Rifle Scopes TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

[kfcamerica]

Just talked with a person at Horus and they have a power point explanation of the TReMoR 2 reticle. They said they will put it up on their website soon but you can have it emailed to you if you contact them.

Their phone number is 650.588.8862

 

[TXBodean]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kfcamerica</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just talked with a person at Horus and they have a power point explanation of the TReMoR 2 reticle. They said they will put it up on their website soon but you can have it emailed to you if you contact them.

Their phone number is 650.588.8862
</div></div>

Tis True. I spoke with Karl at HorusVision and he forwarded me a draft copy of the PowerPoint. Very good information presented well. Should be ready for Prime Time soon.

 

[pdd614]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

Power point, just to explain the reticle huh? I'll pass. Who, in there right mind, would mix match a mil reticle and some random ballistic holdovers? IMHO, those guys over at horus are moving in the wrong direction.

 

[gits]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pdd614</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Power point, just to explain the reticle huh? I'll pass. Who, in there right mind, would mix match a mil reticle and some random ballistic holdovers? IMHO, those guys over at horus are moving in the wrong direction. </div></div>

Horus vision isn't marketed towards the general civilian populace. You can say what you want about it, but it is being picked up (horus reticles) within the military sniper community.

 

[pdd614]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gits</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pdd614</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Power point, just to explain the reticle huh? I'll pass. Who, in there right mind, would mix match a mil reticle and some random ballistic holdovers? IMHO, those guys over at horus are moving in the wrong direction. </div></div>

Horus vision isn't marketed towards the general civilian populace. You can say what you want about it, but it is being picked up within the military sniper community. </div></div>

I believe "marketed" is the key word to the above statement.

Give me a reticle with easily identifiable mil and half mil marks on the vertical and horizontal plane, and forget all the other ballistic hold over garbage.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gits</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pdd614</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Power point, just to explain the reticle huh? I'll pass. Who, in there right mind, would mix match a mil reticle and some random ballistic holdovers? IMHO, those guys over at horus are moving in the wrong direction. </div></div>

Horus vision isn't marketed towards the general civilian populace. You can say what you want about it, but it is being picked up within the military sniper community.</div></div>

Not naturally and the Horus was intended for civilians, it was designed for Hunting and was around stagnant long before it was used by the military.

It's Sales and Lobbying not because it is better... hype within the community to the right people and even they are beginning to recognize how overly complex.

This was designed because the Owner wanted to Hunt and never practiced shooting so it was easy to just too hold.

This idea that just because the military is using it, makes it special is bs, what was the military saying between 2000 and 2006 --- No thanks, get a different sales man in and all of the sudden it is peanut butter and jelly

Civilians when initially marketed to it laughed and passed...

 

[pdd614]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

The next big reticle is here. The ballistic-super-mil-2000

Expect a lengthy powerpoint presentation in a few short years for a complete explanation.

 

[slowkota]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pdd614</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The next big reticle is here. The ballistic-super-mil-2000

Expect a lengthy powerpoint presentation in a few short years for a complete explanation. </div></div>

Hahahahaha!!!

 

[rifleman700]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

How does using a reticle make you any less a rifleman than using a knob??? Does it take a man to dial a turret?

 

[Lowlight]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rifleman700</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> How does using a reticle make you any less a rifleman than using a knob??? Does it take a man to dial a turret? </div></div>

Go shoot an F Class Match in Raton with just your Reticle and then report back your results to the group ... that should tell the tale pretty quickly.

Using the reticle is faster, but designed for larger targets within a specific distance, the fact some can get good using it beyond the speed and beyond the distance doesn't change the facts that the most accurate part of the scope's FOV is the center, and that our eye is drawn to the center and that we are more consistent quartering the reticle center than trying to determine degrees off center, but then again, your results may vary.

Minute of Man within 600 yards, your personal danger space, the reticle is a good choice, otherwise, like I suggested, go shoot a match that is based on accuracy and not speed and see what happens.

 

[rifleman700]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rifleman700</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> How does using a reticle make you any less a rifleman than using a knob??? Does it take a man to dial a turret? </div></div>

Go shoot an F Class Match in Raton with just your Reticle and then report back your results to the group ... that should tell the tale pretty quickly.

