Transferable FA Dealers

[nhdeadhead]

Can anyone share any legit online dealers for full auto transferable MG’s? It’s amazing how many fake/counterfeit websites you encounter after looking on google.

I saw a video of an Ak-22lr that peaked my interest as from what I can tell they are on the lower end of the price spectrum and obviously more affordable to shoot. I figure they aren’t making any more and may be considered a good financial investment? I’m not stuck on a 22lr but also don’t have $30-80k to spend on a F/A so am curious to what others with experience would recommend for an entry purchase that is both semi-affordable and reliable. I’m just window shopping currently but if I came across something in the 10-20k price range that fit the bill I figure it may be better than putting any more money into the stock market.

Thoughts/Opinions/Advice?

 

[Bacarrat]

You can always cross check said shop with the ATF database of FFLs if it's a legit dealer selling whatever NFA item you are wanting.

 

[BurtG]

I’d get a mac if I were you

 

[roostercogburn98]

Ruben Mendiola with DealerNFA has been around for a long time

 

[scott5456]

Ruben Mendiola with DealerNFA has been around for a long time

I'm shocked anyone would recommend this after what he's done to Full auto sales.....

 

[BurtG]

I'm shocked anyone would recommend this after what he's done to Full auto sales.....

Please expound

 

[powdahound76]

My M11 transferrable just got approved after 11 months (it was a paper file) I’d be willing to let it go for the right price… pm me.

You selling outside the PX?

Nice.

 

[msgriff]

Sturmgewehr forum is my goto NFA gun board. Most of the big name players/dealers are members.

 

[scott5456]

Please expound

On many of the NFA boards through the years I've noticed a trend. When he started to get involved and attempt to corner the NFA FA market, he was purchasing guns by throwing money at people quickly. After buying up all the inventory (Not difficult if you had a few million laying around), he then placed those guns for sale at a significant mark up. I've heard rumors that those guns at a higher premium get marked as *SOLD* but then a few months later you will see them for sale again at yet an even more inflated price (Because someone dropped out or some other excuse). Over time this raises the prices as the inventory is low, and the guns that have "SOLD" appear to be moving quickly even at obscene prices. So you have a gun that was purchased for $14k-$16k now being sold for $25k-$30k. I believe you do get some actual buyers mixed in to make things look legit.

While I admit this was a smart business move, it has affected the NFA FA market significantly in a negative way while greatly enhancing his net worth at the expense of others. Some view it as just doing business, I view it as stealing from the community and taking advantage of others. So if you are involved and have purchased NFA FA in the last few years, just know likely some of your money went into his pocket for no reason.

In my industry these types of games are EXTREMELY common with used equipment.

 

[roostercogburn98]

On many of the NFA boards through the years I've noticed a trend. When he started to get involved and attempt to corner the NFA FA market, he was purchasing guns by throwing money at people quickly. After buying up all the inventory (Not difficult if you had a few million laying around), he then placed those guns for sale at a significant mark up. I've heard rumors that those guns at a higher premium get marked as *SOLD* but then a few months later you will see them for sale again at yet an even more inflated price (Because someone dropped out or some other excuse). Over time this raises the prices as the inventory is low, and the guns that have "SOLD" appear to be moving quickly even at obscene prices. So you have a gun that was purchased for $14k-$16k now being sold for $25k-$30k. I believe you do get some actual buyers mixed in to make things look legit.

While I admit this was a smart business move, it has affected the NFA FA market significantly in a negative way while greatly enhancing his net worth at the expense of others. Some view it as just doing business, I view it as stealing from the community and taking advantage of others. So if you are involved and have purchased NFA FA in the last few years, just know likely some of your money went into his pocket for no reason.

In my industry these types of games are EXTREMELY common with used equipment.

So you just be mad at all the local gun shops for jacking up reloading component prices too

 

[scott5456]

So you just be mad at all the local gun shops for jacking up reloading component prices too

Yes sir. I let them know when I feel their prices are crazy (+50% Markup). Not that it will change anything but it's an honesty thing for me. I also feel the same way when selling and they beat someone down on price and then turn around to flip it for profit. They bring no value to the table and only make the transaction worse for everyone. I don't like middlemen in a transaction.

That is also an industry wide shortage, this is one guy in Florida funneling your money into his already oversized retirement account. I spoke to him on a number of occasions and the feedback I got was, you don't like it? Go screw off. If you want to send him even more money (When he has obviously done very well prior to ever getting into NFA items), then feel free to send him money. I've worked hard for what I have and don't like sending it to someone who doesn't add value or hasn't earned it. To me it's very unethical, but you do you.

