Training before hitting 1st match?

[thelaststraw]

I'm not sure if training would be more sensible than going to a local match or two first? Currently I have a gas gun since I didn't want to go full send on a platform that may or may not work for me. Would training benefit me before hitting a local match? I'm sure most fundamentals will carry over but will the differences confuse when I transition?

 

[sachsmart]

Try to build stable position on some rickety objects like a chair etc. You will have the PRS barricade stage, so try to make a prop that gives you similar height and practice getting stable. Don't worry about speed go and enjoy.

 

[salks]

Pay close attention to saftey. Be sure to let people know its your first match, they will help you. Look at peoples body positons when on a prop.there is alot of technique involved in getting a steady shot. You can practice that on just about anything.

 

[thelaststraw]

I've been practicing building positions on various items at my local range, like old concrete piers and posts. It's really lax down here. I got away from the bench once I realized it wasn't much help for the direction I want to go.

So I should hit a match or two before I try to get any formal training? I'm familiar with being a new guy, I started USPSA about 5yrs ago and love it. I'm wanting to take the smartest route of progression.

 

[6.5SH]

A short ladder and a couple of quick clamps is pretty versatile.

Video is about the DFAT but second half talks about using the ladder:

 

[OREGUN]

I've been practicing building positions on various items at my local range, like old concrete piers and posts. It's really lax down here. I got away from the bench once I realized it wasn't much help for the direction I want to go.

So I should hit a match or two before I try to get any formal training? I'm familiar with being a new guy, I started USPSA about 5yrs ago and love it. I'm wanting to take the smartest route of progression.

Go to a match or two…or all the matches you can afford/get to/have time for. Local “casual” matches. Dry fire from improvised positions like the ladder seen above so you have some idea what you are going to need to do. Get formal training as available. Initially, focus on SAFETY, go slow, get hits and expect that you will time out before engaging all the targets. Just like USPSA, you can’t miss fast enough to win.

 

[thelaststraw]

10-4
I appreciate the help. I want to get some exposure to the format. Ive been doing similar stuff but the ladder has been on my short list.

 

[sachsmart]

I've been practicing building positions on various items at my local range, like old concrete piers and posts. It's really lax down here. I got away from the bench once I realized it wasn't much help for the direction I want to go.

So I should hit a match or two before I try to get any formal training? I'm familiar with being a new guy, I started USPSA about 5yrs ago and love it. I'm wanting to take the smartest route of progression.

If you are going to spend on formal training, which I do recommend, you might need a proper bolt action. Shoot a couple of matches and see what you want to buy in caliber, chassis, action etc and then go for training with the new rig. I would highly recommend K&M in Finger TN

 

[thelaststraw]

Excellent, thank you. If I knew better I would have gone that route with a bolt gun right away. I had some stuff laying around and built this as a starter. You answered what I was trying to ask perfectly. I figured it would be a little counterproductive to get training on a semi if I'm going to move to bolt....but I don't know much in this area currently.

I'll run what I have for a little while until I get a better idea of what I need. Then I'll get some training. I didn't know the proper/logical progression in this case.

 

[6.5SH]

Depending on your area there may be PRS format gas gun only matches as well.

 

[thelaststraw]

Not sure, I'm in SW Louisiana, right on the border with Houston and baton rouge both about 2 hrs away. There are a few clubs that have matches monthly but nothing very local other than pistol(USPSA/IDPA) that is regularly held. I'm going to venture out Houston way probably in the next month or so to one or a couple. Gas gun or not, I'll get some exposure to everything. I don't plan to stay with a semi, but who knows right now.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

Go shoot matches. Coached training is great if you can find it, but be aware that anyone can hang out a shingle and call themselves an instructor. I've done one 1-day group training class and one 1-day 1x1 session. I already pretty much knew what was presented in the group class (very basic rifle fundamentals; not so much about match training per se). What I wanted out of the 1x1 session was an evaluation of what I already knew and discussion of/exposure to/practice from as many props as the instructor could describe and/or provide.

