on the phone and misses the stopped traffic ahead. It is one of the more innovative firearms related products to come out recently, but it is cost prohibitive and you have a proprietary rifle/optic that could have any # of issues and render it useless. It will be interesting to see were this technology goes.

Kirk R
 
#73
Remember the first few projected laser sights... well some of you may but for you youngins’ they were huge, expensive and not real reliable. 30+ years go by and now they fit inside a handgun guide rod and work. And you can entertain your pet with a pointer from wal-mart for about 5 bucks. This will be the same but I don’t think it will take 30 years to down size and become much more affordable.

But I am still waiting for my rifle that magnetically projects finned nails at 10,000fps ;)
 
#74
LoneWolfUSMC said:
Unlike many on here, I have actually shot this system. Here are my comments on our Blog:

TrackingPoint XactSystem upsetting anti-gunners. | 8541 Tactical
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I've shot it as well, and was lucky enough to watch the development of this scope for nearly a year and a half.. I've kept quiet, but now that I see so much confusion over it, and so much misinformation, I'm speaking out.
Here are some pics of my 2nd or 3rd time shooting this, either in the winter or spring of 2012, not sure.

557274_4126256713038_1476967478_n.jpg


182124_4138647462799_1921020591_n.jpg


557356_4138646182767_942638061_n.jpg
 
#75
E. Bryant said:
This whole line of shit about the purity of the experience sure gets old with the manual transmission crowd, because so many people are hypocrites (how many of the manual-trans crowd would hop into a car with manual choke, manual ignition advance, non-assisted steering and brakes, etc.?). I've certainly enjoyed snapping off some crisp heel-and-toe downshifts coming into the "bus stop" from the back stretch at Daytona, and yet I don't feel that makes me somehow superior to someone who drives a DCT or slushbox.

Someone can't sit there with a $5k rifle, $3.5k scope, ammo loaded with the latest gee-whiz HPBT and double-base powders, Kestrel with ATRAG, a laser rangefinder, etc. and start talking about how the Trackingpoint setup is "cheating". Either the thing works or it doesn't; any commentary beyond that is just making noise.

If someone wants a "pure" experience, go old-school and shoot long-range blackpowder matches. I'm sure it'll be even more pure if one drives there in a Model T, or better yet goes on horseback.
Click to expand...

Excellent post, being a car guy and a gun guy this resonated well with me. On a loosely related note I grew up and only owned MTs before my current DCT and now I'd never want to go back.
 
#78
ccoker said:
my take.. having shot it as well..
I think it is REALLY cool technology..

My concern is that it will cause people to try long range shots on live game they have no business doing because they haven't spent the time shooting long range enough to REALLY understand how to read the wind at distance. There is a big difference between missing a steel plate at X distance and a bad hit on game. As the distance increases so does the time for the bullet to hit the target, brain to trigger to fire, lock time, dwell time, bullet flight to target, it doesn't take much to go from a perfect shot to a bad shot. Once the bullet leaves the barrel it is no longer under the control of the system.

Scenario:
Animal at X yards, not moving, perfect shot execution by shooter and rifle.

No wind change, good hit.

Animal steps forward and bullet ends up in gut.

That is the risk for all long range hunting irregardless of platform.

The closer the game is and the faster the bullet the less risk there is.

The opposite is also true.
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Good point, but by that logic a modern pilot shouldn't drop his ordnance, using this same type of optical tracking system, as it's just too risky.. instead they should go back to the Norden bombsight and wait for better daylight conditions? :)
 
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#79
E. Bryant said:
This whole line of shit about the purity of the experience sure gets old with the manual transmission crowd, because so many people are hypocrites (how many of the manual-trans crowd would hop into a car with manual choke, manual ignition advance, non-assisted steering and brakes, etc.?). I've certainly enjoyed snapping off some crisp heel-and-toe downshifts coming into the "bus stop" from the back stretch at Daytona, and yet I don't feel that makes me somehow superior to someone who drives a DCT or slushbox.