 

[nhdeadhead]

Sturmgewehr forum is my goto NFA gun board. Most of the big name players/dealers are members.

Thank you, that forum will keep me busy!

Appreciate all the replies and intel.

My lgs tend to always have a mac or two in the show case but they never really appealed to me. I may have to take a closer look next time.

 

[Scwalker83]

I have a FA MAC11 and it's a POS. Can't hit a damn thing with it and even in 380 and the wire stock and barrel shroud hand guard really hard to control. https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog...11-15-223-5-56-upper-receiver-for-m-11-9-smg/ Maybe that makes it better but it still doesn't change the fact that it's POS trigger to boot. Full auto unless it is in a light machine gun for support, or you're in a phone booth don't make a lot of sense.

As a tangible asset that you can play with from time to time and maybe make a few bucks if you hold onto it for awhile, it's probably decent.

Yes sir. I let them know when I feel their prices are crazy (+50% Markup). Not that it will change anything but it's an honesty thing for me. I also feel the same way when selling and they beat someone down on price and then turn around to flip it for profit. They bring no value to the table and only make the transaction worse for everyone. I don't like middlemen in a transaction.

That is also an industry wide shortage, this is one guy in Florida funneling your money into his already oversized retirement account. I spoke to him on a number of occasions and the feedback I got was, you don't like it? Go screw off. If you want to send him even more money (When he has obviously done very well prior to ever getting into NFA items), then feel free to send him money. I've worked hard for what I have and don't like sending it to someone who doesn't add value or hasn't earned it. To me it's very unethical, but you do you.

Do you sell your stuff out of your 401K at what you paid for it or at market value?

 

[BurtG]

Thank you, that forum will keep me busy!

Appreciate all the replies and intel.

My lgs tend to always have a mac or two in the show case but they never really appealed to me. I may have to take a closer look next time.

You can get a variety of lage uppers now. Think there’s even a belt fed

 

[scott5456]

I have a FA MAC11 and it's a POS. Can't hit a damn thing with it and even in 380 and the wire stock and barrel shroud hand guard really hard to control. https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog...11-15-223-5-56-upper-receiver-for-m-11-9-smg/ Maybe that makes it better but it still doesn't change the fact that it's POS trigger to boot. Full auto unless it is in a light machine gun for support, or you're in a phone booth don't make a lot of sense.

As a tangible asset that you can play with from time to time and maybe make a few bucks if you hold onto it for awhile, it's probably decent.



Do you sell your stuff out of your 401K at what you paid for it or at market value?

I'm not sure if you are joking or not. This isn't that complicated. Christ what is with you guys?

You as a person, buying a gun to shoot and then sell at a later date to make some cash, I have ZERO issues with that. You are what make the sport great. This guy doesn't add any value to the transaction other than taking money from your pocket and putting it into his.

This Guy used his substantial assets to corner part of the market to steal from you and anyone else looking at buying NFA FA. In addition he released fraudulent info to rip you off even further to manipulate pricing. Get it now? If you read the forums you will see others commenting about this very issue.

Would you be OK if your 401K held a companies stock, you bought into it based on the info they gave out, earnings come and the price tanks due to them lying about earnings, you lose a ton of money. CEO takes a huge bonus just prior to releasing the info. Do you feel good about that? Or does it look like he took money from your pocket and put it in his?

 

[Scwalker83]

I'm not sure if you are joking or not. This isn't that complicated. Christ what is with you guys?

You as a person, buying a gun to shoot and then sell at a later date to make some cash, I have ZERO issues with that. You are what make the sport great. This guy doesn't add any value to the transaction other than taking money from your pocket and putting it into his.

This Guy used his substantial assets to corner part of the market to steal from you and anyone else looking at buying NFA FA. In addition he released fraudulent info to rip you off even further to manipulate pricing. Get it now? If you read the forums you will see others commenting about this very issue.

Would you be OK if your 401K held a companies stock, you bought into it based on the info they gave out, earnings come and the price tanks due to them lying about earnings, you lose a ton of money. CEO takes a huge bonus just prior to releasing the info. Do you feel good about that? Or does it look like he took money from your pocket and put it in his?

If they cost more than you want to spend, don't buy them. If you owned one before, you probably made a bit of money. Sounds sort of like the stock market to me. Market will determine the price. There are other resources to check FA prices, like gunbroker etc. CEO bonuses are pre-negotiated usually.