Using the reticle is faster, but designed for larger targets within a specific distance, the fact some can get good using it beyond the speed and beyond the distance doesn't change the facts that the most accurate part of the scope's FOV is the center, and that our eye is drawn to the center and that we are more consistent quartering the reticle center than trying to determine degrees off center, but then again, your results may vary.

Minute of Man within 600 yards, your personal danger space, the reticle is a good choice, otherwise, like I suggested, go shoot a match that is based on accuracy and not speed and see what happens. </div></div>

I actually ordered and I am waiting for a MK 6 with the tremor for a 308 ( 20" 5R ) specifically for the sporting rifle match at Raton. Currently using a variety of different reticles / scopes - Holland 24 MOA, NF NP-R1 and various mildots and still have not found the perfect one. I mostly do a combination of hold and dial but that is far from perfect. Tried a H58 on a horus scope, hated the scope but like the reticle so I decided to try the tremor on a recommendation. Time will tell. Now if they would just ship it.

 

[Mohawk3a]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

If you like it use it. If it works for you rock on. There is no one rifle and one scope that is perfect for everyone.

 

[Guy Montag]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veteran Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you like it use it. If it works for you rock on. </div></div>

^^^^
This

 

[Onemoretime]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

I had the TreMor in a Bushnell HDMR. Hated it.

I bought the Magpul DVD because someone said they covered using the TreMor in it.... Still retarded after wasting money on the DVD. Sold it and have G2 reticle now.

 

[leadbullet]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

the horus feels like aiming through a screen door, I'll pass as I don't have to be that quick.

 

[Victory]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pdd614</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The next big reticle is here. The ballistic-super-mil-2000

Expect a lengthy powerpoint presentation in a few short years for a complete explanation. </div></div>

Now that is a reticle I can get behind. Perfectly designed and should be a game changer in the reticle world. Kudos to you Sir.

 

[njnicky]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

my lord thats busy

 

[Eric B.]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

Well, I have a Burris Mil Dot Black Diamond scope on my .300 Win. mag. and I'll take the H 59 reticle any day for long distance groundhog hunting.

Holding for windage has always been a "beatch" for me and the H 59 and a Kestrel 4500 W/ Horus ballistics both get my vote, along with my Bushy Fusion 10 X 42 LRF binos.

Range it, enter range into Horus/Kestrel and get a solution. Minute-of-groundhog is close enuf.

 

[scubadds]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

I feel like I am holding a big cup-of-koolaid and bought to take a big gulp....I was planning on a tremor2 scope.
But haven't been behind one yet.
Analysis paralysis....

 

[XTR]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

What I think is funny is that as long as the Tremor has been on the market and they still haven't put out a legitimate set of "how to use it" instructions. Again my opinion, but the fact that you really need instructions should be an indicator that maybe it's not the scope for me.

For hunting I'll take a Swaro with a BRX or a BRH every day. You get a legitimate set of mil based hold over points, really good glass, and save at least 10 oz over any "tactical" scope out there.

For shooting F class, I'll use my NF NP-2DD (how do you not like something with a double D) till I convince myself that I can no longer live w/o a March.

 

[Virgil072]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

I would go out on a limb and say the right people are getting the right training for it's use. I don't believe for a second it was developed with the normal shooter, or F Class shooter (unless F stands for Face Shooting) in mind.

 

[pdd614]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Virgil072</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would go out on a limb and say the right people are getting the right training for it's use. I don't believe for a second it was developed with the normal shooter, or F Class shooter (unless F stands for Face Shooting) in mind. </div></div>

I can see the training going something like this.

"Please pay no attention to the random dots and hash marks below the bottom half of the reticle. You would be better suited to just use the half and whole mil marks until we get the powerpoint presentation done that explains all this nonsense. Some salesman pushed this bs reticle on us, and unfortunately its all we have to work with right now."

 

[Lowlight]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Virgil072</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would go out on a limb and say the right people are getting the right training for it's use. I don't believe for a second it was developed with the normal shooter, or F Class shooter (unless F stands for Face Shooting) in mind. </div></div>

What's even more interesting is, the Horus / TreMor was developed by people with no military experience, yet pushed on the military as if not using it made you some how lacking.

