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trg bipod or lra?
- Thread starter chevytruck_83
- Start date
Had a TRG bipod when my TRG was stock, after moving to an Ashbury Chassis I had to make a switch so I went to the LRA. The LRA is very nice but I think the TRG bipod is the best going, and would consider any other option if I had a rifle to accept one.
I have had both and I think the LRA is the better bet.
The underslung behavior that benefits the shooter during the recoil cycle is on both. The legs lock up tighter and are stiffer on the LRA. The cant is lockable on the LRA and is very snug. I have a few LRA's, I don't have the TRG anymore.
I've seen a bunch of the TRG bipods fail at the welds near the trunion at the stock. I have an LRA from early 2011 that has north of 24000 rounds on it from 223 through 300WM with about 1/2 of them being 6.5 Creedmoor and 7/300WSM. The bipod is scratched up and looks "loved" but it still functions without any issue.
The underslung behavior that benefits the shooter during the recoil cycle is on both. The legs lock up tighter and are stiffer on the LRA. The cant is lockable on the LRA and is very snug. I have a few LRA's, I don't have the TRG anymore.
I've seen a bunch of the TRG bipods fail at the welds near the trunion at the stock. I have an LRA from early 2011 that has north of 24000 rounds on it from 223 through 300WM with about 1/2 of them being 6.5 Creedmoor and 7/300WSM. The bipod is scratched up and looks "loved" but it still functions without any issue.
LRA, without a doubt. When I went to EuroOptic to buy my TRG I had the intention to buy the Sako bipod. Once I saw it my shooting buddy said; "dude that looks like a M60 or BAR bipod." I just didn't like it and felt the rifle deserved better. Once Jason oulled out a short LRA I knew that was the one, and now after 4 months of using it I am about to buy a second. The wide stance, strong solid construction, etc. Just my opinion........
You guys with experience with the TRG bipod, how/can you tighten it up? Seems like the hex bolt and nut are pretty tight. I don't like how its kinda sloppy
Being a welder I can say that I am not impressed with the welds I see on the trgs. They look like fusion welds without metal added. Which is easier and sometimes looks better but lacks the strength. I kinda assumed it would still be strong enough for the application. Of course I find a trg for 350 now making my decision harder.
CT_83 - It may seem cheaper now, but think on this scenario first:
(Since this is how equipment tends to fail for me, I'm basing this off a match where I had a problem with a scope and I didn't bring a spare)
You are entered in a match - $80
Hotel for 2 nights for the match across the state - $125
Travel, food, tolls, etc costs - $200
Scope shits the bed, it costs me 2 stages outright, figured it out on the 3rd stage, used holdoffs/overs for the rest of the match. It cost me approximately 10 spots on the roster at the end of the weekend.
For the TRG, if the welds fail in a situation like that how much did that saved $100 from 6 months earlier really cost you in the long run? Plus... you still need to spend the time and/or money to fix it.
(Since this is how equipment tends to fail for me, I'm basing this off a match where I had a problem with a scope and I didn't bring a spare)
You are entered in a match - $80
Hotel for 2 nights for the match across the state - $125
Travel, food, tolls, etc costs - $200
Scope shits the bed, it costs me 2 stages outright, figured it out on the 3rd stage, used holdoffs/overs for the rest of the match. It cost me approximately 10 spots on the roster at the end of the weekend.
For the TRG, if the welds fail in a situation like that how much did that saved $100 from 6 months earlier really cost you in the long run? Plus... you still need to spend the time and/or money to fix it.
a third alternative is the new B & T bipod......
"A bipod in hand is worth two on the drawing table."
I am awaiting that release as well, but, if I wanted a bipod RIGHT NOW - I would go with the LRA.
A person could sell it for $50 less than what they paid for the LRA and 'should' have enough to buy the B&T 5H when it makes it to market.
Not that I am poo-poo-ing the 5H, but, as with many things in the firearm industry, "I'll believe it when its for sale to ME at the anticipated price."
Too often this industry is put off by the ever famous "Coupla weeks now..." I understand how the business works and the myriad of influences that come into play when bringing a new product to market.
Hence, I am most pleasantly surprised by the company that keeps it all under wraps & hush-hush and then says AVAILABLE RIGHT NOW in sufficient quantities.