I'm not implying there isn't some wrong doing on behalf of the above NFA dealer as an individual. There nothing wrong with your LGS marking stuff up 50% percent, it's not dishonest either. Dishonesty requires deception. I didn't like paying $1000 per 8lbs of H1000 a year two ago. But it was what it cost to play the game I wanted to play.

Regarding gouging in general, if there is such a thing as gouging, it probably alleviates shortages far more rapidly than the alternative, price controls. People need incentives to take risks, whether it's bringing resources to a disaster zone, or adding shifts, new equipment and buildings etc. Usually that incentive is in the form of a possibility of monetary rewards.

 

[scott5456]

If they cost more than you want to spend, don't buy them. If you owned one before, you probably made a bit of money. Sounds sort of like the stock market to me. Market will determine the price. There are other resources to check FA prices, like gunbroker etc. CEO bonuses are pre-negotiated usually.

I'm not implying there isn't some wrong doing on behalf of the above NFA dealer as an individual. There nothing wrong with your LGS marking stuff up 50% percent, it's not dishonest either. Dishonesty requires deception. I didn't like paying $1000 per 8lbs of H1000 a year two ago. But it was what it cost to play the game I wanted to play.

Regarding gouging in general, if there is such a thing as gouging, it probably alleviates shortages far more rapidly than the alternative, price controls. People need incentives to take risks, whether it's bringing resources to a disaster zone, or adding shifts, new equipment and buildings etc. Usually that incentive is in the form of a possibility of monetary rewards.

You think a CEO isn't going to play games with write downs or releasing info to maximize their bonus? Have you heard about FTX recently? Dude lied through his teeth the week before being bankrupt. He 100% knew he was screwing his customers, did it anyway.

You are correct. When I discuss pricing with the LGS I let them know where the market is at, what I will buy at (I do tend to pay higher than market at LGS for convenience), and if I think it's way out of line. It's not some crazy confrontation, the LGS knows I shop a lot and asks me what I'm getting my stuff for as well. Typically before I leave I will ask if he wants to sell it or wait for someone else to pay the higher price.

What I told you twice now was there is intentional deception to move the market price. The wording comes awfully close to fraud, at the very least unethical. This is reasonably common knowledge from what I've seen. In my industry, it is VERY common in the used equipment world.

If you are good with it like you seem to be, send him some more money, he needs gas for his Yacht. Maybe let him take some liberties with your SO while you are feeling generous.

 

[Scwalker83]

You think a CEO isn't going to play games with write downs or releasing info to maximize their bonus? Have you heard about FTX recently? Dude lied through his teeth the week before being bankrupt. He 100% knew he was screwing his customers, did it anyway.

You are correct. When I discuss pricing with the LGS I let them know where the market is at, what I will buy at (I do tend to pay higher than market at LGS for convenience), and if I think it's way out of line. It's not some crazy confrontation, the LGS knows I shop a lot and asks me what I'm getting my stuff for as well. Typically before I leave I will ask if he wants to sell it or wait for someone else to pay the higher price.

What I told you twice now was there is intentional deception to move the market price. The wording comes awfully close to fraud, at the very least unethical. This is reasonably common knowledge from what I've seen. In my industry, it is VERY common in the used equipment world.

If you are good with it like you seem to be, send him some more money, he needs gas for his Yacht. Maybe let him take some liberties with your SO while you are feeling generous.

I still think there are plenty of honest people, CEOs included. My experience on this website has cemented that opinion that there are more honest people than dishonest. SBF paid for his dishonesty getting arrested today. At least as it relates to the NFA dealer, I checked out his website, looks like has about half a million in NFA inventory. I have no idea how many NFA guns are out there but that doesn't seem like enough market share to significantly alter NFA prices. I think general inflation is far more to blame for inflating things like that.

Intentional deception vs trying to get the most out of your rare product are probably a matter of opinion as it relates to NFA items and their status as an investment grade toy.

Purposely misleading people is wrong and I condemn that. I would categorize that as taking an objective thing, like a balance sheet, and altering it. It's my opinion that people who were/are involved in crypto are playing with fire and anyone with any sense should recognize that it is a risky endeavor.

I've never bought anything from Mr. Mendiola. I don't think my wife has had intimate relations with him either.

I don't think that flipping a half million inventory several times a year pays for a very nice yacht.

 

[scott5456]

I still think there are plenty of honest people, CEOs included. My experience on this website has cemented that opinion that there are more honest people than dishonest. SBF paid for his dishonesty getting arrested today. At least as it relates to the NFA dealer, I checked out his website, looks like has about half a million in NFA inventory. I have no idea how many NFA guns are out there but that doesn't seem like enough market share to significantly alter NFA prices. I think general inflation is far more to blame for inflating things like that.