Wait until the Area of Operations changes, say the Philippines or some place equally dense, maybe South America and see how well it works in thick foliage. It's great today when you are in a desert mountainous region where you can see dust fly from misses, but once you move into a place that reticle gets lost, they will be pitching you on the next latest and greatest. There is a reason why it's not demonstrated in places with a vegetation, even thick grass around the target, cause take away that puff of dirt and it just becomes a busy ass reticle just like every single person's first impression tells them it is.

if you have to be sold, shown and instructed over the course of days, that right there tells you something is not right. We are drawn to the center of a scope, to the intersection of the crosshairs and we are most accurate when quartering a target... anything short of that is all about the hype, and hope they can persuade you otherwise.

 

[Virgil072]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

Lowlight, we were shown and instructed over several days in USASS on the mildot and TMR, so I'm not really seeing the point of your argument. You can also loose a shot just as easily in the desert or in an urban environment as you can in a wooded area, this is why we have a spotter. I just take issue with people that complain it's do busy or to hard to learn. It's not, but if it doesn't fit your needs then don't whine about it. Not to say you can't be just as effective with mil-dot's or a TMR-like mil stadia. They have been the mainstay of Snipers the world over since modern Sniper weapon systems evolved.

The formula's developed by that same group of non-mil people are applicable regardless of your choice of glass, so long as it is MIL based (I'm sure, if there was a need, you could build MOA based math as well). A lot of what the military teach's (specifically speaking from the Big Army side of things) would have kept us humping ageing weapon/optical systems for the foreseeable future. Hell, those non-mil folks managed to shorten a previously calculator/paper/pencil formula for wind down to mental math while the military is still trying to shove a Mil/MOA scope and the MIL/MOA math down your throat when there is a better way to skin that cat. We are our own worst enemy when it comes to adhering to our own doctrine and dogma like it has some religious significance. Your right about our eye being drawn to the center of the scope, but I don't really find it that difficult to scan with an H58 and move to the necessary mil hold when needed. Its faster then dialing, that can't be disputed. Night time presents a whole new realm of issues with regard to messing with dials. While I like the fact I can dial and leave it alone if I so choose at my chosen distance, adding on 5, 10, 15 mil increments is a snap if I need more mag or don't want to be holding at the bottom rim of my scope with near indistinguishable mess of lines at a lower magnification to get 10+ mil's on the recital.

I'll give you the Tremor is a bit busy, but part of that takes a bit of understanding of the Acc. First formula's. Once you have a grasp of how those interplay, its pretty easy. Acc. First and Horus Vision may not be a veteran owned company, but that does not mean they do not work very closely developing and testing optics, ammunition, weapon systems, ballistic formula's, and techniques requested BY the military.

 

[Playerz1337]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

If they start putting Horus reticles in the $300 SWFA scopes, then I'm sold.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Virgil072</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lowlight, we were shown and instructed over several days in USASS on the mildot and TMR, so I'm not really seeing the point of your argument. You can also loose a shot just as easily in the desert or in an urban environment as you can in a wooded area, this is why we have a spotter. I just take issue with people that complain it's do busy or to hard to learn. It's not, but if it doesn't fit your needs then don't whine about it. Not to say you can't be just as effective with mil-dot's or a TMR-like mil stadia. They have been the mainstay of Snipers the world over since modern Sniper weapon systems evolved.

The formula's developed by that same group of non-mil people are applicable regardless of your choice of glass, so long as it is MIL based (I'm sure, if there was a need, you could build MOA based math as well). A lot of what the military teach's (specifically speaking from the Big Army side of things) would have kept us humping ageing weapon/optical systems for the foreseeable future. Hell, those non-mil folks managed to shorten a previously calculator/paper/pencil formula for wind down to mental math while the military is still trying to shove a Mil/MOA scope and the MIL/MOA math down your throat when there is a better way to skin that cat. We are our own worst enemy when it comes to adhering to our own doctrine and dogma like it has some religious significance. Your right about our eye being drawn to the center of the scope, but I don't really find it that difficult to scan with an H58 and move to the necessary mil hold when needed. Its faster then dialing, that can't be disputed. Night time presents a whole new realm of issues with regard to messing with dials. While I like the fact I can dial and leave it alone if I so choose at my chosen distance, adding on 5, 10, 15 mil increments is a snap if I need more mag or don't want to be holding at the bottom rim of my scope with near indistinguishable mess of lines at a lower magnification to get 10+ mil's on the recital.