What I learned from the 1x1 session and, mostly, from experience:

• I knew my rifle/ammo dope well and could hit 2MOA targets out to 550 yards (max range available to us), and I knew how to use my ballistic calculator. According to the instructor, this gave me an advantage over a quarter to a third of typical entrants at a typical match.
  (I learned through experience that combined effects of light, wind, etc. are much more pronounced at 750+ yards than at 500- yards.)
• Nothing beats practicing (live fire and dry fire) from as many sorts of props as one can imagine.
  • Barricades (wide, narrow, solid, rope, high, low, etc), stairs (shooting through them from underneath - ugh; more typically laying atop them),
  • Picnic tables (will your bipod hang over the edge of the seating boards when you have to shoot from the lengthwise orientation?),
  • Concrete pipes (if you shoot from one laid parallel to line of fire, is one end high or low... you better know because if your bipod is set too high you'll suffer for it),
  • Barrels (in any orientation/angle you can imagine, and some of the plastic ones are Very slick - be prepared),
  • "Boats" (usually plywood platform suspended from chains so the thing rocks with any motion... but I've seen real boats used that way too...),
  • Tires (big ones, small ones, single ones, piles of them, up high, flat on ground, stood up... you name it)
  • Rocks (see tires above)
  • Cars, buses, etc (shoot from atop them, through the window openings, from inside them, you name it)
• Learn, insomuch as you can, how to eyeball props and be able to set your support (bipod, bags, etc.) accordingly
• Be ready, with rifle, mag, and bag in hand, when it's your turn to shoot. Good ROs will call out who's up, on deck, and in the hole after every shooter. Be ready. It shows you're paying attention, and it's appreciated by everyone.
• Scope magnification set 12-15x, parallax adjusted before each stage
• Reset your scope to zero after every stage, especially long-range ones where you may have more than a full revolution on the turret. You.Will.Forget. and at some point You.Will. fling one 10 mils high.
• Take notes after each stage. In practice, have a goal for every session, every round fired. I had a newbie ask me for pointers one afternoons... the kid couldn't fire one round and evaluate; he had to fire the whole magazine and if he missed a huge target (which he did repeatedly) he just kept shooting. Epitome of spray&pray. Barrel on his new RPR was literally smoking.
• I try to keep my rifle and (especially) ammo out of direct sun. Heat that stuff up for half an hour in your Louisiana August sun and see what it does to your POA/POI...

I'm sure there's more. Go shoot matches. Have fun. Tell your squad and ROs you're new and you'll get plenty of help. Be safe & enjoy.

EDIT: Major thing to practice: transitioning from one prop to another. Example would be a set of barrels - 1 standing upright, one on its side parallel to line of fire, one perpendicular to line of fire. On timer beep, go to first barrel, shoot twice, move to second barrel, 2 shots, 3rd barrle for two, back to second for two, finish on upright barrel for two in 90 seconds. It's much more important to score hits than get all the shots off!

 

[KnowNothing256]

^^^ This is good advice. I'll also chime in that if you have no good access to props, a cheap A-frame ladder is the best single prop you can invest in. You can make it wobbly by sticking a rock/board under one foot, you can turn it sideways, all the different ways to mess with it, but ultimately it'll get you into all of the different heights that you'll need to learn. You don't even have to pull the trigger at first, just wiggle around until you can keep your wobble inside a 2 MOA target, then 1 MOA as you progress. Once you've found that position, practice getting into and out of it. Then practice a different position, then come back to the prior one to see if you can remember how it's built. All of that can be done with an empty mag and chamber.

You can go to a match and just ask for advice, but I'd recommend practicing position-building and safety beforehand. Safety is an easy one to get wrong when your heart rate kicks up and the start buzzer sounds, and nobody wants to be DQ'd for a safety violation. Or get shot.

 

[thelaststraw]

I've been getting mixed trigger time lately, mainly away from the bench now in mixed positions. Trying to find my barrels load while practicing with the best I've found so far.
I definitely know of the sun being that all I have currently is Leverevolution...and it gets squirrely quick if sitting in the sun or a hot chamber.
Safety wise, I'm practice drilling the safety on and call for movements which is required for gas guns in PRS I believe. I'll probably start bringing a step ladder sooner than later. I have a variety of stuff at my range that works to find my wobble zone. I have reliable dope to 600 currently.....just trying to tighten things up and more reliable first round hits.
I was planning on hitting one of Lowlights classes but I'm gonna hold until I get whatever my purpose built platform is. I may be on par with where I should be but I don't want to be way behind that point and a hassle for my squad or instructor.