Intentional deception vs trying to get the most out of your rare product are probably a matter of opinion as it relates to NFA items and their status as an investment grade toy.

Purposely misleading people is wrong and I condemn that. I would categorize that as taking an objective thing, like a balance sheet, and altering it. It's my opinion that people who have/were/are involved in crypto are playing with fire and anyone with any sense should recognize that it is a risky endeavor.

I've never bought anything from Mr. Mendiola. I don't think my wife has had intimate relations with him either.

I don't think that flipping a half million inventory several times a year pays for a very nice yacht.

It's hard for me to believe, but in August it looks like he turned $250k+ in sales. I have no way to know how much of that is actually real or was "sold". But if he's turning $250k in a month, most of what I've seen is him adding 40%-50% to the price, $125k/Month is pretty good for not really doing anything but sending checks and doing paperwork. For a period of a few years literally every gun I tried to buy, if I thought about it for a day and tried to do due diligence on the seller, he already sent a check. That's when I originally started watching as I thought it was crazy how many guns I got beat out of only to see them pop up a month later for 50% more. I think there are 100 FA guns up for grabs at any time, he has 26 and if you believe the posts, he turned over that many in 2 months, so about half of what's out there, so yes, I think that's enough to move things.

 

[FuhQ]

I’d get a mac if I were you

They’re spray & prays, but about the cheapest way to get into the F/A game. Same with Uzis.

Personally, the best investment IMO, is an M16 (currently $20-30K), because you can swap any upper you want onto it, therefore, it becomes universal with multiple calibers and cartridges, but only requires the 1 stamp.

 

[BurtG]

They’re spray & prays, but about the cheapest way to get into the F/A game. Same with Uzis.

Personally, the best investment IMO, is an M16 (currently $20-30K), because you can swap any upper you want onto it, therefore, it becomes universal with multiple calibers and cartridges, but only requires the 1 stamp.

I’d agree but he said 10-20k max.

I have a 16, M2HB and waiting on a Mac.

Precision rifles are more fun for me but mgs are a good place to store money , are crowd pleasers and do bring a smile the few times I use them.

 

[FuhQ]

I’d agree but he said 10-20k max.

I have a 16, M2HB and waiting on a Mac.

Precision rifles are more fun for me but mgs are a good place to store money , are crowd pleasers and do bring a smile the few times I use them.

I think my next major Firearms investment will be either a pre-86 M16 or RDIAS.

 

[E. Bryant]

Hot take - for those not looking for investment opportunities, a 07/02 FFL/SOT is cheaper and faster if one has legitimate business interests in such a license.

 

[Scwalker83]

It's hard for me to believe, but in August it looks like he turned $250k+ in sales. I have no way to know how much of that is actually real or was "sold". But if he's turning $250k in a month, most of what I've seen is him adding 40%-50% to the price, $125k/Month is pretty good for not really doing anything but sending checks and doing paperwork. For a period of a few years literally every gun I tried to buy, if I thought about it for a day and tried to do due diligence on the seller, he already sent a check. That's when I originally started watching as I thought it was crazy how many guns I got beat out of only to see them pop up a month later for 50% more. I think there are 100 FA guns up for grabs at any time, he has 26 and if you believe the posts, he turned over that many in 2 months, so about half of what's out there, so yes, I think that's enough to move things.

I agree about an M16 and auto sear.

If you hadn't dilly dallied you could've bought a FA 'a few years ago' and enjoyed Mr. Mendiola's alleged bump in prices.

There's 234 machine guns on gunbroker right now when I did a search. How many are on the NFA boards, other gunbroker-esque websites? A lot more than the 100 you say are out there. I don't think he's netting anywhere close to 125k/month. That requires people who are aware of the market to be selling their guns to you repeatedly. Some will be ignorant, but most will take some time and do a little research and demand a price more commensurate with the market if they see it going up.

If he has stuff that automated that he can just 'do paperwork and write checks', with almost no overhead, he deserves to make that, that's some innovation there. If you think it's just sending checks and doing paperwork, I think you've never run your own business. If you did, you didn't do it very well. Putting together half a million in liquid assets is a challenge for most people. I doubt a bank would loan on endeavor like that.

If it's that simple, quit your day job, sell your stuff, take the equity out of your house, max your credit cards and do what he's doing. Capture that market share and set the price. You won't.

 

[scott5456]

I agree about an M16 and auto sear.