I'll give you the Tremor is a bit busy, but part of that takes a bit of understanding of the Acc. First formula's. Once you have a grasp of how those interplay, its pretty easy. Acc. First and Horus Vision may not be a veteran owned company, but that does not mean they do not work very closely developing and testing optics, ammunition, weapon systems, ballistic formula's, and techniques requested BY the military.</div></div>

Dude, please I was playing this game before Accuracy 1st existed, and was there the day he was introduced to the reticle... the formulas are just off shoots of the Horus math used in the programs and not based on anything that wasn't out there years before either existed.

I shoot at night and own night vision, taught classes on NV, and shooting and know this stuff cold. So whatever class you think you took that gave you an insight, understand I was doing it longer and with more and less... as I was military taught before instructing myself.

The military is inbred and had always been, as well it likes to fight the last war, which is why... I said you'll see the next reticle pushed when the AO changes. You can easily be just as effective with a few mils dialed on before you left the door using a Mil Dot reticle with less confusion and less training. Believe me, I can just as fast if not faster than guys with a Horus of any kind using a P4 / MLR reticle.

There was effective sniping before Horus and before Accuracy 1st, the fact they choose to invest money and feed the decision makers is the only difference between today and yesterday.

 

[Virgil072]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

Lowlight, we come from similar backgrounds then, at least on the military side of the house. I however, was never lucky enough to instruct beyond the men I worked with. I never said there wasn't effective sniper before Horus, and there wouldn't be without it. Hiya proved this without a doubt that its the Indian, not the arrow (that and ski's and a submachine gun). I was just making the point that mildots and TMR/P4/MLR can take just as much time to teach and explain as anything else. Mildots can take even longer to get a knack for some. Once the dude being instructed understands a mil is a mil, all of the mil-based stuff becomes accessible. Especially with being stuck on Mil-dots with MOA adjustments, its easy to see the superiority of just the Mil/Mil combo (USMC figured that out with a quickness, and have better glass to show for it). Its Not hard to convert back and forth, but its one more unneeded mental exercise.

I would also think your not giving enough credit to the .mil guys (SOF or otherwise) who have evaluated these systems and found them superior to what they have already used, at least in their current AO's and for their current applications. If it works for what they need it for, rock on.

I've found sniper's by trade are notoriously individual when it comes to likes/dislikes. What I like and find effective is vastly different from what a dude next to me might. I preferred not having to mess with my dials at night on the M110's and kept my turrets velcroed up with them set up as a poor man's horse. Frankly I was amazed Leupold took this long to even put in zero stop. Shooter's preference.

 

[Matt in Virginia]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You can easily be just as effective with a few mils dialed on before you left the door using a Mil Dot reticle with less confusion and less training. Believe me, I can just as fast if not faster than guys with a Horus of any kind using a P4 / MLR reticle.
</div></div>

fwiw,
Concur.

Regards, Matt Garrett
757-581-6270

 

[Lowlight]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would also think your not giving enough credit to the .mil guys (SOF or otherwise) who have evaluated these systems and found them superior to what they have already used, at least in their current AO's and for their current applications. If it works for what they need it for, rock on.</div></div>

You'd be surprised what once fans in this community are saying now the shine has worn off, as well don't underestimate what a good salesman can do. Especially when bearing gifts, a free OBR goes a long way.

 

[pdd614]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Virgil072</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lowlight, we come from similar backgrounds then, at least on the military side of the house. I however, was never lucky enough to instruct beyond the men I worked with. I never said there wasn't effective sniper before Horus, and there wouldn't be without it. Hiya proved this without a doubt that its the Indian, not the arrow (that and ski's and a submachine gun). I was just making the point that mildots and TMR/P4/MLR can take just as much time to teach and explain as anything else. Mildots can take even longer to get a knack for some. <span style="text-decoration: underline">Once the dude being instructed understands a mil is a mil, all of the mil-based stuff becomes accessible. Especially with being stuck on Mil-dots with MOA adjustments, its easy to see the superiority of just the Mil/Mil combo (USMC figured that out with a quickness, and have better glass to show for it). Its Not hard to convert back and forth, but its one more unneeded mental exercise. </span>

I would also think your not giving enough credit to the .mil guys (SOF or otherwise) who have evaluated these systems and found them superior to what they have already used, at least in their current AO's and for their current applications. If it works for what they need it for, rock on.