~Will
I was pretty impressed with the 5H prototype they had at SHOT, I am seriously looking forward to when they have them outbound. I haven't used the TRG, but between the LRA and the 5H if I were waiting, I would go with the 5H.
I like the TRG bipod for the TRG as it was made for it! The bayonet system is cool and functional, legs that fold up nicely to the side of the stock and when used, any "slop" is gone with just a bit of loading.
William_LXIX - you make a valid point and someday I hope we pleasantly surprise you.
William_LXIX - you make a valid point and someday I hope we pleasantly surprise you.
The TRG bipod costs $450; the LRA costs $450. For $450 there shouldn't be any slop that needs to be loaded..... A $90 Harris; yes. My 28-year old Parker Hale; yes. Even for a $280 Atlas, I am not sure one should tolerate slop. Anyone load the slop in their scope mount for each shot?
I have a TRG bipod on my TRG. I really like it. I wish I could use it on my other rifles. I've used a Harris on a TRG before, the TRG bipod is a lot better. I've never used a LRA.
Jäger Wilhelm, I'll not hijack this thread any further than to say, the slop of a rifle bolt is gone once in battery. I (that means this is MY opinion) feel the same way about ANY bipod I've shot behind, my "loading" it means I am controlling the rifle and any slop in the bipod is gone.
But I'm such a poor marksman I'll always blame myself before pointing at the equipment....
But I'm such a poor marksman I'll always blame myself before pointing at the equipment....
After reading the reply as to the slop going away after loading, I came home and messed with it a bit. Honestly now that I am consciously thinking about it while I load it, it feels really good. The tension seems to be perfect once the bipod is loaded.
While I have no experience with the other bipods mentioned, I'm quite happy with the TRG pod.
PS. I just picked up the rifle last week and other than cleaning it and dry firing, I have yet to shoot it or work with it under the clock. So this is just my prelim opinion.
While I have no experience with the other bipods mentioned, I'm quite happy with the TRG pod.
PS. I just picked up the rifle last week and other than cleaning it and dry firing, I have yet to shoot it or work with it under the clock. So this is just my prelim opinion.
With respect Kasey I don't want to be argumentative, and I certainly don't want to be critical of other people's decisions. But, your analogy of a bolt is not the same; but it does help me present my thoughts. An open bolt is supposed to be sloppy. It is not loaded or locked. It is that way by design. When a bolt it closed it is locked and does not require a "load" to keep pressure on the "slop." If a bolt when locked had slop you would have some serious problems. When you put a mount on a rifle you lock it down. When you put a scope in a mount your tighten it to lock it. If you had slop you would have to but pressure on it to load it. Putting a load on something is applying pressure to make it tight. Doing that increases metal fatigue. Opening a bipod you lock the legs open. If there is play we are calling that "loading" in order to put pressure on what are loose tolerances, in order to tighten it. We created that entire practice (recently I might add) to make up for sloppy tolerances. I mean that regarding precision rifle shooting, not a belt fed MG like the M60/ MG3, etc (though they are a good example at how sloppy their bipods get after heavy use requiring even more loading as the bipods fatigue).
Look at auto engines. We change the oil less today (as compared to when I got my license in 1975) because we now have better oils and tighter tolerances in engine manufacturing. And we get what we pay for. Ask any Porsche mechanic. Tool and die maker, industrial engineer, mechanical engineer, etc. "Loading" is pressure and structural stress. Modern manufacturing and process improvement is a wonderful thing, and is the reason why I no longer have to cut and hone sears and triggers on a 1911. Or AR triggers, etc.
Fatigue (material) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia When you lean forward with the rifle for each shot you are loading and when you take pressure off the bipod you are unloading, so it is a cycle.
To each his own and that is the great thing about a free competitive market.
I am going to try some tests at the range. Loading and not loading a Harris and Parker Hale. And then somehow with the LRA. If I load it the whole rifle moves forward because there is no slop, and the cant is also locked down, so it just doesn't go anywhere.
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There has been countless threads and videos on "loading a Bipod" so obviously this discussion is without end.
My experience remains, that I've not seen a bipod where a few ounces of forward pressure removes the "slop" giving me structural control over the rifle.