If you hadn't dilly dallied you could've bought a FA 'a few years ago' and enjoyed Mr. Mendiola's alleged bump in prices.

There's 234 machine guns on gunbroker right now when I did a search. How many are on the NFA boards, other gunbroker-esque websites? A lot more than the 100 you say are out there. I don't think he's netting anywhere close to 125k/month. That requires people who are aware of the market to be selling their guns to you repeatedly. Some will be ignorant, but most will take some time and do a little research and demand a price more commensurate with the market if they see it going up.

If he has stuff that automated that he can just 'do paperwork and write checks', with almost no overhead, he deserves to make that, that's some innovation there. If you think it's just sending checks and doing paperwork, I think you've never run your own business. If you did, you didn't do it very well. Putting together half a million in liquid assets is a challenge for most people. I doubt a bank would loan on endeavor like that.

If it's that simple, quit your day job, sell your stuff, take the equity out of your house, max your credit cards and do what he's doing. Capture that market share and set the price. You won't.

It's a bit shocking that you are sack riding this guy who is deceiving people just for the sake of arguing. It makes you look like a cuck.

You are lacking some business sense here, why would I enter into an already rigged game? If you are using your head a bit, you'd realize there are 52 Transferrable MG on Gun Broker that don't require a law letter or SOT to own. So yes, I think my 100 number is pretty reasonable.

Once again, I said "Sold", I have no way of know what is real and what isn't. It cold be "Sold" only to pop up again a few months later. It's difficult for me to explain it in more simple terms than that. You are getting ripped off. By your lack of understanding you seem like an easy mark who enjoys sending money to scammers. By all means, keep doing it if that's what you want. Your money.

I agree, $500k cash is a lot to have on hand, obviously he had money before NFA stuff and saw an opportunity to take advantage (This is the key point here that I've explained multiple times).

 

[Scwalker83]

If you have a 401k you might be in a rigged game.

You can get your own ffl for a lot less than an entry level FA.

I don’t know mr. mendiola or have ever conducted business with him. My beef is that you’re poo pooing a legitimate business practice that has a significant downside. It sounds like he did a good job and in doing so benefited tons of people who already own NFA items. The only NFA item I own is a Mac in 380 that I paid 6k for in 2020 and it sounds like mr. Mendiola might have made me a couple bucks.

I wish I had kept my position in apple 2007 right before they released their first iPhone. I wouldn’t need a day job. I haven’t gotten back into the market since then and have lost out a lot in theory because of it.

It takes balls to risk it on something like that. If you guess right and it pays off you earned a big pay day or you just pissed away a good bit of your life’s work.

The one thing is, there aren’t any more transferable NFA items out there. Even if you get in paying more than you think you should, you’ll probably have made money in 5 years and at worst broke even and had a toy to play with in that period of time.

Buy whatever NFA you want, stop complaining and sounding like an old dude that 9mm doesn’t cost 5 a box and it should because that’s how you remember it and kick yourself for not buying a slug of it. You’ll be just fine. It’s a toy first and foremost.

You can make more money, you can’t make more time.

 

[roostercogburn98]

I agree, $500k cash is a lot to have on hand, obviously he had money before NFA stuff and saw an opportunity to take advantage (This is the key point here that I've explained multiple times).

This dude has been in the NFA game since the mid 80s. Seems to me he saw the writing on the wall and bought up as much inventory as he could when they 86 bam was being strown about and people were realizing the end of a production era. He might have had a 50,000 dollar investment at that time and place. That is still a chunk of money for that time, but if you had leveraged everything and bought up a shit ton of available stuff you’d be sitting on a gold mine.

If I’m not mistaken, Mendiola was one of the very few in the MG game that did repairs on these limited items as well. So it’s not only sales he made money on, he made money servicing as well.

If you want to be real about price gouging. Look at EVERY individual that owns a large collection of FA/SF weapons and see how hard they complain every time someone says that MGs should be taken off the registry. They would no doubt invest time and money to keep them on the list because they would loose a metric shit ton on cash if they became legal to manufacture again. Seems people have watched these items jump 10-15% or better over the last few years and been perfectly ok with it.

As to the comment(not from you) on get an SOT and law/demo letter. Most PDs are now handling that line of equipment from within, and it is getting harder and harder to get a law letter. And from talking to a guy I know who has been in the game since the 80s here in NC, he says those are almost impossible to get anymore.

Bottom line is any large volume collector of these items is to blame for the price going up and staying up, they don’t want to lose their investment. Just my .02 cents.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

If they cost more than you want to spend, don't buy them. If you owned one before, you probably made a bit of money. Sounds sort of like the stock market to me. Market will determine the price. There are other resources to check FA prices, like gunbroker etc. CEO bonuses are pre-negotiated usually.