I've found sniper's by trade are notoriously individual when it comes to likes/dislikes. What I like and find effective is vastly different from what a dude next to me might. I preferred not having to mess with my dials at night on the M110's and kept my turrets velcroed up with them set up as a poor man's horse. Frankly I was amazed Leupold took this long to even put in zero stop. Shooter's preference. </div></div>

You said it hear yourself. Mil/mil is very easy after you understand what you are working with. It's not the mil/mil portion of the reticle that is so awful. It's when you mix the mil hash marks with all that other ballistic drop garbage. This reticle truly is pure garbage. As I said before, Horus is headed in the wrong direction with these BS reticles.

 

[Massoud]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

From the SOF side, the Horus stuff was not universally well received. It did have powerful proponents which was enough to get it in.

Lowlight knows what he's talking about, he has trained SOF, he knows everyone in the industry, etc. You might think this forum is full of civilian posers but I can assure you it's got plenty of SOF and former SOF. Hell one of the founders of SOTIC is on here (Rick) along with at least three other SOTIC instructors and I can tell you that they're not singing the Horus praises, nor am I. That's not to say the Horus system is awful, some really like it and use it well.

Justin

 

[Guy Montag]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Massoud</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> That's not to say the Horus system is awful, some really like it and use it well. </div></div>

I've read and understand the criticisms of the reticle, and know Lowlight is a lot more informed than I'll ever be, but I can't understand why there's so much resistance to this reticle CHOICE. It's not for me, but some guys do like it. Isn't that reason enough? TReMoR haters are a hardcore bunch, that much I do know!

 

[Virgil072]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

Lowlight, got it. Id be interested to hear what issues people have with the h58 and Horus offline. I don't dig the Tremor2 personally and Im not calling someone ill-informed or a poser if thats how I came across. I would be curious as to how much the ill-will towards its introduction was due to shady business or a push back from those holding to aged techniques. Probably a combination of both.

Pdd416- the lack of ballistic dots and what not are part of the reason I like the h58/59 over the tremors.

 

[Victory]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

Would love to hear some spotter shooter dialogue with this reticle for reengagements.

Spotter ready
Shooter ready
Send it

boom

Line 6, count 1 2 3 4 5 dots left.

Shooter attempts to count his dots on line 6 because there are so many dots.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

If the objective was to create a dedicated DM system, for a line unit dedicated marksman, you'd get much less push back. If you said, this was made for a 16" 308 to give the DM speed and accuracy to 600m effectively and beyond potentially, ok I buy that. But the sales pick to 1k and beyond in a true sniper roll not so much and where the problem for me lies.

Gosh,I remember being introduced to Horus at Shot by John Sr, of USO around 2000, and handed the scope back with a head shakin look on my face. When you consider the true roll of the sniper, this isn't it. It's a DM solution, not a sniper tool.

I think a dedicated system would have made sense for a line unit shooter. If they started there and worked up, maybe, starting at the top was the wrong choice. It's a full value minute of man tool, not long range precision on partially obscured targets. Imagine a counter sniper roll on a hidden target trying to resolve the shooter with all that in the way, especially if the enemy sniper is beyond 600m. If you subscribe to the cone of lead method, you might get lucky.

 

[Massoud]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

The Tremor is my least favorite of the Horus reticles, partly because I thought the 12" drill was kind of a "gimmick" when I learned it in SOTIC several years ago and partly because the wind holds are not the way I do it. That's just my opinion.

I haven't heard really any hardcore Tremor hating but I have seen some backlash against Horus which I think comes from their marketing. In the shooting industry there's a market for a huge variety of products and some will like them and some won't. If you come out and say (figuratively) that you just invented the best thing sliced bread in an industry that's so mature and your product doesn't involve death rays or a wind reading scope, then you open yourself up.

The scenario that Victory mentioned was pretty much the impetus for my split from the Horus. On a flat range, not combat, I shanked a shot by being a mil off. It was like an 8.5 mil hold for elevation and a couple for wind and when you start getting down there and out to the side it gets confusing. And I was an early adopter, I had a scope with like an H2 in it, it was 9 years ago or something.