 

[Midpack]

I've been getting mixed trigger time lately, mainly away from the bench now in mixed positions. Trying to find my barrels load while practicing with the best I've found so far.
I definitely know of the sun being that all I have currently is Leverevolution...and it gets squirrely quick if sitting in the sun or a hot chamber.
Safety wise, I'm practice drilling the safety on and call for movements which is required for gas guns in PRS I believe. I'll probably start bringing a step ladder sooner than later. I have a variety of stuff at my range that works to find my wobble zone. I have reliable dope to 600 currently.....just trying to tighten things up and more reliable first round hits.
I was planning on hitting one of Lowlights classes but I'm gonna hold until I get whatever my purpose built platform is. I may be on par with where I should be but I don't want to be way behind that point and a hassle for my squad or instructor.

don't let a gas gun hold you back from @lowlight class. The fundamentals translate over and his class is geared to build you from the ground up..it's easier to train a guy up fresh then try to break through the old training scars. I've been through 2 of Frank & Marc's classes and both times there were multiple gas guns and it didn't hold them or the class back

 

[thelaststraw]

don't let a gas gun hold you back from @lowlight class. The fundamentals translate over and his class is geared to build you from the ground up..it's easier to train a guy up fresh then try to break through the old training scars. I've been through 2 of Frank & Marc's classes and both times there were multiple gas guns and it didn't hold them or the class back

I figured most would transfer over from gas to bolt. From what I've heard a gas gun is harder to drive in general. The point of getting training early is what brought my initial question on. I don't want to ingrain any bad habits.

I may try to get to a match or two but try harder to get to a pr1 or pr1/2 class soon. I think the November class may be full by now. So far the CR2 and Rifles Only classes seem most convenient for me location and timewise. I've been keeping an eye for anything on this forum in the gulf coast area. If they are in here I imagine they are reputable. I just didn't want to set myself back in any way with training on two different platforms, if it's even the case which I don't know.

 

[Midpack]

I figured most would transfer over from gas to bolt. From what I've heard a gas gun is harder to drive in general. The point of getting training early is what brought my initial question on. I don't want to ingrain any bad habits.

I may try to get to a match or two but try harder to get to a pr1 or pr1/2 class soon. I think the November class may be full by now. So far the CR2 and Rifles Only classes seem most convenient for me location and timewise. I've been keeping an eye for anything on this forum in the gulf coast area. If they are in here I imagine they are reputable. I just didn't want to set myself back in any way with training on two different platforms, if it's even the case which I don't know.

The cr2 class would be money for your if your can find a way to make it happen. The Chris's are gas gun guys if I'm not mistaken. And rifles only you can't go wrong with in general

 

[thelaststraw]

The cr2 class would be money for your if your can find a way to make it happen. The Chris's are gas gun guys if I'm not mistaken. And rifles only you can't go wrong with in general

Good deal...I have no idea what I should be looking for in a place for training. I know my goals and end use, but who's reputable, who's not, has relevant training for me, etc,etc. Those two appear to me as good options besides one of Lowlights classes, which sell out instantly it seems. That and within a day's drive of SW Louisiana.

 

[Lowlight]

The only thing we ask is the guns are in good working order

I have a lot of experience with Gassers, as most of the RIfles Only classes with the Military and even .Gov were Gassers,

So we embrace them, just make sure it will run correctly without fighting it

Some times we see Lego Rifles that don't work as advertised in terms of feed and function

 

[thelaststraw]

Understandable, I've been running smooth for 300+handloads and 140 eldm factory. The rifle in question would be replaced fast if it wasn't. It's actually scary smooth with or without the can and no gas block adjustments. If I knew better, or didn't have parts laying around, I should have bought a decent factory starter bolt gun. I blame the extra receivers I had since I always buy them in pairs for reasons.