I'm not implying there isn't some wrong doing on behalf of the above NFA dealer as an individual. There nothing wrong with your LGS marking stuff up 50% percent, it's not dishonest either. Dishonesty requires deception. I didn't like paying $1000 per 8lbs of H1000 a year two ago. But it was what it cost to play the game I wanted to play.

Regarding gouging in general, if there is such a thing as gouging, it probably alleviates shortages far more rapidly than the alternative, price controls. People need incentives to take risks, whether it's bringing resources to a disaster zone, or adding shifts, new equipment and buildings etc. Usually that incentive is in the form of a possibility of monetary rewards.

Luckily there is someone with brains in this thread. Nice post.

 

[Scwalker83]

The government is to blame for making silly rules that create artificial shortages. Not people playing by those rules.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Anytime someone uses the term price gouging, it's safe to assume they are a moron. People who are to scared to assume risks always blame those who do.

 

[E. Bryant]

The machine gun market is ripe for exploitation - there is a (relatively) amount of inventory that is on the market at any given time, so it wouldn't take much for one or two well-capitalized individuals to push up the prices. It will eventually normalize, but when you're talking about several months to complete a transaction, it'll take time.

You can become a 07/02 and buy a couple no-letter posties for significantly less time and money, if your local jurisdiction allows.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Anytime someone uses the term price gouging, it's safe to assume they are a moron. People who are to scared to assume risks always blame those who do.

It’s a very real practice. Free market mentality or not. Only a moron would say it’s not real

 

[Scwalker83]

It’s a very real practice. Free market mentality or not. Only a moron would say it’s not real

This is what Walther Williams, a brilliant man, says about price gouging.

'While it's difficult to get beyond emotions, the fact is that consumers are not forced to buy products for the higher (gouged) price. If they pay, it is likely because they see themselves as being better off acquiring the good than the alternative - keeping their money in their pocket. Higher prices charged have a couple of unappreciated benefits. First, they get people to economize on the use of the good whose price has risen. That is higher prices reduce demand and encourage conservation. That helps with the disaster.
With higher prices, profit-seeking suppliers know that they can make more money by bringing additional quantities of the goods to the market. This increases the supply of goods, which helps to drive prices back down. Anti-price gouging laws disrupt these two very important functions of the marketplace and enhance and prolong a disaster. In other words, in a disaster, we want people to economize their use of goods and services and we want suppliers of these goods and services to produce more. Rising prices encourage these actions. Anti-price gouging laws stymie those incentives and create the pretense that a disaster does not exist.
Some people might reluctantly agree that allowing prices to rise during a disaster helps allocate resources. But they'll complain that's not the intention of greedy sellers who are out to profit. I say, so what? It's not sellers' intentions that count but what their actions accomplish that's important — namely, getting people to conserve more and suppliers to produce more.
Many of the problems associated with a disaster would be eliminated if people's buying behavior were the same as it was before the disaster. To get people to behave nicely and consider their neighbors is the ultimate challenge. I think rising prices are the best and most dependable way to get people to be considerate of their fellow man.'

from - https://www.nwfdailynews.com/story/...s-its-not-gouging-its-free-market/1404506007/

RIP Walter Williams.

 

[roostercogburn98]

This is what Walther Williams, a brilliant man, says about price gouging.

'While it's difficult to get beyond emotions, the fact is that consumers are not forced to buy products for the higher (gouged) price. If they pay, it is likely because they see themselves as being better off acquiring the good than the alternative - keeping their money in their pocket. Higher prices charged have a couple of unappreciated benefits. First, they get people to economize on the use of the good whose price has risen. That is higher prices reduce demand and encourage conservation. That helps with the disaster.
With higher prices, profit-seeking suppliers know that they can make more money by bringing additional quantities of the goods to the market. This increases the supply of goods, which helps to drive prices back down. Anti-price gouging laws disrupt these two very important functions of the marketplace and enhance and prolong a disaster. In other words, in a disaster, we want people to economize their use of goods and services and we want suppliers of these goods and services to produce more. Rising prices encourage these actions. Anti-price gouging laws stymie those incentives and create the pretense that a disaster does not exist.
Some people might reluctantly agree that allowing prices to rise during a disaster helps allocate resources. But they'll complain that's not the intention of greedy sellers who are out to profit. I say, so what? It's not sellers' intentions that count but what their actions accomplish that's important — namely, getting people to conserve more and suppliers to produce more.
Many of the problems associated with a disaster would be eliminated if people's buying behavior were the same as it was before the disaster. To get people to behave nicely and consider their neighbors is the ultimate challenge. I think rising prices are the best and most dependable way to get people to be considerate of their fellow man.'

from - https://www.nwfdailynews.com/story/...s-its-not-gouging-its-free-market/1404506007/

RIP Walter Williams.