My experience remains, that I've not seen a bipod where a few ounces of forward pressure removes the "slop" giving me structural control over the rifle.
After reading all of that. The Sako TRG is Designed to work the way it does, it is a very ingenious design.
Loosen your Harris/Atlas tilt knob all the way...now load the bipod...your tilt is still loose, with the loaded TRG it's not.
All other bipods have nobs, levers, springs, etc to adjust the tilt tension, and the pan tension. If you notice the TRG bipod has no knobs or levers....so how to you make it lock in place? A slight load and it LOCKS YOUR TILT, AND PAN ( it has a slight pan adjustment). It is very fast for widely spaced target to target becouse you unload it and it goes loose. You can very how loose it gets by using less load.
Your not loading it to make it less sloppy(like a cheap bipod) your loading it to lock in were you positioned it.
Ever have to adjust the tension knobs on a Harris or Atlas? What if you needed to change the tension while on the fly with the crosshairs on the target and your hand on the rear bag....that's where the TRG shines. UNLOAD Loose, move, LOAD tight, fire, UNLOAD loose, move, LOAD tight, fire...it's really fast.
The problem with the other bipods that I have in comps is if the tension knobs are really tight and I try to tilt the rifle I sometimes overshoot my point of aim and have to come back the other way. Breaking the tension and tilting smoothly is a problem with the other bipods, the TRG it goes really loose you are moving the rifle With a ON THE FLY tension, and very slight corrections can be made easily.
Here's how it works, two targets 30 degrees apart one higher than the other. Fire on first target, unload bipod swing gun towards other target fast, start slightly loading when you see the target in scope, move target to center of scope while increasing load pressure ( gun is getting harder to move) put target behind crosshairs, a little more load and everything locks, fire!
Remember guys this is and was designed as a combat bipod for fast transitions from target to target. It is not a one shot hunting bipod.
Once you get the hang of it you will realize how great it works....all without nobs/levers that add more weight and points of failure.
If your used to a Harris, and see a TRG bipod flopping around you will be like "$450 for this!", I was until I figured it out. And now it's my favorite bipod (I have 2 Harris, and 2 Atlas as well)
Also you only have to press the leg release button for the first stop all the stops you just pull out the leg ( and bypass the button) nice when you have heavy gloves on
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I have shot the LRA some and like it. I feel it is better suited for ELR than the TRG bipod. However after shooting my TRG with the factory bipod for the last 5 or 6 years I will go to my grave saying at this time it is the best bipod for "field use / sniper / tactical / precision rifle" or whatever you want to call it these days made. The ONLY problem I can see with it is that I can't use it on any other rifle.
I agree 100% with what finbox said.
I agree 100% with what finbox said.
And I agree 100% with the both of you!
The TRG bipod is the best field bipod made.... Bar none, no exceptions! People obviously mistake the looseness of the bipod as some kind of fault hence stupid and un-necessary modes like the o-ring mod. This bipod allows you to pan, cant, and tilt as necessary to engage your intended target then with a forward load secures your shooting position rock solid!
I own an LRA and I agree its nice but after using the TRG bipod I actually find the rigidity and static positioning of this bipod to be irritating. I have to undo a pod loc if I want to adjust the rifle side to side and the legs skip and hop if I pan slightly side to side. Its rock steady when set up but so is the TRG bipod and the Sako design is far more fluid and dynamic when field conditions or targets change.
My 2 cents.
finbox, from my chair the Parker Hale and similar designs do the same thing your giving the TRG credit for doing, lets call it "un-tensioned" Pan and Cant, that when loaded "go away". I suspect those that made them have profited handsomely. Now you and others can point out why they are different but the basic "loose joint" design, having a different execution but with same basic result.
However, one should consider the use and application of the bipod, will it be used 95% of the time on a range? Will it be carried into the mountains? Will it be carried into combat? Are snag points an issue? So I respectfully suggest that weight and noise might be considerations while making such decisions and depending on the requirement, consider how much time it'll be carried vs. used.
However, one should consider the use and application of the bipod, will it be used 95% of the time on a range? Will it be carried into the mountains? Will it be carried into combat? Are snag points an issue? So I respectfully suggest that weight and noise might be considerations while making such decisions and depending on the requirement, consider how much time it'll be carried vs. used.