 

[Kaveman44]

This thing was a game changer for me! Dry fire practice that is as realistic as it gets

 

[thelaststraw]

I have to rebuild my shop (still rebuilding from hurricane Laura) and it has room for that. I was going to pair it with the cap for the objective lens, supposedly works good. Also was looking at the Blackbeard? That mantis makes for semi auto that resets the trigger. It's not cheap but not sure how long I'll be using a gas gun yet.

I definitely know the benefits of dryfire from shooting a CZ in USPSA. The more you put in, the more you get out of it.

 

[thelaststraw]

I was going to start a new thread but this is relevant to the original post. Can anyone suggest any particular club matches for a new guy in the general areas of Houston or new orleans? Or would pretty much any of the club level matches be receptive to new shooters? At least one in Texas appeared to be more difficult courses of fire, or geared more to experienced shooter( that's the vibe I got and may be wrong).

I'm going to a CR2 class in November but would like to get an idea of what my end goals are more specifically with the trial by fire.

 

[CK1.0]

Coming from USPSA, you already know it's more about the "Indian" than the "arrow"... just knowing that, plus having youtube, can be enough to set you down the right path (and dry fire and building/breaking positions uses zero ammo and costs nothing).

Normally I'd say go get training right away, but drinking from a firehose isn't always the best way to learn, if you're an experienced shooter in another discipline, there's probably a lot of stuff you can learn on your own that will allow you to get much more out of some real training when the time comes down the road a little... just be reasonable about it, and don't wait to seek training until after you've developed some bad habits.

FWIW, to a certain degree equipment does matter more in this game more so than in USPSA: doesn't mean rich guy beats poor guy every time or only dudes with the most expensive rifles do well and you're screwed unless your scope costs more than your whole USPSA rig. It's more subtle and nuanced than that, things like: if you're shooting a gun that weighs 15lbs with 2.5lb trigger off sketchy barricades and can't spot your impacts/splash, competing against guys running 20lb+ rifles with 8oz triggers who can watch their trace the whole way in, yeah, that ain't going to go well... It's not really an arms race, you just don't want to go into a knife fight with a butter knife when the other guy is bringing a machete (like I said, subtle nuances hahaha)...

So, welcome, it's fun, and there's a bunch of new stuff to figure out. It is different though: can't just show up on-time to a match with a decent pistol, mags, and ammo, and run around like a madman and finish near the top like in USPSA... with rifles: there's like 10 things you can screw up before you've even gotten in the truck to head to the range hahaha...

 

[thelaststraw]

I'm finding out first hand how hard things are both at the bench and at the range. I thought I had my handloads fairly consistent, but I'm getting high 20s and low 30 ES with SD in the teens.

I also started doing some structured practice by working in a position such as a barrel or different low-standing, kneeling, etc....let's just say I don't know what my stable positions are yet. I haven't been able to find them by accident yet. I'm going to spend time from 1-200 doing a position or two on paper. Build and break drills that I'll use the dry fire to help find the stable positions. I never realized how unstable some positions are until I tried getting into them.

Thank you for the tips and help. Everyone has been very helpful anytime I've asked for any help.

 

[JimmyH]

I was going to start a new thread but this is relevant to the original post. Can anyone suggest any particular club matches for a new guy in the general areas of Houston or new orleans? Or would pretty much any of the club level matches be receptive to new shooters? At least one in Texas appeared to be more difficult courses of fire, or geared more to experienced shooter( that's the vibe I got and may be wrong).

I'm going to a CR2 class in November but would like to get an idea of what my end goals are more specifically with the trial by fire.

Hey bud! I live just south of Baton Rouge and have family in Sulpher,La. Sounds like we’re kinda in the same boat with getting started, getting some good instruction, and wishing there was a closer PRS match! Lol! I signed up for the Guardian match in Pearsall, Tx Dec 4&5 so that’ll be a first time at that range for me.

Louisiana only has one current match venue that I’ve shot/heard of and it’s in the NE corner of the state in Rayville (PractiScore club name is LPRC). I’ve heard there have been other PRS matches in our state but not currently being held.

I just finished up taking Modern Day Sniper’s 4 day Intro to Competition class and man was it a great class! Hope you class is great too! I’ve shot two PRS matches and then took this course. I’m looking at hitting up the Texas matches going forward.