I certainly don't know of any shady stuff with the adoption by the Army, I do know a few people in key positions were fans. Generally I personally consider every mil procurement to involve shady stuff. I've heard crazy stories about how certain things were picked, and then there's the whole backstory about why the PSR competition is being redone.

Justin

 

[_Windrider_]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Massoud</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Generally I personally consider every mil procurement to involve shady stuff.

Justin </div></div>

yep.

 

[pdd614]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Massoud</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If you come out and say (figuratively) that you just invented the best thing sliced bread in an industry that's so mature and your product doesn't involve death rays or a wind reading scope, then you open yourself up.



Justin </div></div>

So you're saying there's a chance?

Ballistic-super-mil-2000b. Now complete with super mil ranging grids, and advanced ballistic dots.

For when the first incarnation, of the BSm2k, just wasn't good enough.

 

[Boomholzer]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

Will Horus back-track to atleast the current offering of the H-27 (with the full horizontal ticked stadia) or does it continue to expand in features?

Nothing wrong IMO with a real mil tree that doesn’t ignore the first 4 mils of elevation for windage and the vertical stadia markings above the main intersection.

Less numbers.

 

[gits]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Massoud</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From the SOF side, the Horus stuff was not universally well received. It did have powerful proponents which was enough to get it in.

Lowlight knows what he's talking about, he has trained SOF, he knows everyone in the industry, etc. You might think this forum is full of civilian posers but I can assure you it's got plenty of SOF and former SOF. Hell one of the founders of SOTIC is on here (Rick) along with at least three other SOTIC instructors and I can tell you that they're not singing the Horus praises, nor am I. That's not to say the Horus system is awful, some really like it and use it well.


Justin

</div></div>

I attended the SFSC course within the past two years. Horus is the preferred reticle of choice for what they are teaching. Hell, our new PSR scopes we received, all have Tremor 2 reticles. I'm not too fired up about the Tremor 2 since I don't have any long gun time behind it. I would have preferred the H59 over the Tremor. The only complaints received SOF side in my area is that, guys who do not keep up on precision shooting are intimidated by a the reticle thinking they have to relearn a completely new concept. All the new guys coming from SFSC and SFSC II are shooting Horus. I competed and at the USASOC Sniper Comp last year. The majority of shooters I would say 80%+ were shooting a Horus type scope. LEOs not so much. All recent graduates I have talked to within my unit like shooting Horus.

 

[Trubester88]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gits</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pdd614</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Power point, just to explain the reticle huh? I'll pass. Who, in there right mind, would mix match a mil reticle and some random ballistic holdovers? IMHO, those guys over at horus are moving in the wrong direction. </div></div>

Horus vision isn't marketed towards the general civilian populace. You can say what you want about it, but it is being picked up within the military sniper community.</div></div>

Not naturally and the Horus was intended for civilians, it was designed for Hunting and was around stagnant long before it was used by the military.

It's Sales and Lobbying not because it is better... hype within the community to the right people and even they are beginning to recognize how overly complex.

This was designed because the Owner wanted to Hunt and never practiced shooting so it was easy to just too hold.

This idea that just because the military is using it, makes it special is bs, what was the military saying between 2000 and 2006 --- No thanks, get a different sales man in and all of the sudden it is peanut butter and jelly

Civilians when initially marketed to it laughed and passed... </div></div>

Looks like you did your research!

I just watched Art of the Precision Rifle and the developer of the TREMOR 2 reticle is Todd Hodnett, president of Accuracy First and a pretty damned well respected precision rifle instructor. I watched him explain the reticle sub tensions and it is easy, and quick to shoot distant targets. His methods work, i just watched 10 hours of him teaching and he knows a crap-ton.

Do your research before you throw biased and/or uneducated guesses thinking that you are helping the forum. Cheers!

 

[-Snyper-]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

Anyone else notice, that the OP, posted this up as his 1 and only post, then bailed? I'm calling "CONSPIRACY" on this. LOL!