Price gouging will remain a real thing until people stop buying something at an elevated price unless it is life or death.

Manufacturers will only sit on product so long before they dump it to prevent a massive loss, or have no further place today store it economically

 

[Scwalker83]

Price gouging is just market fluctuations. It's either worth it or not worth it. Bold to think you're the arbiter of what a fair price is.

Price gouging will remain a real thing until people stop buying something at an elevated price unless it is life or death.

Manufacturers will only sit on product so long before they dump it to prevent a massive loss, or have no further place today store it economically

 

[roostercogburn98]

Bold to think you're the arbiter of what a fair price is.

Price gouging and “fair price” are not even related.

Supply and demand drive the market and fluctuations. Supply is set by the seller/manufacturer/owner. Demand is set by the buyer. The seller is always responsible for price increases. Just depends on how far up the chain you want to go to see who is the one charging the higher price for what you need to have a complete product.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Price gouging will remain a real thing until people stop buying something at an elevated price unless it is life or death.

Manufacturers will only sit on product so long before they dump it to prevent a massive loss, or have no further place today store it economically

No, its not and its a sign that someone has zero understanding of basic economics.

Price fixing by cartels or manufactures with or without the assistance of the government; I will agree harms the market.

However, elastic pricing that seeks an equilibrium between supply and demand is the Fastest, fairest and most deserving way to serve the market. It brings the greatest benefit to all parties.

This is something I expect an 10 year old to understand. Grown ass men who think like children and cannot grasp these concepts is pathetic.

Since words seem confusing, here is a picture with colors:

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Price gouging is just market fluctuations. It's either worth it or not worth it. Bold to think you're the arbiter of what a fair price is.

Its always the arrogance that gives these people away.

They think they are entitled to someone elses work, blood and sweat on THEIR terms.

They did not assume any risk

They did not hedge or prepare.

Its disgusting and pathetic. I actually enjoy watching these types suffer.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Price gouging will remain a real thing until people stop buying something at an elevated price unless it is life or death.

Manufacturers will only sit on product so long before they dump it to prevent a massive loss, or have no further place today store it economically

Are people selling stocks or gold or oil or pork bellies also price gouging?

 

[roostercogburn98]

No, its not and its a sign that someone has zero understanding of basic economics.

Price fixing by cartels or manufactures with or without the assistance of the government; I will agree harms the market.

However, elastic pricing that seeks an equilibrium between supply and demand is the Fastest, fairest and most deserving way to serve the market. It brings the greatest benefit to all parties.

This is something I expect an 10 year old to understand. Grown ass men who think like children and cannot grasp these concepts is pathetic.

Since words seem confusing, here is a picture with colors:
View attachment 8020705

I’m surprised so many states have laws against it, since it doesn’t exist.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

I’m surprised so many states have laws against it, since it doesn’t exist.

The same states that elected the likes of Biden, Peloski, Clinton, Fetterman & AOC.

Do we really need to dive into state laws to prove how fucking stupid, hypocritical and non-nonsensical many are?

Just because a large portion of the population is just as ignorant and stupid, does not make something right or wrong.

 

[roostercogburn98]

The same states that elected the likes of Biden, Peloski, Clinton, Fetterman & AOC.

Do we really need to dive into state laws to prove how fucking stupid, hypocritical and non-nonsensical many are?

Just because a large portion of the population is just as ignorant and stupid, does not make something right or wrong.

Might want to double check your facts. There are 34 states with such laws right now

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Might want to double check your facts. There are 34 states with such laws right now View attachment 8020710

And there are 34 states run by low IQ morons who pander to the masses.

I am sure shenqua and marco with sub 80 IQ understand both macro and micro economics to the level where they don't want to spend $5 for a bottle water, even if they are dying of thirst. They are too fucking stupid to understand that without price elasticity, the store will be sold out to hoarders and the products will be concentrated with a few instead of everyone having equal access to it. They are more likely to die of thirst with "price gouging" laws on the books. There is zero incentive to increase supply, such as bringing down a tractor trailer full of water to a hurricane site. They both vote. They are both fucking retarded, like some of the people in this thread.