Someone can't sit there with a $5k rifle, $3.5k scope, ammo loaded with the latest gee-whiz HPBT and double-base powders, Kestrel with ATRAG, a laser rangefinder, etc. and start talking about how the Trackingpoint setup is "cheating". Either the thing works or it doesn't; any commentary beyond that is just making noise.

If someone wants a "pure" experience, go old-school and shoot long-range blackpowder matches. I'm sure it'll be even more pure if one drives there in a Model T, or better yet goes on horseback.
Click to expand...


I couldnt agree more, in fact I used the car analogy in this other TP thread. :)
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...uipment/188300-tracking-point-thing-cool.html
 
#83
A10XRIFLE said:
LMFAO, thats awsome!!!!!
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Better watch out George as this will put you out of business. Who needs super accurate custom rifles when any Joe off the street can get this wiz bang, never miss super scope and throw it on any old factory Remington and make gut shots at 1200 yards! ;)
 
#84
You would think they would at least get some credit for using Surgeon rifles in AX chassis.. jeesh.
;p

Also, they have a low-cost line coming out, as a stock Remington rifle, rumor has it the F5 milspec 300wm.
 
#85
Personally I think its pretty damn cool. I also take it for what it is. The first of its kind. Rarely is something released 1.0 and its perfect. The engineering and craftsmanship that brought machine and man together in this is pretty awesome IMO. It has its place and that might not be for you. Can any average Joe buy this system? Hell no is 22K. That being said is 22K a rip off? Not at all. you are getting a custom rifle with all the options handloaded ammo developed for your rifle and all the research and software that went along with making this thing. I understand the conservatives are afraid to see this or any similar system succeed because it takes away the current "art" of shooting. If an average shooter can make cold bore 1,000 yard hits I'd say that piece of technology is pretty damn cool.

As for a hunting rifle, I don't think the argument should be that these "assholes" are using a flawed system for making long range hunting shots and maming animals. If that is your issue you should question the taking of game at long distance in general. Not just with this system. There's no doubt this system drastically improves 1st shot accuracy and thats all it was designed to do. For that I must give the developers credit and applaud their efforts. If the system could be proven durable in the field, I could see some military contracts down the road for SOF working in rural terrain.
 
#86
generalzip said:
Personally I think its pretty damn cool. I also take it for what it is. The first of its kind. Rarely is something released 1.0 and its perfect. The engineering and craftsmanship that brought machine and man together in this is pretty awesome IMO. It has its place and that might not be for you. Can any average Joe buy this system? Hell no is 22K. That being said is 22K a rip off? Not at all. you are getting a custom rifle with all the options handloaded ammo developed for your rifle and all the research and software that went along with making this thing. I understand the conservatives are afraid to see this or any similar system succeed because it takes away the current "art" of shooting. If an average shooter can make cold bore 1,000 yard hits I'd say that piece of technology is pretty damn cool.

As for a hunting rifle, I don't think the argument should be that these "assholes" are using a flawed system for making long range hunting shots and maming animals. If that is your issue you should question the taking of game at long distance in general. Not just with this system. There's no doubt this system drastically improves 1st shot accuracy and thats all it was designed to do. For that I must give the developers credit and applaud their efforts. If the system could be proven durable in the field, I could see some military contracts down the road for SOF working in rural terrain.
Click to expand...

+1 I think Ayn Rand siad it best - "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it."
 
#89
Envisioning TrackingPoint Setup of the Future:

1) Install scope. It self levels so no need for anything fancy.
2) Boresight.
3) Fire three bullets and use arrows to move reticle to point of impact to set zero.
4) Attach magnetospeed chrono to muzzle.
5) Fire three more bullets and velocity data is downloaded instantly into the scope.
6) Pick bullet BC and rifle type from drop down list.
7) Shoot stuff.

Or instead of magnetospeed, they could have a velocity gauge built in that averages velocity each time the weapon is fired. Maybe use the range finder as a kind of highspeed LIDAR when the trigger is pulled or other method? That way it could constantly average load performance so if the shooter is moving between lot numbers they don't have to re-verify anything.

I also suspect some method for automatically adjusting for wind would be forthcoming if they can miniaturize it enough.
 
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