 

[jordan0317]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

Well played sir haha

 

[Lowlight]

Re: TReMoR 2 Reticle Manual/ Explanation

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Paradude</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gits</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pdd614</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Power point, just to explain the reticle huh? I'll pass. Who, in there right mind, would mix match a mil reticle and some random ballistic holdovers? IMHO, those guys over at horus are moving in the wrong direction. </div></div>

Horus vision isn't marketed towards the general civilian populace. You can say what you want about it, but it is being picked up within the military sniper community.</div></div>

Not naturally and the Horus was intended for civilians, it was designed for Hunting and was around stagnant long before it was used by the military.

It's Sales and Lobbying not because it is better... hype within the community to the right people and even they are beginning to recognize how overly complex.

This was designed because the Owner wanted to Hunt and never practiced shooting so it was easy to just too hold.

This idea that just because the military is using it, makes it special is bs, what was the military saying between 2000 and 2006 --- No thanks, get a different sales man in and all of the sudden it is peanut butter and jelly

Civilians when initially marketed to it laughed and passed... </div></div>

Looks like you did your research!

I just watched Art of the Precision Rifle and the developer of the TREMOR 2 reticle is Todd Hodnett, president of Accuracy First and a pretty damned well respected precision rifle instructor. I watched him explain the reticle sub tensions and it is easy, and quick to shoot distant targets. His methods work, i just watched 10 hours of him teaching and he knows a crap-ton.

Do your research before you throw biased and/or uneducated guesses thinking that you are helping the forum. Cheers!</div></div>

I Know you're not talking to me, as I knew TH before he /there was A 1st, when he was a cowboy action shooter Handlebar Doc, I know the backstories' better than most as I was there on Day One and not some Johnny Come Lately who thinks just because he said it in a video it's gospel.... I have also been there when more than one person selling a scope with the TreMor 2 in it couldn't get anyone to explain it or agree on the explanation of it, and these were guys that were on the inside. So please dont' try to tell me something, as I know far more than what you can glean from a dvd. Heck even those guys back-peddled from him in several cases, only those who have cashed in on his favors keep the flame.

Uneducated, no, I think I know exactly what i am talking about. Believe me I know were all the skeletons hide.

 

[waveslayer]

did you get a copy of the power point yet?

 

[00bullitt]

did you get a copy of the power point yet?

This isn't the powerpoint, but the following link will take you to an instruction manual for the HDMR and starting on page 14, it gives basic instruction of the T2.

http://www.horusvision.com/download/manual_horus_hdmr.pdf

 

[jp67]

Any feed back regarding using the tremor?

 

[AussieShooter]

I would also like to know some feedback regarding the tremor2 reticle at high power (25).

I purchased a S&B PM II MTC MSR and returned it as the BEAST has an extra 9 mills elevation and the glass will be on par.

I was happy with the NXS 2nd FP glass so they can only make it better.

Also I read S&B no longer had there 30 year warranty and read some where it was only 2 years compared to NFs 10 year.

My thought on the Tremor2 is dialling in the calculated elevation & windage with the ability for fast follow up shots.

I am concerned from what I have read the stadia lines at high power will obscure the target.

I am not interested in the politics or the way they do business. I want a good reticle that will do what I want.

 

[WildBill3/75]

I own a mk4 ert with the h-27 and I completely agree that it's crowded compared to a mildot/TMR. I do however believe it allows for more rapid precise follow up shots if you can spot impact misses with no scope adjustments. Needed? No...Worth the extra coin I don't think so. To crowded to use? No. If I had to do it again would I? No, I'd pocket the extra $500 and get the TMR.

 

[RangerT]

I'm coming out with a bang for my first post. I don't understand all of the hate on this forum (especially Lowlight). We are supposed to be a sniper "community". I'm a SOTIC guy and a sniper in law enforcement. I must admit, I was one of Todd and Horus' biggest skeptics until I decided to step out of my comfort zone. I've been to two of Todd's classes now and am a believer. Sure the reticle seems busy, but so does a tape measure, and no one would use a tape measure if it only had "tick" marks at every foot. Another great thing about Todd is that he doesn't waste valuable class time by running down other instructors and their choice in reticles. He simply uses the time to educate you on his. Hodnett and Litz are geniuses. Sure Todd never served in the military. Neither did John M. Browning or Ronnie Barrett, but no one seems to be running them down.