Again, just because there is a law, doesn't make it right.

The irony this needs to be posted on a gun forum, is astounding.

 

[E. Bryant]

I like how we're arguing about the existence of price fixing using abstract constructs while completely ignoring the fact that the NFA market is largely illiquid due to extreme regulation causing supply constraints and friction.

If manufacturers were allowed to build as many transferables as they wished, then it'd be impossible to engage in price fixing. But that's obviously not allowed, and the artificially limited number of items in circulation makes it quite easy to swing the market. Walt Williams wouldn't give his standard textbook answer if one spent a mere 5-10 minutes explaining the impact of NFA '34 and its ridiculous interpretation.

 

[nhdeadhead]

So I found a mac 10/45 w/ an additional lage IRM 10/15 upper… anyone have any experience with these? Seems like a cool option to have a few different calibers to shoot. It comes in around 15k with shipping and tax stamp. Does that seem appropriately priced? I’m also wondering how the .45 sounds suppressed out of that thing which also got me wondering if you could put a 300blk barrel in the lage? Is it basically an AR upper with interchangeable parts ( Barrels, hand guard, gas block ) ?
Also, are the mac’s select fire or just straight full? Does round count play a big role in the barrels life? I’d have to assume since it’s mfd in 76’ it’s probably got a fair amount of rounds through it…. are replacement parts somewhat available for these or is that not really a concern for the mac platform?

And since I can’t seem to find one to evaluate prices, what’s the going rate for a DIAS for an AR platform?

Also, would the mac be 2 stamps (sbr/mg) or does it just require 1 stamp?

 

[Elnino31]

The max 10/15 is solid and makes the Mac a stupid value in todays market.
They come with an adjustable gas block, so you can tune them to your round or with/without a can

It uses a standard AR barrels, but some of them use the buffer plates that all macs use, there’s a different model that requires you to punch a hole in the back of the lower (the actual registered MG). That system uses a buffer tube and I would ask if that was done. Unless you don’t care.

The macs are single fire or MG, but you can replace the selector with a straight pin that makes it Full only. True selector is a fail point eventually, so you can always buy more of the selectors. They are dirt cheap, but it it goes, it will default to FA and unless you’re looking at it regularly it could be unexpected

If you get a Mac, you should be running Lage uppers. I would never run the original upper. And the barrels will be the cheapest part of the experience

MG trumps the SBR, so it doesn’t matter the barrel length. One stamp.

ETA: you’re going to want to factor in 500 - 1000 in spare parts. There’s no telling how long you’ll be able to buy parts for them. Right now they are available and reasonably cheap

 

[jrhtx]

So if the guy that use to walk the guns shows with 20-30 registered HK sears as a necklace that he bought for $100 ea and decided to sell them for $30K ea, is that price gouging?
What about the dealer that bought all the remaining SWD registered guns and hauled them back to NH in a tractor trailer and sold them in lots of 5, 10, 15 20+ and made maybe $1K each, is that price gouging? He sold those in a matter of months.
Or when Vector bought something like 1,000+ registered UZI receivers from the Group auction, they made $2K, $3K+ depending when you bought until they ran out.
A lot of dealers tie up a lot of cash in inventory. Depending on their cash flow they may negotiate prices, or not. Much depends on what it is. MP5's no, M60's no. At one time you could hardly give an M2 away. Prices are up now. Surplus ammo dried up and parts dry up for the classics or belt feed's and that affected prices for a long time.

There are also "several" dealers/manufactures and former dealers/manufactures sitting on huge piles of transferable's from their pre '68 days. Those guys are getting up there in age so a pile of guns could hit the market. Will their heirs know what to do with them or will they be sold off the open market. Will that be price gouging when they have pennies in much of that inventory?

A local 07/02, actually2, who had been in business for years/decades passed suddenly. I know they had large quantities of transferables (100+ ea). None of those guns hit the open market. Someone with deep pockets bought everything. Not saying the same person bought both, just people with money) and the family wanted it to go away.

As far as getting a 07/02, you may want to rethink that. ATF is calling most PD's to see why then need a demo letter for XXXX. Several dealers and officers/chiefs have been busted over the years for screwing around with post guns. One chief was just busted in the midwest in the last few weeks. The times of getting letters and transferring M2's, M134's, MG42/34's, etc are long gone. It won't be long before the "no letter" post guns goes away. I'll leave it at that, AFT won't keep letting that go on.

The market dictates the price. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Goes for MG's, AR's, precision rifles, car's, houses, land, etc.
And I don't know Ruben, and have never done business with him.