Hit me up with anymore questions you may have,
Jim

 

[Simonsza1]

Also you can sign up for the modern day sniper online training. Think it would be worth the money and as close as you can get to personal without being there, those guys are great. There you’ll be able to ask, watch and confirm some basic data on towards advanced. Not saying you won’t get lots of good advice poking around on the hide cause you will but you’ll also get yourself twisted around in knots. There you’ll get solid info. Definitely just go to a match and shoot you’ll learn plenty there, the community typically is very nice and helpful. You’ll be doing yourself a disservice if you don’t tell everyone your new cause they may not be willing to share all there secrets with you unless you do lol. Also remember unlike uspsa where your time matters it’s usually 90 seconds a stage to shoot it no perks to being faster. Use a timer at home set for 90 and implement it into your drills to kinda get use to how fast it flies by. If for some crazy reason you want a bolt gun Sooner then later the Black Friday sale at American rifle company on a complete rifle is the best rifle for that price you’ll probably ever get. Good luck and seriously consider the mds online training I think you’ll get your money’s worth from there real knowledge.

 

[thelaststraw]

Hey bud! I live just south of Baton Rouge and have family in Sulpher,La. Sounds like we’re kinda in the same boat with getting started, getting some good instruction, and wishing there was a closer PRS match! Lol! I signed up for the Guardian match in Pearsall, Tx Dec 4&5 so that’ll be a first time at that range for me.

Louisiana only has one current match venue that I’ve shot/heard of and it’s in the NE corner of the state in Rayville (PractiScore club name is LPRC). I’ve heard there have been other PRS matches in our state but not currently being held.

I just finished up taking Modern Day Sniper’s 4 day Intro to Competition class and man was it a great class! Hope you class is great too! I’ve shot two PRS matches and then took this course. I’m looking at hitting up the Texas matches going forward.

Hit me up with anymore questions you may have,
Jim

I'm actually going to the Guardian also. I'm sticking with the gas gun for a while, I was told I drove it pretty good and getting better with it will only make a transition to bolt easier. I'm in squad 4 but I think it's a free for all format for the most part. I'll see you there.

 

[thelaststraw]

Also you can sign up for the modern day sniper online training. Think it would be worth the money and as close as you can get to personal without being there, those guys are great. There you’ll be able to ask, watch and confirm some basic data on towards advanced. Not saying you won’t get lots of good advice poking around on the hide cause you will but you’ll also get yourself twisted around in knots. There you’ll get solid info. Definitely just go to a match and shoot you’ll learn plenty there, the community typically is very nice and helpful. You’ll be doing yourself a disservice if you don’t tell everyone your new cause they may not be willing to share all there secrets with you unless you do lol. Also remember unlike uspsa where your time matters it’s usually 90 seconds a stage to shoot it no perks to being faster. Use a timer at home set for 90 and implement it into your drills to kinda get use to how fast it flies by. If for some crazy reason you want a bolt gun Sooner then later the Black Friday sale at American rifle company on a complete rifle is the best rifle for that price you’ll probably ever get. Good luck and seriously consider the mds online training I think you’ll get your money’s worth from there real knowledge.

Thank you, I am on the MDS network also. I've found that it's not a matter of someone 'here' being right and someone 'there' wrong as much as things being explained in different ways. I use a lot of resources and have been getting a pretty good grasp on things I think by not limiting myself to one place. The CR2 class I went to recently was originally chosen because of timing/work. If an MDS class were on those dates that is where I would have been.
I'm going to run what I got and practice with what I have for a while. I just got a tripod setup recently....I had to have one after using one. Positional practice sucks on wobbly stacked benches. It's not so miserable that I dread doing it now. I'll know when I need new stuff when the time comes I'm realizing.

 

[308pirate]

So I should hit a match or two before I try to get any formal training? I'm familiar with being a new guy, I started USPSA about 5yrs ago and love it. I'm wanting to take the smartest route of progression.

I would think you know the answer if you recall how you started in USPSA. I'm sure you remember what you first few matches were like: didn't matter what you did to "train" you still got wrecked because you really didn't know what you didn't know.

At least that's how my start in USPSA went. Once I went to a few matches, I got a real good idea of what I needed to fix and got the resources (Ben Stoeger's books) to start fixing them.

Go shoot.